Ian's story.

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by 4mysonK, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Hi,

    I’m so glad to have found this forum. Also, I emailed Carol, and she suggested I post my story here. Hopefully, you guys can give me some insight into this. The other stories and comments have helped me make connections I’ve never made before, so now my experience is even more detailed than I first told Ms. Bowman. Please excuse the length!

    I have a three-year-old son named Ian. He’s really strange, but in a good way. The kid is just amazingly good. Nearly every time we go out, a stranger will comment on how ‘adult-like’ he is, and that’s true. He acts like a very protective, very smart MAN. Also, his comprehension level and reactions to things surprise me constantly.

    When he was 10 months old, I found out I had a brain tumor, which had to be surgically removed immediately. That left me unable to walk, eat, write, etc. (I’m much better now, by the way.) I also have narcolepsy. My life isn’t easy, to say the least, and I swear, if I had any other ‘kind’ of child, I don’t know how I’d manage.

    When he wasn’t even two, he’d come to me as I cried from either physical or mental pain. “Mama cry?” He might pat my knee. “Mama ok?” Smile. “It ok, Mama.” Then, he’d inevitably go get his Dad to help me, even when I hadn’t asked him to. “Daddy, Mama need you.”

    During these situations, he never seemed scared or confused. Keep in mind that I had an eye-patch, half of my face was paralyzed, my voice was different, too. I was scary! Plus, I’d sometimes be crying kind of hysterically, with no intention of him even seeing me. He’d seek me out. Always calm, cool, and collected. But at the same time, he’s always warm and protective. This has continued in the same way. Last month, my rib suddenly became dislocated, and I couldn’t breathe. I was gasping for air, and although he was concerned, he never panicked. Last week, I fell in the kitchen, and this time, I was screaming in pain and crying. He came running, but his reaction was, “Where is the phone? I need to call Daddy.” He was worried about me, but as usual, his need to DO something was very strong. No fear.

    Now for the things he’s said:

    Ever since he could talk, he would mention “Soh-Soh” and sometimes “Fay-oh.” I never understood where he got these so-called names, but he would never falter. Soh-Soh was especially important to him. I’m not saying he had an imaginary friend he talked to. He talked about these people as if they were real. Soh-Soh, as he’s always insisted, is his girl. He’s going to marry her, no doubt about it. In fact, when he sees any kind of flower, real or fake, he rushes to it. Just this week, we were in a craft store, and he brought me some. “Mom, I’m going to get these for the wedding.” La-ti-da! “What wedding?” (I TRY to never prompt his answers.) “To Soh-Soh.” “Ah, yes. Well, we’ll get her some later.” “Ok.”

    This has happened many, many times. He mentions his wedding a LOT. He’s also very adamant that Soh-Soh loves red. Everything seems to be red. Her house, her dress, her lips, her flowers, etc. Once, I was making a bouquet for a friend, and when he saw it, his mouth dropped. It was all red and pink. “Mom! Mom, is that for Soh-Soh?!” “No.” He got mad! “But red is her favorite color! Let me have that for my wedding!” He got so riled-up (which is extremely rare) that I finally gave him some leftover flowers. He wasn’t completely satisfied, but took them. *By the way, he doesn’t particularly care for red.*

    Before I was even interested in past lives, this is the story he told me. I didn’t prompt him AT ALL, and we were cooking at the time, so it seemed to be out of the blue.

    "In my old life, my best friend was a king. He (did something to) Soh-Soh. I took my sword and tried to kill him, but he killed me first with his sword."

    I was raised a Christian, so I’ve never believed in these things, but as was mentioned in the “4 signs,” I somehow knew this was no imaginary story. His tone was completely different. I wish I could remember exactly what the ‘king’ did.

    After reading parts of the forum, I realized I should try to catch him when he was relaxed, so after waking, I immediately put him in the bath. During this time, he told me that Soh-Soh’s house is red, but it has ‘yellow stuff’ all over it, in every room. I asked him what kind of yellow, and he pointed out the faucet, which looks gold, then he went on to tell me all the rooms it was in. He also said her Dad is really nice. There’s more, but I can’t tell you everything. Too much!

    Later, I began to write down our conversations. Excuse the ‘script’ of it, but that way seemed easiest to understand.

