Carnivore diet

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by Ritter, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Hi folks. I started with something called "the carnivore diet" today. Since this is the non-serious or free part of the forum, I thought I would post it here. Been eating ketogenic diets before, and they have worked when I kept it very simple. I am now basically going to eat mostly red meat, but also eggs, fish, poultry, butter and cheese, plus salt and water. I.e. extremely simple food. This is it, basically:



    Been lifting weights for 4 years without pause, so my muscle mass is pretty good at a pessimistic estimation of 85 kg Lean Mass. Hence my weight is also on the high side, but at 111 kg (244 lbs) total weight, it is not 'all muscle', even if I look strong rather than fat. If I get down to 95 kg total, it would approach a bodybuilder's offseason look. This is an attempt both to improve digestive health as well as getting rid of the bit of a powerlifter belly i have gotten from "bulking" for a long time and mostly eating whatever I wanted. I.e. getting unbloated and de facto leaner. I am also attempting it to get a hold on a couple of minor inflammations that bother me little a bit. I suspect I might lose muscle volume due to glucose being gone from the system (muscles utilize glucose for energy, normally, but not while the body is in ketosis, i.e. running on fat/ketones), so an ideal weight later on down the line may well fall closer to 85 or even 80. Anyway, I also do it because I love food and cooking too much. Reducing food to the very basics will have to improve character or fail, which is not an option.

    Are there any of you who are trying this also? Or thinking about it?
    It is getting to be a bit of a fad, apparently. Me and my best friend are going to try this together, in order to stay motivated. First a one month trial until New Year's Eve, then evaluate and decide course for the coming year. Only meat, fish and cheese for Yule, which most call Christmas.
     
  2. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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    Its kinder like the atkins diet then meat / eggs and dairy if i remember rightly
     
  3. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    In many ways, yes. But Atkins has stages and is only very restrictive at first, if I remember it right. Or if it was at the last stage, perhaps. This is very restricted all the time. Literally 'eat meat and drink water'. No plant food whatsoever, only animal meat, eggs and cheese. Very interesting. I am going to have a bad week during acklimatization, but I expect it to work just fine. I will get vitamin C from chicken and beef liver, and intake is more efficient when it does not compete with carbs for uptake. Human beings apparently do well on just meat. I am a little skeptic, still, but hence the trial run. If at any point, there would be health issues, I will abort mission and ease off into a more conventional Low Carb diet which includes vegetables.
     
  4. SeekerOfKnowledge

    SeekerOfKnowledge Learner

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    As I am a vegetarian, this diet is not for me. Could be something for my husband, though. I will have to have a closer look to see what kinds of foods are "allowed" and what you should avoid. Would be great if we could find a way how my husband can loose some pounds while still eating stuff he loves to eat (like meat, dairy products...).
    Thanks a lot for sharing!
     
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  5. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Well, then this is pretty much good. I am also a bonafide meat lover. I have eaten vegetarian and pescetarian for long periofs of time, and been a vegan for three months to evaluate. Pescetarian works, I guess. But not for weight loss purposes or healing the digestive tract, much. Veganism was hell for me. I became increasingly docile and weak-willed. Being a fairly forceful person normally, it was really strange to almost become as if I was slightly high on cannabis sativa all the time. It annoyed the crap out of my wife, who told me to stop it and eat normally again. I lost muscle mass and was bloated like a blowfish from all the beans and lentils, despite soaking. Not every day, but most. Did the whole raw food thing, at the end there.

    Meat has the opposite effect, it seems. It is not my first time doing a dietary experiment and I like to keep a close check on how things work. When I did a very restrictive ketogenic diet that almost approaches this, I noticed what I consider to be positive behavioral changes, apart from no bloating whatsoever, generally even sense of well-being, reduced hunger and a big initial weight loss (the weight loss evened out at my ideal weight when I reached it after three months out of the six I did in total). The behavioral change was that I worried less, was less nervous, more self-assured, direct and in charge. Clear-headed. Not subject to any mood swings whatsoever. Externally, it seldom shows, but I worry about things constantly otherwise and devise/implement plans to keep things good. I have a hard time letting go and going to sleep when I should. That is something I look forward to. Being able to just let go of things, going early to bed and sleeping in a couple of minutes. It translates to rising earlier and getting more done.

