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SheSearches, I feel for you in your dilemma, having come from a household that would never have accepted me as gay. I was a coward, but more for the reasons of not wishing to hurt my parents. Same applied to having had a past life. My parents died without ever knowing. So having lived years of a 'double life' in those respects, and now looking back, I'd honestly say I wish I'd been more open when I was young. Living with secrets is hard, and takes a toll, even after the need for it goes away. Only you can decide how you want to live, and unfortunately no-one can really advise you what to do next. And if you'd feel an outcast in your culture and family, that's a big consideration too. But I think at some point you would need to find a way to stop fighting against yourself ... That won't change what you are, it will just give you stress and unhappiness in addition.

As for reasons ... My personal view is that I'm absolutely not here to learn lessons or like this because of karma. I'm just like this, that's how it is, and that's the situation I accept. There's nothing unusual in being gay! We're all on a spectrum, some nearer one end than the other, which is perfectly normal. I hope things work out for you very soon. Take good care of yourself, and try your best to enjoy the precious gift of life itself.

This comment makes me question the narrative of karma that I carry about my situation. I think I understand where you are coming from, and actually maybe seeing queerness as a form of karma implies that being gay is a punishment or difficult lesson one has to learn. Why can't it be the gift or blessing I have in this life? My perception of queerness is probably the punishment or difficult lesson.

You past life is something also worth thinking about - regret. I have never avoided an experience and not regretted it. I do need to stop fighting against myself, and that's going to be tough.

Thanks so much for your insight.
 
Hi SheSearches.

I am not gay but my own life experience shows me that not all of us are destined to have an easy route through our love lives.

Yet, if I may, I have noticed patterns in my own love life that give me insight.

My first true love placed her public image above any feeling she had for me. It was almost like, in her self hatred, she manifested the highest of contempt for me as I loved her and she couldn't love herself.

After many years and prisons and homelessness I came to a place of acceptance about myself. The wounds of life inflicted on me gave me peace and confidence...then a new challenge presented itself.

I fell in love with a woman who wanted to throw off the shackles of public perception of her but found that she couldn't.

This was opposite to my first love. My first love controlled her actions through public perception because she felt the need to do it to hide deep rooted insecurity.

My second love controlled her actions through public perception despite the fact she just wanted to be free of it, she was controlled by outside forces.

My point is that I've found that love, in many iterations, throws up many opposing and concurrent situations that resulted in the same thing....I was alone and single.

I think that you need to make peace with yourself but also keep in mind that not all of us are destined for happy relationships.

For me my hurt came from the expectations I placed on destiny not on destiny itself nor on the women I loved. Without expectations and with acceptance of oneself I feel that you will be on the right path to explore your own self.

After I met my second love I understood that the hurt my first love caused me was about gaining confidence and self esteem for myself, thus I was prepared for my second love.

I would suggest that you concentrate on self love and acceptance and eventually the Universe will give you what you need...but not necessarily what you want.

You may live in a relationship happily ever after, you may not. In my experience living who oneself is and not putting expectations on destiny when it arrives is the path to inner peace.
 
Hi Cyrus,

My examples are only intended to show that neutrality is not a favored position in terms of what we see around us in the universe. As I noted in my original post on this thread (#5), gender seems to be part of the pattern of duality--and even more, polarity--that is inherent in the structure of the universe. Therefore to me, sex appears to be only the expression at the physical level of a more universal principle (gender) that transcends the physical level.

However, my basic problem with your use of biological examples is that they are completely unconnected to any theory/hypothesis or stated belief in terms of the nature of spirit/soul that would make your observations related to the evolution of sex in the physical realm relevant to the question of gender in the spirit realm. What is the paradigm you are working from? Do you have any kind of overarching metanarrative in terms of the interaction of spirit and matter and the direction (if any) of the process we are involved in?

Assuming evolution as a paradigm, are souls/spirits on a parallel track of evolution from an undifferentiated beginning along with their associated biological life forms? If so, why would spirits not also develop/evolve gender as a basis for thoroughly and effectively interfacing with those biological life forms? It seems to me that spirits would develop into two types (genders) as well, with each adapted to interface with a particular sex. Without a form fixed in matter, spirits might be more versatile in terms of interfacing with an opposite sex body in the physical, but there could also be problems and discomfort (which seems to be supported by Stevenson's research).

