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Poll: about your view of God

Poll: about your view of God

  • It is a man with white beard

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • It is a sexy woman a godess

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • It is a transcendental god, so it has no "looks"

    Votes: 30 56.6%
  • There are many deities in my religion (so be more specific)

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • I do not believe in any god or higher power

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • I believe in Nature (or Universe) but that is.

    Votes: 12 22.6%

  • Total voters
    53

AOSpare

Zos Kia Cultus
I assume that most folks here believe in some version of a higher power. There are two kind generally speaking - an external, anthropomorphic god or a transcendental god. The first one also called "personal god" and in out Judeo Christian world we are lead to believe that this is the one true god. The other more oblique transcendental god is not "outside of us" but truly within ALL that is and beyond. There are people on the fringe who still believe in godesses, multiple deities, minor and major ones.

For me g-d is a principle, not a form or entity but infinity "personified". I believe that Nature, the Universe is finite but what is finite that is corruptible and perishable at the same time. Beyond our multiverses there is something we cannot fathom or understand. It has no sex (neither he or a she) - it does not interfere or drive Human affairs or smite nor punishes or loves us. It is just there, has no beginning nor end. Universes (or multiverses) come and go. The system is of balance of nature where physical, metaphysical laws apply. When we ascend we become one with this infinite g-d. (whether you think this is a good idea or not). I do not believe in Heaven or Hell. Existence such as this cannot be critiques or understood as we do not comprehend such a timeless existence as we cannot comprehend infinity. Anyway so much for my views. What is yours?
 
I think that the lord has created the world as a Natural Force that we may never know like what caused the big bang that created fire and gasses. The fire and gasses created rocks, gasses and minerals and through the mineral residue we evolved.


The lord is a awesome lord who is patient and forgive no matter the wrongs we have committed or failed to do, he created us and brought us into this earth for a reason by means of life lessons from Astrology and/or Meditation.
 
Thanks for the post Twilight. It is interesting that how much we humans emphasize god's name that the ancients (Jews, Hindu's) were shunned from. What is in the name? Allah or Jehovah, or Vishnu? It is all supposed to be the same, isn't it? Was Jesus a g-d or was he the son of g-d? I do not buy any of that but it is a personal thing. I prefer the idea of "sun of god".


Our interpretation and view is what is different.


The reason why the Kaballah forbids using g-d's name because it was undesirable to try to interpret g-d for the reason I gave earlier. Of course what I am trying here by my post would have been a stone-able offense, in Biblical times. I use g-d as a reminder.

Twilight said:
I think that the lord has created the world as a Natural Force that we may never know like what caused the big bang that created fire and gasses. The fire and gasses created rocks, gasses and minerals and through the mineral residue we evolved.
The lord is a awesome lord who is patient and forgive no matter the wrongs we have committed or failed to do, he created us and brought us into this earth for a reason by means of life lessons from Astrology and/or Meditation.
 
AOSpare said:
Thanks for the post Twilight. It is interesting that how much we humans emphasize god's name that the ancients (Jews, Hindu's) were shunned from. What is in the name? Allah or Jehovah, or Vishnu? It is all supposed to be the same, isn't it? Was Jesus a g-d or was he the son of g-d? I do not buy any of that but it is a personal thing. I prefer the idea of "sun of god".
Our interpretation and view is what is different.


The reason why the Kaballah forbids using g-d's name because it was undesirable to try to interpret g-d for the reason I gave earlier. Of course what I am trying here by my post would have been a stone-able offense, in Biblical times. I use g-d as a reminder.
You're most welcome wine** it's all cool ^_^
 
I voted "Trandenscental God". I believe that nobody can really know what God looks like until after death. I've read many accounts of children remembering Heaven, and every one of them descibes God in a different way.


Personally, I figure that God may be able to change His look depending on who/what you were when you died to make the whole process more comfortable. Example: If you were dark skinned, then God might appear dark skinned. If you were light skinned, God might appear light skinned. If you were a female, God might look female (a mother figure). If you were a male, God might look male (a father figure).
 
afterlife


How we perceive g-d in between reincarnations, after death? Indeed the image we use is what we envisioned while we were alive. For meditative practice, it is also beneficial to imagine what god would "look like" to us and meditate on that, then just let go....I always used fire as I was a one time student of Agni Yoga, and Agni means fire in Sanskrit but the Ocean, Sun, Moses would equally work.
 