    If only burgers, pancakes, pizzas, wienerschnitzel, pastas and deep fried stuff were not my favorite foods... :confused:

    Tell your husband to look into it. Either carnivore diet or a very restrictive ketogenic diet. It's basically alike, but differs in use of plant oils, low carb fruits and vegetables like cabbage and avocados etc. The keto uses it, the carnivore diet does not. It works fine, though, until one starts baking weird things with almond flower and other "Liberal LCHF" foods (not liberal in the political sense).

    If you are american, especially, stay away from GMO grain-fed industrial meat. It does not have the nutrients to do this properly or safely. If I lived there, I would exclusively hunt or raise my own meat animals, or buy organic only, or buy meat from someone who hunts. Or perhaps go vegan. The FDA really hates public health for some (lobbyist) reason. I am lucky that meat over here generally speaking nearly holds organic quality, or thereabout, even when it is not organic-certified. I mostly buy organic anyway, but have no need to worry when I do not. You do. All that grain fodder screws up the omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acid balance in favor of omega-6. The fatty acid imbalance causes inflammations and chronic diseases. Cattle should eat grass, not corn, soy and antibiotics. Just saying it because I don't want to recommend something that might make your husband sick and not warn about this local hazard. Modern food industrial complex meat really can make people sick.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  6. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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  7. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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  8. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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    My neighbours swear by it they buy it all the time
     
  9. SeekerOfKnowledge

    SeekerOfKnowledge Learner

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    I tried veganism myself. Was not Hell at all, but I seemed to catch a cold more often during that phase, despite taking care of taking in enough vitamins. I had zero problems with digestion during that time, though. And a grew a few pounds. Gave it up because it was too much thinking for my taste. How will I make sure to get enough of this and that vitamin? And so on...

    "If only burgers, pancakes, pizzas, wienerschnitzel, pastas and deep fried stuff were not my favorite foods"
    My husband definitely can relate to that. And I love pizza myself.

    Avocados I ate a lot during my vegan phase... "not liberal in the political sense", LOL...thumbs up for that. Made me laugh so hard.

    We are living in Germany. The best "diet" for myself probably it not caring at all. Threw away my scale some years ago. As long as my clothes still fit, there is no need to worry. I was close to anorexia several times in my life, so... yeah. I am not too skinny either. And when I crave for chocolate, I eat chocolate. Or potato chips. A whole package if I must... and afterwards, I probably suffer for my "sin" with a stomach ache, lol...
    As for my husband, overweight, high blood pressure, diabetes and such is in his genes. It would benefit his health to get under 100 kilograms... I am not much of a cook, and I somehow find it hard to deny him anything he loves... similar to how I treat my cat. Just that the cat still is slender. Anyway, I am a bit worried. My mother-in-law died during a standard surgery, because overweight, diabetes and high blood pressure had made her veins porose. I'd like to have my husband around for a little longer...
     
  10. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ritter,

    Interesting. I had my best weight loss doing something a bit Adkinesque some time back. It is called the Blood Type Diet by Peter D'Adamo. The author backs up his premise that diet should be tuned to blood type by throwing in some evolutionary type arguments/history related to the supposed origin of different blood types (garnering a pseudo-science label from some), but aside from this caveat, I had no problem with it and had good results. Here is a quick summary:

    Type O blood: A high-protein diet heavy on lean meat, poultry, fish, and vegetables, and light on grains, beans, and dairy. D'Adamo also recommends various supplements to help with tummy troubles and other issues he says people with type O tend to have.

    Type A blood: A meat-free diet based on fruits and vegetables, beans and legumes, and whole grains -- ideally, organic and fresh, because D'Adamo says people with type A blood have a sensitive immune system.

    Type B blood: Avoid corn, wheat, buckwheat, lentils, tomatoes, peanuts, and sesame seeds. Chicken is also problematic, D'Adamo says. He encourages eating green vegetables, eggs, certain meats, and low-fat dairy.

    Type AB blood: Foods to focus on include tofu, seafood, dairy, and green vegetables. He says people with type AB blood tend to have low stomachacid. Avoid caffeine, alcohol, and smoked or cured meats.

    My wife is AB and I am O, she loved the Macrobiotic diet that was in vogue many years ago (I hated it). She can go vegetarian or light on meat if need by, I have got to have animal protein. Anyhow, type O is supposedly the oldest blood type (if I am remembering correctly) and does best on hunter/gatherer foods. So, heavy on meat/fish/eggs, etc. plus veggies and fruits. Light on items that were the result of the development of agriculture and the domestication of cows, etc. such as beans, grains and dairy. So, plenty of animal protein, veggies and fruits and avoid the rest. Hmmm. Maybe I need to do this again. I need to lose about 30 lbs.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--My initial reservation about the Carnivore diet is that you better be prepared for constipation unless you can slip in some roughage somehow.

