Civilization Ending Natural Catastrophes

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by SeaAndSky, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    This thread is related to the ancient civilizations thread. The question that comes up with regard to civilizations of the past that disappeared is: what happened? Well, obviously, we can often take some clues from history showing droughts, climate change, conquest, etc. But when things get far enough back, these become very "iffy". We also have the issue of our own civilization's demise to think about. What did them in might also do us in.

    However, the emphasis here is on "natural"--not HOMOGENIC disasters. So, no real interest in homogenic global warming theories, wars, and etc. (I think getting the thread diverted into current homogenic global warming theories will just be a waste of time, cause needless arguments, and take away from its purpose). This thread is about "natural" events, even if precipitated by global impact of an asteroid or comet, solar flare events, distant novas, etc. Feel free to count in huge flood events, such as that which filled up the Black Sea or events associated with the end of the last Ice Age. Lots to talk about on this subject, and some may relate to some of the "Future Lives" events that some on this forum have reported.

    Anyhow, I'll get the ball rolling with this article on possible impacts by "centaur" comets--an apparently ignored source of devastation:

    http://news.yahoo.com/giant-comets-may-threaten-earth-astronomers-145625835.html

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  2. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    22
    SeaAndSky


    Another interesting subject you have raised. The doomsday people are always talking about such things. In some ways they could be right. The possibilities of a natural disaster causing massive destruction is a real possibility.


    Something I remember reading many years ago written by a scientist who studied weather patterns over hundreds of years.


    He was working on a theory that in time it will be found that many (no where near all) major cities in the world because of these long term changing weather patterns will run short if not run out of water completely. That was the theory he was working on. He would have died many years ago but I wonder what he would think if he was alive today.. So there is some possibility it may not be one quick devastating event but a long drawn out event like an incurable bug. When he was working on his theory there was no such term as "climate change" but I don't think that was the object of his work. From what I remember he went around with drills that drilled into the earth a long way and looked at the soil and could see the reoccurring weather patterns over many hundreds of years The reoccurring weather patterns over many hundred's of years would not wipe out the human race but its effects would have major impacts over a period of time


    Regards
     
  3. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    SW Ohio, USA
    Reading “Worlds in Collision” will give you some idea how close we possibly came to destruction in early biblical times. And, realizing the impact the overdue explosion of the Yellowstone region in the USA would have if it would be as big as the first two that make Krakatau look like Mt. St. Helens in comparison. The earth would supposedly suffer multiple global-winters where crops would fail.


    As for the combatants in the Climate debate, ask them just where we are in the multi-century “ice age” cycle. You will find that they have no idea, and I would wager that plate-tectonics is also something they are not familiar with. And the claim that we can be a major influence one way or another is really without merit. You might also ask those combatants what the optimum level of co2 (a minor greenhouse gas) is the healthiest for life on earth. And, how that compares to present levels.


    Just as the fellow John Tat spoke of probably never heard about “primary water” which may or may not exist in abundance. I would agree with John about the smallest of things as being a probable demise for us.


    The folks behind the geo-engineering of our atmosphere claim to be helping human-kind somehow, but I wonder what their true motives are. There are many things going on that could be fatal to mankind.


    Some stories about Atlantis indicate that their governing body sought more and more power and experimented widely in areas that produced bad results – similar to what most governments have been doing in the last forty years and what Monsanto and others are doing now.
     
  4. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I did quite a bit of research into this a few years ago. You can read my book on my blog or buy a copy at lulu.com, but I'm not here to promote it so ask in PMs.


    Most of the earth's water is in the southern hemisphere, while almost all of the earth's land masses are in the northern hemisphere. The last ice age spanned thousands of years and consisted of long periods of freezing interspersed with short periods of warming. This caused most of the ocean's waters to become tied up in glaciers, followed by intense flooding when they melted. Most life on the planet will be found at the areas where water meets land, due to those areas being the most life-sustaining ones. Unfortunately, they're also the places that get hit the hardest by the flooding and intense weather changes.


    When glaciers form in the north, they put heavy strains on the earth's crust as the weight of the ice builds up. At some point, the weight gets to e too much and the glaciers break off and cause tsunamis followed by long periods of flooding as the ice melts in the warmer seas. This initiates a warmer glacial period and things start to warm up all over (the glaciers were previously reflecting much of the sun's heat but now they aren't). The sudden break can also cause earthquakes and other tectonic activity from all the pressure. The edges of the tectonic plates happen to be located along the land/water borders where life tends to gravitate.