    This past Friday:
    We were talking about dreams, and he was telling me about a particular one. I said, "Did you really dream that or is it a pretend dream?" He said "real". (More discussion.) Since he seemed sure about reality and pretend, I continued.

    Mom: Is Soh-Soh for real or for pretend?

    Ian: .........Just pretend. (Grinning. That's the first time he's ever said that.)

    Mom: Ok. (Phew!) You sure have been talking about her for a long time.

    Ian: Well, she comes to my house.

    Mom: When does she come to your house?

    Ian: She comes to my house all pretty for a dance. (He tried closing the door, then opened it to correct himself.) ...I mean, wedding.

    Mom: But when does she come to your house?

    Ian: ......Saturday? (He says that for every kind of WHEN question, so I just kept going.)

    Mom: No, I mean, does she come to your house now?

    Ian: Soh-Soh is coming up in my life.

    Mom: Coming up in your life? What does that mean?

    Ian: She's coming to me.

    Mom: What? Is she real or not?

    Ian. She's real, but she's not here. She's coming up in my life.

    Mom: How?

    Ian: That's just how everything goes.
     
  2. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    A few minutes later, I started straightening my hair, and I thought I'd see if he'd talk more. I thought if I kept myself busy, it might keep him at ease, and not seem like I was giving him a test. He was in the other room, so I yelled for him.


    Mom: Leon! (He told me the other day that Soh-Soh calls him Leon.)


    Ian: What? (Comes running.) I'm Ian.


    Mom: Oh.


    Ian: Leon is what Soh-Soh calls me. That's the old Ian. I'm the new Ian.


    Mom: Oh, I see.


    Ian: He was mean. (I’d never heard that before.)


    Mom: Oh? Was he mean to Soh-Soh?


    Ian: Yes, he was really mean to Soh-Soh. He was like this: (Angry face.)


    Mom: Oooh, ok. So...uh...(trying to keep up the convo)...Is Soh-Soh a ghost?


    Ian: (laughing) Nooo, she's real!


    Mom: Oh, ok. Well, uh....does Leon speak English?


    Ian: No. He goes like this.....(stands and stares for about 5 seconds)....blah, blah, blah.


    Mom: Those aren't words. He says that?


    Ian: Yeah, like...blah, blah, blah.


    Mom: Can you understand him?


    Ian: Yeah.


    Mom: Where does he live?


    Ian: Center Hill sky.


    (That's where I grew up, not the town's name, but the community. The area is just called that by people around there, not mapped. I’m sure he’s heard someone mention that before, but it’s not something we sit around discussing.)


    Mom: Oh. So, can I meet him?


    Ian: No! He's mean.


    Mom: But, I thought he was you.


    Ian: Yeah, but he was mean. Now he's dead. Now I'm the new Ian. Soh-Soh thinks it's funny my name is Ian.


    (Can’t remember what was next.)


    Mom: Where did you say he lived?


    Ian: In a old grass house....in Center Hill sky.


    Mom: Ah, ok. How long did he live there? (I should've known better. That's a hard concept---years, months, even days.)


    Ian: Hm....fifty hours?


    Mom: Is that a long time?


    Ian: Yes, a long time. Look Mom, it's like this.


    *He's standing near the bathroom door, on one side is this really old door knob that's brassy, but the finish is worn off badly. On the other side is a new knob that's silver.*


    Ian: See, Leon lives on this side. The old side. The one with the hole. (Points.) Now, I'm the new Ian and we live on this side. (Points to silver side.)


    Mom: So, is Leon still there?


    Ian: No, he's dead.


    *When typing this to record it, I started getting confused as to what had been said, so since he was beside me on the sofa, I asked.*


    Mom: What was it you said about Leon? Is he alive?


    Ian: I'm Leon.


    Mom: I know, but I can't remember what you said.


    Ian: I'm Leon.


    Mom: Did Leon's body die?


    Ian: No. I AM Leon.


    Mom: I know, but you're Ian and you're alive.


    Ian: Yeah.


    Mom: Ok. (Forget it!) What did Leon's body look like?


    Ian: A snake. A suit. A snake suit like he's a superhero.


    Mom: (Laughing.) You're just making that up.


    Ian: (Turns and POW! Evil eye!) I am not! I'm serious!


    Mom: Ok, so how would Leon have a snake body....or suit or whatever.


    Ian: He had them everywhere. Here and here and here. (Pointing.) All over his body.


    Mom: Snakes on a suit?


