Am I a new soul?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by milkdrops, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. milkdrops

    milkdrops New Member

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    My friend (who believes in past lives) has said to me that he thinks I am a new soul.

    I have always considered myself unusually nieve. Does anyone know how one can possibly tell if a soul is that of a new one with no previous past lives? are there perhaps ways to tell or read that individual?

    Any input would be appreciated thx.
     
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  2. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Milkdrops,


    Quite honestly, I don't believe there is any such thing...


    Certainly you have lived MANY lives before. The mere fact that you are here, sharing and taking an interest in reincarnation and spiritual matters is a clear indication that you are far from being a "new soul"... :thumbsup:


    I myself have always been very naive in this lifetime, but I know for sure that I, as a Soul/Spirit, am a very "old soul".
     
  3. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    I don't think there are anymore new souls on earth, either. You could be a young soul, but I doubt even that as you are here.


    I believe younger souls tend to live by the rules, respect authorities, look for fame and fortune etc. whereas older souls are more eccentric, not interested in money and career - being even "lazy" etc. It it important to note, however that it's not any better to be an old than a young soul.


    These are just genralisations, but I guess my point is that I don't think anyone on this planet is going through their first incarnation, and very few people coming to this forum are even very young souls.


    Karoliina
     
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  4. michaldembinski

    michaldembinski Senior Registered

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    I wish to graciously disagree with Charles and Karoliina. I'm convinced of the existence of old, young and new souls residing in human form. Two reasons - one, the mathematics (a billion humans 100 years ago, six billion today), secondly, I can see the difference. New souls ('new' as in 'new to humans') have also been around since the dawn of time - though are living a first human incarnation. New souls are in a hurry, impatient. The plus side of this is drive, the minus is a lower level of awareness.


    Having said all this, the very act of asking the question here suggests that you are not a brand-new soul in human form.


    Michal
     
  5. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Milkdrops,

    May I ask why you feel this way? What does being naive mean to you? Why would it matter if you were old or new? Be careful not to get caught up in New Age concepts. Look within and perhaps meditate one why you feel this way. You might be surprised as to what you find.


    Perhaps you have had many lives - with no education? Perhaps you have had sheltered life times. Perhaps you lived in third world countries and are now in a modern one? *S*S*S Culture shock - ya know? ;)
     
  6. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    Milkdrops, and all ... I am really curious about this as well, since I don't seem to remember other PLs other than one which I believe to be very recent. Even my 'flash' of the temple of Nike I think could be a memory of a trip there, visiting the ruins and not necessarily being there during the time in which it functioned as a viable structure. Milkdrops, I understand completely what I think you are feeling.


    However, I have to concede that this may be due to a PL in which either/both of us was sheltered, as Deborah has suggested. In the PL I remember, I was the youngest and I had the support of my siblings. The situations I remember are safe and familiar. Now, I am in a brand new environment in which everything is unfamiliar. You know what it feels like to me?..... any of you play video games? It feels like I have just reached a new level in the game and I am attempting to find the clues, rules, and abilities on this new level. And the solution which will take me to the next level.


    I also feel a bit like coming here, I am getting cheats on how to grasp it.


    With the boom in the population, there has to be new souls. Unless, souls are dividing and multiplying, which I find difficult to believe given our very intrinsic belief that each of us is an individual.


    But, a thought... If everything follows fundamental patterns (which seem to be the case) and if the self is devised of energy..life..consciousness, then it might be possible for energy..life..consciousness to branch off with new buds, like plants, seeding off to produce a new line. Separate, yet connected by the initial shoot. Is it possible for the soul..consciousness to have offspring?


