• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Reincarnation baffles me

Jim78

Probationary
I think about the life lessons I've learned and I wonder why myself or anyone else has to learn them in the first place? Since, in the lives between lives, we are at peace and our higher selves are more aware of where we went wrong than we could ever hope of being aware of on Earth, then why do we have to come to a place of war, disease, mortality and hunger to learn something we will know on the other side anyway? Why do we need the human experience? Are we so at peace on the other side that we can't think for ourselves? Do we need the illusion of separation from all that is so that we can form our own moral core more in line with divine law? If that's true then how can our higher selves possibly know more than the sum of our earthbound experiences? If so then how can our souls be our higher selves?

Knowing that reincarnation is real still throws up many questions for me. If we are here to evolve and learn what are we evolving into? If we're here to learn lessons then what exactly are we doing on the other side? Running around manifesting our dreams and nothing else? Why is any of this necessary?
 
i´m pretty sure we wanted and yearned to be here in the first place. here on earth you can experience things you simply can´t elsewhere. we are adventurers :) I mean humor for example -- I believe it´s a unique thing and I appreciate it very much. Good humor, fun - a good laugh. Also all these different nuances in emotions. Deep emtions like hate - mercy - love - All I read and remembered about the life in between it´s nothing like that elsewhere. So altogether sure you´ve got to evolve and after some time I can imagine everyone wants to get out of here. What´s beyond won´t be so easy to find out. In Robert Monroes book which goes very much d`accord with me he speaks of the big oneness we´re going to evolve into to become whole again. Might be. Just my 2 cents ;-)
 
I for one don't want to evolve into oneness. I'm an individualist. I don't see how I yearned to be here when I was at peace. If I was at peace why would I have a yearning? I've also learned that those in the spirit world can experience a wide range of emotions but they are at peace. They are backstage seeing the roles and the play unfolding. Very little that was on Earth matters to them in my experience except love. Since they are at peace and drawn to incarnate like moths to a flame I'm still baffled as to why anyone would need to go through this earthbound morality play to learn what is obvious already when one is in spirit. I know reincarnation is real so I'm not questioning that, but I don't know why we have to experience anything when this isn't even our 'real' lives. What's the point?
 
i´m pretty sure we wanted and yearned to be here in the first place. here on earth you can experience things you simply can´t elsewhere. we are adventurers :) I mean humor for example -- I believe it´s a unique thing and I appreciate it very much. Good humor, fun - a good laugh. Also all these different nuances in emotions. Deep emtions like hate - mercy - love - All I read and remembered about the life in between it´s nothing like that elsewhere. So altogether sure you´ve got to evolve and after some time I can imagine everyone wants to get out of here. What´s beyond won´t be so easy to find out. In Robert Monroes book which goes very much d`accord with me he speaks of the big oneness we´re going to evolve into to become whole again. Might be. Just my 2 cents ;-)

No soul in their right mind would want to experience the following:

1. War
2. Rape
3. Brutality
4. Torture / abuse
5. Emotional anguish
6. Discrimination
7. Failure
8. Loneliness.

It's ok, I'll pass. I don't think it's necessary for me to experience all of these things to gain enlightenment. In fact, I don't want to be that enlightened anyway. I just want a peaceful, easy life. Asking too much?

Jim78 asks a very legitimate question. I've been thinking about this recently too. What's the point of all this "need to experience everything" business? No soul in their right mind would want to experience losing a limb, getting disease, hunger, abuse, etc....
 
I found Seth-Roberts and Abraham-Hicks books very interesting, very thought provoking. I just googled for Abraham first book "A New Beginning I", and found a .pdf copy online. I particularly recommend browsing the second half of the book, which is a Q&A section.
 
I just don't see why we have to come here to learn lessons when we are already aware of what we should be doing when we are in spirit justin.
 
What did you find interesting about it baro san? I'm already reading a book at the moment.
 
What did you find interesting about it baro san? I'm already reading a book at the moment.
Both Seth and Abraham state that we really create our reality, everyone of us creates their own reality, and can't create anything in anybody else's reality, just influencing in a certain degree the others' thinking.

