Could this be my first incarnation?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by TheDivineOne, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    I know I've touched on this before in other threads so sorry if i sound or am being repetitive but at the risk of doing just that, i can't help wondering to myself if this was one of my first if not my very first incarnation? How can one even begin to tell if a particular life is that being's first one or not?

    It just seems almost everyone here can rather vividly recall their previous lives and even remember events from many lifetimes ago and id their past life egos? Yet i can't. Even the past life visions i did have were pretty much just that — thoughts. I mean, think about it. You remember something, it not only becomes engraved in your mind but it also becomes something of a feeling, a strong belief or some sort. Unfortunately, i don't know a better way to describe it other than that vague description, but at any rate, any thoughts or speculations related to my past life or possibly lack thereof don't have any strong connection that i can relate to. They just feel like speculations, as if still trying to make sense of this current life now.

    I just don't want to waste my time and efforts trying to identify my past life and/or who i was if there isn't one to identify.
     
  2. baro-san

    baro-san Active Member

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    I'm sure you aren't at your first incarnation. To learn about past lives you have to access an altered state of consciousness. I recommend self-hypnosis.

    If the prize is valuable enough to you, you take the risk of wasting your time and efforts.
     
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  3. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator Staff Member

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    Everyone has had thousands and thousands of previous lives. Just as our bodies have evolved over vast periods of time, so have our 'minds' or consciousness, or whatever you want to call it.

    Often previous life memories may be a bit hazy, but that's normal. Especially at first. Many of mine were when they first came to me. Sometimes details come later when we learn to trust ourselves more. Follow your intuition. Let the memories come when they want and they will come at the right time. Trust yourself. The truth is always in there somewhere.
     
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  4. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    I just remembered something...

    I don't remember actually doing this, per se, but I remember my mom used to tell me I used to call her Jessica (which is not her name) when I was little, and would intimate this as residue from a previous life.

    Now I feel silly making this thread. :oops:
     
  5. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    Why do you feel Silly? Are you so easy to Convince? Just recalling a mere error of a child calling the mother by another name proves to you that you have reincarnated before? I, personally, have a problem in believing that, some recall their many reincarnations, whether in details or just vaguely, while others don't recall any at All. Where is the logic of it, and for what purpose does it serve for those that claim to recall past lives? I'm trying hard to make sense of it all without any personal proof, since like you, feel I have never reincarnated before, because I cannot recall anything, not even calling my mother by the wrong name, as a child.

    Again, even without any mainstream scientific proof for reincarnation, I have come to belive that we have a soul and that the soul is immortal. However this assurance I have derived not from any testimonials of those claiming to recall past lives, but from pure dialectic and philosophical point of view.

    Your starting this thread is no mere silly thing, and is well worth discussing further by those that have some wisdom to contribute on this forum; because life without contemplation in not worth Much, whether we are born once, or many times, if not an infinite number of times. For surely, if the soul is immortal, it has been so forever. True being is the place of the soul, and the physical world is of the body. The soul is always in the ever IS and the body dwells in the world of becoming: the world of was and will be, and never is. This is as far as I can agree about reincarnation. It does not matter if and how many times we reincarnate, but it matters how well we live each and every life, whether one or many in reality. And as a very wise man said once, only God Knows! Another wise one also said; what good will it be if a man, or a woman, gain the whole physical world but lose the soul? Obviously without a soul there would not be any more reincarnations, and then where would the fun of living be?
     
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  6. libshoppe

    libshoppe Omniscient yet Humble

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    Life and death are states of being. They are temporary, existence is not, it is eternal. Existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it, so 'creation' - in any form - is a myth.
    See: theory-of-reciprocity.com

    From plants to microbes to invertebrates and higher species, it is the nature of 'animated' fundamental particles (aka souls) to engage the resources of their immediate environment to re enforce and amplify the attributes of their nature. You have always existed and will continue to do so forever; however, we have little evidence as to the time between life and death cycles. You may have been most recently 'incarnated' just prior to your current DOB or 1x10~999 years ago (yeah, long before the popularly computed 'Big Bang'). In any case, have you ever tried to play a 78RPM record on a DVD player. Yes, the very architecture of your being may be different, making recall (replaying events in your mind's eye) difficult if not impossible.
    See: theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.html
     
