Astral Projection: the basics.

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Eowyn, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. DocMcFly

    DocMcFly Registered

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    Great answer, thanks.


    Reminds me of reading Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception, where he describes taking mescaline, and concluding from his experiences that the brain is not a perceptual tool, but a filtration mechanism; that it doesn't ENABLE us to see, rather it PREVENTS us from seeing.
     
  2. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    I am not a very experienced OBE person. I read Robert Monroe's first book (when it could still be considered "cutting edge" back in the dark ages--probably early 70s) and started doing some experimenting. I did come under attack, not during my conscious daytime attempts, but during a nighttime junket that originated while I was asleep. This led to the end of my experiments--but that is another story--though I may want to explore it later.


    What I really wanted to bring up at this time is the different way of thinking I experienced, and ask some of our folks with more expertise in this area for their feedback. I can only call it "sub-vocal" in that the concepts making up my thoughts/perceptions progressed without being converted into words in the normal manner I experience in my physical waking consciousness. Since I am a very "word" oriented person, I noticed this afterwards and it still is something that seems distinctive about the experience to me.


    I call it "sub-vocal" because I experience thoughts in that fashion. I.e., I perceive a concept and it becomes a concrete thought when it is converted--seemingly effortlessly and magically--into a word in my mind. The process is very fast, just like any well-trained and instinctive action, so what I normally notice is just the sequence of words in my thinking. It is when there is a stumble in the process that I am most likely to notice the sub-vocal part of the sequence. This is when a concept comes to mind, but is not immediately clothed in a suitable word. This exposes the sequence and leads to a secondary process where I come up with some more roundabout way of expressing the concept.


    Anyhow, during my brief OBE's my way of thinking and communicating (as I recall it) seemed to be sub-vocal in the way I have just explained. There was a flow of "thoughts" in the form of ideas, concepts and perceptions, as in my normal thinking process, but without the normal almost simultaneous conversion of these thoughts into words. It made me think that "words," at least in the lower "astral" as I experienced it, were not part of thinking, but an artifact and attribute of the physical brain I had left lying on my bed (and probably more specifically of the left hemisphere of that brain). This would make sense to me as "words" are symbols for meaning that are necessary for communication (and perhaps coherent thought) in the physical, but may be unnecessary for these purposes in a higher realm where thought might be experienced as a flow of meaning (concepts) without the necessity of clothing these concepts/meanings in words.


    I'm not ready to generalize what I experienced beyond the very rudimentary OBE level I experienced. I just don't have the personal data. Plus, I rather like words (as long as they are optional and not required). Also, Newton's subjects reported music, singing and choirs at the level of the soul's natural home. This is hard to imagine without something like words, but that may just be the prejudice and limitations of my physical mind speaking.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
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  3. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    That's coherent with the statements I've heard of other astral travellers and my own perceptions, SeaAndSky. Though sometimes we call that type of communication telepathy just to be understood, I've always heard that it's not totally correct, as it's not a real "transmission of thoughts", but something more complex or different to the language we know.


    As an aside note, I also think words are very limiting to our communicating potential, let's not forget they're a product of our human nature. We need them to articulate our language and to make sounds so that others can hear what we think in the physical world, but who needs them when there are no physical boundaries anymore and other senses become more powerful?
     
  4. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    SeaAndSky


    The following is my opinion. I'm only trying to help. It would be great If Eowyh would come in and give opinions and comments on what I will say because I'm only trying to help


    As I have said to you before I believe you rely to much on your research and study in trying to find your way with all of this. You have to find your own understandings and those are not in any books or research you do They are a guide to get you on the right track nothing more.


    It is my opinion travel is a very personnel thing To travel you must have a strong connection to the pure you/spiritual you. You must meditate constantly with him If you do not establish a strong connection then not only is travel unlikely but also having your own understanding of all of this difficult


    When you talked about the probable travel you had you were analytical about the experience which indicates to me you did not really understand what had happened


    Stop relying on books and experts and connect to the pure/spiritual you. "you have to find your own way"


    Eowyn I hope you give your opinions on this. If I'm wrong then SeaAnd Sky needs to know. He really does want to learn


    Regards
     
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  5. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I appreciate your interest and concern, though I'm not really interested in doing more Astral travel at the moment (for reasons explained below). I just want to understand more about it in general and have a better understanding of what I experienced in the past. Also, I think that the discussion about how thought and communication out of the body is different would be something of interest to you, as it reflects on something you are often talking about--i.e., the difficulty in translating what you receive in that state and/or from your non-physical sources into words here in the physical. In terms of spiritual practices, I do practice meditation as schedule and other duties allow, but not as much as I would like.


