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What's the reason behind it all?

How do we know the first humans here on Earth weren't migrated from some other place some time AFTER the creation? The missing link and all that. And migration is not the only way.
As Mauro Biglino (ex-translator from hebrew of Vatican) says, the homo sapiens might have been created from homo erectus through genetic engineering by the Biblical Elohims (adding pieces of their own DNA) to provide themselves with slaves, capable of understanding their orders. I'm not sure, but it looks like it was Zecharia Sitchin's idea (I never read Sitchin), after deciphering old sumerian tablets.
You have a point in this. But I didn't say our spirits are Earthbound. That would be very narrow-minded indeed. I am at the same time not a believer of Zecharia Sitchin. About ten years ago I really dived into his theories. I really wanted to believe, but I found too much evidence that he had a great imagination but lacked self-criticism. He interpreted too much in his own favor, while there were serious scientifical alternate explanations to his translations.
Still, there is a missing link in our human history. I agree.
It doesn't conflict with the greater origin of life.
 
I thought conciousness was a by product of the brain once upon a time too...but sometimes life's experience flies in the face of explanations Cyrus.

I do know that on the other side all thoughts become manifest...its a realm beyond physics...but its evidence is all around us, in art, philosophy, love, hate, relationships, life. We just tend to take it all for granted and don't see that consciousness creates. On the other side of the veil that's taken to the nth degree in my experience.
 
I'm a physicist by education, and I just don't understand how energy (a well defined physical concept) can be related to smth. so abstract as love.

I am talking about a more subtle type of energy that science hasn't discovered yet (or at least not that the public knows of). It is not too difficult to learn sensing this energy and its flow through the body and even outside of it.

One way to do it is to spend time focusing on the areas where chakras are located until you feel some new sensation there. Then you can focus on that sensation and let it grow. The more you do that, the more distinct and clear the sensations of this subtle energy become - it's also called prana, chi, personal power, etc.
 
You have learned something, at least. Wish I could say the same about myself. Did I learn anything? I still do not know. Did humankind learn anything? Who am I to ask? And so on...

...and besides, what's the use of learning anything, when in your next re-incarnation, due to amnesia, you won't remember anything you learnt, so you won't be influenced by your previous life's lesson. Lesson unlearnt. Any lesson.

Suppose, in one of my lives I beat my wife; in the next life I'll be a beaten wife myself, without suspecting whether I deserve it or not; in the life after the next I may be a man again, but not remembering how hard it is to be a beaten wife, so what will prevent me from beating my wife again?
 
Good question, but maybe, after many lives, you will be either the man or the beaten wife again, and like amnesia almost begins to leak, you suddenly decide to act differently. You engage in aiding victims of violence. Instead of passing violence on (beaten children often beat their own children, too), you choose a different path. By the way, there are also women who beat their husbands, it just is less talked about.
Who knows how all this works... and how often you have to go through the same XXXX again before you change something. If all this is about learning at all, that is. I hope so, I want to believe that. There is no way I can be absolutely sure, though.
 
One remembers it subconsciously Cyrus. I have a lot of evidence of my having remembered or anticipated things subconsciously. Life progresses in my experience.
 
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We can shoot the breeze how long we want, but don't get too upset if you can't get it (the meaning of life)! Most don't. My suggestion: you do your best, guided by what you think is best, not guided by what others say is best. Nobody can ask more from you, neither here, nor There. If you think too much of things over your head, you risk missing the elementary things you could actually do while here.

I believe we are here to learn to master our emotions, especially fear, which evolutionary was necessary, and even now protects us. I may be wrong, but I prefer to be wrong on my own, than to follow a misguided prophet. I also believe I know my current life's lesson, I believe I understood where it comes from, I realize that I still have some difficulties with it, but I'm doing my best.

I hope to become "lucid' while "dreaming" this life, to understand more who I am, and what I want to do. If I can't, it wasn't meant to be.
 
I will throw this in and see where it goes.

The modern western mind will always and forever struggle when it comes spiritual things because this mind can only understand carnal things as it is a product of the times in a unbelieving world being of only dry dead intellect where the understanding of spiritual things is completely dead. Those who function by this type of mind can only understand reality by their narrow set of physical experiences and only think/process within those confines while the factory style education the vast majority of us are forced to make do with only reinforces this narrow mindedness of the modern western mind. The only way people who have this type of mind can understand higher level/order things those being the spiritual they have no choice but to change their minds and how they process the reality around them. From my understanding is that reincarnation has a couple of motives where people get another chance however many they need to get things right while for others it becomes an option where they can come back if they choose to for whatever reason they decided to do so that likely experience or to get something done (help others).
 