    PPS--Just for curiosity sake, I'd be interested to hear from people who have different blood types in terms of their success (or lack thereof) in terms of vegetarianism, etc.
     
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  11. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    Many years ago I've tried Atkins. Easy to do, effective for a while, then I started to put the weight back, and more.

    Then I discovered that weight is regulated by the balance calories intake less calories spent by the body. On a calorie restricted balanced diet (~1,400 calories /day), I lost in about a year 135 lb, reaching a normal weight. I've maintained my healthy weight over last 15 years, on a 2,000 - 2,400 calorie balanced diet. As exercise I do a daily program of ~25 min (warm-up, 10-15 min dumbbell / body weight exercises, stretches), walking 3-7 days a week, daily a 5 minute high intensity routine.

    Excess protein diets seem to be carcinogenic.

    I recommend this ketogenic diet introduction (I don't do, and never did a ketogenic diet).
     
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  12. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    I am O+, and I have tried the blood type diet extensively. It is still in the back of my mind when I shop for food, to be honest. What I am doing now takes it into regard.

    As for constipation, it gets to be an issue if I would eat too little fat and too much lean meat. If I eat fatty or non-stringy meats like bacon, liver, fatty pieces of chicken, spare ribs and entrecôte (no idea what the equivalent cut is in American nomenclature)... Not a problem. And then the stomach adapts to produce more acid in pretty short order. My main problem with the first week leading to ketosis adaption is irritability and cravings. My body wants to run on fat, so it sometimes only takes three-four days or so to get over the brain fog, irritability, cravings etc. A strange trick to get over it is to eat MORE fatty meat, butter etc. Crave something sugary? More meat of some appropriate kind. Serves both to get the nutrients wanted - cravings stop when enough nutrients are consumed and absorbed by the body - and as a slight psychological punishment. Kind of like forcing yourself to do pushups every time you even think about some bad habit you are trying to quit, like smoking. Food stops being entertainment and you no longer have a smörgåsbord of choices.

    Food shouldn't be entertainment, it is fuel. It is too sensual and detracts from character. I do love food and I am a trained gourmet chef. So it is one of my big innate weaknesses. Even had an interest for it last time around. But it will have to be for sometimes. It is not healthy. When food is reduced to basic nutrition twice daily, it makes you focus elsewhere. I will never be a total ascetic, but it is good for discipline to aim high and get rid of bad habits. Basically hedonistic behaviors. Smoking, drinking, gluttony, laziness and so on.

    The why of it? The men do not respect weakness in a leader. A common soldier can be allowed more leeway for weaknesses and childishness, but an underofficer or commissioned officer must be strong of character. An officer can have humor, but not be the laughing stock or one who inspires disgust in soldiers. As for modern people, I do not care for their sensibilities and do my own thing. If he is not superior in every way, an officer is not respected. If he is not superior, the men will not trust his judgement. An officer can never be seen drunken, whoring, delirious, puking, crying or the like. In the company of family and very close friends... Perhaps, and very seldom. Not the whoring part, though. Human weakness is not wanted in a leader. I like alcohol and smoking cigars, but I only do so once a year, with one or two friends. We drink and listen to or sing Soldatenlieder. Soldier's songs. They are like me, too. Reborn. One of them were with my old friend Meyer, whom I miss. Emil Wawrzinek. One cuban cigar (Cohiba), honey mead, great craft beer and a good dose of the schnaps. Plus enough meat to feed a large bear. From afternoon until sunrise. Preferably in the forest. Then another year.

    This attempted control of character - 99.5% of the time - when it comes to the everyday things, does translate into ability to remain in control while in much worse situations. Combat and aftermath, or captivity, for instance. Sometimes not even that is enough. But it always helps. Everyone has weak moments, but your level of control determines how badly you screw up. Practice makes perfect. Übung macht den Meister. Probably my favorite saying. In German, not in English. "Practice makes the master" is a wiser saying, because no one is perfect but God. Though, aiming high is conducive to personal improvement. I think Marcus Aurelius would agree. Fundamentally, this is a stoic and Roman thing. It very much separates Patrician from Plebeian.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  13. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ritter,

    Anything having to do with dieting seems to inevitably get to the subject of self-discipline across the board. I can remember when the types of standards, self-discipline and goals you mention used to be more common in men who aspired to something higher in life. Likewise, there was a somewhat different, but generally parallel list of disciplines practiced by those who aspired to something higher among the fairer sex. Unfortunately, most of this has been swept away in the tsunami of crass vulgarity and general trashiness that constitutes the modern sensibility and the bulk of modern culture. I think people on this forum are more likely to understand what I mean than the general populace. It is one of the benefits as well as one of the curses of having a "longer" perspective on things.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  14. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Wow, I really know how to kill a good conversation . . . .
     