    Ian: Nooo, they were on his skin. Tattoos all over. They were red.


    Mom: Leon liked red?


    Ian: Yes, but I like green now.


    Mom: Oh.


    (Insert stuff I can't remember! Sorry.)


    Mom: I don't understand all this old Ian, new Ian stuff. I don't remember stuff like that.


    Ian: But I do. I remember it.


    We talked some more and he was going on and on about all kinds of odd things. I kept trying to ask him questions, so he just put his head down.


    Mom: Am I confusing you?


    Ian: Nope, but I'm confusing you!


    An hour or so later, we went for a walk. He was very preoccupied by jumping, playing with a big stick, playing in the leaves, etc. I thought it would be a good time to talk to him while he wasn’t thinking so hard. Also, I want to mention that he doesn’t spend time thinking about the answers at all, unless he looks to be ‘trying to remember.’


    We came upon some big rocks, where someone had lined their drainage system, and he began crawling on them. He said it looked like a mountain, and I asked if he’d ever climbed a mountain. He said, “Oh yes, with Soh-Soh and Kang-Seok.”


    *Kang-Seok is this Korean friend of ours. I’ll get to that later.*


    Mom: Oh, so you knew Kang-Seok?


    Ian: Yes, he was my good friend.


    Mom: Ahh. What was his name?


    Ian: It was Kang-Seok. He came back as Kang-Seok again. (NO prompting from me!)


    More walking, but I’m not talking.


    Ian: Mom, you’re not saying my name right.


    Mom: How do you say it?


    Ian: It’s not LEE-on. It’s Li-AHN. (Li-an? Li-ang? Not sure.)


    We kept walking and met an old man. Ian will talk to anyone. He’s completely unafraid of strangers and will only mildly put on a shy act for a few seconds, if at all. He walked right up and talked about the stick he was carrying. When we walked away, he said, “That old man sure was nice. But he was old.” I asked him, “What happens when you’re old?” He didn’t know.


    So, I wondered if maybe he’d never gotten old. I waited a bit, and while he played in the leaves, I asked something more.


    Mom: What happens when we die?


    Ian: You go to jail.


    Mom: What does jail look like? (He knows what a jail is.)


    Ian: It looks like a dead city. A dead, dead city.


    Mom: Oh. So, when Soh-Soh died, did she go there?


    Ian: (Stopped and looked at me.) No! She was nice!


    Mom: Oh. Where did she go?


    Ian: She went to the great mountain. The great mountain king made her all better.


    Mom: What does the great mountain look like?


    Ian:............Like a golden army.
     
  3. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    There’s MORE!


    When he’s playing alone or really giddy from being excited, he’ll start saying these words. I never paid much attention to them until I read things on this forum. The other day, we were tickling each other and he said I was ‘poki.’ I asked what that meant, and he said, “It’s kind of like happy.” My Korean friend didn’t know what the word meant, but I looked it up online and one definition of it is: To have a pleasant face or expression. (Who knows if it's right, though.) Last night, he was playing with his jacket, which he’d put on a hook, and was making the arms of it dance around. He was going, “Anyoung, Anyoung, Anyoung” over and over again, like he was making it talk. That means “Hello” in Korean. I know at some point, our friend tried to teach him a few words, but Ian could never consciously remember them. I’ve asked specifically. Kang did comment on how strange it was that Ian can pronounce every word perfectly the first time, which is something he’d never heard someone do. (Then again, children are generally better at pronouncing foreign words SOMETIMES.)


    The story gets a little stranger here—


    Back when he was in the bath, I asked him if Soh-Soh was her real name. I couldn’t find anything online that indicated that Soh-Soh was a name, so it made me wonder. He said, “No, it’s not her real name. I just call her that for love.”


    I started thinking. In Korea, you say the person’s last name first. Maybe it’s a play off her last name? I looked it up. Apparently, Soh is an ancient Korean surname that had something to do with the royalty of the Shilla dynasty. It said only about 90 people still have that name. They’re still living in that region.


    Ok, now. Back in 2001, my husband and I decided we’d like to go teach English in Korea. We knew NO ONE who’d ever done that. We knew NO ONE there. We just looked online and got jobs. There was one church there, but it was an hour from where we lived. That town happens to be the capitol city of the Shilla dynasty. That’s where we met Kang-Seok! We instantly felt like family. Honestly, it was a very intense connection, not just with him, but with his parents, too.


