Am I Paying Off Karma?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by WriteNow, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    I once watched a very interesting documentary about black young boys born in certain African countries, where they were great playing soccer and then foreign soccer team managers came to recruit them to play in Europe. They would promise magnificent contracts and lots of money, to become a "soccer star", the dream of everyone born in poverty. Well, they would come, of course, and worked for supposedly a fortune for them, which is nothing in an European country, and a year or two later the manager would break the contract for no reason, leaving them high and dry, unable to find another job. Most of them would end up doing drugs, or would become homeless, not too different from any other African immigrant. There was one though, who overcame that phase and after living in quite harsh conditions, would be strong enough to start a new life and help all those deceived boys who would meet his same fate. So, I think this is a great example of how people born in similar circumstances and who had to go through the same unfortunate event, can react differently and BUILD a different life. You can have the same cards, but you can play differently and win.

    Of course, maybe for someone as you, who is only thinking of becoming rich, won't find the prize in any of these experiences. But I can bet this black boy's life is much more worthy and rewarding than one where you didn't have to make efforts for anything. It all depends on what you call "success". If life gives you lemons, probably you won't make pineapples, but you can leave those lemons to rot, or make the best lemon pie you've ever seen. That's where the challenge is. Life is a challenge. We are not here to live like spoiled children, as seems to be your wish.
     
  2. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    No, not their life to come, just the initial circumstances. Then you can do whatever with those circumstances. Of course, they may limit you, or maybe not, that depends.

    I agree to some extent. "What will occur" is too large. Some events might be preplanned, for example that I will lose my legs in an accident. But then it's my choice to keep fighting and climb the Everest with prosthetic legs, or just fall into a depression and spend the rest of my life complaining in a hospital's bed. Don't you see the difference? I think that's mainly what life is about. As I said in my previous post, it's a challenge. You may have planned some of those challenges before incarnating, with other souls. But I think accidents can also happen. Anyway, you have to decide what to do. Aren't many NDErs asked even inside that tunnel if they want to come back or not (not all, as some are pushed back too, but probably because that's better for them)? It's always your choice. Always.
     
  3. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    To require someone to "keep fighting and climb the Everest with prosthetic legs" is too difficult an ask for most people.

    The question still comes down to: why do some have it easy automatically and others must have it 100x harder but console themselves with their lot? Why couldn't their souls have just been born into the lives of the bodies born in easier circumstances.
     
  4. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi JustinTime,

    At this point, your complaint has really just become one about the fact that this world ain't a great place to be (materially speaking) for the vast majority of humanity and never has been.

    Think about it. If reincarnation is completely random, then everyone will average out over time, getting the same percentage of rich versus poor lives (and you can put this dichotomy into whatever terms you like). That's fair enough, though I don't think that is what is happening. If what is usually called Karma (in some strict justice sense) is the rule, then everyone is getting their just deserts, and you as well as your parents are either getting what you deserve in this life or will be "evened up" in some future lifetime. Once again, fair enough I suppose, if that is what you want to see. In what most of those who have studied the evidence currently see as some type of educational-evolutional-developmental system is true, all will likewise go through the process and hopefully develop in due course so that they either are not bothered by material circumstance (or as Baro-san emphasizes, can avoid/overcome them). Either way, they more-or-less transcend the problem. Once again, fairness should not be a complaint.

    So, what you're really complaining about at this point is the fact that ANYONE goes through adverse circumstances at ANY time that someone else does not have to SIMULTANEOUSLY experience. We can't make this problem go away for you. Hopefully, as the world goes on, things will get better and better for everyone and this will not be such a problem. But the world is largely what we make it, and humans are far from perfect. If you want to live in such a world, you should be aiming right now to do what you can where you are to make it a better place. This includes trying to be a better person yourself. However, you should also get used to the fact that--barring some kind of radical divine intervention--this is going to be a very long term project.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  5. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    S&S, thanks for your reply. Yes I agree I have grievances, but I don't think they are unreasonable. I like what you said, but my only stipulation is what you said would be perfectly ok and acceptable, but ONLY if reincarnation and mind-body dualism exists. If it turns out we don't get subsequent lives, and one life is basically all we get, then yes, I do think the logical action in some situations where you have no way out and things have no way of getting better would be suicide.

    If it is a proven fact, some day, that reincarnation for sure, 100%, exists, and that there is some type of spiritual balancing across lives, then what you say makes a lot of sense and that people's suffering would be far more tolerable and understandable.
     
  6. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You seem to have found your premise of fairness on disbelieving a theory that most members of this forum consider anywhere from plausible to true, i.e. that reincarnation is a fact. Given this difference in starting points, it's not surprising that you find our answers untenable.

    I'm curious why you're venting here, specifically, if you're so certain reincarnation can't be valid. How can anything we say about balance over lifetimes be of use to you if you prefer to believe this is your only life? Is there a reason you're venting to us, specifically?

    Nobody here can tell you "This is the one and only truth for all," with any more certainty than everyone else who knows their own version of "the one and only truth for all." In the end, it comes down to your own exploration and testing of the available information over time. We can explain to you what we have learned and experienced, but we cannot proclaim it in a way that will inevitably convince you, at least not without behaving more religiously than scientifically.

    In my own exploration of reincarnation it seems clear that everything balances out one way or another, just over a longer span of time than a single lifetime. Others here and elsewhere say the same. That is where we are coming from because reincarnation is the central discussion point of this forum.

    If you discount our responses because you think reincarnation is an unfounded theory, then perhaps you will benefit more if you look for comfort among those whose perspective is set on a single lifetime. They may offer responses that will encourage you more than ours will. I'd hate to see you miss out on ideas that will be helpful simply because you've arrived in a forum full of people whose theories you can't trust.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  7. WriteNow

    WriteNow New Member

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    Anybody remember me? :)

    So anyway, I am working hard on accepting where I am and just living my life. If I did choose at least these general circumstances then fighting against them or being bitter might make the lesson null and I don't want that.

