Carnivore diet

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by Ritter, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Day 8. Feeling pretty nice and calm, almost serene. Been dreaming a lot. Going to the range tonight for some quality Glock time, will see if it has impacted performance positively or negatively. As all things do. Ketosis is good in that it creates an even normal level at all times. Even when hungry, you don't crash like it does when the body runs on glucose.

    Dairy in high moderation is apparently okay, so I had a cup of high fat yoghurt earlier. Not reacting badly to it, it seems. Might eat some as a snack occasionally. When it is far enough removed from my meat so that it doesn't collide with nutrient uptake from the meat.
     
  2. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Thread edited by administration, off topic and divisive posts removed. Please be respectful of all views in your replies. ~Tman
     
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  3. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Thanks, Tinkerman. Much appreciated.

    Day 8 update #2.

    As for range/concentration performance, it went well. Scored tight groupings. Definitely no problems. Precision 25 meters, one hand. .22 LR and 9 mm. It was -6 degrees Celsius outside and I was shooting without gloves. Went really well for an hour or so until my fingers were frozen stiff. But I was the last to leave, anyway, at just over two hours. Shook less than usual. Probably due to less/no inflammation in my shoulder blades. Tested out two guns previously unknown to me (of the very expensive kind, a heavily modified Sig and a Tanfoglio) so it was a good day. So far I am liking this carnivore thing almost too much. Now I will go and have some pork collar.
     
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  4. Cat1965

    Cat1965 Senior Registered

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    saw my post was deleted...how can i be respectful when you are torturing animals for 10 minutes of pleasure? And once again i will say Atkins diet killed him...
     
  5. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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  6. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Cat,

    You seem to be a very nice lady (and I really like your avatar, which is probably reflective or your personality). However, Ritter is by no means the only meat eater on this board. Most of the people on this board (like most of the people on this planet) are meat eaters. Do you really think it is necessary to keep trying to start an argument about eating meat? What's the point of disrupting this thread in such a manner? If you really want to extol the virtues of vegetarianism I'm all for it, but why not start another thread of your own?

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  7. Cat1965

    Cat1965 Senior Registered

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    Hi Sea..i really do not want to start an argument. I am a peace-maker....I just don't understand how people can kill a live being for meat when there are so many other protein sources available. I will never understand why humans are not disciplined. And i will leave with this quoted material

    "Ancient Greek philosophers made their arguments based on the moral status of animals themselves. Greek mathematician and philosopher Pythagoras made the case against eating animals on grounds of their having souls like humans.

    Philosopher Plato, in Book 2 of the “The Republic,” thought of meat as a luxury that would lead to an unsustainable society, filled with strife and inequality, requiring more land and wars to acquire it.

    Two thousand years later, in 1789, Jeremy Bentham, father of the theory of utilitarianism, pointed to the animal suffering as morally concerning and therefore implicated meat consumption.

    He asked:

    “The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer? Why should the law refuse its protection to any sensitive being? … The time will come when humanity will extend its mantle over everything which breathes … ”
     
  8. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Interesting perspective. One of several counter-arguments. Personally, I mostly care about finding an optimal diet which is conducive to health and well-being. Lectins, gluten, phyto-estrogens, fiber and all sorts of things found in plant foods make them less appealing to me. I buy quality meat from right here. Quinoa or avocados or beans don't grow where I live. My ancestors never ate them. Didn't even eat much wheat until less than a thousand years ago. A blink of an eye, evolutionary speaking. I think that is a rational enough take on it. Eating mostly meat, dairy and sometimes local greenery with no or little lectins in them seems smarter.

    What is and what is not ideal diet may differ between people and peoples, of course. It stands to reason that people who descend from populations that lived through multiple ice ages are sorta... Hunters. Primarily speaking. Many Inuits still live like that. Those who do are healthy, more so than those who eat like westerners. Those tend to get fat and diabetic. Traditional inuit diet is about a hundred percent animal. Stands to reason that Asians and a lot of Europeans would do well on such a diet. We have lived through multiple ice ages and it has mostly been cold up here. Which is why I am trying it out. So far it is to my liking. Especially the lack of bloating and the sudden disappearence of inflammations. I tried the vegetarian and vegan ways before doing this. Food ethics are no good if they destroy your health. I am built for either low carb paleo or this carnivore thing. So far, carnivore feels better than paleo ever did. And I don't even have any real food allergies or intolerances.
     
