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Hi John,

I'm not sure what you mean by "opening a can of worms". You have repeated this same saying now, and I'm baffled as to what you're talking about? Nothing you have just said is that different from a number of things you have said over the years about traveling in the light. As a matter of fact, most of what you say on this topic seems to often just be a re-working of previously posted comments you have made, with maybe some new small detail added in. Nothing really that ground breaking as far as I can tell.

Do you think you are "opening a can of worms" because what you say may awaken the interest of others in some way, who will come swooping down on you to demand additional information? I can't see why. Nobody out there who is interested in getting to the stars is interested in this type of information. They are materialists and don't believe what you are saying because it contradicts their world view. The same is true of Egyptologists and other scientific types. Someone like Blueheart, who had some knowledge in that area, was interested because she also had some knowledge of reincarnation and possibly of other topics related to the gods and mysteries of ancient Egypt. However, if someone "out there" was interested in getting in on a conversation between two old guys on a reincarnation board they would have swooped in a long time ago. (That is just another reason to mourn Ken's passing, as he was the only other regular participant in our conversation--as you can see it is pretty much just me and you now).

In terms of our conversation, some new things do come out from time to time. I thought the memories that you posted not too long ago about coming out of Europe to Egypt and settling there with details (as much as could be recalled) about taking certain plants to advance mental capabilities, hunting with throwing sticks, the tremendous food resources found at the Nile, the importance of the right food for mother's milk and the importance of this to the tribes, meeting the sun gods and some of the ceremonies that took place presented new data. So, that was interesting as info that went beyond what you've previously spoken about. You actually don't do that extremely often.

Likewise, some of the things you have been saying recently about the sun gods, the false god and the creators break new ground. However, none of it opens a can of worms (whatever that means to you) as far as I can tell. As previously noted, no one else beyond members on this board has ever shown any interest in what is being said on this thread (as far as I can tell). And, I don't see why they would. They're too busy following the types of info they believe is relevant to their studies.

Do you mean that I will just get very curious if you talk about something new? I suppose that is true, but if I wasn't curious about new things we wouldn't be having a conversation.

Do you mean I might get very angry and pitch a fit of some kind? If so, I don't know why. We've been talking for years now and I'm pretty well immune to the things that you or BB have to say. I just take them as your/his particular viewpoint on things.

Do you mean that BB or the sun gods will be angry if you say more? If so, it would be easier to just say so rather than leaving me wondering if I'm messing up the conversation in some way.

Anyhow, you've got me scratching my head on this whole "can of worms" reference. o_O However, that is what I am perturbed about. Nothing you have said lately has driven me over the edge, just made me a bit more curious. Anyhow, going forward is up to you, not me. I'm just a curious listener who can occasionally provide outside information that you find useful in understanding things you've been shown. I cannot do that if I do not have information to work with. :cool:

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S It's very difficult to explain how things are for me.. As I have said before those who have little understandings of what happens to me .. in many cases they initially bring things I say back onto themselves and situations and also other people ..I'm not sure why they do that...As a result when I say something like "opening a can of worms" its initially bought back to themselves which must be for many reasons I don't understand.. then the go onto other reasons of why I may have said it.. This has happened with others other than yourself
'opening a can of worms" may mean only several things to you... but for me there are many many reasons... some very complicated reasons
I have no clues where the lines are drawn with BB about what I can and what I cannot talk about... which is just one can of worms .. I'm very sure its some form of test to see how much I understands and how much I don't as a result the lines to be drawn are left up to me... another can of worms... and on and on.. as I have said before I have my own ways of describing things which I know you and others have difficulty understanding
I went to my very limit and beyond last talking about travelling within the light so I did open a can of worms for myself in doing that.. It's interesting to me you thought there was nothing new in my last post which means you don't really understand anything I have talked about travelling within the light
The trouble is with this and other things there is so much out there I have great difficulty putting in its proper context and order what is more important ..for example.... travelling within the light or the creators? and on and on.. f
I was thinking about how you navigate within the light... I have visual memories of doing that.. A whole navigation system for interstellar travel within the light.. going from one highway of light to another and creating light within the light to reach a destination.. The final flight path to landing at a destination.. when you must create your own light for an exact landing place That is just one of hundreds of systems needed because humans will never event systems so complex that will allow them to travel to the stars
Systems must work how they are meant to in environments nobody on earth really knows what they are
All The Best PS light is the most stable and constant medium available for interstellar travel its the only way it can happen My gods have known that for millenniums
 
