Of all the PLM cases I've read, the duration between the death of the previous personality and the birth of the child varies widely, as expected. In Eastern countries, it seems to be much shorter, ranging from less than a month at the low end (which seems to defy logic, given the requisite gestational period) to a few years on the high end, than in the West, where it skews higher to at least several years and often decades. However, almost all cases seem to have died within the past century or so, and while rarely you'll encounter one that stretches back up to a couple hundred years, there seems to be a hard cap somewhere around this point. Why do you all think this is? I'd like to hear some possible explanations. I always thought it would be extremely cool if a case popped up of a kid who had lived in an ancient civilization and knew some of the language, e.g. Egyptian; it would be an incredibly useful resource for historians and linguists, but it just doesn't seem to be possible. Why not? Is it simply that it is possible theoretically, but in practice, no one who decides to reincarnate ever waits that long to do so?
Why does there seem to be a "time limit" on PLM's?
- Thread starter Jack E
- Start date
Eva1942
A Walking Enigma...
You should research the case of Om Sety. She was a High Priestess in the reign of Pharaoh Seti I, which as (I was) his son in that lifetime, I would have known of her. She knew a lot about the Ancient Egyptian language and could speak it. Also she was very much involved in the restoration works of the Funerary Temple of Seti I in Abydos. In that lifetime, my Pharaoh “me” built the Temple of Osiris in Abydos as well. I think she passed away not that long ago.
In my first Ancient Egyptian lifetime, I came from Mitanni, which is Ancient Syria. I still after all these years hold a fondness for Syria, though the modern Syria is NOTHING how I remember it to be. However in this lifetime I have now, where I returned to in New Zealand, Te Reo Maōri sounds a lot like Hurrian (the National language of Mitanni). I can read a small amount of Akkadian and Ancient Egyptian. Also in that lifetime I was bi-lingual and spoke Egyptian too.
In my second lifetime as Pharaoh, I was in the Battle of Kaddesh (Qaddesh) and it then that the very first peace treaty was recorded by my Pharaoh self. So I kept my Syrian roots, even though I returned as Egyptian.
I could tell Egyptologists and archaeologists a lot about either of these lifetimes, but as soon as I’d mention that I knew of these places from a past life they would instantly dismiss it. Modern Egyptians and Egyptologists are very firm on what they believe we did back in Ancient Egypt and nothing will shake their firm beliefs.
In case you’re wondering this is what Hurrian sounds like:
And Ancient Egyptian:
As to how long PLM’s last... Why they are immortal just like us as a soul.
Eva x
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Hi Jack,
There are so many possible answers to your questions.
(1) In Eastern countries often the population is denser, much more people. So 'the flow' is more busy if you take into account that people want to reincarnate in groups, they want to meet the same people again.
(2) The Western countries have been less populated in the past centuries. Let's talk about Europe, cities from the past are called villages nowadays. Fewer opportunities to reincarnate quickly.
Another thing is that in Europe the economic, political, and cultural circumstances changed at high speed (in contrast to Eastern countries like India for example. For souls, it was interesting to be part of these changes, so I guess we had to queue for the next life.
Although in this life I am a Caucasian female, I don't identify myself with my current culture or upbring. I know I've been part of so many cultures and races and I still feel comfortable to tap in 'old energies' from all over the world, that people in this life often don't know how to identify me (despite my looks). My real soul friends in this life are also from all nationalities and races all over the world. I don't know why we all scattered in all directions.
From my own experiences, I know that I have gone through cycles. For example India. I must have lived there many, many times, different religions and castes. Until I was finished there, my cycle was completed and I went to another part of the World to start a new cycle of lives. I don't remember details and I think details are redundant at a certain point. They no longer serve the purpose of my Soul. But I didn't lose the Essence of the knowledge and experiences I lived there. I still carry a lot of Indian luggage in my spiritual backpack.
The same with a cycle of lives in Siberia/Mongolia. China. Indonesia. Latin America. Africa. And currently Europe. I don't know the exact order but I do know that before Europe, I had lived in Latin America (I know at least two distinct lives in Mexico). My Soul went to Europe to explore 'individualism' as something interesting. I tend to remember the lives of my current cycle best because those lines and challenges haven't been solved and closed yet.
****
I don't like to think in 'cases' when we talk about reincarnation. Building a case means proving something to someone else. To me, reincarnation is a highly individual and spiritual learning curve. Reincarnation is so much more than finding 'facts', although I admit it's fun to puzzle and reconstruct former lives.
Take a look at Shilo's Story for number (3)
Great theories, Firefly, about the east/west difference! Before we go further, I really do have a highly mechanistic outlook on reincarnation and PLM's; nothing I've read while lurking in this forum or in the literature provides any evidence otherwise. The only pattern in the process seems to be the high degree of personal choice professed by children who have between-life memories; other than that, there really does seem to be no method to the madness, from what I or anyone else can discern. It seems so mechanical as to almost just be an unremarkable part of the natural universe; I hesitate to even call it "supernatural". Just another phenomenon to be discovered and documented, and ideally, ultimately brought under our complete dominion and control. Your ideas about population and social tendencies, however, align with that pragmatism perfectly, so thanks!
