• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

What is the truth about reincarnation?

John Tat

John Tat

Senior Registered
Hi
This is my first post since joining the forum One of the reasons I joined was to share with you what I believe is the truth about reincarnation. As you would all know its difficult to have any meaningful discussion with family and friends who are sceptical about reincarnation . Things have happened during my life that have lead me to what I believe is the truth about reincarnation. I'm not saying I'm right but for me it is the truth. The real truth is different to what the traditional beliefs are. They are best described in the following manner.
When you are living in this live and if after you die there is another person at another time who in the judgments of experts and scientists is a reincarnation of you, then what would that mean to you? As far as I can see the traditional believer's never or rarely consider this question, which is the most important of all questions when considering the likelihood of reincarnation. Another significant question is, would you be aware you had reincarnated just as the experts and scientists believed you had? or would John Smith the physical identity who believes he is a reincarnation of you be the only identity aware of the reincarnation?
If that is what happens then the question that must be answered is who then is John Smith? Is he John Smith or is he John Brown the reincarnation of you?
If John Smith does have genuine memories of you then that would only be possible if you were aware you had reincarnated. The proof that is correct is that memories do not float around in space. They must be stored for recall at another time. So if you were not aware you had reincarnated how could your memories be recalled by John Smith? You would have either reincarnated or you had not. That is the point.
The trouble is it's impossible for there to be two separate memories of the one identity. Two separate identities cannot say, I'm John Brown but I'm also John Smith and for John Smith to say I'm John Smith but I'm also John Brown all at the same time. That's impossible.. I don't think the traditional believers give much thought to what happened to John Brown during the dying process, and what happened to him after his death.
Reincarnation revolves around John Brown not John Smith. The truth is reincarnation is a one way street. That in my opinion is the fatal flaw in the traditional beliefs
Reincarnation the same as everything else in the universe must move forward. John Brown goes from this incarnation to the next then to the next and so on. The same as everything else reincarnation does not stop then go backwards. In other words for reincarnation to move forwards it cannot stop then look backwards and say that is who I once was. Reincarnation does not happen that way. It defies all logic and how everything else in the universe evolves. There is only forward movement and John Brown is the only entity aware of what is going on
That's why there is no substantial proof John Smith has any memories of a previous life
I understand that it would be difficult to comprehend how and why your physical live is a reincarnation for John Brown and not you of him. That gets some getting used to.
The above is what I believe is the truth about reincarnation. As I said I'm not saying I'm right, but for me it is the truth

Regards

John tat
 
I would like to welcome you to the forum, John Tat. We welcome honest discussion. I can't comment on your post, because I have to reread it, and think about what you said for a while. Do you believe in the possibility of reincarnation in a general way?
 
Hi


Yes I'm an absolute believer in reincarnation. My question is what is the truth on how it happens. The truthful answer for me is that we are reincarnations for the John Brown's, not us of them
 
Are you saying that time moves forward, not the reverse, so we don't incarnate backwards in time? I'm sorry if I sound obtuse - I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.
 
John Tat said:
...If that is what happens then the question that must be answered is who then is John Smith? Is he John Smith or is he John Brown the reincarnation of you?
...


Reincarnation revolves around John Brown not John Smith. The truth is reincarnation is a one way street. That in my opinion is the fatal flaw in the traditional beliefs


Reincarnation the same as everything else in the universe must move forward. John Brown goes from this incarnation to the next then to the next and so on. The same as everything else reincarnation does not stop then go backwards. In other words for reincarnation to move forwards it cannot stop then look backwards and say that is who I once was...
Click to expand...
Hi John Tat.


Welcome to the forum.


Yes. I agree. It's confusing. It goes against a lot of the things that we have learned about time, about reality, about life and about a lot of stuff. It's complicated and nobody has all the answers (not even me).


The way I make sense of it sometimes is to think about movies and plays and actors. Say (just for example) Brad Pitt is playing a part in a film. The story of the film is a true story from someone (else's) real life history. Brad is an actor. He learns his lines. He does the movie like the consumate professional that he is. He does a good job. Everyone pats him on the back then he goes home to his wife and kids. That is his reality.


His 'fans' watch the movie. They enjoy it. They know it is Brad Pitt (the actor) but they still get caught up in the story he is portraying, which might be a story of the present day or a story from the past or the future... Fantasy, sci-fi, action, historical, comedy, drama... It's all the same if it's a good story and also, it's 'Brad!' so, what's not to like?.