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Hi John,

You have questioned why BB does not give you a signal of whether you should speak or not in so many areas. You suspect he might be testing you. However, that is not what the facts you relate indicate to me. What they indicate to me is that it is unimportant to him. You are a valuable tool to be used once, and nothing more. Do not be insulted, I will explain this in more detail further down the page.

Anyhow, from what I can see, the things that have been important to BB so far have all related to your (a) suitability as a tool for a particular purpose, (b) teaching you what you need in order to accomplish that purpose, and (c) convincing you to do so.

(a) Your suitability relates both to your willingness to accept and to perform the program he has programmed you with. This was mostly already in place due to BBs presence inside you, some occult knowledge received from your NDE and other explorations thereafter, and your devotion to the sun gods. However, it also relates to your willingness to (as you have put it) cease to exist when your/BBs purpose is accomplished. This is a necessary prerequisite, and you have accepted this inevitability.

(b) You remember well your period of teaching and getting you ready for what BB wants you to do, so I will not go into that in further detail.

(c) In terms of convincing you to do what BB wants you to do, it didn't take much due to your devotion to the sun gods, but it did take some. He had to provide you with enough background information to convince you that the program he has given you was something you should do on behalf of the sun gods and that it was otherwise a "good" thing to do. BB has provided only enough detail to you to give you that particular background and strengthen your resolve. This is why you have gaps in terms of what he provides to you. Anything more is unnecessary for your planned use. He may, if you keep bothering him, provide a few additional facts in order to not be bothered, but that is just to keep you quiet and on track and only enough to make sure you do not waver and remain set on your current course.

If you think about it you will see that what I am saying is the sensible answer. You are soon going to die, and more than that --- cease to exist, and after that you will have nothing to do with what happens when--if BBs plans work out--the sun gods return. So, your education is only interesting to him and necessary to the extent it keeps you on course. In that respect you are like a guided missile programmed with a certain goal. Once you're made, programmed and launched all that is of concern is keeping the missile on course. It is a tool that is used once and disappears thereafter. Really, what would be the point in providing additional info to a tool of this type?

I have said that you should not be insulted on behalf of the sun gods, BB or yourself. The reason for this is that it has always been accounted an honor to be a "tool" in the hands of ones own "god(s)". It has also been accounted an honor to die for ones "god(s)". Dying for ones god(s) is generally referred to as martyrdom, and every jihadi murderer claims the title for himself in his own mind in order to blow himself up for his "god".

Of course, the test of whether one is a true martyr rather than an idiot is whether the "god" in question is a true god and what the "martyr" is doing is what the true god would truly want done. So, from your perspective, the jihadi who blows himself up is nothing like you. He doesn't serve a true god, and he isn't doing anything a true god would want him to do. He is, in fact, a murderous and misguided idiot. Logically, you would also see a Christian "martyr" as a misguided idiot. From your perspective, he/she is not serving a true god and not doing anything the "true" gods (which you believe are the sun gods) would want done.

However, there is another extremely important difference between you and any other person who claims to be a "martyr". They will lose their physical life but continue to exist after that. The Christian and Jihadi expects not only to continue to exist, but to go to Heaven. You will just cease to exist. As I have said, this is what I am sorry for. Even if everything you say is true you will not be around to see it or to see anything else for that matter. The rest of us will be around in one way or another, which I guess is lucky for us.