    Things could be far worse. I could be starving.

    I am just very afraid that I have done such a bad job dealing that perhaps I will have to come back and live this abused a life again, and I can not bear that. Please God, no.

    I have been doing a lot of crying lately.

    But you know, I do appreciate those who answered this thread. Your efforts have not gone unappreciated. I do appreciate it, very much. Thank you.
     
  8. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi WriteNow,

    We definitely remember you! ;) JustinTime picked up on the issue and and added some sub-themes, but you're still in our thoughts. In any case, I don't think that you are doing poorly in dealing with the issues you are facing, and crying can actually be not only appropriate, but a spiritually beneficial exercise/response to your circumstances. So, keep hanging in there!

    JustinTime,

    What are the possibilities. First, if this is all we get, why kill yourself? That just shortens your time in the sun. "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die!" Your only way to spit in the eye of the universe is to grab for the gusto and get the maximum amount of pleasure (or accomplishment if that is what motivates you) out of your one lifetime. As the poet said, "Do not go gentle into that good night, . . . rage, rage against the dying of the light"! If the universe is that sh__ty, outrage is more in order and definitely more sustaining than self-pity. Suicide just means that a very bad universe gets its way even sooner. No surrender! Second, if there is something hereafter, then you have to consider whether what you do now--including suicide--will affect what happens to you afterwards. Also, it means that this ain't all you get and it may be better in phase 2 (whatever it is). Either way, killing yourself is a stupid decision.

    However, the real point is that you are going to have to reach your own conclusions on all of the above. Most people use some combination of intuition and reason in reaching decisions. As a young male, you'll probably be weighted very heavily towards the latter (at least in your own mind). Either way, you ain't going to be able to get around the "homework" involved. You're going to have to do the necessary reading and study, and use your reason/intuition (in whatever combination suits you) to come to a conclusion--even if it is only a tentative one. Yeah, this will probably involve tearing up your existing paradigms and trashing most or all of your current viewpoints. Get used to it. This is what growth entails. We think we know what it all means, and then life forces us to revise and re-evaluate. Sometimes the edifice we've constructed is such a poor fit in terms of reality that the whole thing has to come down. Sometimes just portions at a time--but don't think you're any better than the rest of us in this respect. You thought you knew how it all worked--you were wrong. Been there, done that . . . repeatedly.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  9. Native Son

    Native Son Active Member

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    You are not alone in your feelings and doubts! I for one have been, and still am going through these changes in thinking. Sometimes I'm so depressed that I think myself into a corner and make my situation so black and bleak that I leave no escape for myself. And only through time and other's encouraging words do I begin to see a light that shows me a possible way out. Where do we find these encouraging words? They are everywhere, if you look for them. This very forum has them, just as Sea&Sky provided. Concentrate on the few things that you have control of, because we cannot control many of the things we are forced to deal with. You mentioned God, and pleaded that you be spared another life like one you are experiencing. Well, God is a good place for finding encouragement. Citing an old saying, which is more of a prayer, and goes like this:

    God, grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the WISDOM to know the difference.

    Personally, I found similar words in Homer:

    Homer in the Odyssey represents Odysseus doing in the words– ’He beat his breast, and thus reproached his heart: Endure, my heart; far worse hast thou endured!’

    Do you think that Homer wrote this under the idea that the soul is a harmony capable of being led by the affections of the body, and not rather of a nature which should lead and master them–herself a far diviner thing than any harmony?

    Let your soul guide you, because the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil. Try to help others, which in the end will be good for you too. Life is like a prison, there is no escaping it, because beyond question, the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world! But it is not a bad prison, but a good one, overall.

    Some persons will say no more than that they trust in God, and that they leave all to Him. It is a great part of true religion not to pretend to know more than we do. Others when they quit this world are comforted with the hope ’That they will see and know their friends in heaven.’ But it is better to leave them in the hands of God and to be assured that ’no evil shall touch them.’ There are others again to whom the belief in a divine personality has ceased to have any longer a meaning; yet they are satisfied that the end of all is not here, but that something still remains to us, ’and some better thing for the good than for the evil.’ They are persuaded, in spite of their theological nihilism, that the ideas of justice and truth and holiness and love are realities. They cherish an enthusiastic devotion to the first principles of morality. Through these they see, or seem to see, darkly, and in a figure, that the soul is immortal. But besides differences of theological opinion which must ever prevail about things unseen, the hope of immortality is weaker or stronger in men at one time of life than at another; it even varies from day to day. It comes and goes; the mind, like the sky, is apt to be overclouded. Other generations of men may have sometimes lived under an ’eclipse of faith,’ to us the total disappearance of it might be compared to the ’sun falling from heaven.’ And we may sometimes have to begin again and acquire the belief for ourselves; or to win it back again when it is lost. It is really weakest in the hour of death. For Nature, like a kind mother or nurse, lays us to sleep without frightening us; physicians, who are the witnesses of such scenes, say that under ordinary circumstances there is no fear of the future. Often, as Plato tells us, death is accompanied ’with pleasure.’ When the end is still uncertain, the cry of many a one has been, ’Pray, that I may be taken.’ The last thoughts even of the best men depend chiefly on the accidents of their bodily state. Pain soon overpowers the desire of life; old age, like the child, is laid to sleep almost in a moment. The long experience of life will often destroy the interest which mankind have in it. So various are the feelings with which different persons draw near to death; and still more various the forms in which imagination clothes it.
     
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  10. WriteNow

    WriteNow New Member

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    Wow. Such beautiful words and so much to think about. Thank you both.
     

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