I read the thread you linked and have a few comments. First is that he seems a bit old there to be just now spontaneously namifesting PLM's, although given the subject matter it's also possible he had just never encountered a stimulus that led to him talking about them before. Second, it seems to delve into some common conspiracy fare that could easily have come from media, but definitely couldn't have come from real life; he probably saw Ancient Aliens or something similar on TV at some point. I'm surprised at how much he seemed to know about Aboriginal culture (dreamtime, glyphs, etc), which suggests he probably did have an Aboriginal PL, but it need not be particularly old; maybe the story he told was a version of an Aboriginal myth, which seemed to be interlaced with the aforementioned conspiracy theories for some odd reason. I wouldn't know if there is an Aboriginal story similar to that out there, but if there is, I highly doubt it would involve the alien elements. Alternatively, or perhaps more likely, the machines and white people involve the encroachment of Australian migrant settlement on Aboriginal lands, which would probably put the PL in the 1800s. Overall, nothing definitively places it outside of modern times.
I read the thread you linked and have a few comments. First is that he seems a bit old there to be just now spontaneously namifesting PLM's, although given the subject matter it's also possible he had just never encountered a stimulus that led to him talking about them before. Second, it seems to delve into some common conspiracy fare that could easily have come from media, but definitely couldn't have come from real life; he probably saw Ancient Aliens or something similar on TV at some point. I'm surprised at how much he seemed to know about Aboriginal culture (dreamtime, glyphs, etc), which suggests he probably did have an Aboriginal PL, but it need not be particularly old; maybe the story he told was a version of an Aboriginal myth, which seemed to be interlaced with the aforementioned conspiracy theories for some odd reason. I wouldn't know if there is an Aboriginal story similar to that out there, but if there is, I highly doubt it would involve the alien elements. Alternatively, or perhaps more likely, the machines and white people involve the encroachment of Australian migrant settlement on Aboriginal lands, which would probably put the PL in the 1800s. Overall, nothing definitively places it outside of modern times.
Eva, you seem to be trying to convince me that the time limit I'm talking about doesn't exist at all. However, I've read hundreds of case reports by now, both here and in Stevenson/Tucker, and none of them go back more than a couple centuries. Now that you remind me, I have heard of Dorothy Eady; double checking that case, I find that it started off by quite unusual means. Receiving PLM's from a blow to the head sounds like the version you might find in Hollywood, not in real life. Not sure what to make of it, really. Blows to the head have been known to cause some strange behavior; just ask the guy who woke up from a coma speaking French and thinking he's Matthew McConaughey. Never heard of full-on PLM's starting that way, though.
As to the rest, I take it that you're referring to THE one and only Rameses II. How'd you land on him of all the possibilities?! I gotta wonder where all the millions of Egyptian peasants and slaves are these days, why does it always have to be the pharaohs? It seems no different to me than the question brought on by all the throngs of Napoleons, George Washingtons, Marie Antoinettes, and fittingly, Cleopatras out there... you know, the kind of conspicuous fakers who give reincarnation a bad name and make us all look unpresentable. And even if you've had the same memories since early childhood (somehow I doubt it, but correct me if you did), the conclusion of misidentification seems impossible to avoid here. Not trying to be antagonistic, but the rules thread does say that if you post something this in-your-face bold, you should expect to be... talked to about it. But that would sure be interesting if Rameses had PLM's of his own; maybe that wisdom is what allowed him to become "the greatest of the pharaohs"! Anyways, back to my point. I'm looking for a theoretical framework for the time-limit principle more than a refutation of it, because there's no solid evidence to deny it at this point; even PLM's from, say, medieval Europe seem nonexistent.
As to the rest, I take it that you're referring to THE one and only Rameses II. How'd you land on him of all the possibilities?! I gotta wonder where all the millions of Egyptian peasants and slaves are these days, why does it always have to be the pharaohs? It seems no different to me than the question brought on by all the throngs of Napoleons, George Washingtons, Marie Antoinettes, and fittingly, Cleopatras out there... you know, the kind of conspicuous fakers who give reincarnation a bad name and make us all look unpresentable. And even if you've had the same memories since early childhood (somehow I doubt it, but correct me if you did), the conclusion of misidentification seems impossible to avoid here. Not trying to be antagonistic, but the rules thread does say that if you post something this in-your-face bold, you should expect to be... talked to about it. But that would sure be interesting if Rameses had PLM's of his own; maybe that wisdom is what allowed him to become "the greatest of the pharaohs"! Anyways, back to my point. I'm looking for a theoretical framework for the time-limit principle more than a refutation of it, because there's no solid evidence to deny it at this point; even PLM's from, say, medieval Europe seem nonexistent.
Just my thoughts, but if we are reincarnated with our soul group and we deal with issues, problems and solve them over time, then it is probably the most recent one where we have the most recent unsolved problem - that will be ready to be solved in perhaps the present or the future life? Which is partly why we are connected to the most recent past life, but also because it "just happened", it is "fresh" in our memories, our latest clothes.
Li La
Li La
Eva1942
A Walking Enigma...
I’m not trying to convince anyone, I am just merely giving you my opinion
. We’re all different and hold different views.How did I land on HIM of all possibilities? In some memories, I was in a House of Eternity (tomb) burying someone and I was wearing a Nemes headdress(?) and I was completely heartbroken. I was able to identify this House of Eternity as Queen Nefertari’s because I did not see myself on these walls and Nefertari’s matches my memories. Also was able to recall one daughter’s name - Bint-Anath and also a son called Merentaph. These were Ramesses’s children as Merentaph succeeded Ramesses to the throne.
Some of us work our way down and repay Karma in different ways. I do have another reason, but that is wayyy not for the forum.
