• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Archetypes in meditation, dreams, and visions

Mere Dreamer

Senior Registered
I had a vision experience during meditation earlier this year that I have come to think of as essentially walking into a "living" tarot card.

At the time, I knew very little about tarot and had only casually used an online layout with its basic descriptions because they tended to help me notice how I was feeling, either by highlighting or contrasting what was going on in my head. Even now, I don't know much. I've read a lot of mythology from around the world, which naturally gives me a wide basis for associations, but I can't say I've ever studied the structure of myth on purpose.

---

All this to say, I entered my personal, inner space, asked a question of my guides, and found myself looking into a dark mirror on the wall, with a candle nearby. (I didn't know much about dark mirrors at the time, so I didn't think much about it.)

I entered the mirror and found a night scene, mild hills stretching out with dark mountains in the distance, like you would see under slight moonlight. There was a pillar with an robed, ancient man suspended in the air, crossing the pillar (making a cross, visually) apparently sleeping or dead. As I approached, he uprighted himself (without ever touching the ground) and spoke to me.

I was requesting a clear path, then realized the scene had been a visual trick. He had been hovering over a straight path to the horizon that had seemed to be a pillar from my position. But the path disappeared as soon as I realized it, and the wise man told me that I will only see my path looking back, so it's useless to look for it before I take a step. Then the scene melted away into another that was equally meaningful but didn't really have characters.

Recently I was researching the tarot and realized that there is a card with many of these elements. While the old man didn't demonstrably hold a lantern, he was easily seen even without light, if that makes sense.

----

Last week my best friend had a long dream with me by her side, though I don't know if I had the dream, too. As she reached the part I'll describe below, I had that feeling you get with deja vu.

It started out with the usual life-influenced craziness then segued into a mystical interaction with a wise woman who gave us a warning about not being drawn into the craziness outside.

She came to find us, brought us through many hallways into her kitchen, and served us tea and stew of various flavors, while generally making us feel at peace and welcome. Mica said that we could see into her walled garden/orchard from the kitchen, but when I asked if we could walk there, she said, "Nobody enters my garden but me."

After her warning not to agree to an approaching invitation, one of the characters from her earlier dreams came to find us and we ended up back in the earlier portion of the dream where we were invited to join a dance. We declined and ended up wandering a labyrinth of hallways in an attempt to leave the house.

----

I haven't come to any conclusions. But the strength of the characters in these two instances was much more than the average dream or glimpse. They showed up with a great deal of weight and their presence shifted perspective, mood, and ... well, everything about the experience. I felt it, even second-hand, when Mica described her dream to me.

I'm wondering if any of you have had similar experiences with archetypal characters.

What do you think?
 
I am guessing that your dream came in the spring. Mica's dream, appearing in the fall is a wonderful counterpart to yours; male vs female. Your dreams are fairly dripping with symbolism, and at the right, "magical" time of year for them, too!


I want to start with the mirror. There are those who think that the life we live here is just a reflection of what is on the other side (as above, so below). Thus, by looking in the mirror, it is thought, one can actually "see clearly." Have you looked into scrying? You must have. Your forum name, I must point out, sounds a lot like "mirror dreamer." Mirrors are a threshold for "spirit" to cross, much like dreams.


The pillar, the man, the cross; all of these are symbols of the male god. The labyrinth, the woman, the garden, on the other hand; these represent the goddess.


The Hermit card, is indeed apt, but what I thought of when I read this, is the Hanged man. His floating quality, seeming to be sleeping, in the position of the cross (hung up on the world-tree) all point to this.
 
Blueheart said:
I am guessing that your dream came in the spring. Mica's dream, appearing in the fall is a wonderful counterpart to yours; male vs female. Your dreams are fairly dripping with symbolism, and at the right, "magical" time of year for them, too!
I want to start with the mirror. There are those who think that the life we live here is just a reflection of what is on the other side (as above, so below). Thus, by looking in the mirror, it is thought, one can actually "see clearly." Have you looked into scrying? You must have. Your forum name, I must point out, sounds a lot like "mirror dreamer." Mirrors are a threshold for "spirit" to cross, much like dreams.


The pillar, the man, the cross; all of these are symbols of the male god. The labyrinth, the woman, the garden, on the other hand; these represent the goddess.


The Hermit card, is indeed apt, but what I thought of when I read this, is the Hanged man. His floating quality, seeming to be sleeping, in the position of the cross (hung up on the world-tree) all point to this.
Oh, wow. Thank you for that insight, Blueheart! I'll research the hanged man as well.