Starting from this premise, they give a different perspective, and thought provoking answers, to the questions we all ask, including the questions you raised here. It is definitely better for one to read them, and think about, by themselves than to read others' interpretations. I remember that Abraham's Q&A section is only about 50 pages.
 
No soul in their right mind would want to experience the following:

1. War
2. Rape
3. Brutality
4. Torture / abuse
5. Emotional anguish
6. Discrimination
7. Failure
8. Loneliness.

It's ok, I'll pass. I don't think it's necessary for me to experience all of these things to gain enlightenment. In fact, I don't want to be that enlightened anyway. I just want a peaceful, easy life. Asking too much?

Jim78 asks a very legitimate question. I've been thinking about this recently too. What's the point of all this "need to experience everything" business? No soul in their right mind would want to experience losing a limb, getting disease, hunger, abuse, etc....
Apparently, you must not be in your right mind. Why? Logically speaking, you are here, along with the rest of us out-of-our-right-minds souls. If you don't know why you find yourself in this world of war, rape, brutality, torture, abuse, emotional anguish, failure, loneliness, etc., you have better get to it, and find out quickly. Otherwise you will be making another visit back here, very soon. But you need to ask yourself a question before you will find your way. And finding the right answer to the question is your only way of knowing why in "hell" you are here. I use the pun of hell, because you only see yourself surrounded by hellish conditions, and have ignored the heavenly conditions; peace, charity, caresses, laughter, success, friendship, love, companionship, compassion, etc. Life here on earth is a matter of balance. Therefore it is a question of Balance. I heard it said that, "we do not know what we have until we lose it." Think about that for a good while! Are you looking for someone to tell you what you are doing here? Well, it's a miracle you are looking for, because only God knows anything 100%. And as far as I know, He is the Only ONE that can do miracles. Knock and it shall be opened...eventually. But not before you are able to answer a thousand million questions.

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?
'Cause when we stop and look around us
There is nothing that we need
In a world of persecution
That is burning in its greed
Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door?
Because the truth is hard to swallow
That's what the war of love is for
It's not the way that you say it
When you do those things to me
It's more the way that you mean it
When you tell me what will be
And when you stop and think about it
You won't believe it's true
That all the love you've been giving
Has all been meant for you

I'm looking for someone to change my life
I'm looking for a miracle in my life
And if you could see what it's done to me
To lose the love I knew
Could safely lead me through
Between the silence of the mountains
And the crashing of the sea
There lies a land I once lived in
And she's waiting there for me
But in the grey of the morning
My mind becomes confused
Between the dead and the sleeping
And the road that I must choose

I'm looking for someone to change my life
I'm looking for a miracle in my life
And if you could see what it's done to me
To lose the love I knew
Could safely lead me to
The land that I once knew

To learn as we grow old
The secrets of our soul


Don't be baffled, take a look around yourself...what do you see besides the negatives you have pointed out? But remember that the TRUTH is hard to swallow!

 
Baro san once I remembered reincarnation I realised that I had created my own reality all along. How I impacted others in my lives was a manifestation of my own self. My ego, my thinking, my judgements...everything. It actually screwed up my mind, to realise my own self is manifested for all to see. I find it really embarrassing to be honest. I still don't get why I had to learn this stuff on Earth when I would know it when I'm in spirit anyway though.
 
Baro san once I remembered reincarnation I realised that I had created my own reality all along. How I impacted others in my lives was a manifestation of my own self. My ego, my thinking, my judgements...everything. It actually screwed up my mind, to realise my own self is manifested for all to see. I find it really embarrassing to be honest. I still don't get why I had to learn this stuff on Earth when I would know it when I'm in spirit anyway though.
Our higher / inner selves incarnated on Earth, willingly, in order to improve their creative skills, as part of their evolving quest that has an infinite potential.

Once we get here, on Earth, we lose our discernment under the influence of the human society, we practically sever our connection to our higher /inner selves, and most of us end up with very little progress, if any, reason for which we reincarnate over and over an enormous number of times, most of the time experiencing unnecessary suffering.