    A few years later, when we were back in TN, he had the opportunity to go to school in the USA, but was thinking maybe he wouldn’t do it. He emailed to ask if we knew where that particular college was located. Ten minutes from us! So, he decided to come here. That’s how he’s around Ian now, and they are extremely close. Kang is more like a brother than a friend. We’re completely relaxed around each other.


    Keep in mind that South Korea is the size of Kentucky. Why, in the whole world, would we randomly choose that exact spot to live? Not even that, it was a small portion of that area! Strangely, we never experienced ‘culture shock’ and never felt homesick. Still, to this day, I miss it terribly.


    Also, we thought we couldn’t have children, and before we went to Korea, we’d pretty much made up our minds we’d want to adopt a Korean child. When people ask us why we chose Korea, we tell them something about maybe wanting a kid from there—blah, blah, blah. Really, we had no idea.


    After 7 years of marriage, and no reason I hadn’t become pregnant, it finally happened. (We were neither trying nor avoiding it.) A nurse in rehab told me that if I hadn’t become pregnant, they wouldn’t have found the tumor in time to save me. The fast-growing cells made me symptomatic, and I hadn’t been before.


    Has my son come back to protect me? :-o


    Again, I’m SO sorry this was long. I just wanted all the info out there, so you guys could give me your thoughts. How should I proceed? What should I look for? Am I doing anything wrong with my questioning?


    THANKS!
     
  4. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Welcome 4mysonK,


    Thank you for sharing your son's experiences with us. I will come back tomorrow with a few thoughts and a few links on the forum you might be interested in. In the mean time - have you read the book Old Souls? There is a story --- actually a few you might find interesting. Especially with regard to how children choose their parents - or are drawn to them. Ian Stevenson's work is fantastic!


    It's late here - but I am off tomorrow and will be back in the morning with a few more thoughts and questions. Again - welcome. :D
     
  5. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hello and welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing Ian's experience with us, and there's no need to apologize for the length of it, it was very fascinating to read.


    To answer your questions, I think you should just proceed as you have been doing by letting him talk about his memories and acknowledging what he has to say. It's good that you make him feel comfortable enough to be able to talk about this to you. Maybe you could try and get him to express himself some more on paper by drawing pictures?


    As long as his memories are not disturbing him in any way, then I would say just carry on as you are by listening to him. Have you read either of Carol's books? They are very good books which I think you would be able to relate to.


    Thanks again for sharing, please keep us updated, and I hope you enjoy your time here.


    Chris - :)
     
  6. alaskanlaughter

    alaskanlaughter Senior Registered

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    Hi and welcome! :) His story was very interesting to read through. I think you are doing the right things, and I agree with Chris about seeing if he will draw some pictures.


    I was fascinated to read how you ended up in Korea and met this person that you and your husband and son have such a connection with. It's such a small world sometimes and connections can be anywhere. He also sounds like a great person and understanding of your son.


    Keep us updated! :thumbsup:
     
  7. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Thanks, everyone. I ordered the book Deborah suggested, and also Carol's books. They should be here in a couple of days. I can't wait to dig in!


    We went to the mall today, and once again, Ian picked out some things for Soh-Soh. Lately, he's been saying that she's 3, just like him. ??? He also says she had brown hair before, but now it's blonde. What do you think about this? I'm so new to everything that I'm getting dizzy from all the info. :)


    If she's 'waiting,' which is what I assumed since he says she's still in the sky, she comes to him, and also that he can talk to her, how can she be 3-years-old? In your experience, how does this all "work"? He seems 100% sure that he'll see her again. Is he just projecting the idea of age onto her since that's how he relates to himself?


    Hmm....It's all so interesting. :D
     
  8. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Hi 4mysonK.


    Welcome to the forum. I would say it is quite indisputable that your son is having past life memories. Make sure you keep careful records of all this. He will find it of great interest and very useful if his memories begin to fade as he grows up as they often do.


    You are both very lucky to have found each other. Blessings to you. There is absolutely nothing to be afraid of or upset about. This is a wonderful thing and I have no doubt you have this son to help you in your illness and he has you to help him work out what sounds like some fairly complex karma.


    There is not necessarily any conflict between a belief in reincarnation and Christianity. In fact, there is good evidence that Christ talked about reincarnation fairly often, but those bits were deleted by the early Church, as they felt that a fear of hell and a hope of heaven would be better persuaders of the people to be 'good' (and go to Church on a regular basis).