In conclusion, BB has no reason to speak up or intervene as long as you are on course and he sees no reason to provide additional guidance or info to strengthen your resolve or keep you on course. He would, of course, also speak up or intervene on behalf of the sun gods if he thought you were attacking their honor in some way--but you're definitely not going to do that anyway. Likewise, if you pester him long enough he may throw out a few tidbits--he probably doesn't want to be pestered and keeping you happy is part of keeping you on course. Otherwise, it is not important to him. Why should it be?

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi John,

I will add one more thing. Even a condemned criminal is entitled to a last meal and a last statement. In this case you are facing something even more final than physical death, and you are no criminal. I think you are entitled to know anything you want to know at this point in as much detail as you want. BB is truly asking you to make the ultimate sacrifice. He should be willing to do whatever you want to make you happy in the time you have left. This doesn't have anything to do with me, and we can close up the thread and otherwise close down our discussion as far as I'm concerned. This is for you. No one else comes into it and you need say nothing to me or anyone else. But I think you doggone well deserve to receive anything you want that BB can provide (in terms of information or otherwise). Frankly, I think it is the least he can do in return for the service you are about to provide.

Anyhow, that is the way I feel about the matter. I wish you wouldn't do it, but it seems like a shame that BB won't even open up fully when he's asking you to make such a sacrifice.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Excuse me, that I interrupt in here, with a prophane comment and question. I have to admit, I have not read through this whole tread, I have only been reading it sporadicly. I was at first quite shocked to read that John Tat was going to utimately end his existence in all possible ways there possibly are in what we call the creation/s. And I was thinking: Totally dyeing and ending his own self/being/existence - What a ting to do, in this world...

But then I have also been thinking; isnt this total end of existence something we all do, or will have to do at the very end of row of all our existances and incarnations.

And then, suppose your ending creates some kind of a vacuum or hole in the creation/s (universe/multiverse). And then, what was you, becomes this "sucking emptiness", that draws something else into that hole where you used to exist.

In this scenario, the self or the being, disapears without ever to be seen again. But is that even possible? How do we know "it" doesnt acctually pop up in a new place/multiverse somewhere else?

I know, this is all extreamly complicated thinking about existence, and what existence acctually is about. I know. But I belive that the concept of the ultimate end of existence, is kind of something we all live with, all the time. The possibility of total end, is a part of us (consciously or unconsciously) and follows us through our life - wheater we are religious/spiritual or not. We can be belivers in ethernal life, but we never know anything for sure. And this fact, that we acctually dont really know anything about death and resurrection, is with us every moment. Which means the possibility of total end of existence is always there for everybody. And to really face this non-existence, could be an important task to our selves. I dont know, but it could be, that the soul needs to experience the death of an atheist (who belives the physical death is the very end of existence). Is that a dreadful death? Or is it peaceful? Or none of them? I dont know. But maybe the soul seeks this knowlege (of the atheist-death) as well as the knowlege of the spirtual realms and ethernal life.
 
Hi Stewardess Ester Osz You made some very good and valid points....some I also have thought about over the years
IMO what is central to all of this is the reincarnation process
When we say and understand that it's not possible for us to be the only intelligent creatures in the universe....then we must go a step further and say and understand ... that it's not possible that our reincarnation process is the only one
When we understand that many questions are answered about our ultimate end in this our current process
I have talked before that at one point our reincarnation process was connected to other reincarnation process's... that's how it's meant to be...but those gates to the other reincarnation process's have been closed for physical millenniums
The gates will be open again and then things will go back to how they were always meant to be
Make no mistake John Tat will cease to exist in this our current process

All The Best
 
Hi Stewardess Ester Osz You made some very good and valid points....some I also have thought about over the years
IMO what is central to all of this is the reincarnation process
When we say and understand that it's not possible for us to be the only intelligent creatures in the universe....then we must go a step further and say and understand ... that it's not possible that our reincarnation process is the only one
When we understand that many questions are answered about our ultimate end in this our current process
I have talked before that at one point our reincarnation process was connected to other reincarnation process's... that's how it's meant to be...but those gates to the other reincarnation process's have been closed for physical millenniums
The gates will be open again and then things will go back to how they were always meant to be
Make no mistake John Tat will cease to exist in this our current process

All The Best

Thank you for this, John. I have another silly question. (Probably answered before in this tread, but I have not read through everything.) Does John tat acctually exist like a creation of god(s)? Or is he a creation of creation? For instance like you or BB created him, for the purpous of this project; to give him great insight into mysteries of creation and existence - and then end his existence.