Hi Cyrus. One has to look beyond science. I can't explain it but I had an NDE in 1998 and I experienced creation as love and synergy...oneness.

There are other routes that can be taken to experience that feeling but that's been my experience.

Love might not be something that can be measured by science but one cannot deny its existence. Its binds people together... is it so hard to believe that it binds creation? ( by creation I mean spiritual realms also ) The world is but a walking shadow after all.

Love? What is this? I know what love between relatives is (mother & her adult son, brothers & sisters, etc. - it is strongly coupled to the perpetuation of species). I know what sexual love is (it is necessary to grow children together until an age when they can continue without their parents). Patriotism (just an awareness of common interests). Could never understand christian love. Even worse, I believe nobody can: IMHO it's just an ideal alternative to save ourselves from escalation of vengeance.

Does it really bind us? More than a policeman round the corner?

There is more love betwen wild animals than humans, because a wolf never kills a wolf, a lion never kills another lion, not even his rival for a lioness; whereas the humans do it all the time.

Can Love be measured by science? Many things we perceive cannot be measured, colour, e.g. We believe we see a, say, green color, whereas in reality, it's light with some well defined wavelengths that enters our eyes, performs some chemical reactions and our biological computer (brain) presents it to us nicely in form of a colour. But there ain't really no colour outside there.
 
a lion never kills another lion, not even his rival for a lioness.
Actually, cats sometimes do this. Males even kill the pubs a female she got from a rival. It came as a shock when I learned about this, but I get your point and agree with you that humans are more cruel and capable of egoistical and destructive actions than any other species.
 
If you approach it from a purely rational, scientific basis you'll get nowhere Cyrus. I know. I've tried. I'm not the only individual to experience love as a binding force. It's another realm beyond science. Your examining the goldfish bowl in which you live without realising there's a whole other world outside it. You will get nowhere doing that.
 
I agree Alex. I've experienced true love and it went beyond earthbound ideas of what love is. It felt like I'd been touched by the divine. Some things are, at least currently, beyond science.
 
Many things we perceive cannot be measured, colour, e.g. We believe we see a, say, green color, whereas in reality, it's light with some well defined wavelengths that enters our eyes, performs some chemical reactions and our biological computer (brain) presents it to us nicely in form of a colour. But there ain't really no colour outside there.
It's more of a problem than that. When you say, "our biological computer (brain) presents it to us", what is this "us"? Do you mean one part of the brain presents it to another part of the brain? That doesn't explain how the colour, or indeed anything at all, can be perceived.
 
True. Colors are interpretations of different wavelengths the brains makes, like sounds are interpretations of other wavelengths.
Art or music can be very touching still, and somehow, it is the fact that it is all just but wavelengths you can describe with formulas which makes me see it as even more of a miracle.
 
I agree Speedwell. Every time we have an inner dialogue who exactly are we talking to? This is one of the reasons I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. The 'us' that perceives takes input from the world and our minds....like a constant observer. Reincarnation indicates the physical body and brain are merely the vehicle to a spiritual passenger.
 
True. Colors are interpretations of different wavelengths the brains makes, like sounds are interpretations of other wavelengths.
Art or music can be very touching still, and somehow, it is the fact that it is all just but wavelengths you can describe with formulas which makes me see it as even more of a miracle.

Exactly.

And how else could you enjoy your favourite symphony if not through a material body your soul is incarnated into?
One of the reasons you were asking for in your initial (topic starter) question.
 
...That doesn't explain how the colour, or indeed anything at all, can be perceived.

Why?

One part of the brain can perfectly communicate with its other parts and exchange information with them - thats how it functions.
 
I agree Speedwell. Every time we have an inner dialogue who exactly are we talking to? This is one of the reasons I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. The 'us' that perceives takes input from the world and our minds....like a constant observer. Reincarnation indicates the physical body and brain are merely the vehicle to a spiritual passenger.

Then what would happen to a body with no soul incarnated into it? Will it possess an "ego" (or "us", if you prefer)?
 
Compare it to a suit Cyrus. It doesn't take life until you wear it. The real question is can a body survive without a soul?