    If a comet or large asteroid happened to pass close enough to the earth during a glacial period, it could cause enough disturbance to initiate a global catastrophe.


    On a side note, while many believe that the ancient megaliths we find scattered across the globe were constructed as mere measuring devices for planting crops or studying the stars, I contend that they were built for the specific purpose of monitoring the position of the earth's poles after already having suffered a pole shift, for which evidence exists. They were afraid of future disasters. They built these megaliths on very solid ground, they used construction methods that would withstand earthquakes, and they were very concerned with the precise position of the earth in relation to the stars. There is very little to show that their interest in the stars went beyond this simple purpose. They had no great interest in astronomy for astronomy's sake, and even astrological considerations are short of evidence beyond there being a concern for outside forces playing on the planet as a whole. Only our modern interpretations of the evidence and the need to fit these ''primitive' people into our preconceptions that leads us to the conclusion that they went to all that trouble for such simple reasons.
     
  5. helz_belz

    helz_belz Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    London, UK
    Interesting stuff Anthony, but just a quick question; how would studying the stars help to predict a pole-reversal? Or did the peoples who constructed these sites just think that measuring the stars would predict a pole-reversal, but in reality was not possible?


    It is quite a while since I studied Geology, so am a little rusty, but I do remember learning about pole-reversals and tracing palaeo-reversals in seafloor basalts.
     
  6. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    SW Ohio, USA
    A lot of subduction occurs in coastal areas, but not all. India is still pushing into Asia for instance. Also, most plates "grow" in areas submerged under the oceans.


    As for helz-belz question, I would assume that building a structure that aligned to a star, North or South, would verify whether or not a change occurred in "crust" position.
     
  7. helz_belz

    helz_belz Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    London, UK
    That's the thing, a pole-reversal does not change any of the relative positions of the earth and it's landmasses to the stars. A pole-shift is the movement of the magnetic north pole to the position of the magnetic south pole, and visa-versa. The positions of the landmasses do not change, and neither does the position of the earth relative to the stars. The magnetic poles actually wander around slightly (within the vicinity of the poles) all the time without causing any major issues.


    There is debate about just how a pole-reversal occurs, and what the short-term effects might be for the earth's biosphere, but the geological record shows that it has happened many, many, many times, they have not had any effect on the cycles of plate tectonics, and life has continued.


    Of course, if a pole-reversal does occur, a magnet is the best way to measure this, as the 'north' point of the magnet will point towards the south rather than the north. Maybe the ancients used magnets in this way. But measuring the positions of the stars will not indicate if a pole-reversal has occurred.
     
  8. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    They weren't 'studying' the stars, they were keeping measure of the alignments so that during the ongoing earth changes they would be able to tell if the earth was shifting and in what way. There was no pole reversal, per se. The poles shifted only slightly, but it was enough to be quite noticeable and cause a lot of problems for any civilizations in existence. That's when they would have built these structures, not before.


    Consider the idea that tectonic or pole shifting had already occurred several times over a relatively short period (i.e. hundreds of years), and this was most obvious by the change in the starscape. The ancient scientists would have put their heads together to come up with some way of dealing with the surmounting threat that the entire world was going to turn belly up and throw everything topsy tervy. They couldn't exactly hold it all in place, but they could at least determine which way it was going and whether or not it was stabilizing itself. The stone structures were made to last many generations, since the glacial cataclysms were going on for such long periods. They had to remain stationary even under great duress, in order that the meaurements were accurate. These structures were meant to serve many generations, until the ice age ended, which they had no idea it ever would. These cataclysms didn't just happen once and all of a sudden. They took place again and again over many thousands of years, but the pole shifting itself was an event that occurred only a few times during all of this. The pole shifting affected the whole world, whereas the major cataclysms were more localized to certain areas.


    If you look at where all these structures are, you will find that many of them sit at the very edges of the major plates that shifted during the worst of the cataclysms during that time. A number of sites in South America are quite spectacular for the fact that they sit on a mountain range that rose up 10-12 thousand feet in a very short time (legends say it happened in one night), and evidence shows that the area was once a salt-water sea bed. The structure at Puma Punku, which is in this area, reveals stonework that far surpasses anything you might expect, and is certainly not the work of the people who live there. They claim the site was already there when they arrived thousands of years ago. There are also what appear to be docks for ships, and yet the nearest body of water is several miles away at Lake Titicaca. The site shows signs that it suffered a major earthquake at some point (undoubtedly when the mountains rose), but the structure is built with blocks of stone that fit together so well that it was able to withstand it with very little damage.


