9/11 baby - Discussion of the baby rn case

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by GuySittingintheStands, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    There is an insane amount of detail in the baby_rn case (http://www.reincarnationforum.com/threads/9-11-baby-baby_rn.1608/ ), really, almost on par with the James Leininger case. Here's a detail that I just came across regarding the "boat on top" (of the fire truck) comment baby rn makes on page 1, post 4 of her thread. At 1:58 in the clip below the fireman, in reference to the FDNY Rescue 4 fire truck, makes mention of the eyelets on top of the rig where the "boat was mounted":



    Baby rn reporting what her 3-year-old son described to her from his past life ( Sept 30, 2007):

    "He told me that I would really enjoy the Christmas parties at his fire station...everyone always has lots of fun...he said they got a new fire truck because their old one is wrecked...he has said this several times about a new fire truck with a tv in it and maps and a boat on top."

    Who else, but someone who actually worked on that truck, would have known about a boat being mounted on top of a fire truck.

    Here is a clip of Carol (Bowman) talking about the case (lecture in Philadelpha at the June 2017 MUFON conference, see youtube clip below 1:20:34 - 1:28:48):
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  2. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Regarding the following comments made by baby rn in Cases of Interest , 9/11 Case II:

    baby rn:

    . . . He said they got a new fire truck because their old one is wrecked...he has said this several times about a new fire truck with a TV in it and maps and a boat on top
    . . . He said he has two different trucks...one with ladders and one with 2 boats with his scuba gear.
    . . . I haven't gotten anywhere with my search for fire stations that were using new equipment before 9/11...anyone have any ideas how to find this out?

    I found a source for FDNY new apparatus before 9/11. Just picked up the phone and called their museum-library.

    FDNY Rescue companies received new 1996 model rescue trucks from 12/20/1996 (Rescue 1, Manhattan) to 07/28/1997 (Rescue 4, Queens). FDNY has 5 Rescue companies -- one for each borough, so 5 rescue trucks total. These new trucks came equipped with eyelets on top of the truck for boat mounting, and I suspect (but don't know for sure) that they came equipped with small computer data monitors in the front cab. The new 1996 model fire rescue trucks replaced the older 1985 models, which most likely were not equipped with computer monitors, and, from a picture I saw on pinterest of a 1985 FDNY Rescue 1 truck, did not have eyelets on top of the truck for boat mounting. Any firefighter having had most of his Rescue training and experience on the 1985 model would certainly have considered the 1996 model "new", especially with all the new bells and whistles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  3. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FDNY Rescue 1 responding with an older rescue apparatus with boat mounted on top of truck, June 2001 (not the 1996 model "heavy rescue" truck as shown in the previous clip):



    Facebook page showing/ displaying a photo of the rear end of a Rescue 1 1996 model "heavy rescue" fire truck responding to the 9/11 WTC terror attack with boat mounted on top of the rig (scroll down about half-way down the page):

    https://www.facebook.com/saulsburyfire/

    Pinterest photo showing/ displaying a photo of the FDNY Rescue 1 1985 model "heavy rescue" fire truck:

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/498703358732350035/

    To complicate matters, FDNY also have Tactical Support Units (TSU) which carry an inflatable boat on top of the truck:

    https://www.firereplicas.com/fire-department-city-of-new-york-tsu-1/
     
  4. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I've got verification for another of baby rn's claims about her son's multiple mentions of a "new fire truck with a TV in it".

    Starting in 1994 (according to my retired FDNY source) FDNY began installing Motorola MDTs (Mobile Data Terminals) in all their fire trucks and engines. They looked like small TVs. Here is a link showing what they looked like:

    https://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/motorola/mdt9100/index.htm

    These MDTs would have certainly been installed into each of the new 1996 KME/ Saulsbury FDNY Fire Rescue trucks that were being delivered to their Rescue Companies in 1997.

    I asked about the maps too. Normally they wouldn't be needed as a truck's driver would know his company's coverage area like the back of his hand. And they weren't loaded onto any data terminals in those days. If for some reason, the driver ("chauffeur") didn't know an address, he could always ask the dispatcher for directions. However, FDNY often relocated companies to other parts of the city temporarily for a shift ("tour") or two to cover an area for a company that was off on a training assignment, or away from their fire house for whatever reason (like responding to another emergency in their coverage area). These were paper Hagstrom maps of NYC, of each of the boroughs, just like the dispatchers had in their offices, so as to avoid any confusion. So, yes, FDNY fire rescue trucks kept maps in the front cab in case the driver or lieutenant needed them for reference.