Understanding that we continuously create our own reality, both good and bad, that we can't create others' realities, as they can't create our reality, and purposefully reopening our connection to our own higher / inner selves, is the way to reverse our incarnation wasting.
 
Hi Jim,

Maybe this will be helpful. It was an image/analogy I was given back in the days I was doing TM ala Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in the 70s:

In the old fashioned way of dying cloth, the final color doesn't fade like modern artificial colors, but the process is very slow. The plain fabric is dipped into the dye vat and while it is there it is saturated and is/becomes the same color as its surroundings, and even keeps that color when it is brought back out into the air and light to dry, for a bit. However, a lot of the dye from the vat immediately drips off and then as the cloth dries in the light what is left fades until it is no longer or only barely visible after the first dip. Then it is dipped again, dried again, dipped again, dried again, over and over again. Each time, a little bit more of the color remains in the cloth. Finally, there comes a time after innumerable repetitions of this cycle when the cloth, whether in the dye vat or in the open air and light remains the same color as the dye--unchanging and permanently colored, matching the color of the dye.

Well, I grew disillusioned with the Maharishi for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean that he didn't pick up and disseminate a lot of good stuff, stories, tales, analogies and so-forth he had received from his own teachers and others, who I think may have been far more "dyed" and "color-fast" than he was, and indeed may have retained the true color from the dye vat. As you can see, this analogy works in various ways. First, the cycle of earth life and spirit world on a macro level is a cycle between the heavenly "vat" and the harsh light of this world. (I realize that a "vat" is a bad analogy for the spirit realms, but you get the point). Second, for those who do deep meditation or have other practices to accelerate the "dyeing" process, the idea is repeated on a micro level--with little mini-dips into similar strata of consciousness instead of a visit to the celestial realms.

As to the deeper reason, it is also in the analogy. We are not really and truly what we are while in heavenly realms until we are permanently and unalterably the same while we are in the earthly realms as well. When we are within the field of influence of the "source" and as we move closer to the "source" we are like little iron filings that line up near a magnet or like the cloth in the dye vat. We are under the influence and within the aura of a vastly more powerful spirit, and we align just like the little iron filings (or, alternately, take on the same "color" of our surroundings in the vat)--while we are there. But what about when we move away? We are not truly what we can and should be until we are that always no matter what environment we enter. This is the permanent change that is taking place.

Cordially,
S&S
 
I have the exact same question Jim78. If we are already enlightened and are our higher selves in that realm that why do we have to improve by reincarnating and learning to get to the level where we already are!
 
I like the analogy S&S. Thanks to the contributors, this is an interesting discussion. ~T
 
Our higher / inner selves incarnated on Earth, willingly, in order to improve their creative skills, as part of their evolving quest that has an infinite potential.

Once we get here, on Earth, we lose our discernment under the influence of the human society, we practically sever our connection to our higher /inner selves, and most of us end up with very little progress, if any, reason for which we reincarnate over and over an enormous number of times, most of the time experiencing unnecessary suffering.

Understanding that we continuously create our own reality, both good and bad, that we can't create others' realities, as they can't create our reality, and purposefully reopening our connection to our own higher / inner selves, is the way to reverse our incarnation wasting.

Well my creative skills seem to lie in war. Why would I need to improve those skills when war isn't something that matters to a soul at peace in the afterlife?

I don't think I've progressed much. I've done the same thing for eons...but why generally have amnesia of past lives? Surely it would make more sense to remember that your here to progress? Why the ignorance?

I have realised that I create my own reality, but that places the blame squarely on my shoulders. Why am I soley responsible when for eons I knew nothing of reincarnation,not until a few years ago?
 
That's a good analogy S&S but it would also have to assume that our higher and our earth selves must arrive at some communion with one another in order to evolve. Why have both higher and lower selves present on earth and why is that important to our higher selves/ I don't see the point.
 