On the other hand, why just two, why not three as we find with aquatic vs. amphibious vs. land based life forms? Is it possible that some spirits become thoroughly adapted to a male role, some to a female role, and some to mixed/intermediate roles (just as some life forms became thoroughly adapted to an aquatic life, some to a land based life, and some to an amphibious life)? In this regard, a particular body sex and sex role is part of the "environment" in which the spirit lives in the physical, just as water or land is another part of its physical environment. Further, the more thoroughly and better adapted to life in one environment, the less comfortable life forms are in alternative environments (in this case, sex/gender roles). Alternately, in an evolutionary model with both physical and spiritual evolution, why would physical bodies/types evolve and spirits not evolve/change in tandem reflecting the same changes?

Assuming colonization as a paradigm (which I have also heard used), with spirit beings having their origins elsewhere (i.e., in some other dimension) and basically seeking to colonize and live in and through the physical, there might be two models. In one, spirits are already gendered, and seek to shape physical life to meet their needs and preferences. In another, they would develop preferences and seek to adapt just as in the evolutionary model.

Assuming creation as a paradigm, why not gendered spirits? This seems to be the model held in the Abrahamic religions, at least in regard to the creation of human life. Other religions may have their own models for creation, but most have some type of creation story involving the first man and woman, as well as gendered gods. So, once again, gender appears to be inherent or at least an acceptable alternative.

I.e., I can find no reason why it seems axiomatic to so many that spirits cannot be gendered. o_O After all, we know very little about the field from a scientific standpoint, and religions and philosophies vary on such points as well. Where does this certainty come from? My opinion is that spirits have gender, but this is not a dogma, just an opinion.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Multiverse ideas are fun, but unconfirmed IMO. However, even if so, it doesn't mean that ordinary matter is not the default setting in our particular universe. Likewise, gender may also be the default setting for advanced/intelligent beings for this universe--in the physical as well as in spirit.

Hi, S&S:

I'll answer to just a small part of your message, namely, to "why it seems axiomatic to...".
IMHO, just why it seems axiomatic to ME (well, really, not so axiomatic, but fairly convincing, maybe).
There are members on this forum, who can remember their PLs much better than you and I can, and who narrated here about having been incarnated alternatevely into men and women, without any residual hysteresis effect.

For me it's quite sufficient.

Best regards.
 
This comment makes me question the narrative of karma that I carry about my situation. I think I understand where you are coming from, and actually maybe seeing queerness as a form of karma implies that being gay is a punishment or difficult lesson one has to learn. Why can't it be the gift or blessing I have in this life? My perception of queerness is probably the punishment or difficult lesson.

You past life is something also worth thinking about - regret. I have never avoided an experience and not regretted it. I do need to stop fighting against myself, and that's going to be tough.

Thanks so much for your insight.
I'm glad if my experiences have helped you in any way. I certainly find nothing in my innate sexuality that could be thought of as a punishment or a lesson, as I'm very content with it. I'm no longer going to be commenting publicly on this thread, but I'm more than happy to offer support on PM any time, if you feel it would be helpful. Wishing you all the very best in finding a way to live a happier life.
 
Hi Cyrus,

This board represents a fairly limited data set. Here is a larger data compilation for analysis:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/reincarnation-cases-sex-change

I am not vouching for the source overall, as I have not sought to review other issues it covers. However, this seems to be a fairly succinct but thorough compilation and analysis of existing data from serious researchers. From my standpoint, it leaves many issues unresolved, but that is probably to be expected at this stage of research. I also don't see that it definitively resolves the issue we have been discussing, but I'll be interested in your thoughts and reactions after review.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Cyrus,

This board represents a fairly limited data set. Here is a larger data compilation for analysis:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/reincarnation-cases-sex-change

I am not vouching for the source overall, as I have not sought to review other issues it covers. However, this seems to be a fairly succinct but thorough compilation and analysis of existing data from serious researchers. From my standpoint, it leaves many issues unresolved, but that is probably to be expected at this stage of research. I also don't see that it definitively resolves the issue we have been discussing, but I'll be interested in your thoughts and reactions after review.

Cordially,
S&S

Hi, S&S:

I'm really confused:

I thought we were talking of whether the souls (spirits) have gender or not.