    A contributor to an FDNY forum that I came across had this to say about the need for maps in the old days before GPS:

    "My company took a map book and enlarged the response areas of different companies in Da Bronx ["The Bronx", a borough in NYC] and put it in a binder, one page per company. Route cards [index cards with directions from a given Firehouse to a specific box in a coverage area (a box nowadays is a specific location in the city usually a street intersection or, more rarely, an actual fire alarm box] are great from FH to box but like [someone] said above, what if you caught another run [call to take care of a fire or some other emergency] on the air [over the radio] or if for some reason the directions on the card are blocked and you have to divert. There could be a few problems. Sometimes relocators [relocating companies] got sent home from a box and took the route card with them. By making maps for each response area the officer could see and help the chauffer [driver] get around."
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  5. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I thought the following a curiosity. Baby_rn uses the term "fire station" exclusively whenever she paraphrases her son, but when she quotes him, she has him say "firehouse". "Firehouse" is what the FDNY call a fire station. I'm not sure if all big city fire departments call their fire stations "firehouses" but I know New York City certainly does, almost exclusively [Note: Chicago uses "firehouses" too]. I'm pretty sure the West Coast (and the West in general) uses "fire stations"; and suburban (and rural) East Coast uses "fire stations". I don't know what the Mid-West uses. Anyway here is the data:

    Baby_rn (ie, the mother):

    He told me that I would really enjoy the Christmas parties at his fire station
    Do you know anything about where the fire stations are located in NYC
    I took my son to the fire station today
    He said at his fire station someone made popcorn once
    I haven't gotten anywhere with my search for fire stations that were using new equipment before 9/11

    Baby_rn's son:
    Another thing he has said that I thought was funny was one day he was standing in his bed (toddler bed) after he woke up in the morning and said "welcome to my fire truck! Can I give you a tour? We just got this new truck for Christmas...our firehouse is so much fun. I think you'll like it!"

    (But then again, maybe baby_rn's son picked up "firehouse" from one of his children's books, eg., Curious George and the Firefighters, first published August 2004, where the term is used twice).
     
  6. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Watch this 1991 video clip of FDNY Rescue 1, paying special attention to the importance of families in the mind of a firefighter going into a blazing fire with people trapped inside ("we got families, but they got families too"):



    Here is baby_rn's son's commentary on the "bad men" who knocked over the buildings:

    Last night my son said why did the bad men knock those buildings down (referring to picture of twin towers in Curious George book) I said I don't know...he said "but why?" "Didn't they have families?" Where are they from? "Did the people get hurt?" Did firefighters get hurt?"

    He really doesn't seem to show any emotion when he says all of these things...it’s almost as if he's trying to figure out how and why it happened? Make any sense? Because the way he asked it was almost like he couldn't understand why these "bad men" did this if they had families...I thought it was interesting that he asked if they had families...not something I would think of if I knew someone intentionally knocked buildings down.
     
  7. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Cases of Interest 9/11 Case II – baby rn post 11

    "He said people were falling from a building because they wouldn't wait...he was on the floor with his breathing mask on and tried to get out a window but it was too small so he used his ax to break a hole so he could get the people out. To answer someone else’s question about if he seems scared about this...no it’s very matter of fact…just statements." (boldface added).

    We can infer a lot from just this one post:

    "He said people were falling from a building because they wouldn't wait . . ." This places what follows in the context of 9/11 as about 200 people from the doomed upper floors of building 1 (1 WTC above the 93th floor) chose to jump or fall to their deaths (between the initial attack on 1 WTC at 8:46am and the collapse of 1 WTC at 10:28am) rather than wait for a rescue that would never come or death by incineration.

    ". . . he was on the floor with his breathing mask on and tried to get out a window but it was too small so he used his ax to break a hole so he could get the people out."