Hi Jim,

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll go forward based on what I think you mean. Obviously, it goes without saying that I am only repeating what I have heard that sounded sensible to me. I claim no first-hand knowledge about things. However, I have felt that Michael Newton's books had the ring of truth, though I think some things were withheld from him. My recall (as it has been awhile since I read them) is that we are never completely "absent" from the spirit realm. Returning "souls" reporting their experiences in returning to their soul group report that others who were still incarnate were also present, but apparently only semi-responsive as their attention is absorbed almost completely by the human life they are engaged in. My best analogy would be an adolescent completely involved in their cell-phone and generally oblivious to what is going on around them. However, in the case of souls, it appears that they are, for the most part REALLY locked in to what they are doing on earth, rather than merely voluntarily ignoring their surroundings to do something they would rather be doing. (There may be exceptions in terms of that LOCK, as there almost always are exceptions to everything). Likewise, there is apparently some type of real division of our energy, as we seemingly send a portion of our energy/soul/spirit to incarnate, almost acting like a remote probe that must return and be re-united to the part of us that remains in the spirit realm for us to be whole. Don't ask me to defend the proposition, I'm merely trying to give a report on what others have said.

Why is it important to our higher selves (which are actually are "real" selves) to be doing this? I think that is what my last post is about. In terms of amnesia, that is apparently something we bind ourselves to in coming here (to some degree or another). It gives us a relatively fresh start, it also keeps us from revenging ourselves on each other for what we did to each other in past lives, etc. There is enough of that anyway. But the question of our forced (or voluntary) amnesia is one of those topics that has been batted around over and over again. (It's a bit like cross-gender incarnation questions o_O). So, there's probably a dozen threads that could be reactivated if we're going to talk on that one.

Some of your angst seems to come from the fact that, to paraphrase, you "really don't want to practice war no mo'" but don't really have yourself trained temperamentally to do anything else in earth life. Hence, being here now means being in a place where you find yourself inevitably repeating a life script you no longer want to engage in, and not really knowing how to (or maybe feeling suited to) do anything else.

Cordially,
S&S
 
In my thoughts I keep coming back to this as a place (earth) to test what we have learned, to understand all aspects of it, not merely the belief, at least this is part of my excuse for not remembering like you and others seem to be able to do. I keep thinking about being back to a place where I will not experience pain, fear, anxiety, bodily needs, bodily pleasures, sickness, property maintenance, financial concerns, my current interaction with my loved ones, and my body-attached ego. And, like you wonder about the reason for it all - what part(s) of those things were primary in my current incarnation?

I have known quite a few people (probably me included) who have been raised to understand certain principles that they live by and believe in, but have no deep understanding about because they mainly have knowledge without the experience that requires the use of judgment. That does not truly express what I'm feeling - I'll try again. Learning that stealing something from someone is wrong is quite a bit different from the experience of having something stolen from you. Yet, stealing the enemy's code book might be something altogether different, and, is it a terrible thing to steal second-base?

So, with having maybe a thousand incarnations and perhaps five or six remembered as being similar, there may be some details that require further understanding.

I further think that the fact that your remembered lives seem to be similar is because there are details there for you to yet understand rather than being an characteristic of your soul.
 
Jim, Thanks for an interesting and informative thread. In regard to the warrior spirit... I have always known that I was, in spirit and actuality, a warrior. From past lives as cops and soldiers to the very same thing in this life. I've always had the ability and strength to enter fights, I have no fear. I left the army and went right to work as a police officer in a major city. I was good at my job and, like in the service, made sergeant. That title and job seems to be apart of me in a deeply spiritual and past life way... its innate. But now as an old man :eek:, and one who has retreated from civilization to find a deeper meaning, I have found the warrior spirit takes on newer meanings. It made no sense to me for the longest time, until I was on a retreat in the mountains with a guru of a teacher, and a cadre of very enlightened beings. As part of my retreat in the wilderness I saw a shaman/somatic masseuse in a one-on-one encounter. This woman had never met me or known me prior, but after a few minutes into our session she said to me, you are a warrior, I see it in your body and feel it in your spirit. She went on to say that my spirit was in transition, it was tired, it wanted to put aside the sword. She could not have been more accurate. I was tired, I was weary, I was struggling to find meaning and purpose, and much like you, I questioned the validity and purpose of life. It seemed to me, then, to be a pointless pursuit... all was frivolous. But her wisdom won me over when she said, "your spirit wants to evolve into a creative and compassionate entity, and your current pursuit in the humanities is a manifestation of that." After the session I was as confused as ever, but over the course of the week a light came on in my head, it was dim and fuzzy at first, but grew brighter with every discussion with her. I have always been an artist, a writer, a philosopher, and thinker. Academically I have honed this innate sense of being into very real and wonderful pursuits. According to that sacred woman I needed to allow those traits of creativity and compassion to manifest into the world... thus my conundrum, I would not let the warrior rest, nor create.