  15. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Haha, it was one of those replies where you just nod in agreement and moves on. :D
     
  16. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Alright. So I am currently five days without anything but meat and water. Strangely, I have not felt any huge amounts of fatigue or brain fog in the transition from carbs to ketosis. The light inflammations I had in my knees, wrists, achilles tendons, ribs and shoulderblades are now seemingly gone. I can still physically feel the absence of it, like it is almost but not quite healed. But there is no real pain. My stomach is notably flatter and calmer without all the plant matter I ate up until dinner time on wednesday, when I made my switch. No problems with constipation whatsoever. I had brain fog and fatigue one day, but simply ate more meat and drank water. It passed away quickly. I have basically eaten a steak, fish or chicken twice daily. Sometimes a snack in between or in the evening. Some say cheese is okay, so I have had a little haloumi and Russian smoked cheese.

    Over all, I feel great. Very even energy levels, the GI tract feels awesome and my aches and pains are gone. I basically feel like a teenager and not a well-worn 30-something.

    Out of all the diets I have tried so far, this has had the biggest effect on the body.
     
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  17. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ritter,

    What are you using as your basic "source" on this diet? I.e., book(s), website(s), etc.

    Also, any info/clue in terms of differences between type O on this diet and other blood types?

    Keep us posted!

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  18. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    No info on blood types yet.

    As far a sources, I have been watching lots of videos on youtube from various people and especially dr. Shawn Baker who got this trend going. I first heard of it in a video from Jordan Peterson, the guy who criticizes feminism. When he was on the Joe Rogan show.

    It is mostly anecdotal, but there are studies as well. I figured I should give it a shot. We will see how I feel at new years. If it does not work, it should be evident by then. If I start to get scurvy, it will be pretty obvious.
     
  19. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Had a bit of a crash and had a hard time getting up out of bed earlier. Unusual. Willed myself to do so after a half hour of headache. Some coffee and a steak, and things are fine again. Think I ate too little yesterday. Did not eat in the evening.

    On another note, I am literally feeling little aches and pains going away. Expect i'll be good as new in a few weeks of this. I was never incapacitated or handicapped, just felt a bit worn. Skin quality has notably increased. It looks smoother and matte.

    Although that could be because I just made a superb batch of organic hempseed beard oil with a high concentration of essential oils. And yeah, I am a bit of a DIY hipster. Although, the argument against it being *just* the oil is that skin seems to be improving all over. And I just use the oil to feed/tame my footlong beard.

    Speaking of which. I'll post the recipe, since it was a particularly good batch. Somewhat pricey and large, but hey.

    Beard oil recipe "hippie mountain monastery"

    1 liter (2 pints, basically) organic hempseed oil.
    30 ml grapeseed oil
    30 ml active abyssinian seed oil
    15 ml castor oil

    Essential oils:
    10 ml sandalwood essential oil
    10 ml lemon essential oil
    10 ml geranium essential oil
    10 ml frankincense essential oil
    10 ml clary sage essential oil

    Mix in glass container using some form of clean utensil. Divvy up into glass bottles of appropriate size, like 30 or 60 ml.

    I was after the effects of the oils on skin and hair, not particularly the smells. But it is rather pleasant. Kind of like a monastery herb garden, with some leather workshop thrown in. Set me back 140$ or thereabout to buy the ingredients, but I sell it at cost to friends and acquaintances IRL. So I won't have to go through over a liter of the stuff before it goes bad. I use about 30 ml/month. This is not an ad, btw. Just some DIY stuff. One of a thousand hobbies. Can't be bothered to send anything for any amount of money. I charge anything at all because it would get too pricey to buy ingredients experiment otherwise.

    Caution! Do beware that pregnant women should not use clary sage at all, though. It may induce contractions. Always read up on any essential oil before use. Like how men should stay the hell away from lavender.
     
  20. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Speaking of which. I learned that entrecôte is basically ribeye steak. That's my basic staple. 300g at least/day. For the two other meals, other meats. Or more ribeye...
     

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