    There were no internal windows in the offices and conference rooms of either of the WTC towers. And the lowest external windows were at least 40 feet above the plaza level (courtyard of the WTC complex). So we can't be talking about a firefighter in either of the WTC towers proper. Also, only a dozen or so firefighters ever made it to the lowest fire floors of either tower which were at or above the 78th floor in 2 WTC (south tower) or at or above 83rd floor of 1 WTC (north tower) so we have to explain why this firefighter had donned his breathing mask. My best guess is that he was on what remained of one of the lower floors the 22-story Marriott Hotel (3 WTC) between the two 110-story WTC towers after 2 WTC collapsed at 9:59 am. The south end, middle section to 7 stories, and north end of the Marriott Hotel survived the collapse of 2 WTC as part of the pancaking 2 WTC structure fell on top of the hotel kicking up a choking grey-black dust cloud all around and in the WTC complex and surrounding blocks. The force of the collapse must have knocked this firefighter to the floor where he immediately donned his breathing mask. With his flashlight he must have seen that there was a way out of one of the Marriott Hotel's lower level windows, now completely or partially blocked by fallen debris. The collapse of 1 WTC at 10:28 am crushed the hotel and would have killed him and his fellow firefighters. But even after the collapse of 1 WTC, a 3 story story section of the south end of the Marriott (the "shoebox") remained standing. It was here that a crew of FDNY firefighters from Engine Company 74 and a civilian survived the second collapse and managed to slide down an improvised rope curtain maybe 10 to 15 feet to the street below, or at least to the rubble on the street below. Unfortunately, if my scenario is anywhere close to the mark, baby rn's son's PP did not survive the second collapse.

    Here is some supplemental info on the Marriott Hotel rescue effort on 9/11:

    https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/world-trade-center-disaster-initial-response/#gref

    "Meanwhile, several chiefs had begun evacuation operations in the Marriott Hotel, adjacent and contiguous to the South Tower. They interviewed hotel staff and could not be certain that all occupants had evacuated the hotel. So companies were sent up to conduct a floor-by-floor, knocking-on-doors search and evacuation. The New York Times study placed 34 of the fallen firefighters in the Marriott Hotel at the time the South Tower collapsed, crushing the hotel.

    The New York Times interviews indicate that there were 46 companies or units operating in the South Tower and the Marriott Hotel. Twenty-five of these companies experienced casualties. Of the firefighters who died, 97 were placed in the South Tower and 34 in the hotel. The Times investigation could not pinpoint the locations of 78 firefighters who died on 9-11, but fire department records indicated that many of those members were assigned to the South Tower. It appears that many units may have made it to the South Tower or the Marriott Hotel or their vicinities and were not operating for very long before the unexpected tragedy of the first tower collapse occurred."


    Pictures - Inside the Twin Towers and at Ground Zero on 9/11:



    4:41 (top right) shows the front of the Marriott on West St. before collapse of 2 WTC.

    4:47 shows the southern end of the Marriott on West St. before the collapse of 2 WTC.

    7:09 (center right) shows aerial shot looking south and down West St. at 6 WTC, 1 WTC, and the front of the Marriott before the collapse of 2 WTC.

    7:22 (center) shows the southern end of the Marriott on West St. before the collapse of 2 WTC



    Youtube clip “The 9/11 Hotel” (well worth 47 minutes of your time):


    at 6:35 and 9:00 min shows Marriott Hotel from the plaza. Shows the small windows running up and down one of the staircase sections of the hotel.

    From youtube clip "9/11 /01 FDNY Manhattan Dispatch Audio - Full"
    at 1:32:24 to 1:32:58 the Manhattan Dispatcher relays reports of a "firefighter trapped and down" in the 22-story Marriott Hotel. This was 21 minutes after the collapse of 2 WTC (south tower) which had crashed into the middle of the hotel to the 7th floor and 8 minutes before the collapse of 1 WTC (north tower) which crushed the remainder of the hotel except a 3-story section of the southern end of the hotel ("the shoebox"). The dispatch proves that there was at least one firefighter and probably more trapped and still alive in the Marriott after the collapse of the first tower (2 WTC) but before the collapse of the second tower (1 WTC).
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  8. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Here is an account from the Marriott's director of food and beverage operations describing what happened in the Marriott World Trade Center hotel the morning of 9/11 after the jet airliners hit the 110-story twin towers. The 22-story Marriott lay between and adjacent to the two towers. The relevant quote from the article mentions an FBI agent leading 30 firefighters into the hotel at 9:30 am, about 40 minutes after the Marriott sounded the evacuation alarms and 27 minutes after the second plane flew into the southeast corner of 2 WTC 60 stories above the roof of the Marriott:

    " 'An FBI agent ran in at around 9:30 a.m. He said, ‘We are taking over the building.’ About 30 firemen ran in behind him and started up the stairs,” Khullar said. ' "

    https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Hotel-News/Up-from-the-ashes

    2 WTC collapsed at 9:59 am, partially collapsing a broad swath of the center of the Marriott to the 7th story. 1 WTC collapsed at 10:28 am finishing the demolition of the hotel.