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  7. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    Actually I tried a 45 RPM record once, both side A and B, but my DVD player's tray was not big enough, even though I also inserted an old audio-technica pickup (needle). And sometimes I have a nasty tick in my mind's eye and therefore i cannot even play once those events of having reincarnated into a microbe and up the chain, let alone replay. But seriously, it sounds as if you are playing a Meher Baba record, when it comes to reincarnation and I'm assuming that you are stating that the soul reincarnates into all forms of organic and inorganic material alike. Are you? And finally, regarding the big bang of the theoretical physicists, that too, being of the material world, is only one of the infinite number of big bangs that have occurred since the beginning of time. According to Plato, Time, Space, and matter were all created at the same time, so`that if one is to end, they all will end together, as anything that has a beginning will also have a middle, and unfortunately, also an end. That is why when we say that the soul is "immortal" having been created, may also have an end. But that end is depended upon the the creator, as the creator, technically speaking, is the only Being that is truly Eternal, but we are not, if God, the creator, or whatever term we want to address this eternal being by, deems to take away our immortality. And that is by making any one created soul just non-existent, as was our state before we were created. God gives it, and also takes it away, if he chooses to do so.

    This is what I tend to believe. But being that I truly know that I'm not the One God, and therefore must be one of the many created souls, I know that much about reality and myself. And that "much" is precisely that, much of nothing, as I only know that God knows, and the rest of us can only have opinions. About reality I mean, when I say that only God knows. In reality, sometimes I wonder if i even exist, to tell the truth, even though, "I think, therefore I am". Descartes gave himself a biased question, as he neglected to reason that perhaps someone else was doing his thinking for him, like God, maybe? I think that Plato's Parmenides dialogue would be interesting for those here that contemplated reincarnation and whether there is only one being pretending to be many, or if there are many pretending to be One. Or as Meher Baba related to us that God is the only reality, and the rest of us are just a bunch of some kind of carrots in his dreams. Which is very interesting and thought provoking idea; God only exists, and he falls asleep forgetting and not knowing that he is not god, and then, after becoming every and each material object in the material world, such as one grain of sand, and so on, wakes up to realize that he is god. And then, again, falling in slumber, repeats this dream over and over, and over again in eternity. And we are just part of his dreams, as he also dreams to be each and every human being too, before waking up. But then, thinking from a dream entity, if I have a mind of my own and dream characters are allowed to express ourselves, I would say that Meher Baba is a god in hell and not in heaven, if this sleeping and waking is all god can do. For sure, to be isolated as being the only one and alone in the seen or unseen universe, is no heaven to me, but hell. Then I would rather be a dream character than be god, if i had a choice. But I suspect, like most of the many, that we are both one and many, and god, if one exists, then he made us many, as one is the loneliest number that could ever be, and two is not much better, as at least we need to be three; father, son, and holy ghost, to make the Christians accept reincarnation.

    Again, all kidding aside, we know nothing for sure on this side of existence, and if there is something after life here, perhaps we may know a little something more then. But, perhaps not even in-between lives, if there be such a thing, we may know no more than we do here. And who is to say that, as some claim, we may just be a simulated computer program of sort? Which means that everything we think we know has all being programmed in our minds, and that is all that we can see with our mind's eye. Reality may be stranger than our best fiction, as we know it. Myths may turn out to be reality, and our perception of reality here in this world of senses may just be a myth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  8. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    I thought that considering what I'm going through now and wanting to have another earth incarnation after this, that this might be my first life on Earth... and I for one refuse to believe or accept in Christian doctrine that we only have one Earth life and that's it. I want to come back after this life, and i'm here wondering if anyone else here feels the same way i do. There are questions that in this earthly form can never be answered and i've come to accept that. But that will never stop me as i'm going to hold on to my dreams and desires for my immediate next life from now, beyond the minute i've taken my final breath in this life, and until i've taken my first in my next life.
     
  9. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator Staff Member

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    Not silly. A memory. Follow your intuition. Trust yourself.
     
  10. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator Staff Member

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    It's a continuum. Deep breath. Perspective. Gulp. :)

     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  11. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome to the forum Native Son

    "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" Matthew 16:26

    Seems like you have some stories to share?