Thus we can see this as some kind of divine project (just like the human life and crucifixion in flesh and blood, of Jesus Christ is a devine project for the purpous of salvation of humanity). But what is the purpous of the John tat - project? What or whom is his life and ultimate death going to serve?
 
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Hi John,

I think everyone on this board believes that there are other intelligent creatures in both the visible and invisible sides of the universe besides the human beings on this planet. This would include other intelligent physical beings on other planets somewhere. Most who read reincarnation literature also know that the research from a variety of reliable researchers contains accounts of incarnation to/from other intelligent creatures on other planets elsewhere. So, those doorways to incarnation between different planets/creatures have not been closed.

So far as I can tell, the only doorways that are closed are those that allow the sun gods to incarnate here (and that closure may also include their open followers). John Tat was not an open follower until recently. (BB has not been an "open" follower, but one in undercover stealth mode for millennia). This bar may also keep out other beings of the "sun god" type such as we discussed previously when discussing the Elohim.

So, whatever has happened was not something that, as far as I can tell, stops all the pathways between worlds or that closes off incarnation between worlds. It seems to be a particular and specific barring of the sun gods and possibly their more ardent followers. Whether other beings of the sun god type were also barred at the same time, I cannot definitively answer. However, I think so for reasons we can explore another time.

However, in keeping with my prior discussions regarding the Elohim, the divine council, and other pantheons of "gods" you may find the following site interesting. As it states: "A divine council is an assembly of deities over which a higher-level god presides." It basically covers the fact that the idea of divine councils for various pantheons was fairly universal in ancient times (including in ancient Egypt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council My operating hypothesis is that the Divine Council discussed in the Bible was basically a council comprised of the higher-level gods presiding over various sub-councils (pantheons) with the Highest and supreme God presiding.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Stewardess,

You should know that John is not, in the least, a believer in Jesus Christ or in his suffering and death as part of a plan for the salvation of humanity. He hates the God of Christians and the Bible and everything connected to him and considers him to be a "false god". John's efforts are aimed at bringing in the "sun gods" whom he considers to be the only true gods that were somehow locked out by actions of the "false god" of the Bible. John's ending is part of a plan to accomplish this. I find it all unutterably sad myself.

Cordially,
S&S
 
I find a portion of John's writing to echo some familiar ideas from elsewhere. For example,
https://michaelprescott.typepad.com...og/2020/05/pleroma-is-where-the-heart-is.html
Michael Prescott said:
As we've seen, the God worshiped throughout the Hebrew Bible is recast by Gnostics as the villain of the piece, a false god, an ignorant and malicious god, who wants to keep humanity in subjection, while the true God occupies an altogether different and infinitely more exalted sphere.
The echoing of some of the ideas in this thread seems very striking.

Of course these and related ideas are discussed at length in many other variations elsewhere.

I'll add that I take no particular position on these matters, I'm an outsider as it were, unattached.
 
Hi Speedwell,

There are some ideas that sound Gnostic. However, the Gnostics saw the God of the Old Testament as being a false god (the Demiurge or something similar) that kept the souls/spirits of men imprisoned in his evil physical universe. The God of Jesus Christ ("the Father") was seen as the true and loving God who through Jesus was helping to release us from this prison and the cruel reign of the Demiurge so that we could mount up . (The beliefs of the Cathars definitely had some Gnostic aspects).