    Of the 940 registered guests that morning all evacuated safely except 11 who remained unaccounted for. Two employees and about 36 firefighters were killed in the ensuing collapse of the towers.


    Regarding baby rn's statement "...he was on the floor with his breathing mask on and tried to get out a window but it was too small so he used his ax to break a hole so he could get the people out.", you might wonder how a firefighter knocked down and choking on the pulverized cement, powdered drywall, dust and smoke of a building collapse in near total darkness could have been able to wrestle his SCBA (self-contained breathing apparatus) mask over his face. Well, we have such a firefighter in just such a situation. Listen to FDNY Ladder 10 firefighter John M. describe his predicament in the lobby of 1WTC moments after 2WTC collapsed onto the Marriott and surrounding area:

     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby rn stated that her 3-year-old son described how firefighters push into a fire by moving forward along the hose line towards the blazing blast furnace heat of a really bad fire to relieve a guy in front either holding the nozzle (the "nozzleman") or the guy right behind him (assuming he decides he needs a break from the intense heat or air tank running low) until they can put the fire out.

    "He has told me firemen follow the leader up a line in a fire and if falls off the line he uses a bright light and sometimes a camera to find them and makes them say cheese (there’s the three-year-old talking)"

    Due to thick smoke from the fire visibility is poor at best, so the fire officer in charge will sometimes have to use a bright flashlight or (at least since early spring 2001) a thermal-imaging device/ thermal-imaging camera to find the exhausted and somewhat dazed firefighter to extricate him, especially if their air tank is starting to run low (I've read that the smaller Engine and Ladder SCBA air tanks start to chirp with 11 minutes of air left and vibrate with 5 minutes of air left); while Rescue air tanks, which are bigger and heavier, can go another 15 minutes before their built-in PASS alarm starts to chirp.) PASS stands for Personal Alert Safety System and chirp briefly when they are first turned on, at the 11 minute warning, and continuously whenever they are on but motionless for 30 seconds until the battery runs out.

    A 3-year-old shouldn't know about stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  10. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Before we go on I just wanted to pause and remember the firefighters of FDNY Rescue who lost their lives on 9/11. These were men who loved life, loved what they did, and had dreams for the future -- a future that they would never see in this life:



    (btw, that's Charlene Soraia's 2011 cover of Wherever You Will Go in youtube clip above.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  11. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby_rn stated that her son, barely 3, would take out his toy ax and pretend to chop down the walls in their house (post 1, page 1):

    He would take his play axe and pretend to chop down the walls etc because there was fire behind them.

    After a fire has been extinguished one or more firefighters from one of the Ladder Companies will go through the charred insides of the burned-out building looking for any hidden hotspots in the walls and ceilings that could reignite. They will pull down ("chop down") sections of walls and ceilings with an axe in order to get to these smoldering hotspots, so that the embers can be doused with water and extinguished.

    Your average 3-year-old shouldn't know about this.
     
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  12. SleeplessFox

    SleeplessFox Senior Member

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    Thanks a lot to you, GuySittingintheStands, and your engagement in this particular case! I hope we'll find it with all it's overwhelming details in a printed book one day (no matter who will write it down/publish it) :)
     
  13. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby_rn: "Do you know anything about where the fire stations are located in NYC? He gave me directions from his station to Mike's...coming from a three-year-old it could be just a bunch of lefts and rights but who knows?"


    Directions from FDNY Ladder 3 in Manhattan to FDNY Rescue 1 also in Manhattan (2.7 miles, 12 minutes)
    FDNY Ladder 3
    108 E 13th St
    New York, NY 10003


    Head northwest on E 13th St/Cornell Edwards Way toward 4th Ave 0.5 mi
    Turn right onto 6th Ave
    Turn left onto W 23rd St 0.7 mi
    Turn right onto 10th Ave
    Turn left onto W 43rd St

    Destination will be on the left

    FDNY Rescue 1
    530 W 43rd St
    New York, NY 10036


    Just sayin'.

    PS. Baby rn's son said that his firehouse was "downtown". In New York City, "downtown" means lower Manhattan, the southern tip of Manhattan (which is an island), that is, anything south of 14th Street according to wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Manhattan

    So, Ladder 3 at 108 E 13th Street, NY, NY would be considered "downtown".
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
  14. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby_rn:
    "He told me that I would really enjoy the Christmas parties at his fire station...everyone always has lots of fun...he said they got a new fire truck because their old one is wrecked...he has said this several times about a new fire truck with a TV in it and maps and a boat on top."