    This is a very beautiful image of heaven and 'God' (however you perceive her) seen through the eyes of a small child from his very own quite recent 'memory'.

    It seems pretty straightforward to me. :)


    I would suspect that what he is saying is that Soh-Soh has reincarnated and is now 3 years old. She is blonde now and she is 'waiting' to bump into him one day, as soul mates have a way of doing, but perhaps not until they grow up.


    He can 'talk to her' with his 'spirit'. Have you ever talked to someone in your dreams who you loved, but were far away from? Or even sometimes thought you could hear them talking to you, in your quiet moments? I see no reason why your very mature and aware son would not have such an experience just as a grown up would, even more so perhaps I would think.

    This is gorgeous and such a very eloquent image! Same door knob - one part of it all old and dark, the other part all shiny and new.


    I wonder if the 'snake suit like he's a superhero' he talks about might be some kind of armour? All shiny and segmented like scales? That was the first image that occurred to me. I wonder how I would have explained it when I was little and didn't know the right word? He also talked about being covered in red tattoos, but perhaps a bit of both was going on - snake tattoos and armour? A bit of googling on that might turn up some interesting Korean marital arts traditions or similar?


    I was a precocious child in that way too, perhaps not quite as amazing as your son, but 'up there'. I wrote about it here - towards the end, but the whole thread is a good one. I remembered a lot of things, and was very 'grown up' for my age, but I had nobody to talk to about it. Whenever I would ask a weird question, or try to talk about any of these things my parents frankly had no idea what I was trying to communicate. I didn't really understand it myself, but I quickly worked out that things went smoother if I just kept 'all that' to myself and acted normal.


    My main bit of advice is just to relax. Don't push him too hard to give you details, although I understand how fascinating and exciting it all is. Don't create any 'spookiness' about the whole business. Just be natural, as you have been doing, and go easy. If he was 'bad' as he says in his previous life, some of his memories might be very 'bad' too. So be very gentle and let him talk about it if he wants to, but let him go at his own pace. Drawing pictures is good, as Chris says, to help him get his ideas across where his vocabulary might still be letting him down at his age.


    Watch out for nightmares. He will likely have some 'bad stuff' coming up from time to time. Just give him lots of cuddles, if something like that happens. It's a good thing. Maybe talk about it with him again in the morning if he wants to, or if he remembers the dream.


    Above all, remember he is 'Ian' now. Leon is dead. This life is a brand new one full of exciting possibilities by the sound of it.


    Again welcome to the forum and thank you for your wonderful story about your amazing little boy.
     
  9. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    Hello and welcome to the forum. :)


    Thanks for sharing that wonderful story about your son, his Korean past life memories and your family's connection to the country and culture.


    I'm glad you're getting good books to read now, especially Carol's, as they will most likely answer many of your questions. :thumbsup:


    It's difficult to say what parts about Ian's talk about Soh-Soh coming back are strict facts. It's possible Soh-Soh is currently waiting to be reborn, but Ian sees her as she will be when she's 3 in her next incarnation. Many parents, for example, have dreams about their future children, seeing clearly how they will look like when they're toddlers. :) Another possibility might be that she is already 3 and living in her new body somewhere, but is meeting Ian in the astral plane, in dreams, and they both know their paths will cross later. Just a couple of suggestions.


    I think you're doing a great job being a loving and supportive parent to Ian. I'm sorry to hear you've been having some physical difficulties, and hope you will continue to get better by the day.


    Good luck with everything and please keep us posted.


    Karoliina
     
  10. Natalie

    Natalie New Member

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    Thank you for sharing
     
  11. W.A. HEART

    W.A. HEART Senior Registered

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    Hi!


    Thank you so much for sharing all this! I must say I love your son, he's terrific...

    :D :D:D


    Lovely!


    My oldest son reminds me of your Ian. He also remembers many things and is incredibly mature for his age, always has been. He is not as articulate about it as your son is, but he "just knows" things, like he knows rupee is the Indian currency. He also some times converts euros into our old portuguese escudos (he was born after they were gone) - when I ask how did you know that? he just says, uuhh I dunno. I just do!


    welcome! keep us posted!


    Love


    Welsh
     
  12. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Hi everyone! I thought I'd update you a little bit.