Yeah, I do know about these ‘falsies’. I am happy to talk about my FPL’s to those who ask, but other than that I don’t mention them because to me they are nothing special, even though I might be ‘famous’. Someone who has had a FPL does not go talking about it everywhere because well IMO, it is nothing special to them. It’s just another life they have lived somewhere. That’s how I feel.
I’ve had memories of Ancient Egypt since my adolescence. This was not your average fascination in Egypt, I “knew” things at the time Egyptologists did not. I am only just finding validation to things I knew when I was 14-15 (that’s about 18-19 years ago) because a lot has been done since then. Btw, here’s a picture of Bint-Anath in our local Ancient Egyptian room at the museum. I cried when I first saw it, and I had to touch it. Also there is a pillar from one of the temples there too. I touched it and was instantly saw myself transported back to Egypt in full royal regalia.
Why sure I don’t mind talking about it, I have nothing to hide
While I am not completely certain that what I “heard” was correct or even what I “felt” was correct, I know for sure that I was a Pharaoh’s son around the reigns of Seti I and Ramesses II. When I read about Seti I, I felt this disgust and anger, like I had to “prove” myself to him. That I m was worthy the possible successor after him. Also I “felt” that he was very hard on me. But when it came to research Seti’s death, I “felt” this intense sadness and hopelessness like I still longed for him to be there showing me what to do.Ugh, I hope this makes sense.
Eva x
Spirit Sword
Senior Member
I agree with Li La that the fact that many past life memories take place within the past few centuries is likely due to the fact that it was more recent, more pressing on the soul's subconscious if you will. But I believe it tends to vary on an individual's experiences. If there is unresolved trauma from centuries ago, it can still resurface, but since more time has passed since the event, there is a higher likelihood that the person in question has processed a similar event or found some way to overcome the trauma naturally. It could also depend on if a situation in the person's current lifetime brought memories of a pertinent past life situation to the surface.
Personally, I do not have any whole memories more recent than the 1700's. I have caught a two glimpses into more recent lifetimes, but nothing solid enough to work with. In fact, for years I had no memories of anything beyond the Medieval period in Europe. And I felt incredibly out of place when such a high percentage of the members here work only with things like World War II. But my soul's journey is different from theirs. I kept incredibly busy during the middle ages; it was the time I really shined, but it was also when I faced a good amount of tragedy and picked up some of the personality flaws and cyclical behaviors that I still struggle with today. I have not closed that chapter of my soul's journey yet, so I tend to relive older time periods.
And I can identify certain factors in my current life that helped to trigger more ancient memories. For example, I am at constant odds with my brother. We got along swimmingly as children, but it suddenly changed one day without reason. The two of us can hardly be in the same room together and if a family gathering goes by without a shouting match or the beginnings of physical violence, we consider ourselves lucky. I have met him in a previous lifetime where the two of us worked together until he decided suddenly that it would be fun to orchestrate my dramatic downfall and eventual death. That was eight-hundred years ago, but having him around again made those experiences more pertinent to my current life, which may be the reason why I remembered that lifetime first.
Personally, I do not have any whole memories more recent than the 1700's. I have caught a two glimpses into more recent lifetimes, but nothing solid enough to work with. In fact, for years I had no memories of anything beyond the Medieval period in Europe. And I felt incredibly out of place when such a high percentage of the members here work only with things like World War II. But my soul's journey is different from theirs. I kept incredibly busy during the middle ages; it was the time I really shined, but it was also when I faced a good amount of tragedy and picked up some of the personality flaws and cyclical behaviors that I still struggle with today. I have not closed that chapter of my soul's journey yet, so I tend to relive older time periods.
And I can identify certain factors in my current life that helped to trigger more ancient memories. For example, I am at constant odds with my brother. We got along swimmingly as children, but it suddenly changed one day without reason. The two of us can hardly be in the same room together and if a family gathering goes by without a shouting match or the beginnings of physical violence, we consider ourselves lucky. I have met him in a previous lifetime where the two of us worked together until he decided suddenly that it would be fun to orchestrate my dramatic downfall and eventual death. That was eight-hundred years ago, but having him around again made those experiences more pertinent to my current life, which may be the reason why I remembered that lifetime first.
Jack E,
As I understand it the time between (physical incarnations ) varies due to the souls stage of spiritual development as there needs to be time spent in between lifetimes in the higher dimension before taking on the flesh again. So while we are not physical we actually live out lifetimes on the higher dimensions as well. Because while we are in the physical we create not only physical karma but astral and mental karma as well. So after the physical lifetime is finished the soul will have it's life review from the higher self perspective and review where it had achieved spiritual development that it was aiming for or failed or missed opportunities it could have used but chose not to. After that stage of review is over then the soul will start off it's heaven life somewhere within one of the sub planes within the astral world depending on where it is at in terms of spiritual development.
This is were karma still continues working its self out but on a higher dimensional level of reality. So if the soul had hopes, dreams or desires say of a lofty in nature but not fulfilled or realized while on earth then karmic law demands that it must be realized on the higher dimensions. Here the soul can realized its dreams and joys to it's fullest potential depending on how much the mind set of that soul is capable of realizing. One this level of reality the soul works out it's emotional state of awareness from the lowest possible vibrations be it anger, fear, hate, addictions ect.. to joy, bliss, happiness, and unconditional love ect.. . Creativity on this level is unfolded many times over as the soul is no longer confined to physical laws like eating, sleeping, protecting itself from the elements, making money, gravity ect.. All these things are earth plane concerns that have fallen away now. The soul is now left with exploring its own true inner potential in expanding it's mind and creating new realities for the self while building old or new relationships with other souls either from the last lifetime lived or other souls it had known in past lifetimes long ago. This also holds true on the mental plane as well as it is here pure thought and mind occurs as the soul expands its mind to a cosmic consciousness level of being. So once all these states of being have been realized to their fullest potential in the higher worlds then the soul drops the mental body and transitions back in full consciousness on the causal/soul plane which is above time, space, matter and duality.