However, unlike the Gnostics, John's beliefs don't make any distinction between the God of the Old Testament and the God/Jesus in the New Testament. All are fakers and usurpers who have stolen rule from the rightful and true gods: the sun gods of Ancient Egypt. Likewise, neither John nor the sun gods disdain physical creation as a prison. The sun gods want back in, to be able to rule again (over Egypt and probably everything else). And, I assume, to cast out the one(s) they consider to be usurper(s).

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hmm... The Sun Gods. They were thaught about and worshipped by several other peoples as well, not only the Egyptians - although they might have been the first. As the high civilization of Egypt went down, other and new tribes/peoples with connections to the Egyptian priesthood, continued the cult of the sun gods. Traces of the sun god cult, can even be found in the Bible (and in loads of antient mythology, fairytales and adventures all over the eurasian continent), specifically in the histories of Babylonia. And the infamous deity Baal, is acctually one of the sun gods, widely worshipped by several tribes all over the eurasian continent and the middle east. The same goes for the goddess Ishtar - originally a sun goddess, and widely worshipped all over the middle east and Europe, before it was christianed.

But what about Jesus, then? Is he the oposit of the sun gods? Well, its a long and complicated story, with a lot of threads in it, and Im not going to discuss them all here. But something important about the background of Jesus, that we do know as a fact, is that he did have connections to Egypt though his mothers family. And so did acctually also the whole of his mothers hometown, Nazareth, were he grew up, after returning from Egypt, were he resided during his first years. Now, there could be a lot to say about Jesus and the Egyptian connection to his background and family. But what is probably of more interest, is that parts of the antient pagan priesthood of Europe, that stood in tradition with the old Egyptian sun god cult, recognised Jesus Christ as the same sun god that they worshipped. These old pagan priests testimonials are recorded in historical scripts from the trials against them during the christening of the European tribes/nations, around year 900 and before. There is also worth to be aware that most of the antient sun-priesthood, was acctually sentenced to death by those church courts, and burned - despite their explicit recognition of Jesus Christ as the incarnation of the same sun god that this priesthood had worshipped for millenia.
 
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Hi .. Stewardess Ester Osz.... I'm not a student of religions and gods.. in fact before all of this began I had no interest in those things at all .. Almost everything I talk about has come from my connections to my pure spiritual self "BB" while meditating that is why most of what I talk about goes against many things that are out there and believed to be true.. As a result I'm not a student of my gods or Ancient Egypt or the times of BB's incarnations going back to Europe before my tribes migrated to Africa.. I'm a product of all of the incarnations BB has had.. who BB is and all of the knowledge that comes to me while meditating with BB from his incarnations and his connections to my gods
I think who I am .. offends some people (but I may be wrong)....As I have said many times before... it's very difficult talking about things that in many cases goes against what is out there and believed to be true.. Not only about my gods... how things evolved.. the arrival of the sun gods from the light of the second sun to the chosen tribes of the Nile but things like travelling within the light...Sometimes it feels like my head will explode knowing and understanding about many things I will never talk about.. Sometimes I can't help myself and I talk about things I should not.. opening a can of worms in my mind.... thankfully in nearly all of those cases nobody understood what I was talking about ..The questions you asked are not silly in any shape or form and I will do my best to answer them after thinking it through

All The Best
 
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Hi Stewardess I have thought it through about who John Tat is a creation off...There is only one answer John Tat is a creation of BB my pure spiritual self...who BB is a creation off is what matters Maybe we are all creations of our spiritual selves/souls/higher selves All The Best
 
Hi Stewardess I have thought it through about who John Tat is a creation off...There is only one answer John Tat is a creation of BB my pure spiritual self...who BB is a creation off is what matters Maybe we are all creations of our spiritual selves/souls/higher selves All The Best
Hm... If we were all creations of our own spiritual selves, then who would our spiritual selves be? One self, created by noone else than the self itself? Thats not logical, John.

And I still wonder what would be the logic behind John Tats ultimate death, that is soon to take place. What is it for?

Take care, John. Whatch out for those who call the good evil, and what is evil they call good. Its easy for smart people to be fooled by those entities (appearing to us in all kinds of clothing).