In the many subsequent years I have, to my personal betterment, allowed the old sergeant to rest, recognizing his spiritual age and needs. Now as a teacher, mentor, counselor, artist... I feel free. I can see hope where before there was only a battle to fight. I can see art where before it was merely commodity, I see beauty in people like never before. I adapted into a Buddhist life style, and funny thing is, in the Shambhala lineage that I follow, the warrior spirit is a profound philosophy of peaceful abidance. The warrior of sword and rifle is now a warrior of compassion and discernment. It was not easy, and everyday is a lesson. But I suppose I would tell you this, life is a journey for our spirit and being. We are here to understand that in a very human way. As we nurture our souls in this mortal life we enhance and propagate the soul to ever higher dimensions. Why? Who knows... and that is my question too. Perhaps it has to do with the state of the world, the environment, and politics. Darkness in society is reaching beyond our ability to sustain peaceful coexistence, with each other and indeed the earth. Creation needs peace warriors now more than ever. As my journey into this troubled world continues, I've never been at a deeper peace. And, as I face my final few years, I know my purpose is not "ME" my purpose is all of creation, and my duty is love and compassion. The Buddhists call this Bodhisattva, to serve others towards enlightenment. I'm not always good at it, I fail at times, but as I fail I grow.

Blessings on your journey, I'm happy you are looking.

~Tman, (fellow seeker and warrior)
 
Last edited:
Hi Tman,

Great post! I think the recent discussions in the Patton thread shed some additional light on the warrior spirit and the need for such spirits in the world--at least so long as the wolves remain. Your post may be what Jim needs right now, an idea of what comes next, and how a weary warrior may take the next step: Not rejecting a warrior past as evil and unnecessary so much as setting it gently aside for the next phase and moving on.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S. If that's true and part of us remains in the afterlife while we incarnate then why are we here in the first place? what's the point?

Perhaps amnesia make's sense. I've been downtrodden and marginalised throughout my life. I wouldn't have learnt all I've learnt if I hadn't of been. If everyone knew who I was in a past life then those experiences wouldn't have happened.

Your right. I'm lost at sea.
 
How far do we justify our actions Ken? Stealing a code book may have a positive outcome, but that's just from one point of view. My past live's are similar because I'm basically the same. I just didn't know until three years ago that I was repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.
 
I never thought of myself as a warrior Tman. Everyone else did but not me. I thought I fought because life circumstances forced me to.

I said once ( by way of Bob Dylan ) " momma put my gun's in the ground, I can't shoot them anymore. That long black cloud is coming down, I feel I'm knocking on heavens door. I surrender." The war was with myself all along. It just manifested itself in the outside world.

I am a creative soul too but a part of me still wants to be the warrior. I never got a buzz from anything as I got from confrontation. It dismays me because I want to be more peaceable.

I want to serve God. I want to be peaceable. I was always a good soldier for man but I find myself severely lacking when trying to be a soldier for God. I'm good at fighting but I'm bad at love.
 
I'm good at fighting but I'm bad at love.
Are you bad at love? Or are you bad at one (person's/religion's) theory of love?

In my experience, even those who have fought selfishly (or because they must) also can fight for the sake of love. Love isn't exclusive of warrior traits. They blend together to create a kinder form of battle, one where the opposition is given every opportunity to become a better version of themselves, one where curiosity and questioning self is allowed enough space to prevent unethical motives (or leaders) from controlling one's decisions. One where the "enemy" is as deeply understood as oneself, and the chance for empathy and communication is given priority before resorting to the healing knife that must be used to cut out a social cancer at times.
 
Well Mere Dreamer, the two women over the years who I had deep feelings for when I was even keeled resulted in my feeling like I had to fight. In both cases the fighting destroyed the feelings I had for them. War kills love in my experience.