But in this last article of yours they talk about the residual influence of a PL gender of a re-incarnated individual on his/her behaviour in a new life, when the gender changes.
I, more or less agree on this with your article, but the starting point idea was not that.

Two different scenarios may arise:

1. Souls have genders, and a male soul gets re-incarnated into a female, or vice-versa.
2. Souls have no genders, and a soul, previously incarnated into a male, this time incarnates into a female, or vice-versa.

Regards.
 
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Hi Cyrus,

I provided the cite as I thought you might appreciate a more thorough treatment on some of the issues related to cross-gender reincarnation.

As you say, the two possibilities are Souls have gender or they do not. I don't think we'll be able to get any farther than that in our discussion at this time, so best to let it be for the time being.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Firefly/Polaris,

I am blasting back to the past, since I have been out of town for a bit. This allowed me to avoid entanglement in some "physical plane gender" debates that went on over the last few pages in the meantime (for better or worse). However, my conversation with you two related to the question of ultimate gender, as opposed to manifest gender in the physical. Obviously, we are at issue on this point. Polaris claims experience in terms of ascent to planes of being beyond gender, while Firefly claims memory of numerous past lives as a male before her more recent series of female lives (over the last 500 years or so). I see no reason to dispute either of your accounts, but nonetheless dispute your conclusions.

As to Polaris' points:

In terms of my overview, as previously stated, it is primarily based on what I consider to be experimental verification by Ian Stevenson (to the extent I am familiar with his results and conclusions) and my own studies and observations. However, its manifestation is, as also discussed above, going to be based on the level/plane of being in question. Thus, moving beyond the physical, reliable NDE and OOBE reports seem to verify continuance of personal gender differences, and maintenance of the current or possibly remembered physical appearance. From there, moving "upward" (and accepting the fairly standard terminology for different planes of existence that Polaris uses):

"From my experience during conscious OBE's over the years gender seems to somewhat exist on the astral plane as we tend to still keep the same form and personality as we did in our last earth life. However as we transcend beyond the astral into the mental plane (where the universe mind occurs) the aspect of gender starts to blend together as this is the world of pure universal mind. As the mental body starts to reflect more of our spiritual character from all of the PL we have lived while in the lower worlds of duality. (Emphasis added).

Duality itself ends once soul transcends past the mental plane and into the causal or soul plane. Here soul is above time, space, matter and duality itself. It is here that soul is stripped of all lower body forms as we know it as human beings and is in its pure naked form of pure consciousness itself. So with no define form there is no gender here."

So far so good; however, as far as I can tell, in the mental plane any blending in terms of thought patterns, mentation, etc. is going to be gender skewed based on proportion of past lives in a particular "base" gender, though leavened by experience in the opposite gender. (This is somewhat confirmed by the underlined part of your statements above). However, the "rubber meets the road" so to speak in the causal plane, where gender has become--from my standpoint---potential/latent rather than actualized. Nonetheless, IMO gender still exists in latent form in the causal as well. In the causal it is, so to speak, in seed form.

Hmm. I'm going to switch over to a physical analogy that will perhaps clarify what I am trying to say. The fertilized egg--a simple sphere--is the source and "causal" basis of the developing human embryo and ultimate male/female body. From the standpoint of the outside observer, it is completely without gender. However, each fertilized egg already has within it (barring some genetic aberration) an XX (female) or XY (male) chromosome pair. Nonetheless, it will remain without any discernable outside gender differences through many subsequent stages of development before an ultrasound can clearly tell whether it is a boy or girl, i.e., its latent gender becomes its detectable and manifest external gender. Similarly, I see the causal existence as one where gender has become latent, but will manifest in due course in lower planes of existence. Even when latent, however, the being has "gender"--it is merely latent at that stage of existence just as it is in the undifferentiated fertilized ovum. As the being descends/moves into more differentiated states/planes of being, innate gender will cause gender related differences to appear as part of the process. These differences, while real, do not bar cross-gender physical incarnations, though they seem to be the cause of some problems.