    I could go on detailing many other pieces of evidence, but it really requires some study of all of it to really begin to understand what might have taken place back then. I just find it too simplistic and a lot of overkill to build these structures just to study the stars for the sake of studying stars when all of this calamity was going on - and with no explanation for how they moved those stones, and so unnecessarily when a stick in the ground would have worked just as well.
     
  9. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    A pole 'reversal' will conceivably keep alignments the same while the poles themselves switch. A pole 'shift' is different, in that the poles wander (as you state below) out of their normal position, causing the earth's spin to change its axis of rotation. Such a change will cause a change in the starscape.

    Geological evidence shows that there were two major pole shifts, one placing the north pole somewhere in Hudson's Bay (at least 9600 BC), and an earlier one that placed it somewhere in the Yukon Territories (several thousands of years earlier).
     
  10. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I should add that a pole shift eventually sorts itself out, just like a spinning top will reright itself after being nudged off balance. I believe that this is what the ancient scientists were aware of and were looking for. Once the poles had rerighted themselves, they knew that things were going to get better.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2015
  11. helz_belz

    helz_belz Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    London, UK
    Wait, I think I get where you are coming from. We are talking about two different poles, yes? The magnetic poles, that wander around all the time and occassionally switch places; and the geographical poles of the earth rotation. Am I right or have I misunderstood?


    And is this the hypothesis we are discussing? Pole shift hypothesis


    I plan on doing some reading up on this over the next few days (like I said, its been a long time since I studied geology and I've gotten a little rusty)
     
  12. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yes helz_belz, we're talking about a geological shift, not just a magnetic one. Charles Hapgood was the main proponent of this theory, and I rely on him for the basic hypothesis. The wikipedia article you linked to barely scratches the surface of the subject and (typical of wiki) discredits it with a single reference to an obscure paper by two unknown scientists. OMG
     
  13. Anthony Forwood

    Anthony Forwood Arm Chair Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I just found this. Go down to where it talks about Stonehenge. According to the article, Stonehenge lines up perfectly with the North Pole when it would have been in the Hudson's Bay area, where Hapgood said it was approx. 11,000 BC. It does not line up with anything significant today.


    http://viewzone2.com/changingnorth22.html
     
  14. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Florida, USA
  15. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Okay, more news on this front. First, read this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...gs-confirm-comet-struck-earth-10950bc-wiping/

    Fresh confirmation for the collision that may have ended Atlantis or at least been one of the collisions that led to its eventual destruction. (Actually, its remnants may not have finally disappeared beneath the waves for thousands of years after this--but still part of the process).

    Second, here is a site that supposedly tracks comet collision info: http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/4related.html

    The main page has a header stating that we're headed for another by this August-October, 2017, with additional links: http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/index.html

    Anyhow, may be junk, but the whole topic continues to crop up, including in a new thread dealing with this type of thing.

    S&S

    PS--Maybe it is just coincidental that some of the richest folks in the world are on an underground "luxury" shelter buying spree. Hmmm. Do they know something they're not telling us?
     
  16. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1997
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    185
    Location:
    CA - USA
    I just glanced at the last link you provided. Dr. Barry Warmkessel? Credits himself in that link, the predictions outdated - did any come true?. (I only glanced) Show me his PhD credentials to call himself Dr. That article ends with Bible quotes too. Odd mixture IMHO.

    I like Gregg Braden's viewpoint. He says we are in a cycle and the cycles can be traced back scientifically for millions of years (earth changes and civilization). He showed a graph when I heard him speak about it last year. A DEEP TRUTH FROM GREGG ~~"An entire way of life has vanished, and we’ve never had an opportunity to mourn its passing so that we can let it go." It's each person's choice to embrace change and to ACT not react to it.

    Some sources like to use the FEAR factor like Dr BW - False Evidence Appearing Real. Depends on the reporter's POV.

    Again my hasty humble opinion. ;)
     
  17. Native Son

    Native Son Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    11
    Well, I note that this thread did not go very far, nothing shaking here. I would have imagined that some here with their past lives regression experiences would have perchance recalled a life or two in these remote past times, when some sort of major earth-change may have occurred, and come forth with a story or two to shed some light on it. I'm aware that there are many claims out there about people remembering past lives in Atlantis and Lemuria, and of course we have Edgar Cayce's many readings about people he gave readings to, telling many of them of their previous reincarnatons in Atlantis. And although Plato was the only and original source for the tale of Atlantis, I find it puzzling how Plato's Atlantis, over the last 150 years or so, came to be something completely alien to Plato's own Description, And even more puzzling how most today accept these strange notions of an Atlantis more inline with the Esoteric teachings of Helena Blavatsky, and Cayce's readings on it. But I do not wonder that Cayce gave us both reincarnation and Atlantis, because both are contained in Plato's work.