    "
    Another thing he has said that I thought was funny was one day he was standing in his bed (toddler bed) after he woke up in the morning and said "welcome to my fire truck! Can i give you a tour? We just got this new truck for Christmas...our firehouse is so much fun . I think you'll like it!"

    GSITS (this thread, post # 2):
    "FDNY Rescue companies received new 1996 model rescue trucks from 12/20/1996 (Rescue 1, Manhattan) to 07/28/1997 (Rescue 4, Queens) (source: FDNY Mand Library, NYC). FDNY has 5 Rescue companies -- one for each borough, so 5 rescue trucks total. These new trucks came equipped with eyelets on top of the truck for boat mounting, and . . . they came equipped with small computer data monitors in the front cab. The new 1996 model fire rescue trucks replaced the older 1985 models, which most likely were not equipped with computer monitors, and, from a picture I saw on pinterest of a 1985 FDNY Rescue 1 truck, did not have eyelets on top of the truck for boat mounting. Any firefighter having had most of his Rescue training and experience on the 1985 model would certainly have considered the 1996 model "new", especially with all the new bells and whistles."

    In other words, FDNY Rescue 1 received their new 1996 rescue truck on or shortly after Dec 20, 1996, ie., shortly before Christmas, 1996.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  15. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby_rn:
    " ...my son was talking about different guns the other night and who uses them and types of "ammo" and snipers ...we asked a friend who's on swat and he said he's right... "

    This suggests baby_rn's son's past-life personality may have had a military or police background in addition to his firefighter profession in the FDNY.


    Baby_rn:
    "Sounds silly to say but he has this aqua blue rock that he calls his treasure rock and it has its own special place and own special bag that he plays with...other times if someone from our family has a pain or says something is hurt, he gets it out and warms it with his hands (literally. It gets really warm) and puts it where he says he sees a red spot."

    Here baby_rn's son may be referring to healing stones, especially the aqua blue Larimar stone described in the following link:

    https://www.larimarket.com/metaphysical-properties/

    [​IMG]
    So now we have a past-life personality who, at one time in his life, was very much into or knew people who were into guns, especially the guns and ammo used in military operations -- AND, was also, or at a different time of his life, into New Age-y things like Larimar healing stones.

    Go figure.
     
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  16. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    He was an Irish-American.

    Baby_rn: "...the Irish firefighter badge he put on his training tower(part of his fire bed) and is obsessed right now with Saint Patrick’s day and being Irish..."
    "I am half Irish...But he said the other day he is so happy he is Irish...he decorated the house for St Patrick’s day and said "did you know firefighters put these on their
    fire helmets? (pointing to a shamrock)...I have one too...he is counting down the days til St Patrick’s day which is funny cause we never decorated or did too much on St Patrick’s day..."

    The St. Patrick's Day Parade is a big deal in NYC and the FDNY always has a large contingent that participates in the march up 5th Avenue. The FDNY (and the NYPD) have their own Emerald Societies, which are Irish-American societies with their own traditional Irish pipes and drums bands that perform at events like St. Patrick's Day Parades, but also at funerals for fallen FDNY firefighters.

    He was a Fire Officer, Captain or Lieutenant.

    Baby_rn: "He rides in the front he said...but he is not chief..."
    "He has told me his age, company number and rank
    ...so yes, I have a pretty good idea of who he was. . ."

    Only a fire officer and his driver ("chauffeur") ride in the front cab of any Fire Truck or Engine. A typical FDNY company consists of one Captain, 3 Lieutenants, and 25 firefighters. The driver ("chauffeur") is one of the senior (meaning most experienced and respected) firefighters of a company. Baby_rn knows her son's past-life personality's rank, but says he was not a Chief. Below Chief there are only 3 ranks in the FDNY: Captain, Lieutenant (the Fire Officers) and Firefighter. Although firefighter is an actual rank in fire departments, my guess is that baby_rn wouldn't know that, so rank (to her) would mean Chief, Captain, or Lieutenant, and she says her son's PP was not a chief. So, Captain or Lieutenant.