    According to string/M theory, everything is connected. I am again bringing this to a post in the hopes that someone out there has some knowledge of this theory and can bring some possible insight to this new science which I think may be related.
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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  8. vanhalen50one50

    vanhalen50one50 Senior Registered

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    I will agree with Charles on this one. I believe that each and every one of us has lived many many lives, yes there could possibly be "new" souls coming out all the time but I find that hard to believe. I believe that there are gazillions of souls in the Spirit Realm in between lives, more are incarnated and return everyday. As Deborah has suggested you could have had lives in which you were sheltered or had no to little education. Just because you cannot remember the memories now does not mean that you are a "new" soul it simply means that you are not ready for certain memories as of now. But as you grow and learn more you might "toughen up" so to speak and be ready for new/first memories. Try to take it slow once you do start to remember, you have to take in the emotions and still be able to feel good and work properly. :)

    That is a great analogy! :thumbsup: I'd never thought of that, it certainly does make sense! :)
     
  9. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    Deborah, yes, I did enjoy the thread, but what I seemed to not find was that all experience is subject to the interpretation of the mind. Everything we experience is simply signals sent to our brains. So what is the difference between a dream in which the light seen or the hill felt being simply a signal sent to our brains and everyday experience in which the light or the hill are signals sent to our brains?


    Everything we deem as reality is merely signals which our brain manifests into an understanding of reality.


    And while I had to laugh out loud (with recognition) while reading Fizywigs insight to science and our attempt to understand the metaphysical (great insights and observation!!!) it still does not address the point that we may be gleaning insight, piece by piece, to the workings of the soul and reincarnation through science. Just because we may grasp on to the scraps of the ever changing 'clues' brought to us by scientists does not mean that some of those 'clues' may not hold some insight or hold building blocks to a better understanding.


    I may be alone here, but I firmly believe that science will eventually lead us to a better understanding of reincarnation. It has to... if reincarnation is real. Everything follows simple rules of nature which are yet too complicated for us to understand, IMO. It's like driving down the same road every day and only just now seeing a park bench that you had not noticed before. Been there for years, but because you have been so rapped up in your everyday experience, you hadn't noticed it until that one certain day when you do. Just because you didn't notice it before doesn't mean it wasn't there, just that you had not seen it yet, therefor, it did not exist in your reality till you saw it.


    I may have read through the thread too quickly, so, if this was addressed, my apologies.
     
  10. michaldembinski

    michaldembinski Senior Registered

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    Is the mind the same as the brain? Science has yet to locate the seat of human consiousness.

    Not alone; I say that one day science and spirituality will merge. Religions have to evolve, technology gives us more and better tools to communicate with each other and share our souls' pasts, validate inexplicable feelings and anomalous memories; religions that stick to ancient dogma will become sidelined. At the same time, science will admit to vast areas beyond its scope.


    What keeps an atom spinning for billions of years?


    Michal
     
  11. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    Good point, Michal. Personally, I think that the brain is the source in which the mind/soul gleans information. The brain is the wet-ware/hardware which experiences the tangible, and the mind/soul-consciousness is that which taps into that information. The two are connected, but if separated or severed, the mind/soul continues. I don't think that the brain can continue with out the mainframe (the mind/soul), but the mainframe can continue without the port into the tangible.


    I see it a bit like the mind/soul/self is the mainframe and the present life/brain is the port into the present in which information and experience is gained and stored, and uploaded.


    The brain is the physical, the mind/self is the nonphysical plugged into the present physical.
     
  12. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi everyone,

    Well, I consider this a misunderstanding, because there is nothing to say that there is not life, and consequently reincarnation, in other places. I don't believe that this little planet of ours is the only "realm of existence" in which souls can reincarnate. This being so, there is no reason for there not to have been an increase in Earth's population without the existence of "new souls" or "soul splitting".

    If this were so, then "consciousness" would be grey and would weigh about 3.5kg... :) I nowadays believe that our "consciousness" or "soul" might be an aspect of the quantum field. If this is true, then all souls have existed since the "Big Bang", which was also the origin of the quantum field and the Planck Scale:

     
  13. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    I Like this! What form would a soul take at the very beginning, as matter is forming into mass and gravity shaping and directing time? Do you think all souls were one before the big-bang split matter up and cast it out in every direction?