I was confronted with the unmasked face of my enemy through my own actions and it turned out they weren't simply evil souls doing evil things. They were merely misunderstood. I stayed my hand upon realising that. I was still consumed with protecting the woman I loved though. I didn't realise or couldn't accept that I could do no more for her. It wasn't until that went pear shaped that my empathy for my enemies was completely awakened. I thought I had to win up until then, but I realised that my opponent had already been defanged. I didn't have to keep fighting for my old love. I understand my enemies as I understand myself now and now I have pity for them. They genuinely didn't understand what they were doing. I did understand what I was doing though so my conscience isn't clear. I don't feel anymore that I have the right to take on the wrongs of this world. I don't think it's up to me who should be cut out and who shouldn't.
 
Last edited:
Abuse blocks love. Manipulation blocks love. Deceit blocks love. Mistrust (whether valid or not) blocks love.

If the fighting (war) is rooted in manipulation, deceit, mistrust, or abuse on either side, then it's natural that those wounds would divide the heart's real experience of pain and separation from its desire for closeness and affection. Trying to force a close relationship out of that sort of situation creates resentment and drains the psyche. An individual has to have a deep reservoir of compassion and outside support before remaining close in the face of abuse without breaking under the strain becomes possible. It's basically a saintly quality, probably learned from lifetimes of great sacrifice, and most humans don't show up on earth with that capacity.

Respectful love allows separation instead of attempting to create closeness that is not matched from the other side. There are forms of love that reach over the distance, of course, but they are less intimate by necessity. It's basically an openness to the changes the other may make that can change the possibilities of connection. Respectful love allows the other participant to own their life and their choices instead of trying to take over, even if their choices create separation.

Sometimes "cutting out" is merely letting go and no longer attempting to control a relationship into closeness against a partner's resistance to or active contradiction of love. It can look like allowing abusers or merely those who don't want to maintain a relationship with you to go their own way until they both desire and learn how to maintain a mutual connection in their own time, instead of trying to make them learn by holding them closer than is safe.

Trying to repair some abusers (not all) with acceptance and over-compensating for their behavior can give them more opportunity to continue to practice abuse without consequence. In this case "breaking up with an abuser" is a kindness because it places them squarely within the reality of their own making. Abuse creates separation by its nature. Resisting this fact out of a desire to force them to accept love only breaks self against the hard rock of reality that they are their own person. The separation they create by their choices is made visible by allowing them to push you away.

Other times there is a direct choice between the innocent and an oppressor. I read the story of a monk who was in a boat with refugees, escaping from invaders who intended to murder them all. They encountered an invader out on the water and the monk killed him, even though it went against all his beliefs about never killing another living being. But he recognized that if he did not, the deaths of the unarmed refugees would be on his hands, instead. This plays out in a variety of ways, including protecting victims from an oppressive system. Sometimes it means a literal battle. Sometimes it means speaking up for those who have no voice.

What kind of war was started by love in your case? What were you fighting for?

Were you attempting to shape an ideal that didn't fit the reality contributed by by your partner? If so, separation was inevitable. Love can't force mutual acceptance, appreciation, respect, or trust. A loving relationship only takes shape if both partners are capable of and intentional about creating an equal, respectful, honest, aligned participation in a shared path through life.

A relationship is a third element in symbiosis with both participants. It will always, always reflect the qualities of both partners, even those kept secret. No matter how genuine and healthy one partner may be, if the other contributes poison the relationship will sicken and eventually die.

Nobody is "bad at love" but we are all easily tricked into believing stories about love that divert our capacity for love in unhealthy directions. It's a consequence of seeing life through the limited perspective of human culture and beliefs. However, we can also learn from experience and see through the lies by watching where beliefs become obstacles and what attitudes and choices allow love to manifest in reality.

Love is a vague word, in my experience, often used for qualities that aren't realistically love. To me, it is respect, appreciation, and acceptance of the real (not potential) qualities in another's perspective and choices which, when those same attitudes are reflected back, create trust and mutual support ... even when paths diverge.
 