It is here where the soul will make that decision to take on the flesh again. And again this depends on that souls stage of spiritual development at that time. Souls that are not all that experience yet and are young in their state of consciousness tend to incarnate into the physical much sooner as they are seeking more experience here in the physical world which will aid and advance their spiritual development. So they need help from other souls that are more advance in terms of what will be best for their spiritual development. These tend to be souls that are either their guides, teachers, or other souls that are part of their soul group. Souls that are far more experienced and mature take much longer to incarnate because more time is needed to work out the details more as they are now capable of making these decisions on their own more or less in terms of what will aid them in their spiritual development in the new lifetime. Plus they also know what to except in terms of being physical which is quite a undertaking as being physical is a very challenging experience no matter what soul age or state of spiritual development one may be at.
Interesting note. linear time as we understand it is experienced differently on the higher dimensions then here. For example if a soul spent it's heaven life on the astral or mental planes the time it would perceive or experience there would seems like thousands if not millions of years have passed. Yet when the physical incarnation does occur finally here only a small amount of time has passed here be it 25 to 100 years of our time. Yet on the causal/soul plane there is no time as it is above duality. On that level of reality where all possible out comes, and realities all exist as a singularity. This is where the souls core of it's being actually dwells. In the eternal moment of the now. From souls perceptive there is no past nor no future there is only now. And since soul always lives in the moment of the now it already lives in eternity.
I have always found this interesting. Much like when we dream at night. While dreaming it seems like a long period of time as occurred yet when we awake only b 10 or 15 minutes that actually has passed.
Anyway thanks for asking the question. It was a good one.
Love an peace P.
Hm, I feel like I might've asked this question in the wrong place. All the answers here seem way overly complicated and not all that pertinent. As previously stated, after reading hundreds of PLM case reports between the Stevenson/Tucker books and this site, they never go back more than a few hundred years, but I've never seen an explanation of this pattern anywhere. So I'm basically asking someone to "explain it like I'm 5 and you're Ian Stevenson", and none of these responses really get at that, instead it all just seems superfluous. All this about trauma and lessons and development and karma and cycles and unresolved whatevers isn't making any sense, because none of that is why PLM's exist to begin with; they're just what happens when you reincarnate, because humans are good at remembering. I've never heard of any of this from a major reputable source, either directly from a PLM kid or someone who personally works with them like Ian/Jim. And then there's the fact that the vast majority of really good PLM cases only involve one PL, which the replies here don't seem to be considering. We're ignoring the fact that reincarnation isn't a highly complex system, it just works, which is central to the question at hand. Is there a better place to go to ask a question like this?
Eva1942
A Walking Enigma...
What is it that you actually want? You asked a question we answered it. We all summed it up pretty good, so what was so confusing about our replies?
Reincarnation is not straight forward and everyone has different teachings, views and perceptions, and perhaps you need to find your own way? Just because some of us have memories from thousands of years ago does not mean to say that we made them up.
Oy vey. I’m going to stop right there. I’m frustrated because you just literally dismissed all our opinions because “it’s not written in a book”.
Eva x
Reincarnation is not straight forward and everyone has different teachings, views and perceptions, and perhaps you need to find your own way? Just because some of us have memories from thousands of years ago does not mean to say that we made them up.
Oy vey. I’m going to stop right there. I’m frustrated because you just literally dismissed all our opinions because “it’s not written in a book”.
Eva x
Spirit Sword
Senior Member
I also do not know if you are reading a variety of books. If I recall correctly, Dr. Brian Weiss' books cover many of the topics we discussed here. For many people, past life memories are about unresolved issues and other negative factors nagging on the subconscious. This is why some therapists use past life regression therapy to help with issues like irrational phobias.
Your question seems to be most pertinent to one author's books and his approach. I might recommend emailing him directly if our group's combined experience does not cover or match with the material in his book.
Your question seems to be most pertinent to one author's books and his approach. I might recommend emailing him directly if our group's combined experience does not cover or match with the material in his book.
Hey Jack,
This is so logical. I would do exactly the same if I were a scientific investigator. I would just highlight the strongest cases from my research and I wouldn't contaminate this case with other past life memories from my subject. The fact they don't mention other former lives in a book, doesn't mean there were no memories or references of them during the investigation.
There is a difference between children and adults regarding past life memories. A child just talks and tells mostly factual things. Their current brain is too young for complex philosophy's about Life. Usually, they start talking spontaneously because past life therapists are very reluctant to 'work' with minors. They just refuse them, except on special occasions when the child suffers too much and therapy might be a solution.
Adults also get spontaneous memories, often because of triggers in daily life. That's completely different from the situations of kids. Adults do process the information, they filter the information. When adults go to therapy, it's because of a certain reason. Maybe curiosity, but often because of irrational fears that cannot be explained otherwise.
One of the reasons why I love to hang around on this forum is the opportunity to read and discover real past life story's from other people. Those stories are the 'real-deal' to me, not heavily redacted and edited stories from best-selling books. I've learned a lot here.