    But I think you all knew this already.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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  17. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    This is a 25-minute National Geographic video highlighting FDNY firefighters response to the 9/11 terror attack at the WTC that morning. It's dubbed in German. I found and attached the original version in English, is right beneath it. :



    Original version in English:

     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  18. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby_rn: [Her 3-year-old son provided] "…very detailed [information] about firefighting and has stated he's not a firefighter he's fire rescue."

    So, baby rn's son was either a member of one of FDNY's elite Fire Rescue units or a former member, at the time of his death on Sept 11, 2001.

    In a previous thread, Trumbull, Connecticut FD Assistant Chief Jeff Keene (retired) (baby rn thread, post #9) said:

    “I had to laugh when I read what you wrote about what your little one said, " he's not a firefighter he's fire rescue...". My guess is that he was in a "Rescue" unit. . . .I wrote in my book about some of the members of Rescue 1 (they lost 11 men on 9/11) and have seen them instilling this attitude into their children. It is very hard to get into one of these units and they are the elite of the FDNY.”

    A firefighter is not assigned to a Fire Rescue Company, they are recommended to and must be approved by the company's captain. Oftentimes they are directly chosen by the captain. They are usually firefighters who have proven themselves in impossible situations or have otherwise demonstrated that they have the potential to become great firefighters. They have the "right stuff". Rescue company members are called on to rescue other firefighters in life-threatening situations, as well as trapped civilians where needed. Since the mid-1980s they have been given the responsibility of being "first due" at any major fire or rescue situation in NYC, including water rescue, downed airliners, falling cranes and collapsing high-rises, and yes, burning skyscrapers. Although all FDNY firefighters devote their lives to firefighting, a FDNY Rescue company's motto is "First man in. Last man out" -- more than a motto, it's a code of honor, an ethos, with these firemen, that they live, and in the case of 9/11, died by. They are the Bravest of the Brave.

    Here is a FDNY Rescue 1 clip probably from first half of 2001 (17 minutes) that gives some examples of what a Rescue company does. The first part follows them on a water rescue, and shows why they must be expert SCUBA divers as they almost exclusively have to manage in blackwater conditions (extremely low or no visibility underwater) in strong currrents while trying to save somebody's life 30 feet beneath the surface of the East River or Hudson River:

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  19. SleeplessFox

    SleeplessFox Senior Member

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    Sorry for the late reaction to this. Do you want me to validate some information given by Baby_rn in this video?
     
  20. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Thanks, but no. I posted it for those of you who don't quite get how big an event 9/11 was. Also, National Geographic does a very good job of relating the scale of the destruction . . . and pain . . that 9/11 was for so many, especially FDNY firefighters and their families. Other than this informational video I think it best to only post those clips that help verify Baby rn's account of her son's past-life personality as an FDNY firefighter who died on 9/11 at the World Trade Center.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
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  21. SleeplessFox

    SleeplessFox Senior Member

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  22. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Steve (Carol's husband and this forum's owner) has already said the following about the baby rn case:

    "Carol is including this case in her current writing project; we call it "9/11 Baby". It is, in her opinion, the best American case--as good as the best of the Stevenson cases. The only difference is that she (and the mother in California) didn't attempt to "verify" it by contacting the family of the deceased firefighter. From the details the child gave, there's no doubt who that firefighter was. But they don't want to disturb the family by saying, "Hey, guess what! Your son/husband/brother has reincarnated as a boy in California."

    SleeplessFox -- Ask again in November. My crystal ball should be up and running by then. It's such an important case that I think Carol will write it up and submit it as a stand-alone essay or journal article. We need to be patient. Because she fully intends to keep baby rn anonymous, and has no desire to contact the family of baby rn's son's past-life personality, don't expect anything that she and baby rn (the mother) may have discussed privately, to be made public (much to everyone else's chagrin, I imagine). But I think everyone would agree that if the mother wants to stay anonymous in order to protect her family, then we have to respect her wish.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  23. pondquinion

    pondquinion Senior Member

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    Wow, the amount of dedication. I am curious to see the end of this now.
     
  24. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Reviewing baby rn's posts once again I noticed something interesting in regards to her son's past-life personality's rank in the FDNY.

    Here are the relevant posts:

    Baby rn:

    Tonight he told me he likes to drive thru red lights with the sirens on when he doesn't actually have to and then he laughs! His info comes in spurts though usually a whole lot at a time then a lull and then more...

    He has said he has a bucket truck and he rides in the bucket..

    He told he has lots of firefighter friends and one drives his bucket.