And what is good? How can we acctually distinguish good from evil? Only God is good. And the only source of what is good to us, is God. All what doesnt come from God is truly evil, as God is not the source of it, but Evil.

Stewardess E.
 
Hi Stewardess If you beleive a god is good who created a situation
where over the centuries Christians have murdered Christians in there millions I call that god evil a devil who disguises himself as a god My gods would never allow that to happen All The Best
 
Hi, folks !

Sorry for intromission.

What about an old idea that EVIL is an inevitable consequence of the God's decision to give man his free will?

So, it must have been a very uneasy decision.

"Then the devil took him into a high mountain and showed him the kingdoms of the world and said that he would give them to him if he would fall down and worship him. But Jesus said: Get thee hence, Satan. That’s the end of the story according to the good simple Matthew. But it wasn’t. The devil was sly and he came to Jesus once more and said: If thou wilt accept shame and disgrace, scourging, a crown of thorns and death on the cross thou shalt save the human race, for greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Jesus fell. The devil laughed till his sides ached, for he knew the evil men would commit in the name of their redeemer" (W.S.Maugham "The Razor's Edge").
 
Oh, what a tricky story from an autor I never heared of. But is there anybody at all who considers death as a shame and a disgrace to a person? If your mother died, would you say that she was a nice person but then, unfortunately, shame and disgrace took her?

Death is a natural part of life, to everybody. There are of corse shameful and disgraceful people on this planet, and that must be a heavy burden to bear. But to blame death for it, is a total misconception. Death is a passing over to the next stage. Its the natural end of your life here. But shame and disgrace, is the fruit of guilt. Which Jesus Christ didnt have. His death was no shame to him, as death is no shame to nobody.

Thats why we christians say that he who is ashamed of the cross, is already dead to his life. (Guilt, and the shame of it, takes the life of you. But death does not take your life, its only a passing to the next.)

So no, we dont consider death a shame or disgrace. Neither do any other religions. Perhaps atheism, that cannot really accept death, considers it as such. But atheism is, as we know, not a religion - its a political ideology evolved in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
 
Oh, what a tricky story from an autor I never heared of. But is there anybody at all who considers death as a shame and a disgrace to a person? If your mother died, would you say that she was a nice person but then, unfortunately, shame and disgrace took her?

Death is a natural part of life, to everybody. There are of corse shameful and disgraceful people on this planet, and that must be a heavy burden to bear. But to blame death for it, is a total misconception. Death is a passing over to the next stage. Its the natural end of your life here. But shame and disgrace, is the fruit of guilt. Which Jesus Christ didnt have. His death was no shame to him, as death is no shame to nobody.

Thats why we christians say that he who is ashamed of the cross, is already dead to his life. (Guilt, and the shame of it, takes the life of you. But death does not take your life, its only a passing to the next.)

So no, we dont consider death a shame or disgrace. Neither do any other religions. Perhaps atheism, that cannot really accept death, considers it as such. But atheism is, as we know, not a religion - its a political ideology evolved in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.

No comments.
 
Hi John,

There is some wisdom in 951, but none in 953. The latter is a throw-back to the kind of rants you were prone to years ago in our conversations. I'm too bored with it to spend any more time on that kind of thing, having spent far too much time on it years ago. Anyhow, 951 touches on some great truths, but I'll leave you to elaborate before I try to give you my "take" on the matter.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Cyrus,

Good source material, but I can't agree with the "Jesus fell" part of the quote. However, I definitely agree that men have committed evil "in the name of their redeemer." I think John is naive to assume, or possibly forgetful to assert, that men did not commit evil in the name of the Egyptian gods. Evil and/or misguided people have always done evil in the name of their gods--Egyptian or otherwise. This only goes to show that religion along with politics, money, power, etc. can form the basis for evil actions by those so disposed.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Cyrus, ... I can't agree with the "Jesus fell" part of the quote...

Well, S&S,

Maybe this should be read in the context of a temptation.