As to Firefly's points:

Statistically speaking, numerous cross-gender prior lives remembered don't really prove anything, as we don't know the total number of past lives that have been lived or that all lives are being remembered. Your cross-gender PLs may also be more "memorable" because of the contrasts involved. It is also possible that souls vary more and are more experimental in their choices initially before they settle into their preferred gender pattern. Even with that, however, there seems to continue to be variation from time-to-time, whatever the reason. Also, across the broad spectrum of people, there will always be some variation. As the saying goes, the exceptions prove the rule. It should also be noted that--on the other side of the coin--there are also those like Jim78 and seemingly Patton who remember only single gender lives (maybe there is some kind of warrior tie-in on that one). Anyhow, I have no problems with variations, but I think the general rule remains.

Great points by both of you, and an interesting discussion from my standpoint!:)

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Polaris--Beyond the causal plane, I am not prepared to speculate. Anyhow, I barely can get my comprehension to wrap around the concepts related to the causal. That's as far as I want to go at this point! :cool:


S&S, Interesting observations. I believe that the reason why we still retain our gender on the astral plane after death is because first it is the next dimension just beyond the physical where emotional awareness takes place plus the astral body being made of much finer matter than the physical tends to mold itself to the heavier physical frame work and form of the physical body along with the persons mindset and personality during the last incarnation. However the higher we go in dimensions the less matter there is presence and the more spiritual substances there is manifesting itself. Once soul reaches the casual or soul plane all lower matter is dropped completely and the soul returns to its natural spiritual state of being in its purest form.

Many don't realize that when we are incarnated into the physical most of what is being manifested here is mostly physical matter with the lower ego largely in control of the show since it is dealing with the lower mind with very little spiritual substance getting thru to have experience here. Its not much but enough for the soul to have its experience here. However without the presences of the soul manifesting itself thru matter, matter can not hold itself together for long and will fall apart. In which case it will return to the natural elements of the earth plane. This is why when we die and the soul withdraws from the heavy physical body as the silver cord snaps the physical body as a whole starts to fall apart. It is no longer alive as a whole unit anymore but its individual cells still live on for awhile until they too return to the earth to feed and nourish planets and animal ect.. The soul has simply shifted its full awareness now in the astral body where it will continue to live on as before except now its full conscious awareness is on the astral now. This goes for all life be it man, animal, planets, ect... As all things are apart of spirit itself.

Peace and love to you always.

P.
 
Thank you everyone for your responses.

I am still reflecting on this and I guess it boils down to my beliefs around karma. I'm scared by "choosi


Thank you, Polaris.

It's funny - I know I don't love myself. I wish I was anyone but me and I have no idea why that is the case for me. Sadly I am unable to remember any past lives I have had to explain a lot of these feelings. My spiritual amnesia is strong! haha. Building the second family, the one you choose might just be a good starting point before I try and make a decision about how I want to live my life.

SheSearches, It does not matter if your gay, straight, bi, black, white, Asian, poor, rich, are of a different culture, religion, spiritual path or the many other things that make us different as individuals we are all still apart of divine love. For soul comes from the heart of god and divine love not sin. You are not a human that has a soul but a soul that is having a human experience. Always remember this my dear. Karma is not about punishment or reward. It's a tool to help the soul know itself thru trial and error. For soul is here so it may know itself by its own experience.

Peace and love always.

P.
 
Two different scenarios may arise:

1. Souls have genders, and a male soul gets re-incarnated into a female, or vice-versa.
2. Souls have no genders, and a soul, previously incarnated into a male, this time incarnates into a female, or vice-versa.
I don't think those are the only possibilities.

I look at things more broadly, some come into this life carrying intensely strong memories of previous life/lives, while others are seemingly unaware of any past (though research suggests most people do have some previous existence, it is more a case of not being able to remember).

Given the huge variability in people's recall, whether conscious or buried but manifesting in other ways such as trauma having no present-life cause, it seems to me that one cannot say very much about what is our 'true' nature. Personally I feel it is going beyond what we can know, to make definitive assertions about what are the available list of possibilities.
 