  9. BenjaminFR

    BenjaminFR Senior Registered

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    Hello SeaAndSky, thank you for the interesting post.

    I have never heard of the work of d'Adamo, it is interesting as it fits my current conclusion regarding what diet fits me the most: I am A+, and have found after many years of trials and errors that a plant-based diet, with mainly vegetables, grains and fruits, is what is making me feel the most energetic, if I add in the mix mushrooms and tofu, which is widely available in China. I eat white meat, usually chicken, about 3 or 4 times a week, and have completely dismissed red meat from my diet. I found that after getting rid of red meat and pork, frequency of nightmares greatly diminished, along with ease of digestion, skin aspect and inflamations got much better, and felt a much stronger immune system. Funny enough, I have realized that I need on average about 90 minutes less sleep per night to feel well-rested.

    Thank you Ritter for your report, it is very interesting to read such a detailed account of your experience, although I do not feel that a diet based mostly on meat is suited for my metabolism. I have heard the same tale of experience from a friend who is from Kamchatka, and they have traditionally a mostly meat-based diet and this is how she found her balance aswell. Fascinating to see how "plastic" our metabolism can be, depending on our ancestry, considering that our digestive system is almost similar to our cousins the great apes, who have exclusively fruit eaters.
     
  10. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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    I had a rather nice full english today, sausages, baked beans, bacon, eggs, mushrooms. All inspired because of this thread, more so @Jim78 's post about a full irish which is very simliar
     
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  11. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Day 11. Ate five or so cherries as a test yesterday. Not liking it at all. Not feeling terrible, due to the small amount, but not liking it either. Comparable to getting a small whiff of pepper spray vs. being hit in the face with it. Rumblings are largely over. But I felt like before the experiment, for a while. Not worth it.

    As for the ancestry thing, I think it has more bearing than blood type. It seems people of all thinkable blood typed have problems with modern food-like products, including the industrial garbage meat available most places. Virtually anyone who is fat or sick owes it to modern 'food'.

    "Lectins" is the interesting key word here. Basically plant poison as a plant defense mechanism against herbivores and omnivores. Virtually all plants have it. People seem to tolerate it to a higher or lesser degree. A lot of folks don't. I would wager that nearly anyone with an autoimmune disease developed it because of chronic inflammations. I now know what to do to stop inflammations, and thus their source. I wish all those millions of people would know that, too. In my opinion, it is beginning to be quite clear that things are not as we have been repeatedly told everywhere. I have begun doubting that vegetables and fruit are healthy at all. If so, in extreme moderation with a mind to the possible consequences of continuous use.

    As for the plant based stuff, I don't buy it. I understand the ethics involved and I agree to a large part with the war against the food industry. I just don't think most vegans are very good examples of why one should eat vegan food. They look like they just stumbled out of a Gulag. Especially the soy boy phenomenon makes it very questionable.

    My upper arms are currently 50 cm. It is my genetic potential, after years of training. I have been there for years with minor fluctuations. When I tried plant based, carbs/glucose should in theory have kept me very able to achieve a good pump and theoretically muscle growth or at least maintenance at well above 2 grams of plant protein per kilo of body weight. What happened, despite mixing all sorts of beans, lentils, nuts, seeds, fruits and vegetables from all categories each day and eating tons of it five times per day... Is that I started losing muscle mass at an alarming rate. When I began the plant based diet in 2015, my arms measured 48 cm. I measured everything else as well, but arms are easy to take as an example. At the end of three months on vegan diet and raw food vegan diet, my arms were 41 cm. Despite overeating and training as I had before. One cannot remain physically able while on it. It starves the body. Some like that and race to get those pencil arms and legs. But I would never suggest it to anyone who works for a living, let alone any athletes competing in sports that require strength. There are of course anecdotal exceptions. Many of them debunked as closet omnivores and steroid users.

    I have seen tons of previously fat or previously fit people becoming weakened by this. Meanwhile claiming it is healthy. What it is, is a cult. I have a couple of friends who I would like to save from it. I have seen one of them become smaller and smaller and less energetic for every time we meet. Plagued by IBS and stuff. Not getting that the alleged cure is causing it all. People desperately want it to be healthy. But it is becoming more and more clear that it is just a wish, and not true. 'In my humble opinion' and so forth, for the sake of decorum.