How do we 'compute' this time confusion? Is it 'Brad Pitt' in the story or his character? What is fantasy and what is reality? When is this all taking place....? Now, or in the past? A year ago when he made the film or 'now' while I watch it in the cinema? Does it matter?


It is only confusing if you want it to be. Inside is an inherent logic which makes sense if you have all the pieces to hand.
 
BriarRose said:
Are you saying that time moves forward, not the reverse, so we don't incarnate backwards in time? I'm sorry if I sound obtuse - I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.
Click to expand...
I understand its difficult to understand what I'm talking about. It's complicated and difficult to explain. I will do my best


If you believe as I do the purpose for reincarnation is the ongoing education and the gaining of knowledge of an entity then there must be forward movement of that entity on its journey of gaining that knowledge and education. Looking back at what has already been leant does not happen for John Brown the reincarnating entity. Only the John Smiths looking for answers about themselves do that. Only John Brown is aware of what is going on. It's all very difficult to explain. To understand something then to try and put that understanding into words is difficult for me.


It requires a whole new understanding about what reincarnation is and its purpose. Interestingly it answers the question of what is the point in living this life and gaining all of this knowledge then dying. John Brown doesn't die he continues his journey. We die
 
John, are you saying that we are "aware", because we look for answers, but the original entity, the soul, isn't? I do believe we make forward progress, and the purpose of reincarnation is education for the soul, among other things. We have had debate about that on the forum. Opinions differ. Do you have memories of past lives yourself?
 
`I'm just an ordinary average guy who all of a sudden out of the blue had this understanding about reincarnation. It just happened


I now know I do not have the energy or capacity to unable me to communicate all of my understandings in a proper and correct manner


To understand with little or no previous knowledge or education about reincarnation makes it doubly difficult for me to communicate


I also now know to understand is totally different to knowledge acquired through the learning process. I spent two to three hours today trying to put together some of my understandings in a manner you could understand and I failed to do that.You reactions and questions to what I have said reinforces to me my lack of knowledge on the subject. Over the next two or three days I will work on and off on a communication to you that will be best I can do. If you could let me know what you want answers to and I will do my best. Everything I have communicated comes from my understanding not from any real knowledge


I'm beginning to think understanding is far more powerful than the knowledge itself. Would you agree or not?


I always thought understanding came through knowledge. I now know that is not correct
 
John Tat said:
I always thought understanding came through knowledge. I now know that is not correct
Click to expand...
I believe it depends on what you are trying to learn...the acquisition of knowledge is universally considered necessary for understanding, and understanding without knowledge bespeaks an alternate definition of "understanding". Full understanding without knowledge is a rare bird indeed and you are fortunate to have obtained it. I look forward to reading your efforts to further explain your understanding.
 
I think it's wonderful that you have this understanding, and that you want to share it. :) When one person grows in understanding, and shares it, we all grow. Please continue to post, and on the open forum. Do you have questions for us? It's hard to have understanding of reincarnation, because it's hard to find two people who agree on the mechanics of it, and that is what you are trying to explain. We have personal experience, and many of us read a lot on the subject, but there are always gaps in our understanding. These ideas aren't easy to express, and you are not an "ordinary" guy. If you were, you wouldn't be thinking about this subject!
 
This is the "open forum", John. Some people belong to social groups that share a particular interest. Members often send Private Message to each other, if something is personal, or they share a special interest. Post what you want here! :)
 
Some of what I talk about may appear to have nothing to do with reincarnation. I believe everything below relates to reincarnation


I feel totally out of my depth talking about this subject. I have no real knowledge about it, and what I have to say is different


Firstly the term soul is wrong. That definition infers they are spiritual which they are not . I call all souls Billy to eliminate all references that they are or may be spiritual.