Hi Speedwell,

One reason I stopped pursuing the matter is that I realized that the question of soul gender inevitably involves the question of "origins"--where/what we came from? I also think it will inevitably involve the other "biggies"--where/what we (as soul/spirit) are going towards, and why? At this point, the proposed answers to all of these questions all appear to lie in the religious and philosophical domains. The scientific study of reincarnation and supporting realities (such as the nature of whatever immaterial "something" reincarnates) has barely gotten off of the ground, much less progressed to any coherent understanding of the "big" questions. In terms of science we might find common ground for agreement. In terms of religion and philosophy, the chances are minimal. It's fun to consider the possibilities sometimes, but probably better done on a thread dedicated to that purpose.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Nonetheless, and perhaps because very little is clear in these matters, I believe we are entitled to our respective opinions on all of the foregoing matters, including soul gender.
 
First of all, I'm sorry this is so hard for you and that you feel you don't have any support.

You chose this path for a reason. Why do you think that is? That's not a snarky question, but really think about it. What can you take from all this? The real lesson here may be somewhat removed from your sexual orientation.

Personally, I think we fall in love with a soul and not a body/society's idea of what constitutes as male or female. Human constructs often cloud our judgement.

We can only be who we are. Who that person is is up to you.
 
First of all, I'm sorry this is so hard for you and that you feel you don't have any support.

..........

Personally, I think we fall in love with a soul and not a body,,,,,,.

Come on, Klaud,

If this were true, then the planet Earth would get depopulated long long ago, because the souls here live IN the bodies, and the bodies are mortal and have to pro-create.

Love is only a by-product of the biological instinct of pro-creation, to help us to choose a partner best suited to produce the fittest new organism with.

This self-perpetuation instinct has undergone millenia of evolution, but, like a complex computer program, may still have certain errors (bugs), affecting the body's sexual orientation.

A soul may be offered a physical body with such a bug to re-incarnate into, for some reasons that we ignore.

IMHO.

Best regards.
 
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This thread gets more bigoted by the day. Come on, people, this is the 21st century, not the 19th.

I generally find that when a post starts like 'without sounding offensive or insensitive', it's about to do just that. You enclose a quotation which states that I have a 'disease' because of my homosexuality. That to me sounds highly offensive as well as insensitive.

This thread seems to be increasingly a platform for outdated and bigoted views which do not belong in the 21st century. Shame on you.

I apologize for the perceived offense. Here in India, I have not yet come in contact with homosexuals to understand them better. I have come across two bisexuals who now pursue a heterosexual lifestyle.There are transgender people called Hijra's in Indian language, who are believed to have the power to confer blessings on people during childbirth and weddings, and it is considered inaupicious to offend them or cause them misery.

The viewpoint suggested is that social and religious conditioning may have something to do with homosexuality, and it is for expressing this view that I put this post here. Apologizing again for any hurt feelings or sentiments and expressing my deepest well-wishes of peace and prosperity .
 
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Note from moderator: after a complaint of a member of the forum, the original post of AjayO was pulled and under admin review.
 
AjayO, thank you for your kind apology. I really appreciate that. I realise that the quotation you chose as an illustration is from a source that clearly has no understanding of the subject! Sending all good wishes to you also.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. An excellent summation of Humanist viewpoints that I think has broader meaning for all life:

The Vulcan IDIC: Infinite Diversity In Infinite Combinations:

The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and in how our differences combine to create meaning and beauty.

I personally don't believe based on my experiences that the source, the creator, universal consciousness....whatever, creates errors or bugs. IMO there is no such thing as coincidence.

It is very possible that the presence of differing sexualities, genders, races, cultures etc exist in this world to teach us, as a species, to eventually accept and celebrate diversity.

What differences teach on a personal level is probably individual IMO.

Also if we go back to thinking and treating differing sexuality as a disease to be treated IMO we risk returning to the barbarism that occurred in Europe just over three quarters of a century ago.

I posted originally on the thread because I didn't like the direction it was headed in and I personally believe that embracing diversity does not mean having the freedom to foster bigoted viewpoints.

Just saying...look at the OPs name...SheSearches. We are supposed to be encouraging her to embrace her differences not condemn her with overly intellectualised and non empathic opinions nor with concepts that her uniqueness is somehow erroneous or diseased.

Its careless, dangerous and unhelpful IMO. There is zero evidence of some kind of universal bugs or errors or of disease also. Why speculate away a new member who came here hoping for understanding?
 
Nothing is new under the sun. It has all happened before.

The days of Lot. And labeling the bitter for sweet, and the sweet for bitter. The game of illusions.