I'm amazed how the more I learn about my experiences, the more it turns out they fit with the wisdom that has been passed down through the ages. In a way, that means more to me because I don't feel like I'm pushing symbols into my life experience by force, but rather discovering added depth after already having encountered their reality.


I've done a little gazing at my reflection in dim light, and have seen various faces that seem to represent past lives, but I haven't tried any other forms of scrying yet. There are so many differing opinions on how it works that I find the process a little confusing, really.
 
Mere Dreamer said:
I haven't tried any other forms of scrying yet. There are so many differing opinions on how it works that I find the process a little confusing, really.
That's alright, Mirror Dreamer. You seem to be doing just fine this way.


I've had a little time to think about this a bit, and I keep going back to how you posted the two dreams together. They really are 180 degrees from each other, or dare I say it, mirror images.


Pillar vs Enclosed Garden


Male vs Female


You approaching Him vs Her finding You


Outside vs Inside


Air vs Water


About the elements, the predominant element in your dream is air. In most magical traditions, its "home" is in the East. Other associations for that part of the circle are the springtime, the rising sun, music, the intellect, new beginnings, growth, and of course, all that flies or floats.


There is a god of the horizon, that I know of, Harakhte. He was Egyptian, and became Ra-Harakhte. I only mention him because he is associated with the sun.


Your dream layered symbol upon symbol of god imagery into it, to be certain that you would not miss it. I like what the wise man said about finding your path.


In contrast to this, Mica's predominant dream element is water (tea, stew). Both the cup and the bowl are symbols of the divine feminine. The "home" of water is in the West and its associations are the autumn, the emotions, middle age, all that swims, etc.


The divinity of the labyrinth is a goddess. In contrast to Ra-Harakhte who became the sun, Ariadne started out as a moon goddess and had that removed once Hellenic myth got its hands on her. Anyway, Hecate, Persephone, Hel; any of those would work too. Really interesting images, all around.
 
Blueheart said:
There is a god of the horizon, that I know of, Harakhte. He was Egyptian, and became Ra-Harakhte. I only mention him because he is associated with the sun.
Now the part about the horizon is fascinating. One of my primary guides/guardians is a being that is very "mythical" in nature. I've never been able to clearly identify him or even hear a name that I can keep in mind. (Not Egyptian, to my knowledge, though they all have many names across the cultures.)


I finally resorted to calling him Aether because he can appear as a vast, sky-enclosing, ancient presence. The first time I recognized him, he came to investigate me manifested as a dragon (with human elements) out of the shadows and moonlight in a dark, vast, stone temple. Yet he is very much light, just hidden light? *head-tilt* And will wrap me with very "human" arms when I ask for reassurance.


He sometimes shows up a bit like this ... only not so stone-like, smooth,shiny ... well, not like this at all, really.... definitely not my creation. Much more dragon and less human. But the artwork is pretty, and makes me think of him, all the same.


3e959463ed4076e1a345fedd3c93664d.jpg
Source.


My dream companions were terrified of him (and the entire temple) and afraid for my safety, but I have always felt protected in his presence, and my dreams of him tend to have him grinding his jagged coils around anyone who would threaten me in a "You shall not pass, or else!" sort of way. I almost feel sorry for anyone who threatens me.


Anyway, at one point he drew back and redefined my horizon, in a sense. It was as though he said, "You now have permission to see all the way to the borders of this shelter over you, but everything beyond this point will remain obscure because you aren't ready/don't have the capacity for it all."


Since then, I am never in inner darkness while meditating. Before that, I had to consciously radiate or request light so I could see.


He also tends to be the one I interact with when I'm trying to understand something, and is much more vision-oriented in how he communicates, rather than verbal. I'm pretty sure he's the one who set up the mirror and sent me into it.
 
Blueheart said:
In contrast to this, Mica's predominant dream element is water (tea, stew). Both the cup and the bowl are symbols of the divine feminine. The "home" of water is in the West and its associations are the autumn, the emotions, middle age, all that swims, etc.
The divinity of the labyrinth is a goddess. In contrast to Ra-Harakhte who became the sun, Ariadne started out as a moon goddess and had that removed once Hellenic myth got its hands on her.
Mica consistently identifies herself and her preferences with the moon, water, autumn, swimming, so it isn't surprising that her affinity comes out in this way. She always says she is the night, or at best the moon, and I am light ... even though I find her very bright, myself. *laugh*


Our dreams link up in so many ways, but I think I can't truly enter her dreams (experiencing them as she does) because they are so very dark in content that I can't comprehend them. My version of any theme is always more hopeful, though we share the same connection/reference-points more often than we can explain.