    He said he has a picture of a wolf with a moon in his truck and always calls it "his" truck...he rides in the front he said...but he is not chief.

    He picked up his little red whistle this morning and said "this is how I wake the firefighters up if they need to go to a fire..or sleep to long!” Then he was laughing..


    Stars 3 (Chief Keene): He had to have been a Lt. or Capt. They have all kinds of tricks to get the late risers out of bed. Bang on lockers, hitting the bedframes with a baseball bat and even bang pots and pans. This last one was a favorite of a Lt. I once had (I took over his position when he retired). While making a loud clanging with the pots he would yell, "Time for all the little chickens to get up".


    Baby rn:

    ..he has told me his age, company number and rank...so yes i have a pretty good idea of who he was.

    (By the way, Carol and Baby rn did enough research in the 2011-2013 timeframe to confirm with 100% certainty who the firefighter/fire officer was . . . but they ain't a talkin')

    1. Baby rn: "he rides in the front". Only two people ride in the front cab of a fire truck or fire engine: the "chauffeur" (the firefighter driver) and in the passenger seat, a fire officer (Captain or Lieutenant). A chauffeur is one of the senior men and is responsible for the truck (or engine) and everything on or in the truck or engine to be in perfect working condition before and after a run.
    They are like NCOs (in military terms), are the fire officer's right-hand man, and are expected to take charge should anything happen to the fire officer. But they are not Officers. Their rank is still Firefighter (FF).

    2. I've always assumed and still assume baby rn's son's PP firefighter rank was Fire Officer (Captain or Lieutenant, not Chief), but baby rn's comment "he likes to drive thru red lights with the sirens on" got me thinking. Could he have been a "chauffeur", ie., a senior firefighter, but not a fire officer?

    3. Of course it's possible but I would argue that we should still assume his rank was Fire Officer (Captain or Lieutenant), and not Firefighter (the rank of every chauffeur) for the following reasons:
    a) Baby rn said her son told her his rank. I really doubt that either baby rn or her son realized that "Firefighter" is an actual rank in the FDNY, and not just a synonym for "fireman". Chief, Captain, and Lieutenant are well-known, generally-recognized ranks.
    b) Chief Keene (Stars 3) said that it is the fire officer's responsibility to make sure none of his firefighters sleep through an alarm (by banging pots, bedframes etc). Baby rn's son blew a whistle during role play saying that's how he gets his firefighters up if they sleep too long. Chief Keene felt that baby rn's son must have been a Fire Officer.
    c) Baby rn's son's comment that "he likes to drive thru red lights with his siren on" would naturally imply that he drove fire trucks, ie, that he was the driver. (By "bucket" trucks, we're talking about Ladder fire Trucks, specifically Tower Ladder trucks). But many FDNY firefighters and fire officers served in Volunteer Fire Companies in the NY metro area before they joined the professional ranks in the FDNY, and fire officers could have driven fire trucks or engines at some point in their careers. So we can't assume a priori that baby rn's son was a chauffeur at his time of death (on 9/11 at the WTC) because of his comment, but we can't entirely dismiss it either (although it would simplify matters considerably if we could).
    d) Also, an officer in the passenger seat can still say "he like to drive thru red lights" because, after all, even though he is not in the driver's seat, he still commands the truck and directs the driver, so in a way, he does drive the truck by extension because he directs the driver. (It's a convoluted argument I know).
    e) And lastly, the chauffeur does not "ride in the bucket". The chauffeur operates the bucket from the front cab,or in the case of a Tiller truck, after the truck has arrived at the incident scene, the chauffeur operates the extendable aereal (ladder) from a cab at the very back-end of the trailer. The aereals (ladders) on Tiller trucks, however, do not have a bucket attached to the end of the ladder, like Tower ladders do.


    4. I've narrowed the list of candidates for baby rn's son's PP down to a handful of names based on everything baby rn posted, and will try to exclude any chauffeurs, especially Rescue (or Squad) Chauffeurs who died on 9/11 as I come across their names and bio's. So much work!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  25. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    (Call to central dispatch from the 83rd floor, South Tower shortly after United Flight 175 was smashed into the SE corner of the building, impacting floors 77-85; my god, what a tough job)

    "Melissa Doi was trapped on the 83rd floor of the south tower and was on the phone for twenty four minutes with a 911 dispatcher when she died. She passed out before the south tower collapsed, either from heat or breathing in smoke. Some of her final words to the dispatcher were giving the dispatcher her mother's number and "tell my mother I love her, and that she's the best mother in the world". The call was recorded, but only five minutes of the call is available to the public, as her family wants to keep the last nineteen minutes private. The full call is on YouTube but Melissa has been bleeped out so that you can only hear the dispatcher. The call was used in prosecution of Zacarias Moussaoui, who was a "replacement" for one of the hijackers. The Zacarias Moussaoui's trial was the only criminal trial to come from the attacks." (quoted from one of the comments to the previous clip).