I still think you should make an appointment with a licensed past life therapist for a past life regression yourself. When you're serious about wanting to investigate past lives, it's obligated to experience this yourself, in my opinion. You make bold assumptions that indicate you don't know what you are talking about. No problem, just fix the problem.
Not trying to be stand-offish, just a bit overwhelmed with all this, I guess. I'm finding it all too difficult to understand compared with what I'm used to encountering in the field, which has been pretty straightforward and formulaic to this point. Apparently I inadvertently tapped into a wellspring of controversy, I should probably just give this one up before I accidentally perturb anyone again. Apologies, I'm new here and still figuring out how to navigate the community.
KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
If you consider that we reincarnate to work through "issues" each time, only the UN-resolved issues would be present, so as you progress, resolved things would drop away with only a few issues of that lifetime still being an issue would be remembered perhaps.
The forum lol, I'm not exactly sure what is popular or unpopular here yet, and definitely don't want to accidentally get myself suspended for something innocent that turns out to be heavily controversial, like this "time limit" observation appears to be. I expected to run into a lot of investigative research-minded types like myself here, but it doesn't seem that way. Is Ian Stevenson actually not well known/popular here? He was the preeminent writer and researcher on reincarnation, so I presumed he would be universally known and loved. His successor Jim Tucker is carrying on his work at UVA and doing great also. Again, just registered and still figuring everything out.
I see that the forum was apparently founded by Carol Bowman, who I don't know a ton about. I've read about Chase Bowman, who's a great case btw (albeit unsolved), and from what I can tell, it seems Carol is an innovative sort of "PLM-kid therapist", who helps children with phobias or other emotional problems stemming directly from PLM's overcome them and become comfortable with their memories. Is that about right? If so, that's another really interesting applied angle on the study of PLM's, and one I never thought of for some reason in my other comments, even though it intersects with my studies in psychology and seems like an obvious area of need after reading about it. I'd check her books out if I could find them, but my highly academic university library probably only has Stevenson and Tucker stuff (and I'm impressed that it even has them, lol). I'm guessing Carol's material is very popular here, and it seems highly in line with Stevenson's to me, just from an applied perspective rather than pure science. Anything else I need to know?
I see that the forum was apparently founded by Carol Bowman, who I don't know a ton about. I've read about Chase Bowman, who's a great case btw (albeit unsolved), and from what I can tell, it seems Carol is an innovative sort of "PLM-kid therapist", who helps children with phobias or other emotional problems stemming directly from PLM's overcome them and become comfortable with their memories. Is that about right? If so, that's another really interesting applied angle on the study of PLM's, and one I never thought of for some reason in my other comments, even though it intersects with my studies in psychology and seems like an obvious area of need after reading about it. I'd check her books out if I could find them, but my highly academic university library probably only has Stevenson and Tucker stuff (and I'm impressed that it even has them, lol). I'm guessing Carol's material is very popular here, and it seems highly in line with Stevenson's to me, just from an applied perspective rather than pure science. Anything else I need to know?
Eva1942
A Walking Enigma...
We’ve all done research but for our OWN memories, not someone else’s we’ve read in a book.
Personally, I prefer James Van Praagh. He wrote an excellent book which describes the soul’s journey called “Adventures of the Soul: Journeys through the Physical and Spiritual Dimensions”. It deals with possible aspect of what a soul is — including reincarnation.
Eva x
If serious research is your thing, I'd look at the work of Jim Matlock. He has both layman's and academic books, as well as offering a study course in reincarnation.
http://jamesgmatlock.com/
Course details:
http://jamesgmatlock.com/signs-of-reincarnation-course/
He is also approachable and may be able to offer some thoughts on the questions you have. Take a look at the facebook site, "Signs of Reincarnation" where he actively engages in discussions, as time permits.
See also youtube. His series with Jeffrey Mishlove are worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=james+g+matlock
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Jack E,
Sorry your so flustered with all this information. But the truth of the matter is the process of reincarnation is not straight forward or simply. In fact it's a very complex process that takes place within the higher dimensions of our universe on a soul level. Once we are here in the physical again it is hidden within the subconscious to protect the present personality being lived out from any harm both mental or emotional. And even though the vast majority of the human race as no memory of their PL the karmic effects still carry over and manifest themselves into the present lifetime being lived out. Although most of us are not conscious of this fact. Simply because karma is the law of physics in motion. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. This includes not only physical actions but thoughts, words, deeds and inner intent on the emotional and mental level. This universal law is built into the fabric of the lower worlds of duality in which we live in. However in my opinion it is used as a tool for the soul to know itself by it's own experience of trial and error.
Perhaps you should look at the forums section on this website under SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research here. Perhaps that would be a better fit for you in terms of what you are seeking answer for. However even though this is all interesting enough please know that the process of reincarnation does service a purpose. And perhaps that is what we should be more interested in. Yes it shows the soul (consciousness if you will) survives physical death. But what is the purpose to the process of reincarnation itself? Many cultures, and major religions around the world have their own view on the matter. Which is why it is a personal journey for everyone to discover for themselves.
Best of luck to you.
P.
