Group Karma - Plane Crashes

Hello Everybody,

If what Edgar Cayce says is true, we must assume that plane crashes are an example of Group Karma where whole groups of souls gather in one place to pay off their karma through sudden death. Possibly some of us are wondering if the recent Ethiopian Plane Crash was an example of this. I actually flew to and from Vancouver, Canada on this type of aircraft last month, the Boeing 737 Max 8, which gives me even more cause to think about this. Apparently Edgar Cayce states that we must "sow as we reap" unless we are rescued by The Law of Grace. The Law of Grace comes in when we have made positive changes in our lives that have put ourselves on a Higher Path. That is reassuring to know, that we could possibly escape our fate by changing ourselves. It still leaves me wondering about the fate of the small children who died on that crash who wouldn't have had time to put themselves on a Higher Path and would have seemingly had no choice but to "reap what they had sown" in a past they didn't remember. As of fifteen minutes ago Canada has grounded these aircraft as one of the last countries to do so in an effort to try and discover the cause.

Hello Ministargazer,

IMHO the Zen saying "No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place" is true. I had some experiences in the past that finally made me agree with this - perhaps, controversial sentence.

Peace,

IMO, these events are like giant ripples, they send out shockwaves which influence a multitude of events. It's not only the lives of those lost in a tragedy, but all the implications of such a tragedy. To understand the magnitude, and the infinite possibilities of each of those lives, plus the lives of those they knew and loved would take a super-conscious brain, one that I don't think any human on this Earth currently possesses.

The more I live, the more I have trouble seeing karma in the way most folks do. It's been my experience that things just happen in life. There is no grand justice system. We are the makers, creators, the justice keepers, the ones who do good, or do evil. It is our choice. Not God. None of those souls were being punished in any way or form. In tragedies, we just have to see the human loss, the grand sadness, and support those who are affected.

landsend said:

The more I live, the more I have trouble seeing karma in the way most folks do. It's been my experience that things just happen in life. There is no grand justice system. We are the makers, creators, the justice keepers, the ones who do good, or do evil. It is our choice. Not God. None of those souls were being punished in any way or form. In tragedies, we just have to see the human loss, the grand sadness, and support those who are affected.

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For years I had some idea or understanding of karma. Then I more or less removed that word, that concept from my thinking. If I ever think in terms of karma (which is not often) it is certainly quite far removed from the most usual ideas. Though I'm prepared to consider that there is something which we might label as cause and effect, that is about as far as I go, and I don't think I'd use the term 'karma' there because it would most likely be misleading, both to myself and to others.

I think I feel very uneasy about trying too hard to explain or understand these things. I've spent time reading various books and websites or listening to videos where sometimes there is, for my taste, rather too much self-assuredness in explaining "the way things are". I think I do need to leave room for allowing that I may be completely wrong.

Yes, I believe they could be, in some circumstances. In others, no, I don't think so. I don't think the question is as simple as a 'yes' or 'no' response.

When I saw this thread earlier, before I was able to write a response, I immediately thought of the private-plane crash that killed Audie Murphy and five others. Those who know Murphy's life will know that he had a sizeable gambling debt and addiction. He had his flaws later in life, likely as a result of his traumatic earlier years. But, were they enough to pay with his life? No. No, I don't believe they were. His karmic debt was surely not large enough to have him perish in a plane crash. Then, there were the other four passengers and the pilot. Were they such bad people to deserve the karmic retribution of a plane crash? I don't know. I don't know what they were like in their lives.

But, the question is 'could' plane crashes be group karma coming into play. Yes, they could. But, again, it's not a simple black-and-white discussion.

Tesso said:

Hello Ministargazer,

IMHO the Zen saying "No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place" is true. I had some experiences in the past that finally made me agree with this - perhaps, controversial sentence.

Peace,

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I tend to agree with you and Edgar Cayce, Tesso. If Edgar Cayce was wrong, then Paramahansa Yogananda was also wrong as he spoke at length about karma as well and advocated the use of certain astrological bangles that could to be worn to lessen the effect or avoid karma. I cannot find anywhere, anyone, who can explain how the Law of Grace intervenes in karma but it is touched upon in the Holy Bible and the reason why Grace would rescue certain souls and not others. If there is no logic to tragedies, then there is no logic to Life and no Plan and possibly no reason for reincarnating. Paying off karma, although harsh, is logical and gives a reason for reincarnating with hope for the future in terms of reaping the beneficial seeds of what one has sown and opportunity to progress even more. That is why, after I was assaulted by knife, I responded with a smile and attitude of forgiveness toward the attacker. I also remember saying to another I knew, "I'm glad it wasn't you that yielded the knife, but that it came through someone else." As an astrologer, seeing the directions of the planets, I knew it was coming. Karma explains the inner workings of one's astrology chart where some are born with a multitude of beneficial aspects and others come in with very difficult charts or the transits of the moment cause stress upon the natal, beneficial or not. I have to agree with the Hindu philosophy as it gives me the greatest comfort. I think the Creator would be willing and eager to answer all of our questions if we asked and as co-creators we should expect the answers (if we are prepared to receive the simple truth). Thanks for your comment.

I believe that karma is the effect of the thought-forms we, and our previous incarnations, created. Thought-forms are associated with their creators only (essences / souls), and have no effect on others (essences / souls).

Long term (over more than one generation) group karma would make some sense only if souls tended to reincarnate in the same earthly groups they previously lived in, which I don't believe to be the case. Short term group karma makes some sense only through the effect of the thought-forms we created during our current lives.

baro-san said:

I believe that karma is the effect of the thought-forms we, and our previous incarnations, created. Thought-forms are associated with their creators only (essences / souls), and have no effect on others (essences / souls).

Long term (over more than one generation) group karma would make some sense only if souls tended to reincarnate in the same earthly groups they previously lived in, which I don't believe to be the case. Short term group karma makes some sense only through the effect of the thought-forms we created during our current lives.

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Interesting theory, bar-san. In the end, as Paramahansa Yogananda said, "Truth and Law exist despite belief as the Law of Gravity existed before we discovered it." Can we then entertain the luxury of a belief in our search for the truth? Something to consider.

Ministargazer said:

Interesting theory, bar-san. In the end, as Paramahansa Yogananda said, "Truth and Law exist despite belief as the Law of Gravity existed before we discovered it." Can we then entertain the luxury of a belief in our search for the truth? Something to consider.

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I'd say that everything is "a belief", our own creation.