There is nothing to fear, for those who put their faith and their trust in the truth. Then the truth will shine for them and their souls, as a lamp for their feet as they walk through the darkest of ages.

Sweet is sweet.
And what is bitter is bitter.

Never doupt it. Trust the truth, and not the illusion. Every day, every hour, every minute and for every breathtake of your life, the truth shall set you free.
 
Glad you stated this as an opinion and not a fact, Cyrus! I do not see my orientation as an error or a bug. We are all equal in the eyes of God, in my opinion, and no-one is in a position to think they have the only right way of doing things.

Oh, tanker,

Please, don't overrate the importance of my insignificant opinion.

I learnt it from my biology teacher at school. Besides teaching, she also worked as a researcher in a genetics laboratory.

And I guess the most scientists have the same or similar opinion, too, poor devils. IMHO.

Regards.
 
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Come on, Klaud,

If this were true, then the planet Earth would get depopulated long long ago, because the souls here live IN the bodies, and the bodies are mortal and have to pro-create.

Love is only a by-product of the biological instinct of pro-creation, to help us to choose a partner best suited to produce the fittest new organism with.

This self-perpetuation instinct has undergone millenia of evolution, but, like a complex computer program, may still have certain errors (bugs), affecting the body's sexual orientation.

A soul may be offered a physical body with such a bug to re-incarnate into, for some reasons that we ignore.

IMHO.

Best regards.

So many of our predecessors had to hide their sexuality away and ~conform~ because being gay or whatever they were wouldn't have been acceptable in their time.

Again, human constructs/ideas can cloud our judgement, which is something very apparent in this thread. It's not that sexual orientation doesn't have merit when we're in a body, but that's an extremely minor detail in the soul's path and it basically becomes irrelevant when we're not in a body anymore.

I'm not convinced there is a bug. We love who we love and should be able to do so free of judgement and shame.

I have to respectfully disagree with your take on love being a by product. That's a very clinical way to look at it imo. Love really knows no bounds.
 
I agree with you Klaud.

If love is merely a biological construct for procreation then why did I encounter my past life fiance and love her just as intensely in my current life?

If its simply biology then how does Cyrus explain it biologically, as we were both in different biological bodies to our past lives?

IMO love is universal and its not for others to judge.
 
Hoo boy, I’m sorry about your experiences. Well just know that you’re valid no matter what and we’re getting more and more accepting to the point that even I am questioning my own sexuality sometimes. I’m mostly straight but I recognise that I’m not 100% hetero. Maybe 80%.

I’m not here as often as I used to but you have my support and this is coming from a dead Nazi. I’ve learnt my lesson to be more accepting.
 
Hmm. Just checking back on this ongoing debate. It seems to me that no one, including myself, has budged an inch from their initial positions since this discussion began. This subject has come up numerous times before, with the same result--if memory serves me. Sometimes it is best to just admit that an impasse has been reached and move on.
 
Hoo boy, I’m sorry about your experiences. Well just know that you’re valid no matter what and we’re getting more and more accepting to the point that even I am questioning my own sexuality sometimes. I’m mostly straight but I recognise that I’m not 100% hetero. Maybe 80%.

I’m not here as often as I used to but you have my support and this is coming from a dead Nazi. I’ve learnt my lesson to be more accepting.
You are absolutely right! I can relate to it because we are on the same boat.
 
Hmm. Just checking back on this ongoing debate. It seems to me that no one, including myself, has budged an inch from their initial positions since this discussion began. This subject has come up numerous times before, with the same result--if memory serves me. Sometimes it is best to just admit that an impasse has been reached and move on.

I believe that the root of the issue is that most are still all in when it comes to duality and gender being one of them after all this world is built on it to the extreme. I used to think that with the knowledge of reincarnation and other lives would resolve this issue where there is some universality where there is common ground of having been through such but clearly people still got a long road ahead of them.
 
Hi TABA,

I agree in terms of the basic issue, but not in terms of your position on the matter. I'm not trying to diss your opinion, just stating my disagreement.

Duality is a fact here in the physical, and I like the interplay of Yin/Yang, darkness/light, etc. etc. So, I am definitely not anti-duality, it is what makes many or most of the beauty and wonders of existence in the physical possible (at least to me). The real question is, so to speak, how far duality goes beyond the physical and what beyond the physical continues to manifest non-physical aspects of the type of yin/yang--feminine/masculine duality we see in the physical.