    I would be curious to see how soul learning, as claimed as the purpose of incarnation on earth, coincides with the historical development of human knowledge and civilization, especially as related to this thread and the concept of earth-changes and the devastating effects that are conjectured to have obliterated past civilizations to such an extent that we moderns have little or nothing to go on, except perhaps some ancients myths taken from oblivion, such as the Atlantis myth, or some of the more modern myths, like the ancient aliens advocates and their usual; "What if it were true" claims, as to aliens being responsible for the advanced technology that gave us those large megalithic structures, like Stonehenge, Pyramids, and other places around the globe, where our ancient alien experts have taken us to argue that humans on earth were not capable of such feats without the help of more advanced ETS.

    And as far has Hapgood's theory, it rests in peace with him. Some who are Atlantis seekers, and have proposed Antarctica as the location of Atlantis, very neatly use Hapgood's wild and debunked theory to make their case. And if the earth were ever to flip over, where our friends down under would find themselves on top and those of us in the northern hemisphere find ourselves down under, or if the earth were simply to change its directional rotation, then we would not need any megalithic structures to tells us what happened, as another ancient myth would be sufficient for that.


    STRANGER: I think that we may have a little amusement; there is a famous
    tale, of which a good portion may with advantage be interwoven, and then we
    may resume our series of divisions, and proceed in the old path until we arrive
    at the desired summit. Shall we do as I say?
    YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.
    STRANGER: Listen, then, to a tale which a child would love to hear; and
    you are not too old for childish amusement.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.
    STRANGER: There did really happen, and will again happen, like many
    other events of which ancient tradition has preserved the record, the portent
    which is traditionally said to have occurred in the quarrel of Atreus and Thyes-
    tes. You have heard, no doubt, and remember what they say happened at that
    time?
    YOUNG SOCRATES: I suppose you to mean the token of the birth of the
    golden lamb.
    STRANGER: No, not that; but another part of the story, which tells how
    the sun and the stars once rose in the west, and set in the east, and that the god
    reversed their motion, and gave them that which they now have as a testimony
    to the right of Atreus.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; there is that legend also.
    STRANGER: Again, we have been often told of the reign of Cronos.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, very often.
    STRANGER: Did you ever hear that the men of former times were earth-
    born, and not begotten of one another?
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is another old tradition.
    STRANGER: All these stories, and ten thousand others which are still more
    wonderful, have a common origin; many of them have been lost in the lapse of
    ages, or are repeated only in a disconnected form; but the origin of them is what
    no one has told, and may as well be told now; for the tale is suited to throw
    light on the nature of the king.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good; and I hope that you will give the whole
    story, and leave out nothing.
    STRANGER: Listen, then. There is a time when God himself guides and
    helps to roll the world in its course; and there is a time, on the completion of a
    certain cycle, when he lets go, and the world being a living creature, and having
    originally received intelligence from its author and creator, turns about and by
    an inherent necessity revolves in the opposite direction.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Why is that?
    STRANGER: Why, because only the most divine things of all remain ever
    unchanged and the same, and body is not included in this class. Heaven and
    the universe, as we have termed them, although they have been endowed by the
    Creator with many glories, partake of a bodily nature, and therefore cannot be
    entirely free from perturbation. But their motion is, as far as possible, single
    and in the same place, and of the same kind; and is therefore only subject to
    a reversal, which is the least alteration possible. For the lord of all moving
    things is alone able to move of himself; and to think that he moves them at one
    time in one direction and at another time in another is blasphemy. Hence we
    must not say that the world is either self-moved always, or all made to go round
    by God in two opposite courses; or that two Gods, having opposite purposes,
    make it move round. But as I have already said (and this is the only remaining
    alternative) the world is guided at one time by an external power which is divine
    and receives fresh life and immortality from the renewing hand of the Creator,
    and again, when let go, moves spontaneously, being set free at such a time as
    to have, during infinite cycles of years, a reverse movement: this is due to its
    perfect balance, to its vast size, and to the fact that it turns on the smallest
    pivot.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Your account of the world seems to be very reasonable
    indeed.
    STRANGER: Let us now reflect and try to gather from what has been said
    the nature of the phenomenon which we affirmed to be the cause of all these
    wonders. It is this.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: What?
    STRANGER: The reversal which takes place from time to time of the motion
    of the universe.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that the cause?
    STRANGER: Of all changes of the heavenly motions, we may consider this
    to be the greatest and most complete.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: I should imagine so.
    STRANGER: And it may be supposed to result in the greatest changes to
    the human beings who are the inhabitants of the world at the time.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Such changes would naturally occur.
    STRANGER: And animals, as we know, survive with difficulty great and
    serious changes of many different kinds when they come upon them at once.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.
    STRANGER: Hence there necessarily occurs a great destruction of them,
    which extends also to the life of man; few survivors of the race are left, and those
    who remain become the subjects of several novel and remarkable phenomena,
    and of one in particular, which takes place at the time when the transition is
    made to the cycle opposite to that in which we are now living............
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  18. Native Son