    I do not have studies to back me up here. Not much, yet, anyway. There are exceptions. But there is also a general trend in all things. That is what I am talking about. This could very well be the cure to the disease and syndrome-ridden Western world. Eating (natural) meat and drinking water. So simple it is laughable. The inuits were the only ones not stupid enough to stop living like we were evolved to do. I feel extremely deceived. Could have saved myself a lot of trouble had I known what I now know. Instead there are studies to prove just about anything and a real quagmire. Impossible to navigate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  12. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    I remember from my Atkins dieting that a lot of meat eating changes your body odor for worse. There are studies that confirm that too. There are other foods that negatively affect your body odor too, asparagus and garlic come to mind.

    Have you noticed such a change? You might want to ask those around you.

    There are also other noticeable changes related to dieting, like constipation, and other intestine related effects (diverticulitis).
     
  13. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Asked. Nothing noticeable, apparently. My wife is brutally honest at all times, uncomfortably so at times, so I guess it is true. Also pregnant, so she is like a bloodhound. Had bad breath a couple of times. It gets godawful unless I floss after eating. So I carry one of those dental thingamagooks in my pocket. Meat has a habit of getting between teeth. I have some weird gene (overwhelmingly common in Japanese) but also found elsewhere. I smell sweet when I sweat, not oniony. I shower almost every day, unless it is out of my control, because I find bad personal hygiene intolerable in others as well as myself. Not because I smell, but because being filthy itches and I have to look proper. Somewhat presentable at the least. Plain and simple but quality clothes, sharp and clean. I hqve a beard this time, but I keep it groomed daily. 'Fascist' types, like yours truly, tend to be a bit on the neat side. I score something like 90-100 percent J on an MBTI test. Which would translate to very straight in communication, definitive, organized, neat, never says "maybe", always ten minutes early or more, never sloppily dressed and so forth. I do admit to not having spitshined jackboots. I wear Meindl, Austrian quality alpenjäger boots, and they are currently a little dirty. It is extremely muddy outside and I will bother when it freezes. Taking neatness to levels of stupidity is a sign of mental illness. But you would not catch me dead missing a chance to clean up, however. As I said, I find it intolerable in anyone, and I hold myself to much higher standards than I do everyone else. Not doing so would be very un-Prussian. Or un-Swedish, for that matter. Unless we are talking about lumpenproletariat. Believe me. If I started stinking, I would quit and my vegetables like a good boy.

    I have it in the back of my head, though, that food changes can have an effect on body odor. Normally. But that it is temporary. My father got that once, he said, when he changed from vegetarian back to meat eater. Stank for a while. I never had it. Don't get me wrong, it smells when I go to the bathroom too. Not roses, either. But body odor otherwise, nein. I make my own beard oil, so I smell like sandalwood and all sorts of fun stuff. Speaking of which. Time to shower.
     
  14. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    You wrote about your sweat smelling sweet ... I remembered reading about this being sometimes an indication of high blood sugar.

    Things that can make body odor worse include (link):
    • being overweight
    • consuming rich or spicy food and drink – such as garlic, spices and alcohol
    • some types of medication – such as antidepressants
    • certain medical conditions – a fruity smell can sometimes be a sign of diabetes, while a bleach-like smell may indicate liver or kidney disease
     
  15. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Had it all my life. Regardless of diet or lack thereof. No diabetes. I do a full medical every once in a while, to make sure nothing weird creeps up. It is genetic and not entirely uncommon, at least. The worst I have smelled is after two weeks in the field, during exercises, heavy work each day from sunup to sundown and little time to wash/camp. Body armor drenched and absolutely nasty. All sweat built up in protective gear will EVENTUALLY smell like a jockstrap. Everyone gets caked in filth in those scenarios.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_odor

    I have the gene in question. No recent asian ancestry(0.00%), but my haplogroup is N1C1, which means ugric or siberian origin a very, very long time ago. 60% of Finns and 10% of Swedes have that Y-DNA origin. I also have another cold-adapted gene common only in Switzerland and far northern Sweden and Finland. Basically allows for better regulation of temperature in cold weather. Common amongst those who are good at winter sports. I can't find it to save my life right now. Looked into the genetic thing a whole lot over the years, though. It also means I absolutely should not go to really warm places for prolonged periods of time. Like 2+ weeks abroad somewhere warm. I have to drink funny rehydrating stuff that is against hangovers, stay away from alcohol and stay in the sea/pool unless I want to be like a displaced husky in the Sonora desert.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ritter,