    Really liked the quote, as well!:thumbsup: Who is it and where did you find it?
     
  14. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Archival,

    Quite honestly, who could say??? :)


    Here is a link to the article from Discover called "Soul Search" from which I used the above quote:


    http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/soul-search
     
  15. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    Archival,


    You asked,



    "Do you think all souls were one before the big-bang split matter up and cast it out in every direction?"








    --> This is a fascinating question, which gets to the very nature of souls and spirit. It begs the question, how are souls "created"? To me, there is one field of spirit ("spirit-matter") that exists universe-wide. Souls are merely points of concentrated spirituality. Therefore, I would say the spirituality-field that souls come from has existed for at least as long as the universe has existed (and possibly even longer). Also, it seems to me that we souls are continuing to mature as the eons go by, which means we are continuing to concentrate spirituality into our souls more and more everyday.


    This also begs the two questions: At the beginning, there must have only been a general field of spirituality, with no souls being clearly defined. At what point did spirituality start condensing into souls? At what point did these "points of consciousness" become concentrated enough to be called souls? (I have spent decades looking for answers to these questions.) What do you think?
     
  16. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    Hi burtaro,


    honestly, I am not sure what I think on this one. It is because of this thread that I only just started to ponder on it. And at work today, I found myself thinking more on it when I should have been more focused on other things... oh well.


    I've come to a couple of very tentative conclusions (or rather, questions). If everything that exists in the universe existed from the very beginning, then the substance of the soul was present at the very beginning. If everything in the universe has a life cycle, suns, planets, galaxies, then it is possible that the soul has a life cycle. When a sun explodes, the matter and energy does not disappear, but becomes part of other, new things. A continuous recycling. But all of this is physical, and while the soul might be linked to energy, I do not think it has a physicality that can be observed at this time.


    But, back to the topic ... new souls. So, I want to pose this question, and I hope that it does not offend or go into realms which are not pertinent to this site... Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the soul has a life cycle, but like everything else in the universe, it does not go out of existence at the end of that life cycle. And if we follow the example (and I am a firm believer that we should look to nature for clues to understanding) of the sun when it reaches maturity and explodes, seeding new stars and planets, so forth ... is it possible that when a soul matures it also in a sense explodes to seed new souls and those new souls go forth into a new life cycle of maturing? This could explain the paradox of population explosion and where the souls are all coming from.


    Now, I am going to jump onto the other side of the fence and offer up an alternative explanation. And once again I am referencing nature as the example. Everything in a life cycle follows a pattern much like a heart beat or tide coming in and out. The bell curve. What if the presence of souls on earth follow that same curve, and right now we are at high tide. When the tide is out, or when the soul count is low, it is because those in transition are simply in that place of transition. Infinity is a very long time:) so just because we are at high tide right now does not necessarily mean that it will always remain at high tide. This would suggest that each soul remains one soul, but the number of souls present at one time is dependent upon the tide.


    I tried to be as clear as possible, and these are just my pondering today. I will really enjoy debate!


    *edited by me: when I say that every thing follows certain patterns, this is just MY observation.
     
  17. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Great ponderations, Buntaro... :thumbsup:


    Hi Archive,


    It seems that the Soul is capable of absorbing energy rather than releasing it, and therefore it does not "burn itself out", such as a star. It is therefore infinite and eternal, and each Soul remains unique and individual.


    Again regarding new souls, each Soul is unique and indivisible. New Souls might even be created, but IMO not from another Soul... The increase in population is, I believe, merely due to the fact that more souls are incarnate on our planet at the same time at this moment.
     
  18. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    Hi Charles Stuart,


    What do mean that the soul is capable of absorbing energy? Could you explain further? Really curious on this end.:thumbsup:
     
  19. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Archival,

    Actually "absorbs" would not be the best term, but rather "attracts". The Soul is capable of "attracting" energy. It is in this way that the Soul is capable of forming its "Spirit" or "Spiritual Body", by attracting the more subtle energy forms of the spiritual realms. And perhaps it is also in this same way that it "attracts" energy from the physical realm to form our physical bodies.