I went for believing in Nature, because that is what most closely describes how I tend to see things (Pantheist), that the Universe and 'God' are one-and-the-same, that Nature and Divinity are synonymous. The way I see it 'God' is the life force or energy behind, within and throughout the physical Universe, the infinite Light behind, within and throughout all things, from which everything comes and everything eventually returns. The term 'God' is our way of describing this infinite force of energy, the whole of the Universe, that which is greater than ourselves, a way of trying to comprehend it in a way that we can understand. In describing it this way though, I could have gone for a transcendental god also, the two ways of seeing have a lot of overlap.
 
I beleive in one god. Who he may be to you is your choice, but i think he / she is one & the same 'person' form or whatever you may call it. Looks wise again i feel it will be whatever reasonates with each person, not even necesarily in human form, but once passed you'll know exactly who & what he is. I like to think he is ultimate love, the unconditional best feeling ever, and you know your home and with him :) )
 
I believe Humans are all incarnations of the Elhim(Great Mighty Ones).
"The Elhim are the Assembly of El(Mighty One); El judges among the Elhim. How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in foolishness: all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I have declared that all of you are Elhim, the children of Elyon. But you shall die as Edam(Humankind), and fall as but only princes. Wake up, Elhim judge the earth: for you shall have the possess of all the earth." said by El Elyon but recorded by King David, this is the Canaanite version of the Psalms 82
 
Mostly, I think we can't really know.

In a larger sense, I believe in something similar to the traditional Christian concept of Trinity, but not exactly spot on. I think God exists as both a sort of force of nature and as a true being. Sometimes I am inclined to believe that one Being is Jesus, who became such after Being born human, but I am not really sure. I don't think that one Being can control all, although sometimes things have happened that make me think intervention is possible. But it also might be the natural force that can either be drawn to making things happen for us, or making things happen against us. I think the natural force is really just nature, but that nature has a mystical component.


So to keep it simpler... at heart, I have primarily Judeo-Christian beliefs, but I also believe that all faiths have some basis in truth, and I don't think it works exactly how Christianity has traditionally portrayed God. Mostly, I don't think we can really know for sure.
 
Mostly, I think we can't really know.

In a larger sense, I believe in something similar to the traditional Christian concept of Trinity, but not exactly spot on. I think God exists as both a sort of force of nature and as a true being. Sometimes I am inclined to believe that one Being is Jesus, who became such after Being born human, but I am not really sure. I don't think that one Being can control all, although sometimes things have happened that make me think intervention is possible. But it also might be the natural force that can either be drawn to making things happen for us, or making things happen against us. I think the natural force is really just nature, but that nature has a mystical component.


So to keep it simpler... at heart, I have primarily Judeo-Christian beliefs, but I also believe that all faiths have some basis in truth, and I don't think it works exactly how Christianity has traditionally portrayed God. Mostly, I don't think we can really know for sure.

As a Gnostic Christian, and perpetual seeker of God, defined as the best rules and laws to live by, I am closet to agnostics which the old translation tie to Gnosis, and we follow more the Buddhist saying that if you meet God on the road, kill him.

Regards
DL
 
This is a super fascinating topic! I honestly am not sure where I lie in this belief. My ideas about God are changing because of my experiences and my soul growth. I do believe in a all powerful God, but I think that organized religion is really confused about many things and most of it is story telling....the old testament is just a series of stories like folklore. The new testament seems like it has more to offer. That being said I don't believe in theological study or organized religion, I think there are soooo many things that we as mere mortals will not know the truth of until we reach the next plain of enlightenment. I do have a strong belief in reincarnation because I feel it in my soul and I know I have been here many times. I am a firm believer that I am here to experience soul growth so that I may advance in enlightenment and serve a higher purpose. I vibrate on a higher level than the average person and I am working to learn more about this, even though I don't really understand it all yet (if it is possible). I do think that if i desire something I can achieve it without a doubt, I have control over my spirit and it is quite powerful. Right now I am seeking information about reincarnation because I am being flooded with all kinds of experiences and would like to make some sense of them. Please, tell me where I fall into such a category. I am pretty loose in my interpretation, but I know there is good and evil! Please comment and enlighten me with your thoughts and opinions :) Nikki
 
This is a super fascinating topic! I honestly am not sure where I lie in this belief. My ideas about God are changing because of my experiences and my soul growth. I do believe in a all powerful God, but I think that organized religion is really confused about many things and most of it is story telling....the old testament is just a series of stories like folklore. The new testament seems like it has more to offer. That being said I don't believe in theological study or organized religion, I think there are soooo many things that we as mere mortals will not know the truth of until we reach the next plain of enlightenment. I do have a strong belief in reincarnation because I feel it in my soul and I know I have been here many times. I am a firm believer that I am here to experience soul growth so that I may advance in enlightenment and serve a higher purpose. I vibrate on a higher level than the average person and I am working to learn more about this, even though I don't really understand it all yet (if it is possible). I do think that if i desire something I can achieve it without a doubt, I have control over my spirit and it is quite powerful. Right now I am seeking information about reincarnation because I am being flooded with all kinds of experiences and would like to make some sense of them. Please, tell me where I fall into such a category. I am pretty loose in my interpretation, but I know there is good and evil! Please comment and enlighten me with your thoughts and opinions :) Nikki

I cannot on reincarnation but can give you something to ponder on the evils we must do to evolve.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane and immoral God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.

Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

-----------------------

Evolutionary theology.

 
I cannot on reincarnation but can give you something to ponder on the evils we must do to evolve.
I do believe what you are saying here....

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Agreed

Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane and immoral God. That’s who. Sounds like a man to me.....

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men. I also agree

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy." He's a Narcissist?

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem. Okay, I see your point

If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. Absolutely! If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility. Is it? I never thought of it that way, but it does make sense.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. I don't think natural disasters are evil.....I think they were meant to be.

Evil then is only human to human.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.

Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times. I am not sure how to define that really. You mean that if I never sin I am cooperating? OF COURSE everyone sins.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct. This is accurate.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. I don't know what I believe anymore. I operate from my gut and I can't ignore those things that I experience which come from another place. I can't make sense of it, but I know that I don't like to be preached to from a book that has been written by men (not God). There is no archeological proof of some of the cities from the bible events (etc.), there are just so many holes. I can't trust all of it's teachings. I feel that there must be some truth to parts of it, but how do I know which parts? haha .

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition. Yes, that is inevitable!

I guess I should add that I am experiencing many deep thoughts at this time and some are too much to handle because my spirit is fighting with my mind. I go with spirit because it makes me feel more complete and brings me a sense of joy that I can't reach using my intellect. I still say that we will never REALLY know the answers to any of these "questions" since its sources are at times questionable. This shall be a good place for me to explore my thoughts I guess. My intuition tells me to believe what I feel and what I am shown versus what I read. I am not saying it is right or wrong it is just how I feel. I will definitely read more about what it means to be an Gnostic Christian Naturalist. Thank you for your post :) Nikki


Regards
DL
 
I can't trust all of it's teachings. I feel that there must be some truth to parts of it, but how do I know which parts? haha .

Gnosis.


Most of what the bible says meant to be read as allegory or from an esoteric POV.
It is about what happens in your own mind. Almost none of it should be read literally.

I guess I should add that I am experiencing many deep thoughts at this time and some are too much to handle because my spirit is fighting with my mind. I go with spirit because it makes me feel more complete and brings me a sense of joy that I can't reach using my intellect.

I do not see that as a good idea.

What you see is insight, wisdom and Gnosis and mental treasures, so to speak. Here is what Gnostic Christianity has to say on that.

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The treasure is in you and all you know enters you through your mind and consciousness.

I still say that we will never REALLY know the answers to any of these "questions" since its sources are at times questionable.

Answers can be known if the question speaks of reality.

You mentioned looking into Gnostic Christianity.

I suggest starting by naming your Goddess.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.


Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.


The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL
 
I can’t speak to most of this because right now I don’t have time to read it. What I don’t know that I like is the level of righteousness in what you say. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and when I have time to read them completely maybe I will agree. However there is a sense of superiority and arrogance in all that you post. I don’t care for that because of what you say my thoughts are mine and my believes are mine to have. I feel like I’m being judged and that’s not something I think has a place here.

I’ll definitely follow up as I am interested. Thank you again for taking the time to look at my message.

Nikki
 
I can’t speak to most of this because right now I don’t have time to read it. What I don’t know that I like is the level of righteousness in what you say. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and when I have time to read them completely maybe I will agree. However there is a sense of superiority and arrogance in all that you post. I don’t care for that because of what you say my thoughts are mine and my believes are mine to have. I feel like I’m being judged and that’s not something I think has a place here.

I’ll definitely follow up as I am interested. Thank you again for taking the time to look at my message.

Nikki

My assertiveness, born from Gnosis and assuredness, does likely read as arrogance. When one thinks and speaks his mind, there is always the chance of insulting. I assume I am speaking to a mind equal to mine that can get past that.

Have you ever seen two scientists speaking together, they often call each others ideas stupid but ignore it and end amicably. I find your early judgement premature.

Regards
DL
 
Not a believer in deity at this time. Nature yes - "Universe" yes - angels and guides, maybe. Deity, no.
 