    Have you come across the idea of Plato's cave before? All very interesting concepts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
    "...Plato has Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them, and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality. Socrates explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not reality at all, for he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the manufactured reality that is the shadows seen by the prisoners. The inmates of this place do not even desire to leave their prison; for they know no better life. The prisoners manage to break their bonds one day, and discover that their reality was not what they thought it was..."
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  12. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    Tanguerra,

    You seem to put weight in music, as we are stardust, our bodies are, but the golden part is the soul, and a billion years as carbon or other stuff is insignificant and not relative to existence, as there is no amount of time that can express it. Existence is timeless, since time is a created thing. These things cannot be comprehended from the perspective of the material world. Neither can one really understand the allegory of the cave as given by wikipedia, or other similar sources. I'm not even certain that the academic world really understands what Socrates was wanting to tell us. Where is Socrates, or even Plato, when we need them to expound and explain the allegory more than it has already in the dialogue itself? I mean where are the reincarnations of our dynamic duo today? Have they reincarnated since being Socrates and Plato? However, the prisoners are us, in the physical world. The shadows and the cave is our physical universe. We are prisoners of the body, as the "we", in essence, are the souls who incarnate and reincarnate. And those prisoners that refuse to leave the cave are those of little faith, and those who fail to eventually see it, or do not come to reason that the physical world is really an illusion.
     
  13. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't see myself as a prisoner in a cave, or 'trapped' in my body. I don't see this Earthly life as a trial. I see myself as an entity having this experience now. I think all levels of being are interesting and valuable in their own way. Why would one level of consciousness be an illusion and another not?
     
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  14. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    Subconscious experience? How do you think when you sleep at night, the things you experience during a dream sequence you believe is real up until you wake up in the morning?

    My other guess is that because we tend to not remember our past lives all that much.
     
  15. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    ........When all of them, both those who show themselves in the sky, and those who
    retire from view, had come into being, the Creator addressed them thus:–
    ’Gods, sons of gods, my works, if I will, are indissoluble. That which is
    bound may be dissolved, but only an evil being would dissolve that which is
    harmonious and happy. And although you are not immortal you shall not die,
    for I will hold you together. Hear me, then:–Three tribes of mortal beings
    have still to be created, but if created by me they would be like gods. Do ye
    therefore make them; I will implant in them the seed of immortality, and you
    shall weave together the mortal and immortal, and provide food for them, and
    receive them again in death.’ Thus he spake, and poured the remains of the
    elements into the cup in which he had mingled the soul of the universe. They
    were no longer pure as before, but diluted; and the mixture he distributed into
    souls equal in number to the stars, and assigned each to a star–then having
    mounted them, as in a chariot, he showed them the nature of the universe, and
    told them of their future birth and human lot. They were to be sown in the
    planets, and out of them was to come forth the most religious of animals, which
    would hereafter be called man. The souls were to be implanted in bodies, which
    were in a perpetual flux, whence, he said, would arise, first, sensation; secondly,
    love, which is a mixture of pleasure and pain; thirdly, fear and anger, and the
    opposite affections: and if they conquered these, they would live righteously,
    but if they were conquered by them, unrighteously. He who lived well would
    return to his native star, and would there have a blessed existence
    ; but, if he
    lived ill, he would pass into the nature of a woman, and if he did not then alter
    his evil ways, into the likeness of some animal, until the reason which was in
    him reasserted her sway over the elements of fire, air, earth, water, which had
    engrossed her, and he regained his first and better nature. Having given this
    law to his creatures, that he might be guiltless of their future evil, he sowed
    them, some in the earth, some in the moon, and some in the other planets; and
    he ordered the younger gods to frame human bodies for them and to make the
    necessary additions to them, and to avert from them all but self-inflicted evil.......
     
  16. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    .......And now look again, and see what will naturally follow it’ the prisoners are
    released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated
    and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look
    towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he
    will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the
    shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before
    was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his
    eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision, -what will be
    his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the
    objects as they pass and requiring him to name them, -will he not be perplexed?
    Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the
    objects which are now shown to him?
    Far truer.
    And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain
    in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the objects of
    vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than
    the things which are now being shown to him?
    True, he now
    And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged
    ascent, and held fast until he’s forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he
    not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes
    will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now
    called realities.
    Not all in a moment, he said.
    He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And
    first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects
    in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light
    of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and
    the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?
    Certainly.
    Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the
    water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he
    will contemplate him as he is.
    Certainly.
    He will then proceed to argue that this is he who gives the season and the
    years, and is the guardian of all that is in the visible world, and in a certain
    way the cause of all things which he and his fellows have been accustomed to
    behold?
    Clearly, he said, he would first see the sun and then reason about him.
    And when he remembered his old habitation, and the wisdom of the den and
    his fellow-prisoners, do you not suppose that he would felicitate himself on the
    change, and pity them?
    Certainly, he would.
    And if they were in the habit of conferring honours among themselves on
    those who were quickest to observe the passing shadows and to remark which
    of them went before, and which followed after, and which were together; and
    who were therefore best able to draw conclusions as to the future, do you think
    that he would care for such honours and glories, or envy the possessors of them?
    Would he not say with Homer, Better to be the poor servant of a poor master,
    and to endure anything, rather than think as they do and live after their
    manner?
    Yes, he said, I think that he would rather suffer anything than entertain
    these false notions and live in this miserable manner.
    Imagine once more, I said, such an one coming suddenly out of the sun to
    be replaced in his old situation; would he not be certain to have his eyes full of
    darkness?
    To be sure, he said.
    And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows
    with the prisoners who had never moved out of the den, while his sight was still
    weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be
    needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he
    not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came
    without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if
    any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch
    the offender, and they would put him to death.
    No question, he said.
    This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the
    previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is
    the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards
    to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor
    belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God
    knows.
    But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge
    the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when
    seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right,
    parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate
    source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon
    which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his
    eye fixed.