    Eowyn,


    Thanks for your response. I reported an astral travel event from my past in another thread recently which I would like to elaborate in a bit more detail for your feedback. It happened back in the early 70s and I was around 20 at the time. This forum, btw, is the first time/place I have ever discussed these matters with anyone.


    Prior to my final experience, I had not gotten very far with the ones I initiated consciously. The experiences were brief and I never left my bedroom--though I can recall some of the "voice" and vibratory phenomena that others report. There was also one weird occasion where I seemed to immediately encounter something like a "net" and couldn't proceed any further, returning to my body. However, my last experience was striking and very scary. I remember it pretty clearly after all of these years. I had apparently left my body while asleep--which seemingly is not uncommon. In the normal course of things I doubt I would recall anything, but I was attacked by something before I got very far from my bedroom--which scared the %^&* out of me, and made me plunge back into my body and wake up, sitting up suddenly in bed, and preserving the memory. Since then I have made no further attempt at such a thing.


    Here are a few more details I did not report before. As previously mentioned, I do not remember leaving my body, all I remember is proceeding through my bedroom door towards the stairway leading downstairs. My younger teen sister's bedroom was passed on the way and I remember an interchange with her, even though she was certainly asleep at the time. This was not in words, but in concepts/feelings as discussed before. She sent a "comment" that was a good-humored tease about me doing what I was doing, and I responded with a friendly, good-humored acknowledgement. (Once again, none of this was in words, but an exchange of concepts/feelings bundled together). What I was doing was in some sense "sexual" and I can recall the feeling and slight exhilaration of being on the "prowl" in that regard with the idea that I would soon meet up with a "lover"--though I must confess that I was definitely no Don Juan at the time and this type of thing was certainly no part of my waking existence. I reached the head of the stairs and looked down, where there was a dark figure.


    After this, everything happened in a rush as reported above. Somehow the "impact/attack" of the figure and my return to body/sitting up in bed seemed to happen so fast that "speed of thought" comes to mind as a descriptive in regard to both. My impressions of the attacker were a bit confused, and may even have been gathered in the aftermath as a set of mental impressions after I sat up: dead staring eyes--and a desire to stick a knife in through my eye to poison my brain/mind. All weird, of course, and maybe just the projected impressions of some type of entity that just likes to spook and scare unwary and amateurish "travelers" like I was at the time. Still, I notice that many of the people who have avoided this type of thing speak of having guides and/or protective presences with them--which I certainly don't recall having. So, maybe that was also a factor.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
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  6. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    Hi, John. I agree and I disagree with you. Astral travel is a very personal thing, yes. It is a very subjective experience and though sometimes it can be validated, this is rare due to the nature of the experience. It's hard to interpret because we are not aware of how our mind works. Let's not forget astral travel is closely related to dreams, this means that while we are astral projecting, if we are not in total control, our subconscious can manifest in very different ways, just like it does in our dreams. Our fears and desires can literally take shape in the astral, that's the reason why only the people having the experience can discern what is "real" and what is not. We also must keep in mind that the definition of "real" is not easy in AP. A black monster can indeed look very real and frighten you, this is what has originated all the myths surrounding AP, such as the existence of "demons", "Incubii" and other kind of creatures. Only if you are conscious enough and in control of your emotions, you can wonder and find out if they are real creatures or just a reflection of your own mind.


    I agree it is better to go your own path and don't rely too much on books. You don't need to. What you read can lead you to create your own reality in the astral and be deceived again. And besides, no one really knows the nature of it, so you must be brave and do it on your own. It is also true it is important to lead a life with some kind of "spiritual practice", but not because this is necessary to astral project, but because this will help you to be in control of your emotions, and of course it will also be better when you are trying to relax to consciously astral project.


    All of us astral project when we're asleep, and from what I've seen, being more or less aware of it doesn't depend on how spiritual you are, but on other factors, some of them quite natural, even "physiological".
     
  7. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    Hi, SeaAndSky. Your experiences are quite similar to the ones other astral travellers report. Voices and vibrations are very common. Vibrations occur when you're about to separate from your physical body. Voices, you can hear them all the time, sometimes they remain in the background, other times you can talk to them. The net you encountered is a curious thing, possibly just an obstacle created by your own mind, as sometimes there is a part of us who is scared or thinks you shouldn't be doing that, or maybe you just think you can't walk in the astral. I take it as the cases where you are trying to go through a wall and you can't. It's not because you really can't, but because you think you can't. In the astral the limits are in our own mind really.