    Some of your references led me to interesting places vis-a-vis the carnivore diet. First, I found Jordan Peterson, who I was not familiar with and who appears to be some type of modern cultural phenomenon on the self-improvement/discipline psychological front. (I'm planning to look into some of his stuff when I can). Interestingly, I found out that he had constant health problems and had restricted gradually down to meat and green vegetables and more recently, to a pure carnivore diet, which seems to have fixed his problems. Second, I found out about his daughter, who had even worse problems, and has found cures through a pure meat diet, which she promotes:

    http://mikhailapeterson.com/

    I'm hesitant to promote something like this for everyone. However, I think that the blood type diet is just the tip of the iceberg and may provide a good starting point in terms of determining what type of diet matches genetic predispositions/weaknesses. However, ultimately, we may all have to feel our way forward from that point towards what works best for us. Also, this puts a bit of a dent in the whole "advanced souls always eat vegetarian" meme that I was thoroughly inculcated with in my early reading in esoterica. That may not be a bad goal from an aspirational standpoint, but some may simply not have the genetics to make that kind of diet work without experiencing severe health problems.*

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--Actually, this may be the reason why so many European vegetarians and wannabees seem to end up with lousy health. For the most part I admire their motivations, but it may just not be in harmony with their particular physical needs.
     
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  17. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    Day 13.

    Bingo. If anything, I feel more energized and in tune by this. I keep having new flashes of things past, these last few days. My civil war life is coming to the fore a lot. The diet itself is more fun than a normal ketogenic diet. Because it is higher in protein, lifting weights seem to suffer a bit less. Because excess protein does turn to glucose in the muscles, I am not as deflated. It is obviously worse for weight loss in that regard, but I feel great over-all. I do have some light food cravings when I get hungry, but they go away if I eat a rare ribeye steak.

    Gravitating more and more towards bloody beef. Chicken or pork doesn't work nearly as well. Seems like they do not contain everything that beef does, nutrient-wise. Or perhaps they do, but the mandatory overcooking takes it out of the meat. If I eat chicken or pork, I always end up drinking a glass of russian high fat yoghurt or something a while later. So I mostly just eat beef now. Bought a good stack of it earlier today.

    Perhaps not feeling perfect at the moment, because I have had too much work at home and at work, so I pulled a rare all-nighter conquering Japan in Total War: Shogun 2. An introverted have-to, for sanity's sake. Kind of sleep-deprived but stable. Hell, speaking of that, I wish I had a life in that period to brag about. I identify very strongly with those diehard Samurai. Their honor, integrity, grit and general excellence was astounding. It is hard to even pick one when you know a lot about the various Daimyo who fought in the Warring States Period (Sengoku Jidai). Japanese culture at that time was absolutely marvelous. At the end, though, Ieyasu Tokugawa is easily the most respectable ruler. As a warrior and a thinker, Miyamoto Musashi. Most were more rigid than those two.
     
  18. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ritter,

    In terms of your Shogun 2 binge, you need to go over and check out the video I linked on the "world has gone mad" thread next door. A little laughter never hurts.

    An interesting factoid: After the first couple of kids, my wife found that eating large amounts of high quality beef helped her to defeat morning sickness and feel better throughout her pregnancies.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  19. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    I will look. That thread is hard to make sense of, because I have a ton of people in it on my ignore list. After talking to Tinkerman a bit, I generally try to say my piece and not argue and hurt them. That is greatly helped by not interacting with them at all. So as soon as anyone writes something which I find immoral, very badly written, wrong or disgusting, I punch the ignore button instead of getting into a mud wrestling match with people that are impossible to reconcile with due to life choices, perversions, ideology, intelligence or other factors. I.e. when there cannot be a polite exchange of ideas, facts and opinions.

    But I will have a look, momentarily.
     
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  20. Ritter

    Ritter Senior Registered

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    For the sake of integrity, I have to admit that I just ate a handful of fruit.
     
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