Without a soul a body would be somnambulant. The lights are on but no ones home. It would be meat.
 
I was just wondering this, myself, last night. I mean, if our purpose is to constantly be learning new lessons, or repeating the old ones until we get them right, then obviously there is some kind of goal towards which we are working. When you go to school, the goal is to prepare you, socially and intellectually, for life in the grown-up world so you can get a job, get married, raise a family, go to college, blah-blah-blah, and hopefully contribute something reasonably useful to the lives of people you meet and not be a jerk to everyone. So what's the goal of reincarnation? What is this school of life preparing us FOR? Some say it is simply to become one with God, or the universal energy, or whatever you call it, so you just float around as part of a Borg-like collective, happy forevermore. There might be a more boring fate in existence somewhere, but if so, it's hard to imagine what it would be. Watching reruns of "Friends" for eternity, maybe.

One thing about reincarnation that always made sense to me, even before I actually believed it was possible, is that it's a lot like everything else in nature. Everything is recycled, right? A tree dies and falls down, and it rots and creates fertile soil for other organisms to grow. An animal dies to feed another animal that gives birth to offspring, so the energy of the animal that was eaten doesn't really disappear, it just takes another form. And the bones become food for beetles, ants, etc. Snow melts into rushing water that feeds into a river that keeps fishes, water birds, and plants alive. Salmon travel up a river to spawn, lay their eggs, and then die, and their bodies become food for scavengers. And so on. So, if we have a soul, why wouldn't it be recycled, too? Maybe that's the only point. We're just energy that will be endlessly recycled, like rotting leaves and animal carcasses, for all of eternity, and maybe that's the only lesson. Which sounds fatalistic, cynical, and depressing, but at least we'd be DOING things. And if we are allowed to make choices (the children in Carol's book seemed to indicate that this is the case), then maybe we can choose exciting lives if we want to. Do we get better at making choices as we go along? Like, "Man, that life was TOTALLY a drag, I died of dysentery in Sudan! SO not doing that again. I'm going to be a space adventurer next time around."
 
My life experience tells me that my higher self, guides, God, whoever designed my life tailored it specifically to my needs...not to my desires. Like the song says 'you can't always get what you want'...but in my experience I've gotten what I needed. Intelligence is at work here too, its also a property of creation. We are evolving in my opinion, not simply being recycled BrokenAgate.
 
Compare it to a suit Cyrus. It doesn't take life until you wear it. The real question is can a body survive without a soul?

Without a soul a body would be somnambulant. The lights are on but no ones home. It would be meat.

The apes do not look too somnambulant to me, when I watch them on TV.

By-the-by, by what means are immaterial souls coupled to their material bodies?

If an old friend of mine, currently not incarnated, acts as a kind of my Angelo Custode (Guardian Angel), can he touch me? Or, can he just "push" a little that blood clot in my vein, to save me from a heart attack?
 
I doubt having a soul is the sole preserve of humanity Cyrus. If man reincarnates why not apes?

The means by which souls are coupled to their bodies is unknown Cyrus and you know that. I've heard stories of souls being tethered to bodies but if your asking for a scientific explanation you won't get one. Man hasn't even discovered the existence of souls yet.
 
I've had some experience of the disincarnate affecting electrical appliances and such Cyrus so I would have to say yes, they can interact. As to why they don't do it more often your guess is as good as mine.
 
I've had some experience of the disincarnate affecting electrical appliances and such Cyrus so I would have to say yes, they can interact. As to why they don't do it more often your guess is as good as mine.

Thanks for your answer, Jim78.
 
By-the-by, by what means are immaterial souls coupled to their material bodies?

If an old friend of mine, currently not incarnated, acts as a kind of my Angelo Custode (Guardian Angel), can he touch me? Or, can he just "push" a little that blood clot in my vein, to save me from a heart attack?

Disclaimer: From what I understand so far ...
First, it seems spirits have different specialties. It may not be so easy to affect the material world without a physical avatar designed for the task, but it can be done and some put in the work to learn how. I think the advanced form of this skill led to the stories of angelic beings that manifest to converse or intervene, then vanish. Others can only "telepathically" link to aware embodied souls and direct events by creating hunches and such. Some might tip the odds of one thing happening over another, leading to synchronicity. So the answer to your questions is "it depends on his skill set." A "yes" is a definite possibility for both questions, and the history within mythology suggests that both have happened around the world.