    I agree, he said, as far as I am able to understand you.
    Moreover, I said, you must not wonder that those who attain to this beatific
    vision are unwilling to descend to human affairs; for their souls are ever hastening
    into the upper world where they desire to dwell; which desire of theirs is
    very natural, if our allegory may be trusted.

    Yes, very natural.
    And is there anything surprising in one who passes from divine contemplations
    to the evil state of man, misbehaving himself in a ridiculous manner; if,
    while his eyes are blinking and before he has become accustomed to the surrounding
    darkness, he is compelled to fight in courts of law, or in other places,
    about the images or the shadows of images of justice, and is endeavouring to
    meet the conceptions of those who have never yet seen absolute justice?
    Anything but surprising, he replied.
    Any one who has common sense will remember that the bewilderments of
    the eyes are of two kinds, and arise from two causes, either from coming out of
    the light or from going into the light, which is true of the mind’s eye, quite as
    much as of the bodily eye; and he who remembers this when he sees any one
    whose vision is perplexed and weak, will not be too ready to laugh; he will first
    ask whether that soul of man has come out of the brighter light, and is unable
    to see because unaccustomed to the dark, or having turned from darkness to
    the day is dazzled by excess of light. And he will count the one happy in his
    condition and state of being, and he will pity the other; or, if he have a mind
    to laugh at the soul which comes from below into the light, there will be more
    reason in this than in the laugh which greets him who returns from above out
    of the light into the den.
    That, he said, is a very just distinction.
    But then, if I am right, certain professors of education must be wrong when
    they say that they can put a knowledge into the soul which was not there before,
    like sight into blind eyes.

    They undoubtedly say this, he replied.
    Whereas, our argument shows that the power and capacity of learning exists
    in the soul already; and that just as the eye was unable to turn from darkness to
    light without the whole body, so too the instrument of knowledge can only by
    the movement of the whole soul be turned from the world of becoming into that
    of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being, and of the brightest
    and best of being, or in other words, of the good.
     
  17. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Native Son,
    Your love for the alleged words of those ancient philosophers is apparent, and it appears that you would like to share your understanding of them. It is interesting that their musings are still relevant all these centuries later, although I am not clear about how your message applies to DO's original question.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  18. libshoppe

    libshoppe Omniscient yet Humble

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    Created?

    Before a thing can change or be changed, act or be acted upon, it must exist. Those who might dissent obviously believe in things that don't exist. Fortunately there are now medications for that. This simple, self-evident axiom means change is a "function of" existence, something derived from the phenomenon of being. No phenomenon can be the result of its own subordinate derivative, so existence must be the source of cause and effect and not the result of it. From Big Bang to Genesis any hypothesis of cosmic creation is inherently contrary to logic.

    Conditions are created, existences aren't, they are not temporal in nature...not the result of cause/effect. You exist. The principle that explains the phenomenon of existence is called Equilibrium:
    theory-of-reciprocity.com/
     
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  19. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    It's obvious that you have lost the remembrance of that one glimpse all we humans have had of reality. Otherwise you would not have posed such a question. Also, you seem to be stuck at a point most find themselves, and which is that, like most here, they think that they are the measure of all things.........this is an old argument that was dispelled long ago. The argument was championed by the Greek Sophist, Protagoras. The Divine one quoted you, and correctly and justly referenced our dream states in reference to illusions and reality. Here following is a more expounded argument on your question. Our personal perceptions are not the measure of all things, as there is an "absolute" standard to measure all things.