Last edited:
In my case Mere Dreamer, I resented that my old love had been the fulcrum of my fight. I didn't want her exposed to it. In my last remembered life I told her of my fight but she was removed from it ( she was my fiance in that life ). She didn't experience that aspect of me. In my current life she experienced the full brunt of the manipulations, the strategising, the ruthlessness, of what a man does in combat. That's because the fight was personal. It was about protecting my love. It wasn't about an ideal of nationhood or a countries border...it wasn't about religion. It was about love. I didn't realise that when one takes the war home those you love suffer. I was just trying to protect her from abuse.

The kind of war I fought wasn't on the field of battle in my current life. It would have been, if I had kept fighting. It was about a man with nothing fighting men who had everything to protect the woman I loved. It was a one man war ( I steadily became more undermanned in each successive life during my current rebellion period ). I was confronted in the end with what one man can do. I lost my fight on purpose, for the greater good. I'd gone too far. I'd done too much. I'd unmasked sociopaths and I realised any more would lead to war....so I stopped. I laid down my guns. Then I remembered reincarnation and I realised that I hadn't made such a decision ever in my existence. I had never surrendered before. That's when I remembered all the battle's. I took me a long time to reach this point. The point where I see there are no necessary evils.
 
Hi Jim,

I don't really know if all of us or part of us incarnates, I was just broadening the conceptual base a little bit. From my standpoint, I don't see how it matters very much in terms of our ongoing transformation and the process of transformation I previously outlined. The only question is whether we are fighting what is happening or cooperating in the process, and to what degree. I suppose this could also be cast in a secular light, but to me it is basically a religious question--actually THE basic religious question. From that point of view you are in a state of contrition/repentance. Unfortunately, you are locked into a pretty "down" state of mind because you don't know how to move forward from there to make real and lasting life changes that will be more life sustaining to you and lead to your transcendence of our current condition bound to the wheel of birth and repetition. (By the way, "wheel of birth" is found in the Epistle of James, though it is usually mistranslated, possibly to avoid the obvious implications).

This is the archetypal religious quest, however it may be framed and to whatever degree it is pursued. Tman has given you his insights and approach, which involve not just the exploration of other parts of his being, but an active pursuit of the path of benevolence and transcendence. Somehow I don't think you will stay in your current "static" state for too long. You seem to have always been a man of dynamism and action. I think you're just stymied because most (or all) of your action in the past has been on "the horizontal" rather than "the vertical", and involved active striving on that plane and usually against others instead of striving against the forces that are binding you here. At some point you will realize that there is nothing that will get you where you want/need to go but a complete change of direction at a complete "right angle" to what you have pursued in the past.

How completely and devotedly you follow this new path is up to you. But I think that the fact that you are on this board seeking answers is just the first part of your striving in this new direction. I believe your striving will soon be directed to finding which pathway to walk and, judging from your past, it appears that you will pursue it with vigor. Unfortunately, like all of us, you will come to the path carrying baggage from the past, which seems to have been characterized by a degree of dogged stubbornness and pride along with tremendous energy and striving, but you'll be the one to define the foes that hamper your striving, not me. You are too advanced a soul already not to know that you will find more "popping out of the woodwork" as you go along. Tman has mentioned his Buddhism and I make no secret of my Christianity (though my eschatology and soteriology are a bit off the beaten track). You will make your own decisions.

I think your questing spirit already knows that the next step involves search and then dedication to a new ideal and direction, but hesitates to take it. There is always fear of "messing up" for all of us. But I don't think there is any way you'll stay in your current morass much longer. There is just too much "action" built into your spirit/soul. Sooner or later it is going to drive you back into action. I hate to say it, but I think that if you wait too long to get started, your temperament will eventually drive you to leap precipitously into or onto some path you might not have taken otherwise. Perhaps it would be better to get the process started rather than to wait much longer?

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S. I am locked into a state of repentance. I just don't see how I could transcend with so much to be ashamed of. I also don't know how to be any other way. If I can't be who I always was and I don't know how to be any other way what am I meant to do?