    Now, in regards to the scary experience: it's also quite common you don't remember the exact moment you leave your body, as it's very, very hard, to be completely aware of the separation. So, if you're trying to AP consciously, it's frequent you lose consciousness just before you're out, and the next second you awake already in the astral. Other people who have spontaneous experiences also use to wake up in the astral, and they usually believe it was all a dream. Brief experiences, especially at the beginning, are also the norm. As you describe, you may be in your bedroom, you may explore a bit around the house or go out, and soon after that you lose consciousness or you are aware how you get back to your body. All this is because a lot of training and mind control are required to get further, do what you really want to do, and be totally awake all the while.


    I can't know if the figure that attacked you was real or not. Like I said in my previous post, it might be a "reflection" of your subconscious fears, or it might be a real creature (there are souls in the astral and "other things", and they can be good or bad, just like in real life). Whatever it was, there is no need to worry, as they can't harm you. Just asking yourself whether they're real or not, it's likely they will fade away, if they are a creation of your mind. And if they are real, you can use your imagination to attack them and let them know you're not afraid. Just thinking about something positive or someone you love, you will fill yourself with enough good energy to make them retreat.


    Guides and protective "entities", well, I would trust no one in the astral, as anyone can call themselves "guide" and maybe they would only be telling you lies. I've never encountered any, though sometimes I've asked for help and someone has turned up to help me. So... you never know. But I'd just recommend: trust yourself.


    I understand this experience was scary for you, but it also seems you have a good ability to AP, and I see no reason why you shouldn't try again, if that's what you'd like.
     
  8. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Eowyn,


    Thanks for your response! I have wondered some of the same things about the "scary" I encountered and whether it was objectively real or my own creation. If you are right about the "net" it could be that I was seeking to block myself with increasingly draconian measures and conjured my own Boogie Man to scare myself away from further AP (though it certainly seemed like "not me"). Since I seem to be doing the same thing with PL memories, it could be a general sense of unreadiness for the consequences or something similar. I've also wondered whether I could have overcome my attacker in some way. I've heard that some entities like to taunt and intimidate, feeding off of the fear induced. And, perhaps if it had acted in that way, allowing me to get my thoughts together, the result might have been different. But overall, I don't think this one operated that way. The attack was amazingly sudden and my response completely instinctual--which is part of the reason why I believe your comment about our ability to avoid harm during AP. The ability and speed with which one can return to the body and avoid danger seems to be a cure-all for most unpleasant situations.


    The sexual aspect of the experience was interesting for a variety of reasons. I had read about this type of thing in Monroe, but I can guarantee that Monroe was not on my mind at all at the time. I felt like I was doing something I had done many times before, though it was completely at odds with my rather shy (and still) mostly adolescent "waking" self at the time. Also, we have had a long debate on this board over whether the "soul" that reincarnates has an innate gender. I don't think that my experience proves anything on that one way or the other, but I definitely think that we continue to possess gender related desires in (at least) the lower Astral.


    I also thought the communication with my sister was intriguing. It seems like we may be even more "awake" in some respects when we are sound asleep in the physical.


    I am generally pretty ambivalent about whether to try it again. It has been around 40 years, so perhaps another try is in order. However, I don't really have a lot of incentive in my own mind for doing so. The bits of catch-up reading I have been doing of late tend to indicate that the Astral is mostly a miasmic mix of Belief Zones and total confusion--which is almost to be expected when perceived reality is so subject to being molded by the beliefs/desires of individuals or groups. Frankly, I feel like I'm mostly interested in staying very close to the physical and enjoying the sights or, alternatively, bypassing the messy in-between and getting to something higher and better than the Astral. I doubt my ability to do the latter at my current stage of growth. In terms of the staying close to the physical, most of the things I have read seem to indicate that is not as "easy" as it might seem either. So, for the time being . . . .