    A few minutes ago, he was talking about being a "ghost boy." Unfortunately, I'm unable to remember the actual conversation---not even enough to paraphrase it. Soooo sleeeepy!


    I know that I asked him if he could see me when he was Liang. (By the way, I just asked him if his name was Lian or Liang, and he said it had a "guh" on the end. Apparently, Lian is a Chinese girl's name, but Liang is a boy's name.) Anyway, he said he couldn't see me because he was a ghost boy. He also said he was invisible at the time. I asked if he was a ghost boy or a ghost man. He said boy.


    He reiterated that Soh-Soh now has blonde hair, and he's also saying that she likes pink now. For so long, he's said everything about her was red. If indeed, she is a little girl somewhere on Earth, she's probably got a lot of pink to deal with!


    Talking about Liang again, he said, "I went to school. I went to school A LOT." The answer to what he learned there was, "I learned how to speak English like Kang-Seok."


    I find that interesting that he even thinks of Kang-Seok in that way. One would think a kid would just assume he "knows" English, not that he had to learn it anywhere. Ian seems very aware of people speaking other languages.


    Thinking back on it, I know of instances where he surprised me with his understanding. More than once, we've been at a playground, and he was happy to play with children who only spoke Spanish. On one occasion, as soon as we got into the car, he commented on their speech. I tried giving him the dumbed-down version--i.e. They use other WORDS. His response was, "Mom, they didn't know how to speak English, but I do." This happened last fall when he was two!


    Also this morning, he said that he'd known Kang-Seok as a ghost. I said, "Oh, I though you'd climbed a mountain with him." He said, "Yeah, but it was a ghost mountain." Hmm.


    Somehow, Liang (which is definitely not a Korean name) has some connection with Korea---people, language, etc. Soh-Soh, however, could easily be a Korean name, as I said in my earlier post.


    I know, I'm going on and on here, but I wanted to address a couple of things. I've been reading through more of the threads, so things have come up.


    There was something said about physical traits being carried over. Throughout my life, really only from college-age on, people have asked me if I'm half Asian. (Broad and silly term, actually.) Even in Korea, some people thought I was half Korean! One day (in the USA), I was holding a new student, a Korean boy, and a parent came in and asked if he was my son. Also, someone once asked my husband if I was Mongolian. Ha! Interesting.... (I should add that people think my sister is German. Heh.)


    Also, after reading through all that Bible stuff (thanks to Chris for posting the links for me), I realized that what Ian described as a"jail/dead city" for bad people, and the "great mountain" for good people is very consistent with what many believe. There is a 'holding place,' for the souls. Are there any particular instances you guys can remember of a child speaking about this waiting area for souls? I'd like to compare. :eek: )
     
  13. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    California Girl By Heart
    Hi 4mysonK,


    Fascinating stuff, thanks for the update :D

    You may enjoy the thread Intermission Period Experiences/Spiritual Pre-existence - I believe there are a couple of cases mentioned there. :)


    Aili
     
  14. soulfreindly

    soulfreindly Senior Registered

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    Your questioning in such a concentrated manor sounds very good. From what I have read you are coming from it as a caring person interested in what your son is feeling and thinking about.


    Having you to talk to will surely be of great help to your son. Sometimes that is all we need, to have someone affirm us, so that we will be able to get on with being here with peace in our life this time.


    That is interesting about the different holding places. I am wondering about asking him if he has any feelings of his freinds being in a place where he cannot communicate with them


    I think you are doing a marvellous job to help your son share and open up to find his peace.


    Maybe if you ask about the good, normal stuff going on it that life.. like what his home is like. Play off of the positive things he refers to.. Then once he is confident that that life is not going to hurt him again, you can assure him that he does not have to live with the bad memories.


    Soulfreindly
     
  15. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Soulfriendly, I asked Ian about the dead city.


    This is what he says, summarized:


    You can't talk to people in the dead city.


    There is a "bad guy" that made him go into the dead city. He is "blonde" and has a "hairy face." He was also the one that wouldn't allow anyone to talk to each other.


    He said that people in the Great Mountain/City (interchangeable) CAN talk to each other.


    There are three "guys" that he called "Northies, like the North Pole". Those guys are "really, really nice." They helped him out of the dead city. They were named "Grass, Doctor, and Drinker." He liked Drinker best because he helped Ian find Soh-Soh.