I guess the difference is that I see the purpose of future PLM researchers and scientists as bringing a permanent golden era upon the world, one of complete and concrete knowledge of the afterlife, not as vindicators of already held beliefs. Utopia, to me, is a time when everything we once thought we knew about what happens when we die has been eradicated and replaced with discovered truths, no more mysterious than those of the physical world. Those who usher in that truth can be as iconoclastic as they need to be to ensconce it in the public conscience. By all accounts, that factual reality of the afterlife appears to involve reincarnation, and the tales told by those who've been there and come back are our only window into the nature of that reality, so their words will guide us toward that destiny. There seems to be a lot of sentiment here that these things are meant to remain obscure to the broader world, or that our lack of knowledge of the mechanisms of life and death is good, but as I see it, the endgame is to know, to reveal all, once and forever, and not to be denied by will of God or man.
John Tat
Senior Registered
I have said many times on the forum that from my experiences and knowledge about all of this ...most of what is out there and believed about all of this comes from the imaginations of man and over many generation's these things that came from the imaginations of man have developed/turned into some type of truths that could not be more wrong
I mostly have memories... I do know who some of the physical entities were my spiritual self occupied but they have no relevance to what is going on with me...Some of my memories are fleeting such as...I have a memory of being an infant child... all I wanted to do was talk and connect with those around me.. But I could not because the infant physical body would not allow me to ... I have plenty of these fleeting memories that mean very little.. I also have others that are not fleeting
I believe its important for Jack E to understand that through my meditations when I connected with my spiritual self I sometimes see new memories that were not know to me before,, So any belief that previous incarnation memories are somehow store in a new physical brain before birth is incorrect.. I can also say with complete confidence that if any machine could look at my spiritual self's previews incarnation memories that I now have they would have the exact same patterns as any other memory
Its also important to understand that the mechanisms used to record and store physical memory are very different to the mechanisms used to record an store spiritual memory.. that in itself creates a huge problem from a scientific standpoint
I could go and on for pages but I cannot be bothered that is enough
I mostly have memories... I do know who some of the physical entities were my spiritual self occupied but they have no relevance to what is going on with me...Some of my memories are fleeting such as...I have a memory of being an infant child... all I wanted to do was talk and connect with those around me.. But I could not because the infant physical body would not allow me to ... I have plenty of these fleeting memories that mean very little.. I also have others that are not fleeting
I believe its important for Jack E to understand that through my meditations when I connected with my spiritual self I sometimes see new memories that were not know to me before,, So any belief that previous incarnation memories are somehow store in a new physical brain before birth is incorrect.. I can also say with complete confidence that if any machine could look at my spiritual self's previews incarnation memories that I now have they would have the exact same patterns as any other memory
Its also important to understand that the mechanisms used to record and store physical memory are very different to the mechanisms used to record an store spiritual memory.. that in itself creates a huge problem from a scientific standpoint
I could go and on for pages but I cannot be bothered that is enough
You're an interesting guy
Maybe you are right in the broadest perspective. Maybe one day we'll be able to 'know' what happens on both sides of the veil.But, you know what the problem is? You try to discover to understand the hardware and the operating systems of Life.
The people on this forum are dealing with the software of Life. We try to understand the rules of our personal games.
These are two different levels that are not to be mixed or confused. It's different coding although it is supposed to work together in the Big System.
And maybe, maybe you're looking in the wrong direction with your honest intentions. If you want to understand the operating system of a computer, would you release statistics on the video games that people play?
Why do we play videogames? We are not forced to play, we just want to enjoy ourselves. We love to lose ourselves in them, identifying ourselves with our character interacting with other online players and shut off the outside world.
A lot of gamers know how to program as well. But when they are playing, they want the full experience of being in their game and nothing else.
This is what's happening in our Earthly lives as well. A lot of us Souls (maybe all of us) know how to program Life on a high soul level but while being human we forget because we came to play our game to the extreme.
I came to these conclusions by deduction and by a mystical experience in which my own role was explained to me by the Higher Self of a friend. I came to understand that I belong to a group of Creator Souls (programmers) and that living my life (lives) was just out of curiosity of how things work out in this world. The reason why I have a partial awareness of this process is that my feedback on Life instantly feeds the Higher Souls on the information. There is no separation between creating and creation, it goes on and on and on in the Moment.
So now that I know this, I decided to use my on/off button. Sometimes it's 'off' and I just live my life without much higher thoughts, just enjoying Life. Sometimes it's 'on' and I experience the flowing energies going up and down to my Higher Self and probably other Higher Selfs as well.
I'll be happy to answer your questions, John.
What is memory? What are memories? Memory is how neurons encode and store information for us to later be able to recall. The purpose of memory, of course, is that our ancestors evolved it because it is advantageous for survival; being able to remember where to find food or hide from a predator is generally a good idea. The hippocampus is the primary part of the brain active in memory; once a memory is encoded, which occurs whenever we pay attention to something unless some impairment is in play, it then spends time in a "consolidation" phase. No one really knows how long consolidation lasts, estimates range from days to months based on various data and measures. However, at all times during this phase, the memory is subject to permanent erasure, if it is deemed useless or expendable by the brain; most mundane events meet this fate, as there is only so much available space, so it is necessary to be selective. Once a memory is fully consolidated, it is mostly safe from loss barring brain damage, and is routed to various areas of the cerebral cortex depending on the modality; visual memories to the visual cortex, memories of thoughts to the prefrontal cortex, etc. Associations and pathways form between these brain areas to link the different aspects of one memory, so that when one is recalled, it usually triggers the whole experience.