    I also agree with your comments re guides and etc. I have a general aversion to "channeled" information about "higher" things and prefer either (1) first hand accounts (like yours); (2) scientific studies (which are usually based on first hand accounts); or (2) religious sources. Likewise, a stranger is still a stranger whether in the physical or the astral. Nonetheless, in a pinch--such as being attacked (physical or astral)--I'm likely to accept help from anyone who can deliver.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Eowyn,


    This is a bit of a continuation, but also maybe a search for inspiration. What I mostly hear about in terms of the Astral is tangled up perceptions, tangled up places, tangled up beings, and a tangled up sense of what is real and what isn't. What I really want to hear about is something beautiful and "fixed"--or at least as "fixed" as a place can be in that realm. I'd like to know that there is a wonderful and beautiful "garden" spot in the middle of what I increasingly hear is almost completely chaotic.


    I think I may want to do this, but what I really want is a goal: a reason to do it more than just dong it, a place to go that fills me with wonder and that I will want to return to again and again.


    Can you tell me about a place or some places like this? Something you think is wonderful. I'd like to envision them and seek them. It would give me a reason to take another chance at this, and I'd really like that.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  10. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This is interesting, S&S, because it brought to mind a rare nightmare I had during the process of letting go of an abusive relationship. I had already left him some time before, but he still exerted residual control over my thoughts and actions.


    I woke in the dream, and many of the astral indicators were present, though I didn't have the knowledge to recognize them at the time. The room and the house were clearly my current home, though the layout didn't match the tangible world. Beds, rooms, doors, and stairs had shifted in that fluid way they have on the other side. The pieces were all defining their own order in a "more real than reality" way that was familiar, like home is meant to feel when we pay attention.


    My ex was seated next to my bed, observing me. I knew it was him because I know the pressure of his internal presence, even without the physical cues. I first knew that I was asleep and aware of him, then I woke within the dream to find he was surrounded in darkness that didn't allow visual confirmation (even though he was tangibly and purposefully intruding on me). The rest of the room announced its layout in shades of blue and grey. He was darkness.


    I rose from the bed, unable to speak, and decided he would leave if I went to my parents' room. They live upstairs from my apartment, so I walked up the stairs, past the entrance, and into my parents' kitchen, where I suddenly felt him holding to my arm with an insubstantial, but very real grip. I had no voice. I couldn't move. And he could do no more than hold me in place. I knew if I could gather the strength to either shove him out the door or call my dad he wouldn't be able to resist or re-enter the house.


    He didn't feel that powerful, just resentful and intrusive, making use of that edge of fear he had created by hovering over me in my sleep. I felt he was not capable of actually harming me.


    I suddenly awoke again, this time in my physical body, and turned on the light to confirm that he had not entered the house and come to stand over my bed. I wrote down what had happened as is my habit when I wake up enough to write.


    After that (and a previous similar, but much more invasive and terrifying, dream) I intensified my efforts to find a way to eliminate my attachment to him. At some point I discovered our past life connection, let go of the expectation for change I had been clinging to, and ever since his only presence in my dreams has been as a background character in the usual life-sorting dramas that I can easily interpret.


    My point is that I knew very clearly, even in the middle of dream walking, that he had no power over me except my own reaction of fear. If I had not feared him, he could not have touched me or even remained in my environment without losing all power to harm. If I had not been afraid, he would have been meaningless or ineffective before me, or he would not have been there at all.


    I knew enough to look for some assistance to build my courage, and thankfully realized I could wake up as an alternative to escape.
     
  11. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Mere,


    It's good to hear from you again. I haven't got much experience in fully conscious AP, but I think I may be out and about when I'm asleep sometimes, though I don't remember anything clearly. However, there is something that tells me that we know many things instinctively in that state, like that impulse that sends us instantaneously back into our bodies if we're frightened. (This shouldn't be a surprise when you consider that it is not only this life when we have done this, but many other PLs as well).


    I think I also have some vague memories of that in-between dream and waking cognition state happening when I was OB. However, to really answer your question, you'll probably need to wait for one of the pros. But from my POV, this definitely sounds like an experience mixing a dream sequence together with an AP.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  12. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    In contrast, my best friend and I are noticing that we are more and more frequently sharing dreams.


    At first it was merely highlighted elements backed by a similar theme, as if someone had handed us both an outline of events and props for a movie and she had interpreted it on a zombie theme, and I had interpreted it as sci-fi mind control, with each of us playing out the role of the main character without encountering each other.


    Recently, we shared an entire scene (fighting something coming up a mountain in a fog), characters (the two of us and our defending dragon), and action (she directs the dragon as it flies off into the fog). After which she went on to dream and remember an entire episode, while I did not.


    I'm not entirely sure if this is through the astral or some other means of connection. The memory itself is very dreamlike. Maybe you could add your perspective, Eowyn?