Namely, Jesus was tempted 3 times by Satan, and refused each one of those temptations

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4:1-11&version=NKJV

but when tempted by the devil for the fourth time, could not resist and ACCEDED to that last temptation (accepted it, agreed to it, was seduced by it).

In English - I guess, though English is not my mother tongue - this can also be said as 'FELL into the temptation', it's just a synonym.

In Spanish e.g., the same verb 'to fall' = 'caer' is used, too - 'Cayó en la tentación' .

Best regards.
 
Hi Stewardess If you beleive a god is good who created a situation
where over the centuries Christians have murdered Christians in there millions I call that god evil a devil who disguises himself as a god My gods would never allow that to happen All The Best
We are all murdered by evil, and resurrected by god. Your own evil, and/or other peoples evil is what kills you. This is the process. But if your gods would not aloud the evil to happen (if I get you right) why does it happen anyway? They are powerless to stop evil from happening.
 
Hi Cyrus,

Actually, I disagree with the entire premise. I have read the accounts of Christ's "3" temptations many times and the New Testament many times (and I'm in the process of another re-read at this time). There is no indication of a fourth temptation by the devil at the time of the other 3. There is an indication that, in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus struggled with himself and prayed that "this cup" (his crucifixion) might pass from him, but also that God's will be done in the matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agony_in_the_Garden I don't see this as a temptation by the devil--nor is it presented as such. Likewise, I don't see this as a "temptation" to die as mankind's redeemer, but (if anything) the opposite. Dying on the cross as mankind's redeemer was part of his "job" in coming here. The agony in the garden is the agony of facing the anguish in his immediate future--including perhaps the alienation from the Father that it entailed--and going forward with it. In other words, I am not aware of any fact presented in any narrative that supports the idea of a "fourth" temptation by the devil. If anything, the "temptation" was to not go forward with the crucifixion and complete the redemption, not the opposite.

Anyhow, authors and poets sometimes take liberties for the sake of making a valuable point. This is one of those times in my opinion.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Your English is excellent. It may not be your first language, but your command of the language is very good.
PPS--I'd usually not cite to Wikipedia on a point like this, but I'm feeling too lazy at the moment to look up the verses myself. o_O
 
Hi Cyrus,

Actually, I disagree with the entire premise. I have read the accounts of Christ's "3" temptations many times and the New Testament many times (and I'm in the process of another re-read at this time). There is no indication of a fourth temptation by the devil at the time of the other 3. There is an indication that, in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus struggled with himself and prayed that "this cup" (his crucifixion) might pass from him, but also that God's will be done in the matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agony_in_the_Garden I don't see this as a temptation by the devil--nor is it presented as such. Likewise, I don't see this as a "temptation" to die as mankind's redeemer, but (if anything) the opposite. Dying on the cross as mankind's redeemer was part of his "job" in coming here. The agony in the garden is the agony of facing the anguish in his immediate future--including perhaps the alienation from the Father that it entailed--and going forward with it. In other words, I am not aware of any fact presented in any narrative that supports the idea of a "fourth" temptation by the devil. If anything, the "temptation" was to not go forward with the crucifixion and complete the redemption, not the opposite.

Anyhow, authors and poets sometimes take liberties for the sake of making a valuable point. This is one of those times in my opinion.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Your English is excellent. It may not be your first language, but your command of the language is very good.
PPS--I'd usually not cite to Wikipedia on a point like this, but I'm feeling too lazy at the moment to look up the verses myself. o_O

Hi, S&S:

Of course there has never been any 4th temptation of Jesus, W.S.Maugham invented it to illustrate some ideas he wanted to convey in his book, namely, in a situation when a young man returned from the WWI with a trauma of having been present at the death of his best friends there, well, this boy wanted to sacrifice himself by marrying a schoolfriend that went all to pieces after having lost her husband and a child in a car crash, and became a drunken slut in the worst reputated quarter of Paris.

Just that.