We cannot teach or educate Billy about anything. He does that himself. That's not exactly right, but it is the best I can do. One of the reasons I say that is Billy already had/has vast amounts of knowledge


We are three separate identities in one. There is Billy. our pure identity and awareness and our physical identity and awareness


They are important in understanding how reincarnation works


Your pure identity and awareness is everything you are that is not physical It is the real and pure you. Your physical identity is moulded by your environment. The country you live in your family and friends the work you do and so on. What is ignored by most are by far the biggest contributors to your physical identity and they both your brain chemical and hormone levels. Different to the pure you, your physical identity is far from being pure. These brain chemical and hormone levels within the physical body drives who and what the physical identity really is. They cannot possibly reincarnate. So what are those who are searching for a previous physical them really looking for? The structures allows Billy through the pure identity and awareness and then onto the physical brain to have limited access to us, just enough to get us by. Everything from Billy goes through the pure identity and awareness first and then onto the physical brain. That also happens in reverse. It goes from the physical brain through the pure identity and awareness and then onto Billy. During these processes the pure identity and awareness memory accumulates huge amounts of knowledge and memory, They physical brain has its own processes and methods of working everything out. After the physical brain has processed the knowledge and information and worked everything out they are sent back to the pure identity and awareness so they can be stored in a manner that they can be recalled by another physical brain at another time if that is required. Reincarnating pure identity and awareness's have huge amounts of memory and knowledge which they bring to new physical bodies. Those pure identities and awareness's are the John Browns I was talking about. I will talk about them later


Reincarnation is rare. Not many pure identities and awareness's reincarnate. If they all reincarnated the structures would be chaotic. The structures keep strict control over the numbers. It's the pure identity and awareness and it's memory that gives the true meaning to the reincarnation of an identity


It may be somewhat confusing to say all the Billy's reincarnate , which they do. Well most do. The rogue Billy's are eliminated as they move through the structures after the death of there last physical body


Although they are one of our three separate identies they are not overly involved in the activities of the pure and physical identies. These are the things that are very difficult for me to explain. The best I can think of is, Billy is the CEO and the pure identity is the general manger and the physical identity does the best it can. It depends on how disciplined the physical brain is and how it performs which Billy and the pure identity have no control over determines how much help and guidance it will get


Billy has no emotions, feelings or compassion. they are all generated by the physical body which he has no connection to. His only connection is to the pure identity and awareness. It is the same as you cannot have memory unless you have a physical body to re experience the memories you have. That not only eliminates any possibility that a fictional spiritual you has memory, but it is also very important for the recall of pure identity and awareness memory. Both these are far to complicated and complex issues for me to even begin to know how to explain what they are and how they work.


Everything about you that is physical dies with physical body. If nothing else that is logical. That's why its impossible for a previous physical you to survive death of the physical body and then reincarnate. Even if that was possible there are no process's within the structures to allow that to happen. Your pure identity is a different thing altogether . It is pure, So to search for a previous physical you makes no sense.The pure you is a separate identity to the physical you that is important


This is only half of my post I did not know I was limited When T tried to submit the whole post the forum would not allow me. I will do the other half later......................
 
This is the continuation of my post


It is very possible the belief in and/or idea of a resurrecting Jesus and/or god did early on drive many of the misconceptions about reincarnation


Your pure identity and awareness is the pure version of you which the structures keep separate from your physical identity and awareness. It is this pure version of you that if selected by the structures will reincarnate. I'm sure it would not be random and there is some type of method used to enable the structures to consider your pure identify and awareness is worthy of reincarnating and continue to grow. Reincarnation must be kept pure by the structures. That's why the physical identities and awareness's which are not pure are eliminated through the structures together with the pure identities and awareness's that are not selected after the death of there physical bodies.


It defies all the laws of the universe that makes and maintains things the way they are that a flawed and imperfect physical identity would be allowed to reincarnate and continue on. That is not allowed and does not happen.


The pure version of you being a separate identity and awareness is not and never has been a doctor, teacher, factory worker or anything else physical. Pure identity memory is about memory itself which has nothing to do with the separate living or dead physical identity. In other words he has no memory of being Harry Sullivan the dead blacksmith but he has stored memory's of the skills of a blacksmith. Harry Sullivans pure identity and awareness was never the physical Harry Sullivan, so how could he have memories of a person he never was?


As I have said reincarnation is all about John Brown's original reincarnated pure identity and awareness of the original physical John Brown. John Brown does reincarnate over and over again continually moving reincarnation forwards


When John Brown's pure identity and awareness is selected by the structures to survive physical death of his physical body and reincarnate with his Billy everything changes for him. Because he went though the dying process and emerged intact he was transformed into something he was not before. I have described that poorly because it makes it appear it is a spiritual or biblical process, which it is not. It is a process within the structures that allows and makes it happen.