    I rarely actively lucid dream, even though I often do "watch myself" dreaming instead of experiencing it directly. What was unusual is that we dreamed together on the same night.


    S&S, wherever you go in the astral, I assume you bring yourself with you. For me, that is my anchor of safety and the "garden to explore" so to speak. In a way my primary "guide" is the part of myself that isn't entirely submerged in physicality and the experience of living, but aware of and connected to the complete consciousness. It seems probable that the more stable, aware, and integrated you are as a person, the less danger you will find on the other side.
     
  13. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I saw this after my second post, and I wanted to respond on this point. I think that it wasn't actually my ex in the dream (in spirit) but rather my fear of him made visible, if that makes sense. So, yes. I knew him instinctively, but it may have been because I was generating him, too.


    As Eowyn mentioned, the astral will reflect your dreams and thoughts back at you. I think that's what was going on in this case. It was not a normal dream, even from the beginning.


    Now, I'd adjust in a moment if I ever learned he had dreamed of coming and watching me in my sleep, but I'll never know and it's not worth worrying over.


    I think it's very good to know that we have an instinctive escape mechanism open to us when we get out of our depth. Good point on the lifetimes of experience we must have accumulated.
     
  14. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    I don't know if I'd call it instinct, but certainly it's an automatic response of our "astral body" (or whatever you want to call it). Fear is one of the triggers that make you return instantly, that's the reason it's completely false you can get "lost" in the astral. The connection with your physical body is always there, unless you're dead. With or without fear, you only have to think of it and you're back.

    Of course, in the astral we're still "us", we are not our "pure selves" (as John would say), we're still attached to our current personality and our current body. Our lower instincts like the sexual ones are also with us, that's why they say you have to get rid of all those desires before exploring the astral. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I guess it's just how things work in the astral. All you are, you take it with you to the astral, and that includes subconscious issues you might not be aware of.


    For me, the astral body is not exactly the soul. My opinion is that the soul has no gender, though it may be influenced by previous experiences as one sex or the other. The astral body is different though, it's just another part of our human nature and it dies when we die. You can give any appearance you like to your astral body (when you have a bit of experience), but obviously you will choose one similar to your physical body, if you want to be recognized.

    This type of encounters are not uncommon either, especially in children. Did she remember something when she woke up? Recently someone who is beginning to AP told me he had a very similar experience: he got out of his body, went to her daughter's bedroom to check she was right, and then went out to the street. At the following morning she told him she had dreamed of a very tall man dressed in red, "half-good half-bad" who had gone to her bed and scolded her for something. It's very likely she was in the astral too (as we all do when we sleep), she saw him, but her brain interpreted it in a different way and of course she thought it had been just a dream.
     
  15. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    I wouldn't say your current "stage of growth", but just your current stage of "training". Like I said it's not a matter of how "spiritual" you are, or a matter of having psychic powers. We all can do it. We all do it, only we don't remember. You don't have to learn how to AP, you have to learn to be conscious of it. And yes, it takes a lot of training and effort, and you're right it can be very confusing until you learn how to control it. Most people just forget about it because if you really want to be aware of the astral you have to sacrifice certain things in your real life, otherwise you're too tired to even try.

    I think I don't have enough experience to advise you on this, as my own attempts to go somewhere of my choice have been fruitless so far (excepting one night I thought of the Moon and I ended up somewhere that resembled it, though I'm not sure where I really was cover face). However, one thing in the astral is that the possibilities are endless. Where would you want to go? Is there a place on Earth (or out of Earth) you'd like to visit? Then concentrate on it every time you try AP. They say it's better to visualize a real place in your mind before going to sleep, and then your mind will remember when you wake up in the astral and you'll go there. You can also create your own place once in the astral, but for doing that you have to be much in control, and I'm afraid we both are too far from that point.
     
  16. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    Mere Dreamer: this sounds like "semi-lucid" AP, and your friend seems to be a bit more lucid than you. Many people call this lucid dreaming and they get surprised when some people refer to shared dreams. They don't identify this with astral projection because they have a wrong view of what astral projection really is. When you share a dream with someone is because you two were together in the astral (of course, I'm not saying every time you dream of someone it's because you really met them in the astral, there have to be validations from both parts and common elements in the dream). As these experiences are subjective and your brains filter and interpret the information in a different way when you wake up, there can be different versions of the same dream, and one may remember more or less than the other, as it's your case. It would be great if you try to be more lucid of these encounters, using the techniques to consciously astral project. Then you'd probably be more in control, as your friend apparently does.