And thanks for so generous evaluation of my English. I learned it when I was crazy for the Beatles - a good many years ago, and knew by heart the texts of most of their songs. I think I know better the text of that famous rock opera "Jesus Christ Superstar", than the Gospel itself.

Best wishes.

Cyrus.
 
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Hi S&S I have said many times my gods the only true gods have never claimed to be creators.. no matter how it has been spun by the experts in Ancient Egypt... My gods rose from the lifeless waters of chaos to bring balance,, just as they will again.. The experts are not as expert as they think... never have been.. so I will explain something to them...lifeless waters means ..without gods.. my gods rose from a time where there were no gods.. just as there is now... Chaos existed because there was something there that had already been created.... Chaos cannot exist within nothing
As I have said before the creators create not the gods... the gods have created nothing... no gods can create from nothing .. they can work within creation but they do not create on the same level
I will explain... An artist paints a painting .. from his imagination he creates an image.. He is not a creator as in the creators but that does not stop him creating on a different level within the creations of the creators
This is where everything has gone haywire when people talk about the creations of the gods
The same applies to BB and John Tat.. like the artist who created an image .. BB my pure spiritual self created John Tat... an entity he needs to survive and return to physical form next time

All The Best
 
Hi John,

The natural world seems to have been finished when the sun gods arrived.

From what I can tell, their mission and actions were solely dedicated to taking a single people group (the tribes) and forming them into a great civilization--the civilization of Ancient Egypt. So, they appear to be creators of civilization rather than creators of the natural world with all of its features, plants, animals, and humans.

You also seem to deny that the sun gods were the same group of "gods" (under different names) that were instrumental in the formation of other great ancient civilizations. So, if you have any idea on how these other civilizations with their "gods" came to be that would be interesting.

In terms of creators, you say nothing about who created the universe, natural world, etc. or about who created the sun gods or how they otherwise came to be, though this thread has gotten so long it may be that you said something in the past that I have forgotten. So, more on all of these subjects would likewise be welcome.

However, most important by far, I'd definitely like to know more about the creators.

On the relationship of BB to John Tat, I have nothing more to ask or add at the moment.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi John,

I continue to learn more about the "war" in heaven (though it seems more like a "dispute" or "rebellion" being acted out here in the material universe via proxies to me). I also recall some mention from BB that the "North" has a special significance. I will write more on both at some point.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S When you talk about a war in "heaven" which is the truth other than the word "heaven" .. As you know I'm fully aware of a war between the gods but the beliefs that it happened in a place called heaven are wrong.. I don't want to be disrespectful but there is no heaven.. Even if there was a mystical heaven such a brutal war could never have happened within the mystical beliefs of what heaven is
We look at a map of the world and see our place in it
The gods look at a map that embraces everything and see there place in it
A dispute/rebellion being acted out here in the material universe is all about where the gods see there place is within that
Nothing lasts forever

All The Best
 
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Hi John,

Actually, you're mostly correct (from my perspective) in terms of a war in heaven. I'm actually speaking about disputes between "heavenly" beings (Elohim or "gods") in human history, and probably made a poor word choice. I don't know what may have happened elsewhere in the universe, but in regard to this planet, the conflict appears to have been mostly waged via surrogates in the physical plane on the surface of this planet. From what I can tell it is only recently that it resulted in the expulsion of the enemy Elohim in a significant way from the heavens--which I take to refer to higher planes associated with this planet (and possibly other planets as well). This would be only about 2000 years ago which I believe is when the sun gods lost access to the reincarnation process.

So, I would not expect BB to know anything about it as he had long since gone into "hibernation". I also believe there are even higher planes than the one(s) from which this expulsion took place--the mystical and peaceful heavens you mention. These would be domains of which BB most likely never knew anything and cannot tell you anything.

Hmmm. I may be incorrect in terms of the time when the sun gods lost access to the reincarnation process. Actually, the fact that BB does know about the sun gods losing access to the reincarnation process seems to indicate that this took place before he went into his long "hibernation". Otherwise, how would he know about it?

Cordially,
S&S
 
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