    .......’When I hear your arguments, I am marvellously ready to assent.’
    ’But I ought not to conceal from you that there is a serious objection
    which may be urged against this doctrine of Protagoras. For there
    are states, such as madness and dreaming, in which perception is
    false; and half our life is spent in dreaming; and who can say that
    at this instant we are not dreaming? Even the fancies of madmen
    are real at the time. But if knowledge is perception, how can we
    distinguish between the true and the false in such cases? Having
    stated the objection, I will now state the answer. Protagoras would
    deny the continuity of phenomena; he would say that what is different
    is entirely different, and whether active or passive has a different
    power. There are infinite agents and patients in the world, and these
    produce in every combination of them a different perception. Take
    myself as an instance:–Socrates may be ill or he may be well,–and remember
    that Socrates, with all his accidents, is spoken of. The wine
    which I drink when I am well is pleasant to me, but the same wine
    is unpleasant to me when I am ill. And there is nothing else from
    which I can receive the same impression, nor can another receive
    the same impression from the wine. Neither can I and the object
    of sense become separately what we become together. For the one
    in becoming is relative to the other, but they have no other relation;
    and the combination of them is absolute at each moment. (In
    modern language, the act of sensation is really indivisible, though
    capable of a mental analysis into subject and object.) My sensation
    alone is true, and true to me only. And therefore, as Protagoras says,
    ”To myself I am the judge of what is and what is not.” Thus the
    flux of Homer and Heracleitus, the great Protagorean saying that
    ”Man is the measure of all things,” the doctrine of Theaetetus that
    ”Knowledge is perception,” have all the same meaning. And this is
    thy new- born child, which by my art I have brought to light; and
    you must not be angry if instead of rearing your infant we expose
    him.’
    ’Theaetetus will not be angry,’ says Theodorus; ’he is very goodnatured.
    But I should like to know, Socrates, whether you mean to
    say that all this is untrue?’
    ’First reminding you that I am not the bag which contains the arguments,
    but that I extract them from Theaetetus, shall I tell you
    what amazes me in your friend Protagoras?’
    ’What may that be?’
    ’I like his doctrine that what appears is; but I wonder that he did
    not begin his great work on Truth with a declaration that a pig, or
    a dog-faced baboon, or any other monster which has sensation, is
    a measure of all things; then, while we were reverencing him as a
    god, he might have produced a magnificent effect by expounding to
    us that he was no wiser than a tadpole. For if sensations are always
    true, and one man’s discernment is as good as another’s, and every
    man is his own judge, and everything that he judges is right and
    true, then what need of Protagoras to be our instructor at a high
    figure; and why should we be less knowing than he is, or have to
    go to him, if every man is the measure of all things? My own art
    of midwifery, and all dialectic, is an enormous folly, if Protagoras’
    ”Truth” be indeed truth, and the philosopher is not merely amusing
    himself by giving oracles out of his book.’
    Theodorus thinks that Socrates is unjust to his master, Protagoras; but he
    is too old and stiff to try a fall with him, and therefore refers him to Theaetetus,
    who is already driven out of his former opinion by the arguments of Socrates......
     
  20. Native Son

    Native Son Member

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    Were you not created by a male and a female? Were you not changed? Where were you before your birth, except in the sexual desire, imagination and wish of your parents? Fortunately there always has been a remedy for that too! And logic is an instrument for the use of a few specialists and masters. For there is logic of logic, for which logic cannot be comprehended without it. You are a phenomenon resulted from a phenomenon that you have no idea of, and not in any state of balance you may imagine. The BB is an idiotic concept conceived by idiots who have no conception of real existence. Those proponents are the same that strain at a gnat, and yet swallow a camel. For the say that the whole physical universe was contained in a thing no bigger than an atom before the Big Bang, which in terms of ratio wise, we can safely say that the whole physical universe came to be from practically nothing. Yet these same ones reject the traditional concept of a Creator creating the visible physical universe from nothing. And regarding Genesis, it is just an allegory for those that have a mind to understand it, which obviously you don't. Contrary to your logic or not, you have an opinion, whether original or borrowed, which lacks substance, and I'm afraid that you may be the one that needs medicament, but one to be administered by a master of reality.

    And I mean not to be rude, as you were, but you need to change your credo logo, as you are neither omniscient, nor humble, to say the least.
     

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