Are We Stardust?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by Karen25, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Karen25

    Karen25 New Member

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  2. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Good article. Thanks for posting.

    I love this quote:
    I think it is beautiful that the wisdom of "ancient" people is so relevant today. And, well, who cannot think of Joni Mitchell's song... “We are stardust, we are golden, and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.”

    ~Tman
     
  3. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hi Karen, welcome to the forum. I accept the thoughts that the human form dates back some twenty to thirty thousand years with human-like forms going back somewhere like two hundred thousand years or more (if my memory is correct). But, this is talking about the "body" or vehicle that is material, and that substance (body material) is composed of matter that exists here on Earth and probably elsewhere and thus could be called stardust. The essence of who I am is something more than that IMHO that involves consciousness, memory, senses, emotions, and thought-creation that would lead to communication and religion (among everything else).

    I would imagine that the questions of birth and death would be something that would happen pretty early in the development of a species capable of that level of consciousness, especially if there were memories like many of us have had - which would lead to shared beliefs and thus a "religion". But, that is just my understanding and thoughts about it.

    Civilization = "the stage of human social development and organization that is considered most advanced" So, using this definition, one would have to decide whether or not "religion" equates to "most advanced" in order to answer your question. I would guess that it was at some point in the past although I'm not sure that it has that meaning at this time in history. I'm not saying that it is not important or necessarily outmoded, just that our experiences lead us in various directions and our priorities and needs change.

    I'm sitting here thinking about the small group of classmates (all octogenarians at this time) who meet occasionally where I'm the only one holding a belief in reincarnation - are my thoughts more "advanced"? Which of us is more "civilized"? I don't see it as particularly relevant (in that group anyway), but that thought might give you something to ponder.
     
  4. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    From Wikipedia:

    Religion may be defined as a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements. However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion.
    ...
    There are an estimated 10,000 distinct religions worldwide,[9] but about 84% of the world's population is affiliated with one of the five largest religions, namely Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or forms of folk religion.

    The anthropomorphic models of the Universe served a historical need, but are as accurate as the Earth centered models, or the flat Earth models, as far as I believe / know. Our beliefs are the biggest obstacle in our progress both in physical, and non-physical (afterlife).
     
  5. steve moody

    steve moody New Member

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    We are indeed literally stardust. All of the elements in the Universe and in our bodies were forged in stars through the process of nuclear fusion. I believe that all religions are nothing more than ancient mythology and superstition. There are no supernatural beings in the sky or under the ground or anywhere else. No gods, goddesses, angels, devils, demons, leprechans or fairies. They don't exist. They're not real. I think this quote from Bertrand Russell is very accurate: "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence. It will fade away as we embrace science and logic as our guideposts".
     
  6. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    "There are no supernatural beings in the sky or under the ground or anywhere else."

    That's all, very well. But what about our own consciousness? Does that exist, or is it too just one more superstitious belief to be dismissed? There is certainly a fashionable modern belief among some scientists (yes, scientists have beliefs too) that consciousness is nothing at all, there are only chemical reactions going on among the molecules of which our bodies are composed.
     
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  7. steve moody

    steve moody New Member

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    Our conciousness isn't supernatural, we aren't supernatural beings, we're natural beings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  8. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Nothing wrong with this way of thinking, except...

    Lately, I am reading about the subconsciousness from the psychological point of view. The subconsiousness as the great potential of the unmanifested.
    We cannot reach the subconsiousness because as soon as something rises up to be grabbed by us, it automatically no longer belonges to the subconsciousness.

    Our consiousness is our Ego. We took several desired elements out of the Ocean of subconsiousness and gave it light and consciousness. It’s our identity, our tools to make our way in Life.

    Somehow, it seems that our psyche is built up by universal stone bricks. These are archetypical patterns.
    The language of the subconscious is symbolism, archetypes. You could fill in words like: stories, dreams, fairies, synchronicity, etc. By definition, you cannot define anything from the subconscious, because by definition the subconscious is The Undefined, The Unmanifested. Sounds a bit like ‘God’, isn’t it?

    Well, this Bertrand Russel is right. Our brains/ego came alive to consiousness into this world, by leaving this mythical/mystical realm in which anything is possible but not done.

    When we fully manifest logic (duality, because something is ‘true’ or ‘not true’) than we logically (lol) will identify our Ego with it. We will look around and observe the World through scientifical and logical glasses. That’s ok, because that’s a great part of the meaning of life: manifesting.

    There are some inconsistencies, however.

    First of all, not all Ego’s will manifest 100% logic. Maybe they are not interested or may be they are not able to do so. Why? Because the system has some flaws.

    That brings us to the second part: the subconscious is never gone, although we try to manifest our logical Ego. The subconscious will always be around us, being all the choices we never made.
    You can call it a flaw or you can call it a balancing act but we cannot fully ‘escape’ our Origine.

    When we cling too much on some aspects of life (which we manifest through our Ego), our personal subconscious will try to balance the energies. This happens through fears, dreams and most of all: Projections.

    People who tend to firmly cling on their Ego, also tend to project to the outer world all the choices they didn’t make.
    Us vs. them
    Or, all the choices they don’t want to see in consious daylight. We all know the examples of politicians who don’t want to face their own corruption, so they relentlessly accuse their oponents of this act. The adulterous husband who accuses his poor wife instead.

    So, back to Bertrand Russel. He’s right but that’s not the complete story and it’s not the end of the story because finally we die and go back to Unity.

    Atheists will usually skip this part of the story, I know :);)

    To clarify: this story is not preaching, just meant to give some good old psychologists a voice and food for thougt.
     
  9. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    What then of "...beings in the sky or under the ground or anywhere else"? Are they not natural too?
     
  10. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    I've no particular agreement nor disagreement with your reply. However in the given context it was orthogonal to the question. The same applies to the response from @steve moody

    The question as you recall was about whether there is anything other than just a chemical soup engaging in reactions as chemicals do.
     
  11. steve moody

    steve moody New Member

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    I think we are all part of the Universe, we are made of the same stuff. Atoms, subatomic particles, quarks and at the quantum level, it's all smoke and mirrors. Just an illusion, particles appearing and dissappearing, existing as only probabilities and potentials. The Universe is one thing, not a bunch of separate parts, in the sense that a human being is one thing, not just a bunch of cells. We ARE the Universe. We just don't realize it. Just my opinion as a monist.;)
     
  12. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    Paraphrasing something I read: how do you explain to a gut bacteria about the world you live in?
     
  13. steve moody

    steve moody New Member

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    No, they don't exist. Imho
     

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