Now, bringing PLM theory into the equation, it seems that at some unknown point in consolidation or permanent storage, at least some important memories are backed up in an immaterial medium that is indestructible and independent of the brain. Therefore, the death of the brain does not seem to effect them, and they can be carried seamlessly into a new brain and body. It is hard to comprehend the exact process that leads to this, but given the evidence, I cannot deny the reality of such a nonphysical memory bank. I think it's easy to compare to a computer; when you die, all your data is erased, like a computer's is when its hard drive breaks, but if you back up your computer's data to an external repository before that happens, you can retrieve it all again when you buy a new hard drive. For us, this immaterial backup is what we could call our soul. In reincarnation, the soul, when entering a new body, only has to implant its memories of the PL into the brain, and they are then consciously accessible in the new life, giving us what we observe in PLM children.
What triggers memories? Why/how do we remember them? One way for us to recall something is to do so voluntarily, if it is prominently accessible; for example, when needing to remember where one left a credit card, or how to spell a word in a spelling bee, we willfully and effortfully recall the information. The neural mechanisms of free will are not known, and many neuroscientists claim there is no free will at all, and all our actions are externally caused in some way; I am not one of those. Other methods of memory recall are cued, and the majority of child PLM cases begin this way. Most cues that trigger memories simply involve encountering a stimulus that serves as a reminder of a prior experience, and these reminders have the power to trigger anything from a very recent memory, to something you may not have recalled in many years, and forgot you even still remembered by that point. The great neuroscientist Wilder Penfield, a very big believer in reminders, hypothesized that our memory bank is in fact capacious enough to store every single relevant or unique event we've ever experienced, except for those in infancy, and if we encounter just the right reminder, any of these experiences can be spontaneously recalled. He came to this conclusion when he hooked up electrodes to the cortices of epileptic patients, trying to diagnose the location of the tissue causing their epilepsy. Sometimes, when Penfield sent a small charge through, the patient would report recalling a random, specific memory, often one so obscure that they had completely forgotten they had it. This led Penfield to infer that if such random, obscure memories persist so permanently, it is likely that all relevant events are stored, and that a precise reminder could produce the same effect as his electrodes did. Ever since his work, it has been agreed that our memory storage capacity is much greater than we once thought.
In the context of PLM's, most initial recall is cued. Since our brain prioritizes more salient and immediate information to be more easily recalled, and since it's been a few years since the child reincarnated, the PL memories are not usually at the front of the mind until they are externally triggered. That is not to say this is always the case; sometimes kids just start talking about PLM's as soon as they have the ability, and for no discernible reason other than to express themselves. Once the memories are at the forefront, however, they appear to behave like any other memory; the child almost always perceives an unbroken continuity between the memories of the present and previous lives, and they find nothing remarkable about them in most cases. Given these patterns, it's incredibly hard to deny that PLM's stem from the same source and feel the same to the child as any ordinary memory, and using neuroimaging to demonstrate they are of the same substance would only seal the deal. This is where I believe modern science and PLM theory intersect cleanly. Of course, if our current science is as valid as we hold it to be, everything that exists and is true ought to connect with it, and reincarnation is no exception to that.
tl;dr - Memory is the neurological process of encoding, consolidation, storage, and recollection, and primarily involves the hippocampus in the first two stages and the cerebral cortex in the last two. PLM's seem to involve some sort of subsequent backup to a nonphysical storage medium that persists beyond death, that being the soul.
Memories can be recalled voluntarily or by triggers, which usually consist of well-placed reminders that can spontaneously trigger even very obscure memories, and direct neuronal stimulation has also been proven to do the trick the same way. PLM's are mostly cued, but once recalled initially they can be voluntarily invoked like any other memory.
For once, I avoided saying anything contentious in this post!
What is memory? What are memories? Memory is how neurons encode and store information for us to later be able to recall. The purpose of memory, of course, is that our ancestors evolved it because it is advantageous for survival; being able to remember where to find food or hide from a predator is generally a good idea. The hippocampus is the primary part of the brain active in memory; once a memory is encoded, which occurs whenever we pay attention to something unless some impairment is in play, it then spends time in a "consolidation" phase. No one really knows how long consolidation lasts, estimates range from days to months based on various data and measures. However, at all times during this phase, the memory is subject to permanent erasure, if it is deemed useless or expendable by the brain; most mundane events meet this fate, as there is only so much available space, so it is necessary to be selective. Once a memory is fully consolidated, it is mostly safe from loss barring brain damage, and is routed to various areas of the cerebral cortex depending on the modality; visual memories to the visual cortex, memories of thoughts to the prefrontal cortex, etc. Associations and pathways form between these brain areas to link the different aspects of one memory, so that when one is recalled, it usually triggers the whole experience.
Now, bringing PLM theory into the equation, it seems that at some unknown point in consolidation or permanent storage, at least some important memories are backed up in an immaterial medium that is indestructible and independent of the brain. Therefore, the death of the brain does not seem to effect them, and they can be carried seamlessly into a new brain and body. It is hard to comprehend the exact process that leads to this, but given the evidence, I cannot deny the reality of such a nonphysical memory bank. I think it's easy to compare to a computer; when you die, all your data is erased, like a computer's is when its hard drive breaks, but if you back up your computer's data to an external repository before that happens, you can retrieve it all again when you buy a new hard drive. For us, this immaterial backup is what we could call our soul. In reincarnation, the soul, when entering a new body, only has to implant its memories of the PL into the brain, and they are then consciously accessible in the new life, giving us what we observe in PLM children.