After the transformation Billy can permanently attach himself to the pure identity and awareness allowing them to reincarnate together from that incarnation on without the pure identity and awareness having to go through the dying process again. John Browns pure identity and awareness is far more powerful after the transformation which amongst other things gives him greater influence and control over the physical identity. They are some of the reasons the structures keep tight control over the numbers and why the structures would be chaotic if all pure identities and awareness's were allowed to reincarnate. The above is a very basic description on how reincarnation works. The complexities of how and why it happens this way is another thing.


I have given a lot of thought since my understandings began to what those who believe they have had a previous physical life are experiencing They are obviously real experiences


What may be happening is, they have a transformed John Brown within them. If that is right then that is a wonderful thing to have happened to you. You would be a true reincarnation for John Brown and an important source for him gaining knowledge as well as being his connection to his future .You would be very important to him. John Brown could have had any amount of reincarnations and he is a part of you with all of his knowledge and memories. If I'm right and you can make some sort of connection to him he could teach you plenty, That's enough. These interruptions of my understandings are not completely accurate. I find that impossible to do


If you have any questions please ask
 
...Billy has no emotions, feelings or compassion. they are all generated by the physical body which he has no connection to. His only connection is to the pure identity and awareness. It is the same as you cannot have memory unless you have a physical body to re experience the memories you have. That not only eliminates any possibility that a fictional spiritual you has memory, but it is also very important for the recall of pure identity and awareness memory. Both these are far to complicated and complex issues for me to even begin to know how to explain what they are and how they work....
Click to expand...
I can see what you're trying to say, but I'm going to give you a couple of other ideas to think about. This is a complicated and mind blowing thing to think about I know. So, here are some thoughts I've had about it over the years.


I don't think there's any need to make up new words when 'soul' is a perfectly good one. It doesn't have to have a specific religious connotation. Some people use 'spirit' some use 'essence'. It's all the same 'thing' that people are trying to describe in my view. Use 'Billy' if you like but...


I don't envisage the soul as a little thing, say the size of a tennis ball, floating around in 'space' - lifeless, lacking emotion, lacking consciousness, thought or memory or purpose - until it can find a body to inhabit. I see the soul as like an enormous tree, that has new fruit every season. The tree is ageless. The fruit come and go. I see the soul like a universe swirling with galaxies that form and then reform.... (You get the idea).


I am here to tell you that memories don't reside in the brain. They reside in the soul. Sure, doctors can do experiments and trigger memories by stimulating the brain with electrodes ... Sure, damage to the brain will impair memory. That's all true. But it's not the whole picture. That's like saying the television is 'making' the images you see on it and you can prove it by twiddling the knobs. The images are being translated by the TV but they come from 'somewhere else'.


People who have had near death experiences report being perfectly awake, having feelings and memories and all that, even though they were clinically dead. There are thousands of stories about this. There are also thousands of stories of people who remember their past lives and have all kinds of evidence to support that. Perhaps what we think we know about life, death and consciousness is incomplete?

Reincarnation is rare. Not many pure identities and awareness's reincarnate...
Click to expand...
No, it's not rare. It's the norm not the exception. I think it's just like every other natural cycle. Why wouldn't it be?

...What may be happening is, they have a transformed John Brown within them. If that is right then that is a wonderful thing to have happened to you. You would be a true reincarnation for John Brown and an important source for him gaining knowledge as well as being his connection to his future .You would be very important to him. John Brown could have had any amount of reincarnations and he is a part of you with all of his knowledge and memories. If I'm right and you can make some sort of connection to him he could teach you plenty, That's enough....
Click to expand...
Most people report past life memories in much the same way, across many different cultures, and across the centuries. They feel like memories. They are usually very personal and specific. They meet people again. They recognise them. I tend to just agree with them, because that's my experience too. It doesn't need such an elaborate explanation in my view to understand it.


Deep down somewhere, at the most basic level, we are all the same 'soul'. However, I believe we have our own 'identities' within that somewhere.


Some people use metaphors like candles lit from the same flame...
 
I think he is saying the physical being cannot reincarnate and thus, since memory is held in the physical brain and chemistry, the soul cannot possibly remember a past life because that person dies along with all the scientific biology of memory in life. The newly reincarnated person starts over.


I disagree because if this were true, we would be incomplete simple, physical beings with empty souls that do not retain the lessons or life reasons we are here in the first place. If it is impossible for the soul to draw memories from a past life, or impossible for the soul to remember while in a physical body of a new life, then that would indicate a limited existence which would defy the purpose of these multiple lives in the first place. And it is presumptuous to think our physical existence here in present time and space is limited by our biology because it takes spirituality, greater purpose, and creation out of it. And in its place, fills the void with humanity's limited understanding of the physical, non-spiritual universe (science).