    Native Son Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    11
    ..........
    YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?
    STRANGER: The life of all animals first came to a standstill, and the mortal
    nature ceased to be or look older, and was then reversed and grew young and
    delicate; the white locks of the aged darkened again, and the cheeks the bearded
    man became smooth, and recovered their former bloom; the bodies of youths
    in their prime grew softer and smaller, continually by day and night returning
    and becoming assimilated to the nature of a newly-born child in mind as well as
    body; in the succeeding stage they wasted away and wholly disappeared. And
    the bodies of those who died by violence at that time quickly passed through
    the like changes, and in a few days were no more seen.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Then how, Stranger, were the animals created in
    those days; and in what way were they begotten of one another?
    STRANGER: It is evident, Socrates, that there was no such thing in the then
    order of nature as the procreation of animals from one another; the earth-born
    race, of which we hear in story, was the one which existed in those days–they
    rose again from the ground; and of this tradition, which is now-a-days often
    unduly discredited, our ancestors, who were nearest in point of time to the end
    of the last period and came into being at the beginning of this, are to us the
    heralds. And mark how consistent the sequel of the tale is; after the return of
    age to youth, follows the return of the dead, who are lying in the earth, to life;
    simultaneously with the reversal of the world the wheel of their generation has
    been turned back, and they are put together and rise and live in the opposite
    order, unless God has carried any of them away to some other lot. According
    to this tradition they of necessity sprang from the earth and have the name of
    earth-born, and so the above legend clings to them.
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly that is quite consistent with what has pre-
    ceded; but tell me, was the life which you said existed in the reign of Cronos in
    that cycle of the world, or in this? For the change in the course of the stars and
    the sun must have occurred in both.
    STRANGER: I see that you enter into my meaning;–no, that blessed and
    spontaneous life does not belong to the present cycle of the world, but to the
    previous one, in which God superintended the whole revolution of the universe;
    and the several parts the universe were distributed under the rule of certain
    inferior deities, as is the way in some places still. There were demigods, who
    were the shepherds of the various species and herds of animals, and each one was
    in all respects sufficient for those of whom he was the shepherd; neither was there
    any violence, or devouring of one another, or war or quarrel among them; and I
    might tell of ten thousand other blessings, which belonged to that dispensation.
    The reason why the life of man was, as tradition says, spontaneous, is as follows:
    In those days God himself was their shepherd, and ruled over them, just as
    man, who is by comparison a divine being, still rules over the lower animals.
    Under him there were no forms of government or separate possession of women
    and children; for all men rose again from the earth, having no memory of the
    past. And although they had nothing of this sort, the earth gave them fruits
    in abundance, which grew on trees and shrubs unbidden, and were not planted
    by the hand of man. And they dwelt naked, and mostly in the open air, for the
    temperature of their seasons was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on soft
    couches of grass, which grew plentifully out of the earth. Such was the life of
    man in the days of Cronos, Socrates; the character of our present life, which is
    said to be under Zeus, you know from your own experience. Can you, and will
    you, determine which of them you deem the happier?
    YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.
    STRANGER: Then shall I determine for you as well as I can?
    YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.
    STRANGER: Suppose that the nurslings of Cronos, having this boundless
    leisure, and the power of holding intercourse, not only with men, but with
    the brute creation, had used all these advantages with a view to philosophy,
    conversing with the brutes as well as with one another, and learning of every
    nature which was gifted with any special power, and was able to contribute
    some special experience to the store of wisdom, there would be no difficulty in
    deciding that they would be a thousand times happier than the men of our own
    day. Or, again, if they had merely eaten and drunk until they were full, and told
    stories to one another and to the animals–such stories as are now attributed to
    them–in this case also, as I should imagine, the answer would be easy. But until
    some satisfactory witness can be found of the love of that age for knowledge and
    discussion, we had better let the matter drop, and give the reason why we have