    To me, the purpose of reincarnation is to progressively increase and expand our levels of consciousness, knowledge and awareness. We, as Soul/Spirits, are in an evolutionary process, just as all other things in our known universe, evolving from lesser to higher consciousness through the "learning-by-experience" process of reincarnation. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Fyi


    About increasing populations - Dr. Ian Stevenson looked at the estimated total amount of people who have lived here on earth - ranging from 69 billion to 96 billion.


    He figured that each soul/person on the earth - which was currently 5 billion when he made this calculation - would have had 15 to 20 past lives.


    {Information obtained from the book The Case for Reincarnation - by Joe Fisher}
     
  21. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    This would not go against my thought on high tide. And perhaps I did not give a good enough analogy. Let me try this one, (and I am only speaking of cycles), cicada follow a pattern of emergence, many of them a 17 year cycle. However, there are still some that emerge outside of the population boom of every 17 years. Let me state, that I am not talking about animal reincarnation here, but pattern. The possible point I am trying to make is that perhaps souls incarnate follow such a pattern of emergence, and right now we might be on an upswing, or a time in which there are more souls which come to be physical.

    I am still not understanding what it is you are suggesting. :eek: I'm sorry. I do think that the soul is connected to energy, but I am not convinced yet that energy is the sum of the whole. And while I will agree that there is the possibility of attraction or absorption of energy, I do not agree that there is no releasing of such attraction on an equal level. Let me explain, for every action there is an equal reaction. I am horrible at math, but the basic principle makes sense to me (so Deborah, if you could explain the math to me :confused: on Dr. Ian Stevenson's idea, I would really be appreciative :thumbsup: ).


    I am not trying to create confusion here, but explore the idea of new soul vs 'always been' soul. If there is no new soul, then there must be an explanation to the mergence of the population growth (that is if we all agree that there is one soul for each individual and that one soul has always been). The other side to this debate is the possibility of a new soul. If that possibility is a real potential, then I think we should explore how that may be possible.


    To be honest, I am not convinced yet on either side of the debate, but I am willing to explore the possibilities.
     
  22. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    HI Archival,

    I will have to look back to the original source. I cannot promise you I can explain it fully.:tongue: Math is also not my forte'. ;) I will try though. :butbut:
    I have company this weekend - perhaps early next week. : angel
     
  23. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    :) :) :) :) :) Thanks Deborah! I have tried a little bit of research online but have not been able to find the specifics, I may need to get the book. Math is by no means my forte either! What ever you can pass my way will be greatly appreciated, since I am very fascinated by this topic. :D Take your time, no hurry on this end.
     
  24. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    I am not much good at mathematics either but I believe the idea behind the Stevenson figures is that if between 69 and 96 billion people have lived on this earth up until now it means that an increase in population would result in souls incarnating more frequently and not necessarily in new souls be created to make up for the extra bodies here on earth.


    For example, in about 600 BC when there were a lot less people on the earth souls may have incarnated once every three to four hundred years, there may still have been 6 billion souls but there were just taking turns in coming to earth as there weren't enough bodies for them to be here all at once.


    But now that the population on earth is around six billion souls may come back to earth within a few months or years of their deaths in one body to start life in a new body almost instantly due to the increased availability of bodies.


    Not that I am dismissing the idea of new souls altogether, as I think that may also be possible, but I think it is probably more a combination of the two with what Stevenson suggested being more prevalent. I believe that Stevenson did the math in order to prove that reincarnation cannot be debunked just by an increasing population.


    Hope that helps!
     
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  25. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Milkdrops, you have an extraordinary knack for asking the most simple, yet intriguing questions!


    You have all been having a very interesting discussion while I have been in bed nursing a bad flu (it is the middle of winter over here. Brrr!).