My belief is that there are two memories happening in a parallel universe. One is the physical in present time and space. The other is the spirit/soul happening outside this time and space. Both are the same because you cannot separate the being into physical and spiritual/soul. One memory stops at death for the purposes of this physical world in that particular individual. The other continues with the soul. The physical memory continues in our physical world's family and history. The spiritual memory is infinite with the eternal life of the soul. The exception is when a soul is trapped on the other side in our physical world at the body, time, and age at death.


Besides, there is too much evidence (some scientifically compiled) that past lives memory exists with many cases of children at age three remembering their lives in other confirmed people from the past. And who's to say that our past life memory isn't part of our current life reason? Maybe some of us are meant to remember for some greater reasoning we cannot understand.


My 2 cents.
 
Well, this is an intelligent and thoughtful discussion, and you have all given me food for thought.


In your scenario, John Tat, does the CEO correspond to the subconscious?


I agree with Tanguerra that memory doesn't reside in the physical brain. It resides in the soul, whether you want to call it "Billy", or "Myrtle". Just my opinion. ;)


I like MereDreamer's idea about the parallel existence of memories, and the point she made that three year old children remember past lives that are verifiable. I am convinced that reincarnation is the norm, not the exception.
 
Hi


The CEO is Billy, the soul not the subconscious


You both have questioned where memory is stored You both believe it is the soul. I do not believe that


My question is what is memory?


My opinion is best described by the following example


You are eating a piece of caramel filled chocolate. While you are eating the chocolate you are saying to yourself, this tastes great, it is really nice. You then swallow the chocolate. What then are your memories of the chocolate? You couldn't possibly have any memories of what the chocolate tasted like. You would have to eat another piece of the chocolate to recall the memories of what the first piece of chocolate tasted like.


So what is memory? I very much doubt physical memory has anything to do with the soul
 
John Tat said:
,....My opinion is best described by the following example You are eating a piece of caramel filled chocolate. While you are eating the chocolate you are saying to yourself, this tastes great, it is really nice. You then swallow the chocolate. What then are your memories of the chocolate? You couldn't possibly have any memories of what the chocolate tasted like. You would have to eat another piece of the chocolate to recall the memories of what the first piece of chocolate tasted like.
So what is memory? I very much doubt physical memory has anything to do with the soul
Click to expand...
I find I disagree.


People remember past life events very vividly. They remember the pain, they remember the smells, tastes, sensations, the fears, joys, sounds, emotions, dust... what they were thinking, why there were there. Strangely enough, people also retain 'muscle memory' - for instance in playing the violin or riding a horse as though they had been doing it all their lives. There's even a word for this. People call it being a 'natural' or a 'prodigy'. Often people retain elements of a former language ... how do you account for all this? Are they lying? Is it their imagination? How then to explain the many instances where people find proof of what they say?


It is a common misconception in our culture (not all cultures share this conception by the way) that the baby is a blank slate with no thoughts or memories at all. Just a blob of 'meat' with a brain. This is not true. There is 'something else' going on as well. Let's call it... the Betty.


Betty is the link between the mind and the 'other' level of existence that is not the one we experience in 3D land. We get in touch with it easily enough. Betty talks to us in our dreams, when we meditate, when we 'zone out' when we hear a song on the radio that makes us laugh or cry but we're not sure why. Music, poetry, art, dance, beauty.... what is the use of those? What purpose do they serve? Why do they move us so? Why are we compelled to make create them? Because these are Betty's food. She is always hungry. Why do we love? It's not necessary for procreation, but we do it. Because that is what Betty wants of course. Betty loves love itself.


What is your conscience? Why do you rush to help someone in danger? Why do you not just beat others and steal and lie and cheat all the time? Upbringing, perhaps, culture perhaps, but what is behind that? What is that little voice in our head that tells us what we are thinking of doing is wrong and we should think the consequences through and see it from the other person's viewpoint... Is it your 'subconscious'? What is your subconscious anyway? Is it 'instinct'? What is instinct anyway? Is it perhaps stored memories accumulated over many lives, but which lie dormant in most people, until they might be needed? It's Betty again ... Betty is also very fond of chocolate. :)


Only those who don't hear our 'Betty', or won't listen to what she is always trying to tell us, miss out on these things. In those poor folk the mind is 99% in charge and poor Betty has to stay in the dungeon and only comes out at tiny moments - to see a sun rise, or run about in the snow when nobody is looking ...
 