(For example: A sneaky shadow in my dream that I pull out of her chest becomes a sudden shadow that she says I sent into her dream. It destroys her killer by diving through its chest. I dream of knowing she isn't dead and waiting for her to wake up, and she knows she is dead but experiences me pulling her to the place where she comes back to life. Both of us dream of being on a beach and having a fire together.)


She says it's now normal for me to enter her nightmares at the worst point, often when she is near death or dead, and pull her out of the situation. Then she recovers and we go on together somehow. LOL


In my dreams, she is a frequent companion, and I pull anything that would harm her away from or out of her when I see it, often healing her or shielding her. The nightmare aspect doesn't tend to reach or affect me ... and I don't really know her pain within the dream. Even if she appears dead I know she isn't, so I'm not afraid. The entire focus is simply love and protection.


Your thoughts add a fascinating dimension to all this, Blueheart. Thank you for sharing them with me!
 
I'm asking this question for my own education so I can understand more of what you are talking about and if what you and I believe in is much the same.When yourself and others say when you were meditating or doing other things you viewed yourself doing these things I would assume it is not your physical self but some type of spiritual self who is doing these things. Do you see that as your soul or a separate spiritual entity? If you see it as a separate spiritual entity then what I believe in that we are three separate entities in one, the physical, the pure us and our souls becomes very real. The only debate would be who and what is the pure us that has the abilities to do what it does.
 
John Tat said:
When yourself and others say when you were meditating or doing other things you viewed yourself doing these things I would assume it is not your physical self but some type of spiritual self who is doing these things. Do you see that as your soul or a separate spiritual entity? If you see it as a separate spiritual entity then what I believe in that we are three separate entities in one, the physical, the pure us and our souls becomes very real. The only debate would be who and what is the pure us that has the abilities to do what it does.
I believe dreams and visions are a spiritual experience translated into images and feelings that the physical mind can grasp. I don't try to debate "who and what" because the entire experience is something that can't easily be compared.


I don't pretend to comprehend the whole experience, only the elements that can be translated. The rest is still there, and very real, but not communicable on a conscious level. Although, I'm observing that this is a skill that can be developed with practice.


For example, even if we both identify an object we see as being the color red because there are enough common points of comparison in perspective and methodology, there is still no guarantee that our eyes are actually registering red in the exact same way. Your eyes may see a red as more vibrant, and mine may see it as dull, which science indicates is a commonly unknown fact. As a result, neither of us will realize that difference within our agreement. This also means that when I call something orange-red, I may be just as correct as you are when you say it is pure red, because the way our eyes register the spectrum of color is different.


With dreams and visions there are often enough elements in common to say, "I have experienced something similar," and we can agree on a common term or phrasing if we're willing to be a little flexible. The lessons can be shared. We can learn from each other.


This is where archetypes (such as gods, spirits, etc.) are helpful. There is a common spiritual experience that has been interpreted in these ways throughout history. When we layer various mythologies and religions over each other, we can see the same patterns of experience emerge again and again. This gives us a frame of reference (a tool) by which to communicate and learn.


Any read on such things has always been very individual. As DKing has illustrated in his life stories, sometimes the same spiritual encounter is seen by one person as terrifying and another as inspiring or even funny, because of their present state of being.


It's up to us to learn enough about ourselves to know when who we are has filtered what we see to the extent that it no longer looks like itself. Because when we communicate with others, they will not recognize it either. It's very helpful to always keep in mind that "I do not know what I don't know."


Hopefully this was useful.


Have you experienced anything that might be described as an archetype ... or any other being from history that you find useful as a description?
 
Mere Dreamer.. Your description of the different shades or red really did resonate with me. That is very true. You asked if I had any type of archetype experience or any other being from history that I find useful for a description, the following may be relevant. As you may have read in a pervious post of mine that when I was close to death I believed I reached a point where I was only my consciousness. The reasons I believed that are not important to what I have to say but reaching that point is.


I had an experience 9 weeks ago that changed my view on almost everything. Except for my belief we are three separate entities in one, almost all of my other beliefs were somewhat wrong.