Not a believer in deity at this time. Nature yes - "Universe" yes - angels and guides, maybe. Deity, no.

The intelligent position.

As a Gnostic Christian, I too favor nature. I have used the following analogy when speaking to the believers in a supernatural God. God to me is what most see as an ideal.

The ideal God or guide for an ant, is an ant.
The ideal God or guide for a lion, is a lion.
The ideal God or guide for a man, is a man.

To think otherwise, to me, is rather dumb.

Regards
DL
 
DL, your remark reminds me of the book Animal Farm that illustrates what you said very well, I really liked that book and hope that everyone reads it at some point in their life.
I'm rather surprised at the breadth of people's view of God, from non-existent to plural and being "born of women". The question of whether or not there is an intelligence behind all of this is still being questioned and each of us have created our beliefs based upon our ignorance, instructions and experiences. My thoughts are that if we knew more than we do that our tasks would be less constructive for us.
 
DL, your remark reminds me of the book Animal Farm that illustrates what you said very well, I really liked that book and hope that everyone reads it at some point in their life.
I'm rather surprised at the breadth of people's view of God, from non-existent to plural and being "born of women". The question of whether or not there is an intelligence behind all of this is still being questioned and each of us have created our beliefs based upon our ignorance, instructions and experiences. My thoughts are that if we knew more than we do that our tasks would be less constructive for us.

If there was an intelligence behind it all, we would not be able to prove it unless that intelligence popped up. Our intelligence tells us that if there was, and it wanted to be relevant to us, it would pop up. Is lack of evidence evidence in and of itself?
I think so.

Like Intelligent Design, things do look intelligently made, but if evolution was not intelligently working, we would not likely be here to say it was. The revealed religions are here to sell dreams to suckers who want more out of reality than it can give.

The Gnostic Christian view of our design.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
 
If there was an intelligence behind it all, we would not be able to prove it unless that intelligence popped up. Our intelligence tells us that if there was, and it wanted to be relevant to us, it would pop up. Is lack of evidence evidence in and of itself?
I think so.

Like Intelligent Design, things do look intelligently made, but if evolution was not intelligently working, we would not likely be here to say it was. The revealed religions are here to sell dreams to suckers who want more out of reality than it can give.

The Gnostic Christian view of our design.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
Close but no cigar, as they say. The closing conclusion about the best is borrowed (plagiarized) from Plato, obviously. This concept about all being created and arranged for the best were Socrates' very words recorded by Plato in the Phaedo dialogue. And as far as the survey, I would vote for God being a man, only without the beard, if I recall well from my last encounter with God. But to tell you the truth about God is not easy to tell it to all mankind, and only a few previledged can even phatom the essence of God. And unless one is blessed with divine madness, there is no way in hell one can understand God and real existence......and I really mean hell to be our near endless incarnations in the physical world of the five senses.
 
Close but no cigar, as they say. The closing conclusion about the best is borrowed (plagiarized) from Plato, obviously. This concept about all being created and arranged for the best were Socrates' very words recorded by Plato in the Phaedo dialogue.

Arranged, I would not agree with as natures works is inadvertent and arranged would have a sentient mind behind it to form a pattern. At least the way I use the term.

For the rest, it is obvious and irrefutable.

Was Socrates looking at the whole world?

there is no way in hell one can understand God and real existence......

I will give you the God part if you are talking about some supernatural entity. We cannot know if such even exists let alone what it would think, or if it thinks.

I define God as the best set of rules and laws to live life by and those can be understood.

tell us of a couple of things you do not understand and if not in the supernatural realm, those might be understandable after some dialog.

Regards
DL
 
Arranged, I would not agree with as natures works is inadvertent and arranged would have a sentient mind behind it to form a pattern. At least the way I use the term.

For the rest, it is obvious and irrefutable.

Was Socrates looking at the whole world?



I will give you the God part if you are talking about some supernatural entity. We cannot know if such even exists let alone what it would think, or if it thinks.

I define God as the best set of rules and laws to live life by and those can be understood.

tell us of a couple of things you do not understand and if not in the supernatural realm, those might be understandable after some dialog.

Regards
DL
If my deductive and inductive reasoning is indeed divine madness, then I will assert that Socrates knew God best, and therefore Socrates was referring to all that exists, existed, and will exist, or as some class it, the world...or universe, or multi-verse, etc.