    unearthed this tale, and then we shall be able to get on. In the fulness of time,
    when the change was to take place, and the earth-born race had all perished,
    and every soul had completed its proper cycle of births and been sown in the
    earth her appointed number of times, the pilot of the universe let the helm go,
    and retired to his place of view; and then Fate and innate desire reversed the
    motion of the world. Then also all the inferior deities who share the rule of
    the supreme power, being informed of what was happening, let go the parts
    of the world which were under their control. And the world turning round
    with a sudden shock, being impelled in an opposite direction from beginning
    to end, was shaken by a mighty earthquake, which wrought a new destruction
    of all manner of animals. Afterwards, when sufficient time had elapsed, the
    tumult and confusion and earthquake ceased, and the universal creature, once
    more at peace, attained to a calm, and settled down into his own orderly and
    accustomed course, having the charge and rule of himself and of all the creatures
    which are contained in him, and executing, as far as he remembered them, the
    instructions of his Father and Creator, more precisely at first, but afterwords
    with less exactness. The reason of the falling off was the admixture of matter
    in him; this was inherent in the primal nature, which was full of disorder, until
    attaining to the present order. From God, the constructor, the world received
    all that is good in him, but from a previous state came elements of evil and
    unrighteousness, which, thence derived, first of all passed into the world, and
    were then transmitted to the animals. While the world was aided by the pilot in
    nurturing the animals, the evil was small, and great the good which he produced,
    but after the separation, when the world was let go, at first all proceeded well
    enough; but, as time went on, there was more and more forgetting, and the
    old discord again held sway and burst forth in full glory; and at last small
    was the good, and great was the admixture of evil, and there was a danger
    of universal ruin to the world, and to the things contained in him. Wherefore
    God, the orderer of all, in his tender care, seeing that the world was in great
    straits, and fearing that all might be dissolved in the storm and disappear in
    infinite chaos, again seated himself at the helm; and bringing back the elements
    which had fallen into dissolution and disorder to the motion which had prevailed
    under his dispensation, he set them in order and restored them, and made the
    world imperishable and immortal. And this is the whole tale, of which the
    first part will suffice to illustrate the nature of the king. For when the world
    turned towards the present cycle of generation, the age of man again stood still,
    and a change opposite to the previous one was the result. The small creatures
    which had almost disappeared grew in and stature, and the newly-born children
    of the earth became grey and died and sank into the earth again. All things
    changed, imitating and following the condition of the universe, and of necessity
    agreeing with that in their mode of conception and generation and nurture; for
    no animal was any longer allowed to come into being in the earth through the
    agency of other creative beings, but as the world was ordained to be the lord of
    his own progress, in like manner the parts were ordained to grow and generate
    and give nourishment, as far as they could, of themselves, impelled by a similar
    movement. And so we have arrived at the real end of this discourse; for although
    there might be much to tell of the lower animals, and of the condition out of
    which they changed and of the causes of the change, about men there is not
    much, and that little is more to the purpose. Deprived of the care of God, who
    had possessed and tended them, they were left helpless and defenceless, and
    were torn in pieces by the beasts, who were naturally fierce and had now grown
    wild. And in the first ages they were still without skill or resource; the food
    which once grew spontaneously had failed, and as yet they knew not how to
    procure it, because they had never felt the pressure of necessity. For all these
    reasons they were in a great strait; wherefore also the gifts spoken of in the old
    tradition were imparted to man by the gods, together with so much teaching
    and education as was indispensable; fire was given to them by Prometheus, the
    arts by Hephaestus and his fellow-worker, Athene, seeds and plants by others.
    From these is derived all that has helped to frame human life; since the care
    of the Gods, as I was saying, had now failed men, and they had to order their
    course of life for themselves, and were their own masters, just like the universal
    creature whom they imitate and follow, ever changing, as he changes, and ever
    living and growing, at one time in one manner, and at another time in another.
    Enough of the story, which may be of use in showing us how greatly we erred
    in the delineation of the king and the statesman in our previous discourse.
     

Share This Page