My brother sent me a memory stick of old photos of the family taken over the years. I was clicking through the photo's of the year when I was 13 years old. There was plenty of me with the rest of the family. Then I clicked onto one of me with my two younger sisters. The best description I can give was, it felt like I was hit be a sledge hammer Different to all of the other photos of me. I instantly remembered the day, everything I had done, how I really liked the shirt I was wearing, and the tear my mother told me to tuck into my jeans even my grey coloured sneakers I was wearing you could not see in the photo. When I say I remembered what I did on that day , it is like it was yesterday. Not bad for 50 years ago for memories and places long forgotten. For me the most significant aspect to it all was the cold sore I had on my chin. Back on the day when the photo was taken, I said to myself remember the cold sore. How weird is that? I searched and searched my consciousness (which I believe is my pure self) for answers. I always had difficulty in determining the difference between real contact and imagination. Then one night as I lay in bed before I went to sleep trying to contact my pure self I believe it was one of the times I made real contact The message I received was crystal clear


I will continue with another post
 
continuing....


That image of me taken on that day is the image I must use as the image of my pure self. I then fully understood without an image of my pure self contact was very difficult It was in my opinion meant to be. That is what that day and photo 50 years ago was all about. That day was all about a time 50 years in the future when I would be searching for answers. If I told you some of the things I have learnt since you would think I was some kind of nut. One thing I can share is that time has no relevance. For all of what science says and claims about time it has no relevance If time was relevant how could my pure self be within a 15 year old and 65 year old physical body at the same time? Maybe one of the differences between our beliefs is I believe my pure self reincarnates with memory and awareness. My pure self is not bound by time He is not physical so survives physical death of the human form It does not matter to him if his occupying a 15 year old or 65 year old physical forms or reincarnates into a new physical form, they are all the same to him. He is constant and continues on.
 
I don't think your description is different than what I believe, you know.


It took you all those years to realize your pure self and connect. Most people never wake up to that deeper consciousness during their lifetime, they just have these nudges and thoughts that they can't explain. This doesn't mean that element of ourselves isn't always there, and that it that doesn't die and "doesn't care" whether it is in a man in 1468, a child in 1590, or a woman in 2014, because it is all part of experience.


What I'm saying in this thread is that the "pure self" is not alone out there, disconnected from all others. Our spirits are connected and communicating even when the tangible self doesn't know it.


Some of those with whom we communicate in dreams and visions are more than likely purely spirit, and not manifested into the physical world as we are. These are the beings that influence us in dreams and visions, as the archetype characters do in myths, religions, and legends. They have identity, though they are spirit and sometimes difficult to comprehend.
 
Hi everyone,

My name is Adam and I'm excited to connect with a community that shares an interest in their spirituality. Feel free to say hi at any time.

Thanks.
 
What if we incarnate an archetype, ourselves? How much do we influence the archetype and how much does the archetype influence us? Once we tap into the so-called collective unconscious, can we be literally changed by such a reinforced universal imagery -regarding the archetype we represent?
That's an interesting question.

If you ask "What are archetypes (in your opinion, which we all recognize isn't likely to encompass all knowledge)?" Then ...

I think similar characteristics of wisdom are given importance through time, but those similarities are always overlaid by strong cultural differences. The approaches to these ideas/traits are like trails, and it is the crossroads where many overlap that become archetypes. The archetypes flavor our stories because they are important to us, and very familiar because we routinely experience them in life. They came to exist like words, because there is an experience we need to describe and share in community, but when it comes down to it there is always more meaning than can fit in a word ... or an archetype.

Yet even the most broadly inclusive authors/leaders/storytellers have more than likely missed identifying many potential archetype crossroads simply because these shared experiences exist beyond the limited cultural and religious experiences of even the most studious individuals. They are the anchor points of a journey, crossroads on a map, or stages of life and wisdom and the journey cannot be confined to any map we could comprehend.

So, yes, I believe we can embody an archetype, but I think that embodiment is always temporary ... like a section of a path or a change of direction. It's less important to be the archetype than it is to be the journey. To stay in a single archetype would be to stop growing, though we bring them with us when we move on as the experiences and realizations that enrich us. They are nutrients for growth, not the resulting fruit of our existence. They can guide and influence us, but which direction that takes is up to us. I think it's just as possible for an archetype to prevent growth when approached through a filter of false beliefs.

Now, I think that our spiritual guides can take on the veneer of these ideas and mirror back to us either the universal imagery or our own personal understanding of the concepts in order to bring clarity and shine a light on where we are and where we're going. In my experience they have no qualms about using anything handy to help us shift perspective and discover what we need to learn.

From what I understand, even a partially understood truth or a fragment of movement in a positive direction is useful, even if it comes with clutter that inhibits our understanding in the short term. Some of the books and ideas that were used to bring me to where I am now are practically solid lies in retrospect. I'd hesitate to recommend them to anyone, yet without them I wouldn't have come to the realizations that allowed me to recognize greater truth when it showed up ... and I'm still in progress of shedding lies as I find truer-truth. The process is a mark of the journey from one state of being to the next.