Polaris seems to be OK with this type of duality in the Astral, but sees it disappearing at higher levels. OTOH, I see gender duality as merely being expressed in other ways and/or being present but latent (rather than manifest) at higher levels. I'm not sure where others stand on this issue, though most seem to prefer a non-gendered spirit/soul. When it comes to same-gender sexual attractions, the conversation really gets muddled, and usually a great deal more problematic and contentious.

Actually, it seems to me that the last issue is the unspoken determinant for many folks giving opinions in this area. Consequently, to me at least, this whole subject area has become a "tail wagging the dog" situation.

However, I don't know how to get rid of the question. Can gender and gender attraction be discussed without taking into account same-gender attraction? I think it is possible, though the answer to this seems to be a resounding NO! based on what I see on this thread. That is unfortunate from my standpoint. Likewise, I hate to see discussion of the basic issue of soul/spirit gender being dominated by the issue of sexual attraction in the physical.

Anyhow, I'm not casting aspersions in terms of anyone's opinions on the soul/spirit gender issue, but I do wish it was possible to have a discussion that didn't end up getting side-tracked and ending in a muddle.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S,

I do remember that once you wrote about you being female in a former life. You were a lady in the occult circles. I remember a picture of her. It strikes me that you don't mention this anymore. Did you change your mind or did it become a kind of embarrassing feeling? Could it be possible that because of some gender confusion, you try to draw strict borders?
Hey, I know these feelings. It's a bit of a twisted throwback from a past life experiencing living in the body of the opposite sex.
The confusion and psychic tension can become so great that you can turn away from the experience, instead of incorporating its interesting lessons.
 
Hi Firefly,

Good question! No, I haven't rejected that putative PL, nor have I rejected at least one more that also seems to have been female (though I wish I could get more/clearer memories on both). I also am OK with being (as a current male) one of the occasional cross-gendered manifestations of an otherwise "feminine" soul/spirit! Those are issues I worked through some years back, though the whole idea was quite a shock at the time. :confused::eek:o_O;)

As you can see from my included emojis, this was a bit of a surprise--but in the end, what the heck! As Popeye the Sailor says: I Yam what I Yam and that's all that I Yam! If a feminine gendered soul/spirit is what I "ultimately" am, I'm OK with that. :) And, no need to freak out either way. :cool:

In any case, my basic reasons for sticking with the "gendered" soul idea are: (1) statistical; and (2) philosophical/religious. On (1), I think the PL data to date supports this hypothesis. On (2), I have done a lot of reading from a very wide variety of sources over the years. The idea of a gendered soul/spirit is certainly not something out of the blue. Actually, I think that most Western sources (at least) support this idea. Plus, I like it myself on a personal level. I'd discount the last if I thought (1) and/or (2) were less supportive, but for me, existence seems more comfortable and comfortably human from this perspective. Here I am not just talking about soul gender, but about the whole wonderful dualistic M/F and Yin/Yang creation that we inhabit. :D I like the universe that way and it just makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Every so often I just have to let out those inner emojis!
 
Hi Firefly,

As a quick follow-up, I also have another female lifetime that I suspect was mine. This suspicion is not based on tangible memories, but on an extremely strong emotional response to this historical personage when I discovered her existence. (She is somewhat famous-or infamous--in France, but I was not familiar with her as an American).

I was informed early on (in learning about PLs) that extreme emotional responses and feelings--with no current life explanation--were one of the signs of a PL. In this case, surprisingly enough, my response was not one of excitement, but of very extreme and deep chagrin/embarrassment. Insofar as chagrin/embarrassment is an emotion based on one's past personal actions and idiocies this "she" also might have been "me". However, I suppose it is also possible that "she" was just someone I was very close to. In any case, the PLs I have come up with so far (or even have an intuition or reaction to) in the PL field tend to be female--which was surprising to me at first. Now, not so much. My ability to adjust to the idea and take it in stride after an initial shock may also indicate something. o_O

Cordially,
S&S

PS--My embarrassment was not due to her gender, but due to the fairly wild actions and history of this person. There is a lot in her that I admire and even identify with, but her behavior was pretty abysmal. Sheesh, I feel embarrassed just thinking about it.
 
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