As far as arrangement, and order of precedence for the universe, mind comes first, and therefore all is arranged for the best by the best mind...God. it really takes a weak mind and a faulty concluion to believe that order comes from disorder, when disorder is believed to be the state in which existence began. I WILL ALLOW, that the physical universe appears to have "began" in disorder, and thereby, apparently, becoming more orderly, due to being constantly under the laws of nature, which are absolute. These laws were set in motion by the ultimate and absolute intelligence...God. The very proof of a pattern, and a logical one at that, is all that is needed to accept that the universe is orderd by intelligence and therefore it has scope...in other words, it is patterned after the best, and for the best. But apparently some nostics don't understand the meaning of the best, nor patterns, nor chaos, which is the opposite of order and pattern, as a pattern is the meaning of order. One can predict the future if the pattern is understood, as patterns repeat, whereas disorder cannot be predicted, obviously. Without order and patterns in the universe, how can you claim to understand that you originated in another part of the universe? How can one recognize directions in a world of disorder? A direction is valid only in an orderly universe. Granted, the physical universe is always in flux, but it is ever changing under the orderly universal physical laws, which change can be predicted as far as direction and time.
 
To me GOD is Light, an omnipresence we just don't have words for. He is the wyrd, or vibration.
Since God is everything possible, God can be whatever anyone cares to or imagines to be....there is no wrong answer, as to what and who God is. Only that, those who really know God, those very few whom God chooses to reveal himself to now, know that God is much more than what any religion or science makes God out to be. In fact, God goes well beyond good and evil. Another fact is tbat, in reality, we all know God more intimately than we can realize in our present state of mind......we all are made to forget who we really are, and for good reasons. It will all be made clear when we will all fully and suddenly "awake", as in a twinkling of an eye.
 
I have had an experience which convinced me there was 'something' and that it was trying to look after me. and everyone else. That doesn't preclude me from awful experiences while I am here. I think it also gave me the message to try and be of service to those around me, nothing grand, just try and help if i could and don't if I can't, as some people you can't help as they are going through something that is none of your business connected to their incarnation, I regularly chat to "it" sometimes pretty bluntly and that is ok. I usually ask for guidance and healing wisdom and that sort of stuff or I just have a grumble and a whine about how hard done by I am lol. I get very confused by biblical books and think that they are gods word corrupted by humans. You can actually just talk straight to the source, I tried to live by the motto do no harm but I don't think you can get out of this world without a few scrapes and you are going to hurt and offend people all the time so just get on with life and don't worry about it so much.
 
Here's what I think is most religions belief of a god. Which proves 100% that there is a God. However they just don't know the truth! As the GOD they believe in is the SUN.
It started many centuries ago when an Egyptian king (Akhenaten) decided there was only ONE TRUE GOD. All the other Egyptian Gods were nothing. The true God was to him the Sun. He forced all the other Egyptians to worship this one true God. Casting aside other gods. For this God shone his light on everyone. Nor could you look upon the face of this god.
Unfortunately the Egyptians resented Akhenaten getting shut of the other gods. Eventually they turned on him and got rid of him. And then set up about restoring the other gods back to the status they had before. They also removed any trace of the worship of Akhenaten and the Sun God from monuments and temples. However they couldn't remove the idea of the one true god from some of the people, who resorted to worshipping it in secret, as the authorities tried to suppress the god's worship. Thousand's of years passed and the one true god worship became a religion of the one true god, it also became so secretive that the real meaning of the god (being the sun) was lost and all that was left, was the one true god and that "he" shines his light on us all, plus you can't look at the face of god.
As Egypt was full of slaves, they latched on to the idea of the one true God, since it was frowned upon by authority. And if your are a slave anything they don't like must have some merit!
Still nobody had any idea about Akhenaten and his one true God, till Napoleon was hunting around in Egypt and discovered a lost city of Akhenaten. It was full of all the stuff that was in the Bible about God, but with one exception. It showed that one true god as the Sun.
Even the Christen saying God, the son and the holy ghost, are connected to this Egyptian. The Sun, - God, the Son, Akhenaten himself, he believed he was the "son of the Sun". The Moon being the "holy ghost".
When you think about it this explains why religions don't like the night.
 
I believe in a higher power, but not 'God', I usually say that I believe in 'The Universe', I believe that there is a power, or a force, that set off the big bang and therefore 'created' the world, however I do not believe that anything was designed though. I believe that the power does try to guide us, however I believe it has both good and evil in it, which is why there are still problems in the world, but I think that most things happen for a reason, and the universe allows the bad things to happen in order for other things to be able to happen because of it.
I don't 'worship' the universe so to say, however I do have a lot of respect for its power and all of the things that it has done for me.

I hope that made sense, I'm bad at explaining things.
 
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