    He said in order to get out of there he had to "do it himself" and had to "jump down."---Somehow with the help of the Northies.


    There are two choices. Mean or Nice. That's it.


    He says he chose us as his parents, and could see us, but he couldn't talk to us. I asked what we were doing when he saw us, and he said, "Just messin' around looking for me." He can give no solid answer as to why he made that choice, but only says, "You're my favorite Mom."


    There was something about Soh-Soh being his "two chances." I couldn't understand what he meant, and although I tried carefully questioning him, he never could word it in a way that made sense to me.


    If I remember any more, I'll get back to you. Thanks for prompting me to ask those questions!


    *In addition...Today, he told me that although Soh-Soh's Dad is really nice, her Mom and brother are very mean. The "now" Soh-Soh.


    I think I'm going to give it a rest for today. He started referring to Ian in the 3rd person, so I thought I'd better cut it short. He also said, "That's so nice of you!" When I turned to ask about it, he said, "Oh, I was talking to my friend." Then he pointed in front of him. He's done this before, saying there are people "over there" while pointing. Of course, he talks to himself CONSTANTLY. I joke that he might as well be a chatty little girl as much as he talks. Who knows if he was playing or not. I just knew it was time to stop.


    :thumbsup:
     
  16. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Fascinating!


    Yes, good idea to give it a bit of a rest for a bit. As long as he knows he can talk to you about it all whenever he wants, that's enough.


    If you have not seen it, I recommend taking a look at the movie with Robin Williams 'What dreams may come'. It is a nice exploration of what happens after death and rings true to me. It is not very scary or anything, and your son might even enjoy it (but you should watch it first to make sure you don't think there is anything that would upset him).


    It is a bit 'Hollywood' and over the top in some places - particularly regards to the difficult issue of suicide - which I guess is just the way of creating some dramatic tension in the film - but it is well worth a look and is a good piece of entertainment anyway.


    It explores the notion that 'heaven' is a fairly individualised experience and 'hell' is not like it was depicted in the middle ages, with devils and fire and whatnot (a very old fashioned notion in my view) but more a kind of 'nothing' place where people go to sort themselves out between lives - a bit like your son describes and similar to Soulfriendly's 'bardo' experience as well.
     
  17. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    This stuff has changed my whole perception of life. I feel like a weight has been lifted off my body in a HUGE WAY.


    Most beautifully, my relationship with Ian is different. I can't begin to explain how my view has changed. He's not just a kid anymore. He's a wise old soul. I felt so proud that I could actually ask him such an important question, and he had some answers. And to think that he chose me? Wow.
     
  18. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    You're doing very well 4mysonK. It's great to have someone else share a similar experience isn't it? Very affirming! :)


    I know this is all paradigm shifting stuff. Steady as she goes though. Don't forget that Ian is, and isn't, a 'little kid' all at the same time. It is different for everyone, but often the memories begin to fade out as kids get older - usually pretty much disappearing around age 7. This is all part of the usual, natural process and mostly it's a good thing. Most people have enough to cope with doing one life at a time!


    Ian is obviously very special and he might keep remembering. I certainly did, as did several others on the forum - but the norm is to forget as we grow up. Be sure to make a scrap book or similar of all this stuff and any pictures he may draw and so on, to keep for when he is older in case he forgets about all this, or just loses interest in it, as well he may.


    Always remember he is a little boy NOW and he has a very big and important job to do - growing up happy and healthy and strong.


    Namaste to you and your family.
     
  19. Tuwamare

    Tuwamare New Member

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    What a beautiful case this is! I really enjoyed reading about your son... thank you for posting your experiences with him.
     
  20. IrisG.

    IrisG. Senior Registered

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    Hello,


    this is an interesting story indeed! If I understand it right, Center Hill sky is in the U.S.A.? Then it seems that Ian refers to a person of Korean origin who lived in the U.S.A. for at least part of his life? Then I`d guess the this life might not too long ago in the distance part for a completely tatooed Korean living in America isn`t something I expect to have happened decades ago! By the way, is it possible that your Korean friend was actually "himself" when Ian lived before, only younger? Did you ever tell him about your son`s remarks or isn`t he someone who is open to such issues? By the way, Ian seems to be really good with words for a three-year-old, so I bet there is a lot to come up:thumbsup:!
     
  21. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Tanguerra, thanks for the great advice.