    Usually, until this happens, we experience only brief moments of awareness inside a "dream". That is, maybe you "wake up" in the astral and are very lucid, but seconds later you lose consciousness and you go back to normal dreaming, everything fades away again.
     
  17. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    It is my opinion you must have a strong connection to your pure self to benefit from the Astral. Because of this connection I believe I understand the Astral is not an amusement park where you go to amuse yourself. Lucid dreams is the amusement park. The Astral is a very serious place to visit


    My pure self wants to be educated. We go to the Astral to be educated which in the Astral is very different to wanting to learn


    Don't mess with the Astral allow it to be what it is
     
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  18. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Mere,


    Your experience reminds me a bit of the "Anubis" thread. I guess this is because what is happening on both threads involves dreams and visions, though yours is shared and Muse3Owls was not. Generally speaking, the distinction between dreams and visions tends to be that one is a sleeping phenomenon and the other is a waking phenomenon. On the physical, dreams are one thing and visions are another. And, while dreams are very common, people who have visions are very rare. They are considered very far from the norm and have to be careful they don't end up being committed to a mental institution. That does not mean that what they experience is not important or meaningful, just that one always needs to be careful who they talk to about such things--bad things can happen a115.gif.


    OTOH, from the little bit I have been told and/or experienced, both appear to be equally common and/or to mix together freely in the Astral. If fully awake in the Astral, we may have "visions" of our own creation or created and projected into our awareness by others. Unlike the physical, there is no clear division between the two, and state of consciousness can slide between waking and sleeping/dreaming and visions (and everything in between) in a way, by all reports, that makes it sometimes very difficult to know which is happening at any particular point in time (except perhaps by hindsight).


    This is all a long way around to saying that I believe what you have reported is very possible and agree with Eowyn's interpretation. (The latter is not particularly difficult since I believe she knows a lot more about this type of thing than I do :thumbsup:).


    Cordially,


    S&S


    PS--I'm having fun with smilies today! It must be the weather--I'm very glad to see Spring arrive.
     
  19. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    S&S, I don't think visions are as abnormal as you imply. The experiences I shared in the Anubis thread were waking "visions" so to speak. I frequently have them, only I usually refer to them as "dreams" for the sake of getting past the blank stare associated with "vision". OMG Here I usually use the term "meditation" since they don't jump at me out of the blue, but wait for me to become silent and aware. :cool:


    I assume others face the same dilemma with communicating their experiences. It's safer to call it a dream, so a dream it must be (at least in company). locked1


    I can usually tell the difference between a "vision dream" and a dream that is sorting impressions of this or past lives. Generally the characters that show up are much more powerful, real (?) or ... hmm ... grounded. (I'm pretty sure usually I remember most of the details in them, too.) There isn't much difference in meditation/waking visions, only when I'm awake I tend to ask more questions.


    I've always enjoyed smilies. Usually I restrain myself, but I took the chance to play in response. a115.gif
     
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Mere,


    I would never denigrate "visions" per se. As you know from some of our original interchanges, I am definitely a Bible person, and the Bible is full of visions. In fact, the "language" of dream and vision (in the form of imagery and symbol) is found throughout the Bible (where much of it takes the form of and is typically referred to as "apocalyptic" language). Unfortunately, it causes a lot of confusion to the unwary and (quite frankly) the under-informed. So, I'm big on visions, though with the caveat that visions--like beings--can be good or bad (in terms of both accuracy and intended result). They have to be judged by their source and, when that can't be determined, their fruits. My only other caveat is that you have to be careful who you talk to about these things, but I think you already knew that.


    BTW--except for the "voice" in my heart I recently referred to on another thread (which I would consider to be in the same, or close to the same category as a vision), I can only recall one other experience which I would think of being a waking state manifestation of this type--though it might be considered to be a paranormal sighting instead. It was when I was around 9-10, and was more than a little frightening to me. I prefer dreams, and have received a good deal of information and guidance from them, though I have to admit that I am only recently becoming willing to change my course because of them (after trying to make things "come out right" when my dreams seemed to be showing me quite different outcomes). It has taken me a long time to arrive at the wisdom of the ancients and become willing to accept and act on warnings from my dreams.


    Cordially,


    S&S


    PS--I think there is something to be learned from in all of our dreams, but the ones I am referring to above come to me with special "impact"--I refer to them as wake-me-up dreams, because that is generally what they do.
     

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