    My thoughts / observations / additions are these:


    Most of the universe is made up of what has fairly recently been dubbed 'dark energy' and 'dark matter'. Nobody knows exactly what it is or exactly what it is for, or exactly how it behaves, but they know that the world of matter which we are familiar with is actually only about 10% of what makes up the universe. (Yes really). People are currently working feverishly trying to work out how to marry dark energy, dark matter, regular physics and quantum physics together, but at the moment nobody knows how it all works. At best there are a few tentative and hotly debated ideas being put forward (most of which I confess I don't understand either). So, to base one's assumptions on the behaviour/characteristics of the soul being the same as those of matter is not going to get you very far in my view. Maybe the soul is made of dark energy so therefore we have no idea how it behaves or what its attributes are?


    I believe the soul is certainly not made of matter. You can't measure it, weigh it, dissect it or locate it. It exists, however, in my view, just not in this 'dimension'. It interfaces with this dimension through the mind and the body, but is not the same thing. If it is not made of matter, it does not have to obey the laws of matter as do stars, galaxies, trees and bodies. It does not live in the world of time, so it is not born, it does not grow old, does not age, does not burn out and does not die. It simply 'is'. The 'old/new' question is therefore nonsensical. Perhaps people can have racked up more or less mileage on Earth though. I will allow that. That might give them a more 'worldly wise' characteristic stance or else a more 'enlightened' attitude, depending on their personal inclinations/experiences /lessons learned.


    We are not going to run out of souls. Souls are not sausages. Even so, even if we restrict ourselves only to Earth, there is enough 'soul' in the multiverse to go around for everyone to have plenty. The age of the earth and of homo sapiens (not to mention his ancestors) is constantly being pushed back further and further into time, so there is plenty of time for every soul on earth to have had many incarnations. Many estimates of ancient peoples populations and time lines are grossly underestimated (sometimes for policial reasons, sometimes just ignorance). There is a whole civilization with a large population that supposedly lasted for thousands of years in Atlantis, for instance, which is never included in the population calculations you will usually read, because it can't be 'proven'. There are no doubt others as well.


    All this is only if we restrict ourselves (very sensibly) to one single time line. If we start getting 'fractal' with possible different future/time line scenarios, everything gets multiplied out of all possibility of computation, so let's not even upset ourselves by thinking about that! :laugh:
     
  26. archival

    archival Senior Registered

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    tanguerra, glad to see you back! Hope you are feeling better. Excellent thoughts!


    Green26, thank you, makes perfect sense now!

    Exactly. And a very good point to bring up. I am going to put myself out there and say that I think once it (dark matter) is better understood, the basic principles will not be very different than what we understand with matter right now. Here is my explanation to what I mean: By defining it as dark 'matter' there must be some connection to the understanding of this 'stuff' to our understanding of present known matter. From my very limited knowledge of dark matter it behaves in such a way to make its presence suspected by gravity. What exactly is gravity? This is maybe the BIG question. What has been documented is that gravity is connected to matter, and to time ... and that is a whole 'nother can of worms.


    But the idea of dark matter connected to the soul is a very interesting question. Is dark matter fibrous? Is it the connective tissue? What is its energy? What time frame does it exist in? But back to idea of dark matter being possibly connected to the soul.... what then would separate each individual soul out from the next?

    Excellent statement. But the question still remains about the nature of energy and its connection to matter. If we are all in agreement that the soul is not built upon the nature of matter but upon some connection to energy, then we must consider the principles of energy. What is energy made up of? From my very limited understanding, energy is connected to matter, that energy is the byproduct of matter, and matter in turn is effected by energy (a symbiosis relationship of sorts), AND ... energy can not be created or uncreated, it changes form, just like the building blocks of matter. If energy is connected to matter, and matter follows certain patterns, then what is it that may make energy follow different patterns if there is such a connection? Why would energy follow different rules? If the soul is energy and energy can change form, then what is it that makes it impossible for the soul to not change form, outside of the physical? I am posing this question in the hopes that we may explore it, not to upset.