    (Some of the victims of the south tower. Real people, just like us.. Real lives, just like ours.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  26. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Rescue 1 -- Company of Heroes (2002 documentary 34 minutes):



    Ok. Several reasons for watching this clip on this thread.
    1) Gives a very good overall summary of a FDNY Rescue Company right before, during, and after 9/11. 2) Rescue 1's Captain Hatton, who died on 9/11 when the north tower collapsed, would have to be on anyone's list of candidates for baby rn's son's PP, although he wouldn't be at the top of my list. Mike M., on the other hand, is at the top of my list for the "Mike" mentioned by baby rn. 3) Interviewed are a couple, three of the widows of Rescue 1 firefighters and fire officers who were lost on 9/11. Now explain how you would go about interviewing one of these widows about the reincarnation of their husband. (especially widow at 24:22 min)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  27. Asaki

    Asaki Active Member

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    That's probably why they chose not to.
     
  28. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Oh. And why should that be so. (note the period/full stop instead of a question mark.)
     
  29. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Baby rn:
    "He also talks about his friend Mike who is also a firefighter. He told me he [her son] trains the new guys coming thru and his friend Mike is with the older guys."
    "He has said his friend Mike has two or three kids but one is the biggest four-year-old boy he's ever seen."
    "Do you know anything about where the fire stations are located in NYC? He gave me directions from his station to Mike's."
    "He has said his friend Mike is on a different truck and he rides with the old guys...He said that he (my son) rides with the young guys and shows them what to do."

    Obviously I can't be absolutely sure who baby rn's son was referring to, but I did find out that Rescue firefighter Mike M., who died in the north tower on 9/11 along with 10 of his mates from Rescue 1, had 3 children, all sons, the middle one (Ian) of whom, was born in September 1996. This would have made him an older (and presumably bigger) 4 year old in the summer of 2001.
    Ride with the old guys? Mike M. was 39 on 9/11, the youngest save one (a 29 year old) who rode the rig down to Box 8087 ( aka 1 WTC) that morning. Also note that Rescue 1's FF Joe A. was the oldest fireman in the Department at age 63 (unheard of, by the way). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_workers_killed_in_the_September_11_attacks

    FDNY Rescue 1 firehouse is located at 530 W 43rd St, New York, NY (midtown Manhattan), just 9 blocks north of the Empire State Building, which is on W 34th St. If you look over some of baby rn's later posts she mentions that her son often drew pictures of the Empire State Building with a firefighter (presumably himself) in an elevator on the 14th floor. He also talked about evacuation plans for this iconic skyscraper, as well as its fire safety shortcomings. This suggests that baby rn's son's PP may have been a fire officer with extensive experience and firefighting knowledge of this part of Manhattan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  30. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I went through the entire list of fallen firefighters again looking for other potential "Mike"s (actually "Michael"s) that may have been baby rn's son's PP's firefighter friend named "Mike". I went through the bio's of all the Michaels listed of the 343 fallen firefighters. There was only one other candidate: FF Michael O., Ladder 35. He was the only Michael who had 2 to 3 kids with one of them, a boy, at or close to age 4 (Jason, age 5) around the time of 9/11. Here is a brief bio:

    "Michael O., 42‚ firefighter‚ FDNY‚ Ladder 35…. His family was his joy. Described as ‘just a big kid’ by his wife‚ ... [Michael] turned the front lawn of their home in East Islip‚ N.Y.‚ into a stadium‚ where he and his three boys played football and soccer. . . .That was before the Twin Towers fell, before the enormity of that day’s tragedy became apparent, and [his wife] was trying to rush their sons – C., 11, J., 8 and Jason, 5 – off to school."

    Here is the location of the Engine 40/ Ladder 35 firehouse, which also happens to be in Manhattan (in or very near Lincoln Center in uptown Manhattan)

    FDNY Engine 40/Ladder 35
    Fire station in New York City, New York
    Located in: Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts
    131 Amsterdam Ave, New York, NY 10023
     

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