What triggers memories? Why/how do we remember them? One way for us to recall something is to do so voluntarily, if it is prominently accessible; for example, when needing to remember where one left a credit card, or how to spell a word in a spelling bee, we willfully and effortfully recall the information. The neural mechanisms of free will are not known, and many neuroscientists claim there is no free will at all, and all our actions are externally caused in some way; I am not one of those. Other methods of memory recall are cued, and the majority of child PLM cases begin this way. Most cues that trigger memories simply involve encountering a stimulus that serves as a reminder of a prior experience, and these reminders have the power to trigger anything from a very recent memory, to something you may not have recalled in many years, and forgot you even still remembered by that point. The great neuroscientist Wilder Penfield, a very big believer in reminders, hypothesized that our memory bank is in fact capacious enough to store every single relevant or unique event we've ever experienced, except for those in infancy, and if we encounter just the right reminder, any of these experiences can be spontaneously recalled. He came to this conclusion when he hooked up electrodes to the cortices of epileptic patients, trying to diagnose the location of the tissue causing their epilepsy. Sometimes, when Penfield sent a small charge through, the patient would report recalling a random, specific memory, often one so obscure that they had completely forgotten they had it. This led Penfield to infer that if such random, obscure memories persist so permanently, it is likely that all relevant events are stored, and that a precise reminder could produce the same effect as his electrodes did. Ever since his work, it has been agreed that our memory storage capacity is much greater than we once thought.
In the context of PLM's, most initial recall is cued. Since our brain prioritizes more salient and immediate information to be more easily recalled, and since it's been a few years since the child reincarnated, the PL memories are not usually at the front of the mind until they are externally triggered. That is not to say this is always the case; sometimes kids just start talking about PLM's as soon as they have the ability, and for no discernible reason other than to express themselves. Once the memories are at the forefront, however, they appear to behave like any other memory; the child almost always perceives an unbroken continuity between the memories of the present and previous lives, and they find nothing remarkable about them in most cases. Given these patterns, it's incredibly hard to deny that PLM's stem from the same source and feel the same to the child as any ordinary memory, and using neuroimaging to demonstrate they are of the same substance would only seal the deal. This is where I believe modern science and PLM theory intersect cleanly. Of course, if our current science is as valid as we hold it to be, everything that exists and is true ought to connect with it, and reincarnation is no exception to that.
tl;dr - Memory is the neurological process of encoding, consolidation, storage, and recollection, and primarily involves the hippocampus in the first two stages and the cerebral cortex in the last two. PLM's seem to involve some sort of subsequent backup to a nonphysical storage medium that persists beyond death, that being the soul.
Memories can be recalled voluntarily or by triggers, which usually consist of well-placed reminders that can spontaneously trigger even very obscure memories, and direct neuronal stimulation has also been proven to do the trick the same way. PLM's are mostly cued, but once recalled initially they can be voluntarily invoked like any other memory.
For once, I avoided saying anything contentious in this post!
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi Jack E your post was great.. very scientific but great...yours comes from a scientific background mine mostly comes from what I have learnt/experienced myself ... I only went to 10th grade at school and have a reading disability that will not allow me to read and understand what I read at a level that would allow me to educated myself to a higher level For example your last post I went over it for half an hour and understood enough to get the gist of what you were talking about...That is why my beliefs and knowledge hardly ever aligns with what is out there
I have many doubts about the scientific approach to memory... OK you can set up your machines and do all the measurements but do those measurements tell you the real story of how it all works and happens? Apart from repetitive memory I don't think we have much memory at all... it is all very much blown out of all proportion Also memory is very flawed and in most cases is not a reliable e source of what happened. what we experience and we saw... Memories are the physical entities perceptions of what happened ... that's all they are.. not very scientific at all...again I could go on but I won't
All The Best
I have many doubts about the scientific approach to memory... OK you can set up your machines and do all the measurements but do those measurements tell you the real story of how it all works and happens? Apart from repetitive memory I don't think we have much memory at all... it is all very much blown out of all proportion Also memory is very flawed and in most cases is not a reliable e source of what happened. what we experience and we saw... Memories are the physical entities perceptions of what happened ... that's all they are.. not very scientific at all...again I could go on but I won't
All The Best
Mary H Kretzmann
New Member
Hi... The ancient teachings of India state that the time in the astral world is determined by the laws of karma in various ways. An advanced soul may choose to stay in the astral world for our equivalent of centuries. A soul who dies young, perhaps in a traumatic death, may feel "cheated" and will often choose to reincarnate quickly - to sort of pick up where they left off. These are generalizations. Paramhansa Yogananda said that souls are drawn into families by bonds of love or bonds of hate. Think about it - if you hate a person who has wronged you, they are on your mind even more than those you love. That creates a "magnet" of sorts to be drawn back together and learn the lessons needed.
I guess links are not allowed? Anyway - more can be learned from searching this chapter of the Autobiography of a Yogi: "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar "— Ananda
I guess links are not allowed? Anyway - more can be learned from searching this chapter of the Autobiography of a Yogi: "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar "— Ananda
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Hey Jack, it seems your time on this forum was not wasted. This is an interesting synthesis of several discussions here on the board.
John, you are right. Our memories simply need interpretation, just to create order in the chaos of 'facts'.
DearlittleMaria
Active Member
I know for me personally I died in 1918 but I came back in 1999. I think the wait period depends more on you than anything, if it is safe for you to return for example. I returned 100 years exactly since I was last born but 81 years after I died. I believe that somehow my spirit or whatever higher power there is did not believe that returning sooner would be safe because of the violence.