I don't envisage the soul as a little thing, say the size of a tennis ball, floating around in 'space' - lifeless, lacking emotion, lacking consciousness, thought or memory or purpose - until it can find a body to inhabit. I see the soul as like an enormous tree, that has new fruit every season. The tree is ageless. The fruit come and go. I see the soul like a universe swirling with galaxies that form and then reform.... (You get the idea)


This was a quote from tanguerra yesterday
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It doesn't matter what people believe the soul to be. What people think does not alter the fact that without our physical body the life form of our existence the soul has no purpose or relevance for us. The real question that creates is how reliant is the soul on physical life to function? Does everything revolve around physical life and not the soul or anything else? Physical life is all we know and understand. Physical life is a fact Everything else is perception on what might or might not be


A reincarnating pure identities and awareness's into new physical bodies is how it happens. There is only physical life
 
I know that our physical entities provide our greater souls with a locus for focused attention on particular thoughts, ideas and situations, though I cannot agree that everything but physical life is simply perception...especially since I believe my "physical life" is one of perception...no one else can receive the same impressions I receive from my same point of view and combined experience. Furthermore, I have had non-physical experiences which have provided more meaningful memories and more life-changing effects than most of those I experience in the physical. I see this comment as being akin to the idea "if I can't see it, its not there."


I respectfully disagree with you but am looking forward to reading your thoughts and impressions as you develop them. Have you read Bruce Moen's theory that the "pure identity and awareness" is but a disk from which a "messenger" flows into a body for a single lifetime to report back on what it found during its time incarnate? Some of your manner of discussion reminds me of his views, which are worthy of review for a greater scope of discussion.
 
To me, the soul is "all". I change my body the way I do a dress, or a pair of shoes. Once it becomes outdated, worn, or loses it's utility, it is "recycled". What set you off on your journey of soul exploration, John Tat?
 
argonne1918 said:
Just because you were taught that doesn't mean it's true. There's probably many things you were taught that aren't true.
Click to expand...
About brain chemistry?


Brain chemistry affects personality, actions, choices, and health in life. This is an accepted fact of medical science. While we are here, this is our conduit to the physical world. Without your cortex, you are in a coma.
 
DreamAuthor said:
This is an accepted fact of medical science.
Click to expand...
Accepted until the "story" that is science is updated with newfound discovery. What accepted facts allow a medical belief in NDE's?
 
usetawuz said:
I know that our physical entities provide our greater souls with a locus for focused attention on particular thoughts, ideas and situations, though I cannot agree that everything but physical life is simply perception...especially since I believe my "physical life" is one of perception...no one else can receive the same impressions I receive from my same point of view and combined experience. Furthermore, I have had non-physical experiences which have provided more meaningful memories and more life-changing effects than most of those I experience in the physical. I see this comment as being akin to the idea "if I can't see it, its not there."
I respectfully disagree with you but am looking forward to reading your thoughts and impressions as you develop them. Have you read Bruce Moen's theory that the "pure identity and awareness" is but a disk from which a "messenger" flows into a body for a single lifetime to report back on what it found during its time incarnate? Some of your manner of discussion reminds me of his views, which are worthy of review for a greater scope of discussion.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for the advise about Moen. I did a quick Bing search but did not find anything. I will find it with a little more effort


Perception is an interesting word both in its meaning and what it says and infers. It is believed there are facts, the truth and perception. I believe there is no such thing as the truth. When you are searching for the truth what are you really searching for? Your searching for proof about what you believe in, your truths which are your perceptions which most of the time have nothing to do with any facts. A man is married. He has wife and three children. It is fact he is married. It is the truth he has three children. Unless he has his three children DNA tested it is not the truth he has three children it is only his perception he has three children. Your truth is not my truth It is all perception. there are only facts and perception
 
DreamAuthor said:
About brain chemistry?
Brain chemistry affects personality, actions, choices, and health in life. This is an accepted fact of medical science. While we are here, this is our conduit to the physical world. Without your cortex, you are in a coma.
Click to expand...
Medical science is very clever, but it has a long way to go until it can explain everything. Sure, 'brain chemistry' and 'mood' are related, but which is cause and which is effect? Genetics are very important as to the health of your body and even some behaviours, but even identical twins have different personalities. How do you account for that?