I have been in the same static state for two years ( although it took me a year and a half to get there after I remembered reincarnation ). My dynamic, action orientated mindset is now poison to me. It means I loathe my every thought because they are all about finding angles and battling. I genuinely didn't realise I was binding myself here. I knew I was doing 'heroic' stuff but I was focused on winning. I thought circumstances had chosen me. It wasn't until I remembered reincarnation that I realised that I might have chosen the circumstances all along. I know I need a change of direction and I have been more peaceable and generally less stubborn these last two years, but I still think the same way even though my perspective has completely altered.

I am here seeking answers and I am obsessive about my new found perspective. I just chastise myself for not changing completely immediately. I don't see any positive's in tremendous energy and striving.

This was the prevailing attitude of men in my past life to me and fighting in general ( I had the same attitude too );


If I was unable to justify fighting for love, of all things, in my current life, then how was fighting for country any more justifiable? I feel like I'm stagnating without action though. Conflict is when I feel most alive. I wonder if that makes me a negative soul. Someone called my past life once ' a bad man fighting a good fight'. If I am just a bad man how can I change? I am dogged and ruthless in checking myself however. Maybe it's just 'growing pains' I dunno.

I hope nothing else pops out of the woodwork. I have PTSD from everything I've been involved in. I'm now a man of action who jumps at pidgeons. Maybe I needed to be broken to be repaired.

I hope I'm not driven back into action. I see the results of my past actions in the world and it's sobering to me. I inspire other men to violence. I don't know how to inspire anyone to peace. My nature already put me on a path that wasn't the wisest of decisions. I was impulsive and thinking on my feet. I don't know if there's any coming back from that.
 
Last edited:
Hi Jim,

Actually, your position (including shame) is exactly where repentance unto life begins for most. "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." Psalm 51:17 NIV. What I haven't seen yet is your willingness to turn in prayer and devotion to the One who makes heaven heaven and whose radiant life giving power brings all there into alignment with blessedness and goodness. You can refer to that presence as God or the "Source" or "The Radiance" or something else if you like. Words are inadequate anyway. Any way you look at it, this is the power you need now, and it is the power you must tap into for change. The fact that you are ashamed is a doorway, not a barrier. You have sought to storm various strongholds of men to make things straight, now you have another to storm, except with a difference. When you conquer you will be the one conquered and set straight.

I know it seems banal after all of this "durn high falutin' talk" (as some used to say where I live), but there is no better outline of the vertical path and the steps on that ladder than the 12 step path of AA. I'm not an alcoholic, though my family has had its share. However, I return to this from time to time as a reminder of the things I need to do and the path I need to stay on (and generally don't!). BTW--for "alcohol" you can substitute any besetting sin/vice/weakness that destroy your life and those around you, so I have inserted a couple of blanks in the version below. The path is the same, because the 12 steps are essentially an outline of the religious life and the vertical path:
  1. We admit that we are powerless over _______–that our life had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings
  8. Made a list of persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to _____ and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Actually, you seem to be partially or wholly on course in terms of most of the points that don't relate to a power higher than yourself. So, as suggested, that seems to be the sticking point for you. And, in terms of your objections regarding yourself, they actually relate to the prerequisites for being on such a path, so they are no objection. I'm actually a little wary about what could be unleashed in/by you by actually taking this path. Believe me, I talk a much better game than I'm personally able to live myself. But some instinct or intuition tells me that is not necessarily going to be true of you. Not because you could be evil or crazy or anything else, but because something tells me that you actually have the wit, dedication, verve, passion and even cunning (where it is necessary) to actually do this in a big way. I mentioned the Maharishi in a prior post, but that is not who comes to mind when I think of what you are capable of becoming. Actually, I think of Ignatius of Loyola. This is not to indicate that you would necessarily become a Roman Catholic Saint, it is because he was a reprobate dissolute soldier who became a saintly earth-shaker whose life is still reverberating and influencing other lives centuries after his death. Like him or not, he was an extremely potent and generally positive force in world affairs, and still is for many.

However, what you may or may not become is beside the point, and my intuitions may be awry. One starts this path because they have come to the end of their rope, and don't really have any other choice. You seem to be there, but it is up to you.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Back
Top