    This is exactly my point. When a star dies, it does not DIE. Nor does the tree, or the body. The stuff that makes up each of these things continues but changes form, is recycled.

    This makes perfect sense, but what about awareness? Has this always been as well?

    LOL!!! Missed your sense of humor! I agree. There must be the right number of everything if everything is to exist. The physics of what is can not be random if everything continues. Let me state again that I am bad at math, but the principles make sense to me. And, let me state that all of this is just my opinion.

    Are you suggesting that we are part of ONE soul?


    The whole 'time' thing is I think very important as well. And I hope that we may explore this as I think it may be pertinent to the idea of 'new' soul.
     
  27. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi Archival,

    Nothing, the Soul/Spirit can apparently take on various forms according to its consciousness.

    The "spiritual body" or "spirit" will also have a release (loss) of energy. My view is that somehow it might even be for this reason that a Soul/Spirit ir forced to reincarnate, as I believe the "spiritual body" might run out of its capacity to renew itself just as the physical body does. The "Soul", however, seems to consist of something entirely different. My question here has always been: what kind of energy is "thought"? Not just the chemical/electrical interconnections of the brain, but "thought" as energy form, to the point where it is capable of affecting matter at quantum levels. If we can find this answer, then I believe we will be close to determining what the "Soul" really is...


    Regarding population, my view is that souls are not merely restricted to Earth, therefore there are other realms in which to reincarnate, but this is a point that is out of the Forum's posting guidelines.
     
  28. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi again Archival,

    It is nowadays known from quantum physics that ALL things are "entangled" and therefore, in a sense, ONE... Each individual consciousness or "soul", however, seems to maintain its unity and uniqueness. This is known as "the gift of eternal life". I do believe that, as we progress in consciousness through our sequential reincarnations, we come closer to the ONE (which, to me, would correspond to the "Original Source" or "God" or whichever other name one may wish to use), but without, however, ever losing our own individual consciousness or "Soul"...
     
  29. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Charles,


    According to David Bohm the universe manifests in three mutually ENFOLDING aspects. Matter, energy and meaning.

    In other words - he is suggesting that meaning is not an abstract or ethereal quality having its existence only in the mind; but it is an inherent and essential part of our overall reality.


    He even goes so far as to suggest that in the ACT of interpreting the universe - we are creating the universe. He goes on to say - that........ "In a way, we could say that we are the totality of our meanings." So Charles, your understanding is uniquely your own, because of your belief's - which are the result of the ENFOLDING of meaning, matter and energy you direct toward it. At least that is my understanding.


    Archival - are you familiar with The Holographic Universe by Micheal Talbot? It is about David Bohm's work. If you haven't read it - you might enjoy it. It was written in 1988 but lays a very good premise for what is being discussed here. ;)
     
  30. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    I would also suggest watching a film called "What the "bleep" do you know?", which goes into quantum physics and aspects of the mind.


    Deborah, while you believe that "we are creating the universe", I think you are excluding the fact that we are not the only creators.


    My own experience is not based on what my thoughts and beliefs have created, but in what came to me externally. I was once approached by a man who came out of the blue and "saw" all I was going through without ever having known me. I had the confirmation of my life as Charlie Stuart from two different sources that were external to me, and not my own. A spiritual entity told me my second wife was pregnant of my daughter when she was just two weeks pregnant and neither of us could have imagined it. I could list quite a few personal cases in which my knowledge and beliefs were founded that absolutely were not created by myself. They were, in fact, kind of "slapped" in my face far more than anything else.


    My beliefs are also not "uniquely my own". They are partaken by thousands of others, mainly here in Brazil, and have their origins in direct mediumnic communications with spiritual entities (not that such manifestations are to be taken to word until carefully scrutinized). And the greatest beauty of it is that just about all lines of belief ring true when they can be unified and truly understood...


    I agree we are co-creators. I agree that we create our own reality. But I am convinced that there are also other far greater forces at work in the process of "Creation", including the Greater Force that created ALL souls, in other words, all of us.
     

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