Second, how we connect to the physical is basically via energy. We perceive limited bandwidths of energy within our human forms, but like the rainbow they are all "one" including those we can't sense while embodied. Bodies aren't just material. They are constructed of energy that is only sensed as tangible within a certain band of resonance. From what I understand, the physical body is structured to receive the higher level energy of our souls and transpose that information down to the level of resonance with the tangible avatar. This process leads to a feeling of disconnect because of the the intense focus within the physical on a specific bandwidth, but it's not an actual disconnect. The full spectrum remains present at all times. Where there is a physical presence of any kind the higher levels of energy are always intertwined even when we can't sense them.

Example: When you look through a microscope you may see a single cell. You might ask how that cell is affected or affects its organism, but to see that you'd have to zoom out a bit or look even closer. From the perspective of our spirits, our physical avatars perform a function along the lines of that microscope, only with many other sensors and interactive qualities giving us the chance to interact more easily on the physical bandwidth of energy.

If you ask why? Well, why do people play multiplayer role playing games? Why are we so fascinated with the idea of virtual reality? Why do we want to build robots and then control them with our minds?

I think the curiosity, invention, and imaginary worlds we are fascinated with as humans are a reflection of the attitude we have in spirit. Humanity seems to thrive on the enjoyment of exploring, experimenting, learning, challenging (self vs.whatever), creating, connecting, etc. It would not surprise me to find those same motives within our higher selves, just acting based on a larger scope of information.

Finally--back to the original topic--I don't think there is just one reason for us to participate in this physical life. Why would there need to be just one? Whatever reason makes the most sense to an individual is the only reason they really need, even if that explanation for physical existence feels pointless or out of control. Those of us who see life through a more optimistic lens can't force that view on anyone even if we think it will improve their experience significantly.

After all, we do get to choose the story we tell ourselves in order to cope with the vast number of influences we can't directly sense or explain.
 
Disclaimer: From what I understand so far ...
First, it seems spirits have different specialties. It may not be so easy to affect the material world without a physical avatar designed for the task, but it can be done and some put in the work to learn how. I think the advanced form of this skill led to the stories of angelic beings that manifest to converse or intervene, then vanish. Others can only "telepathically" link to aware embodied souls and direct events by creating hunches and such. Some might tip the odds of one thing happening over another, leading to synchronicity. So the answer to your questions is "it depends on his skill set." A "yes" is a definite possibility for both questions, and the history within mythology suggests that both have happened around the world.

Second, how we connect to the physical is basically via energy. We perceive limited bandwidths of energy within our human forms, but like the rainbow they are all "one" including those we can't sense while embodied. Bodies aren't just material. They are constructed of energy that is only sensed as tangible within a certain band of resonance. From what I understand, the physical body is structured to receive the higher level energy of our souls and transpose that information down to the level of resonance with the tangible avatar. This process leads to a feeling of disconnect because of the the intense focus within the physical on a specific bandwidth, but it's not an actual disconnect. The full spectrum remains present at all times. Where there is a physical presence of any kind the higher levels of energy are always intertwined even when we can't sense them.

Example: When you look through a microscope you may see a single cell. You might ask how that cell is affected or affects its organism, but to see that you'd have to zoom out a bit or look even closer. From the perspective of our spirits, our physical avatars perform a function along the lines of that microscope, only with many other sensors and interactive qualities giving us the chance to interact more easily on the physical bandwidth of energy.

If you ask why? Well, why do people play multiplayer role playing games? Why are we so fascinated with the idea of virtual reality? Why do we want to build robots and then control them with our minds?

I think the curiosity, invention, and imaginary worlds we are fascinated with as humans are a reflection of the attitude we have in spirit. Humanity seems to thrive on the enjoyment of exploring, experimenting, learning, challenging (self vs.whatever), creating, connecting, etc. It would not surprise me to find those same motives within our higher selves, just acting based on a larger scope of information.

Finally--back to the original topic--I don't think there is just one reason for us to participate in this physical life. Why would there need to be just one? Whatever reason makes the most sense to an individual is the only reason they really need, even if that explanation for physical existence feels pointless or out of control. Those of us who see life through a more optimistic lens can't force that view on anyone even if we think it will improve their experience significantly.

After all, we do get to choose the story we tell ourselves in order to cope with the vast number of influences we can't directly sense or explain.

Thank you, Mere Dreamer, for such a detailed answer.

Best Regards.
 
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