So, yes, we're changed by archetypal imagery. It can wake us up, help us focus, and direct us onto wiser paths when used correctly. We're brought to the point where we embody some aspect of truth or shared experience, then drawn forward into the next stage of the journey. Once that element of truth or experience is within us we don't need to seek it externally, because it is always there and we know it when we find it in others, too.

Of course, along the way the archetypes we embody often stop seeming so mysterious and instead turn into the most normal and practical perspectives and experiences of life. Ah, well ... at least we get to remember that aha! moment and how it changed us.

BTW - I've heard of people "losing" their guides and such, and I think this is part of the explanation in some cases. The direction no longer needs to come from some external entity because the coaching worked, and now the individual can guide themselves if only they step forward onto the path. We "become" whatever teaching we follow, which is why it's important to focus on the direction we're growing into and not just on whether we're receiving guidance.

Whether we influence the archetype? Well, I think some life stories (and the fables that grow from them) become persistent enough to do so, but it's like fame ... not something we do for ourselves, but rather it's done by others.

What we can do is influence how we interpret the archetypes for ourselves (warning/direction) so we can choose to walk in a way that aligns with our integrity as we learn from it.

My name is Adam and I'm excited to connect with a community that shares an interest in their spirituality. Feel free to say hi at any time.
Welcome, Adam!
 
I had been influenced by false beliefs -inculcated by religion, society, and so on- which prevented me from opening up to this powerful archetype and see its full potential with clarity. When I did, it changed me deeply, allowing me to see further than I did before, develop a much sharper perception, but it also brought a few negative consequences -or rather, it amplified some physical characteristics which I already possessed.
I've had similar experiences, though at the time I wasn't as aware of why I was experiencing these side effects. I was still stuck in the box of interpretations I'd grown up with, so this "new self" could only be explained with elements I'd permitted to influence me. For several years I walked with a phoenix on my shoulder, because it was an acceptable symbol of rebirth. I interpreted its inaudible voice as imagination assisting my conscience or perhaps the guidance of the Spirit when I wasn't wondering if I'd gone crazy. Sometimes I was convinced its flames would consume my entire world and leave nothing left to renew. I had walked into a lifestyle and social circles that had to be eliminated from my life, and I was (to say the least) unwilling to risk that it would be worse elsewhere.

Eventually, even ending up with nothing would have felt like a relief, though. When I realized that it was basically a choice between physical death (my body was literally shutting down under the stress) and social/religious death I just gave up on the illusion of having anything resembling the dream of a positive life for a while ... and ironically found it on the other side. I walked away from 9/10ths of my life all in one go at the time, cracking the egg in which I'd been huddled and discovering my wings in the "fire" of judgement and transformation. My physical symptoms began to shift (and many of them healed) as I moved through the agonizing process of accepting the inevitable, then choosing it actively as the best option.

Once I was truly free of that environment, my physical condition became one of the primary reflectors of how I was doing emotionally and spiritually. It's part of the reason I'm so keyed in to my intuition, because I not only had those gut feelings, but also surges of sudden health or illness because my entire body was so sensitized to my subconscious. When I listen and respond quickly, then my body doesn't have to chime in as much ... and now it sometimes doesn't even bother to react, because I'm doing what is necessary and it's beginning to trust me. (I just realized that sounds weird, but oh, well.)

The phoenix archetype stuck around as an external entity for a few more years, gradually integrating until it was hard to tell what was Phoenix and what was me, then she was replaced by the next guides, each of them representing some aspect of myself that needed development. I can reference her anytime, but she is definitely "myself" and not the voice on my shoulder anymore. Like I said, I think our guides sometimes take on the roles we need them to play, and at the time I wasn't willing to acknowledge any spiritual guidance other than the "approved" forms. She slipped in past all those fears with a mythological skin that let me approach her teaching as a healthy play.

So when you say you took on some of the negative aspects of the archetype, they may actually be part of the process of teaching you how to recognize the negatives in your situation and respond accordingly. It's possible that once you learn to either shift perspective and find the good or walk away from unhealthy situations that push you away from your own integrity and growth, that the negatives will stop manifesting in your body as well.

I can't guarantee healing because I think there's more to our health than just a reflection of our current archetype/spiritual state. Sometimes poor physical health is a path (a role in life) that we chose for the sake of others' in their journey, too, and it's possible to learn everything we need to learn from it and still be unhealthy physically. Of course, when this is true, it's also true that these people practically radiate their spiritual health in other ways. (They often are called saints because of it. Heh.)

I'm curious if any of this resonates with you.
 
Back
Top