Do you think everything we do can be blamed on brain chemistry? If so, is there a tablet that can make you a violinist? No, there isn't. There are tablets that can make you feel temporarily happy or sad, or sedate hallucinations or anxieties, but that sort of thing is not the entirety of human experience. That is just a tiny part of it.


These are 'reductionist' arguments that miss the whole, while describing a part of the human experience. They try to 'reduce' the human experience to something that is 'just' chemistry and 'just' our physicality. This sort of argument reminds me of the old arguments about indigenous people not building cities and railroads or worshipping a certain god, and therefore being 'barbarous' and therefore in need of being 'liberated' of their lands. It seemed to make sense at the time, it even had a veneer of 'science' around it, as people cited Darwin (much to his horror) as an excuse for enslaving these people. But this 'theory' was seriously lacking in sufficient information about the people in question and was really just a way of propping up the status quo. It's also missing the point of 'what is a human being' entirely.
 
John Tat said:
It doesn't matter what people believe the soul to be. What people think does not alter the fact that without our physical body the life form of our existence the soul has no purpose or relevance for us. The real question that creates is how reliant is the soul on physical life to function? Does everything revolve around physical life and not the soul or anything else? Physical life is all we know and understand. Physical life is a fact Everything else is perception on what might or might not be
A reincarnating pure identities and awareness's into new physical bodies is how it happens. There is only physical life
Click to expand...
So who are 'us'? Who are 'we'? Sure, in this life we identify with our particular body, our particular present life experiences. Of course we do. That's normal and how it should be. However, some people have these other experiences. They are a bit unusual, but by no means rare, even in western culture which actually represses these things. In other cultures, it's just accepted as a normal part of life. Hinduism, Buddhism and various indigenous cultures just accept that reincarnation 'happens', that their daughter used to be their grand mother and so on, and just get on with it. How to account for this? Are all these (billions) of people just deluded or kidding themselves? What about little kids, aged three or four, who talk about their previous lives and who's stories have time and again checked out. What's going on there? Or is 'science' missing something important out of its equations?


I disagree that the soul has no function and no purpose without a body. There is a lot of work that has been done on 'Life between lives' by a few people. You may find it interesting to get hold of the couple of books there are on this. Dr Brian Weiss is the main expert in this field and has made it his life's work.


Now, you might just dismiss these people as 'kooks' or just 'wrong' but you'd have to investigate what they have to say before doing that or it would hardly be fair, would it?


Indeed, the soul has a very independent existence when it's not involved with a body. You get little glimpses of it every night when you dream as well. As BriarRose says, the soul discards the body when it's done with it, just like an old coat and moves on to the next thing.


You might also like to get hold of a book by Hans Ten Dam called simply 'Reincarnation'. It's a very good overview of the whole topic and explains everything from how the soul attaches to a baby and what happens between lives. You can get it on Amazon.com easily enough. It explains a lot in a very sensible way.
 
tanguerra said:
Medical science is very clever, but it has a long way to go until it can explain everything. Sure, 'brain chemistry' and 'mood' are related, but which is cause and which is effect? Genetics are very important as to the health of your body and even some behaviours, but even identical twins have different personalities. How do you account for that?
Do you think everything we do can be blamed on brain chemistry? If so, is there a tablet that can make you a violinist? No, there isn't. There are tablets that can make you feel temporarily happy or sad, or sedate hallucinations or anxieties, but that sort of thing is not the entirety of human experience. That is just a tiny part of it.


These are 'reductionist' arguments that miss the whole, while describing a part of the human experience. They try to 'reduce' the human experience to something that is 'just' chemistry and 'just' our physicality. This sort of argument reminds me of the old arguments about indigenous people not building cities and railroads or worshipping a certain god, and therefore being 'barbarous' and therefore in need of being 'liberated' of their lands. It seemed to make sense at the time, but it was seriously lacking in sufficient information about the people in question and was really just a way of propping up the status quo. It's also missing the point of 'what is a human being' entirely.
Click to expand...
I think you misinterpret what I'm saying. Try reading my post on my past life memory. Also, I'm not a science ideologue who hasn't an open mind about these concepts. I agree with what you are saying as well, but I'm also very familiar with brain chemistry and how it affects the mind, personality and choices.


Take the twins example. Different personalities naturally, but if you introduce narcotics or a brain injury, you have yet another change which wasn't there at birth. Right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top