    Fortunately, I've been trying to balance this ever since he was born, so I'm used to it. He, on his own, acts much older than he is. When he was two, he went to a short preschool program twice a week. Every time I walked into the classroom, I was reminded of the differences between Ian and other children. They had pacifiers, blankies, jelly on their cheeks, and could barely communicate. Ian has never even taken a pacifier or had a security blanket/toy. He couldn't relate to those children, so during class time, he helped the teacher. When it came time to play, they sent him to the 4-year-old class so he could actually enjoy himself. He's not some kind of genius. He doesn't know all his letters or count to ten yet. As I read more and more about past lives, it makes sense. He was born with this 'mature' personality, but just like everyone else, he's got to learn the basics. Hehe.


    Yesterday, he was saying something about Santa Claus bringing toys to little kids, but he's a big kid. I told him that it was ok to be a little kid, and that he doesn't have to be a tough guy all the time. He said, "I don't?" I tried to reassure him, and I guess I need to keep doing that. :)


    Again, thanks for putting that into words, Tanguerra. I've been doing that, but maybe not as conciously as I should be.


    Iris---Yes, Center Hill is here in the USA. It's the area where I grew up. I'm not completely sure, but the overall picture I'm getting is that my son was a Chinese man named Liang. He said he knew our friend Kang-Seok before, but yesterday, he said he knew him when he was a "ghost." I don't know if he knew him on earth and in limbo, or in just one place. Of course, China and Korea have a history of both working together and working against each other. It's not unlikely that he was Chinese, but had Korean ties.


    Do you think maybe the tattoos might have been engravings on armor? He mentioned that when he fell on the mountain, his knees didn't get hurt because he had something on his leg, ankle to knee that protected him. At first, I figured he really meant tattoos, and that the "suit" was skin. But since he wouldn't know how to say something is engraved, maybe he was using tats as an example. Hmmm...


    It SEEMS that Ian was saying that he couldn't speak to people at first, then he got out of the "dead city" and could finally communicate. You guys can tell me what you think, but it appears that he had to spend some time there as a sort of 'penance,' then was helped out of there and went to find Soh-Soh. After that, he came to me. Does this make any sense?


    :D
     
  22. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    I know exactly how he feels! I remember being shocked in kindergarten about how 'childish' all the children were! I couldn't relate to them at all! I used to quite like playing dressups and painting though.

    Awww! Gorgeous.

    When he talks about 'Center Hill' he may be referring to the actual place in the USA. But, what he actually said was 'Centre Hill sky'.

    Since his 'heaven' images all seem to be mountainous (and there seem to be a lot of 'mountains' in Liang's real life too) it could be his way of explaining where Liang lived in 'heaven' or in his real life (or both) in some sort of central hilly area. He may well have heard you talk about 'Centre Hill' as where you came from, so has these two ideas combined in his mind in some way? It's hard to say.

    He may have worn armour and have had tattoos if he was a 'tough guy', which he might have been by the sound of it (he says he was 'bad'). Or there might not be any armour, just lots of red snake tattoos. Red dragons perhaps? I did some googling, but did not really turn up anything of particular interest or relevance to do with red snakes or dragon tattoos, except this:


    In Japan, tattoos are strongly associated with the yakuza, particularly full body tattoos done the traditional Japanese way (Tebori).


    and this:


    Tattooing has also been featured prominently in one of the Four Classic Novels in Chinese literature, Water Margin, [1345 AD] in which at least three of the characters ... are described as having tattoos covering nearly the whole of their bodies....


    Both from Wikipedia


    Apparently tattooing was quite common throughout Asia in the most ancient times, and was used in part to denote social rank, then it fell out of favour under Confucianism:


    Tattoos do have a history in Korea. In ancient times Korean fisherman would tattoo themselves to ward off evil when out to sea. During the Chosun Dynasty (1392-1910), thieves and criminals were branded with tattoos. Under the influence of Confucian philosophy tattoos came to be seen as scarring the body, in violation of the precept to “preserve the body, hair and skin inherited from ancestors.


    Obviously it is back 'in' again these days, but has only taken off fairly recently in Asia, as it was once seen as only a thing for gangsters, etc. (a bit like in the West).


    If he is talking about his most recent past life, we might assume it was some time last century, or it might be in the 'olden days' (he talks about a 'king' for example) or there may be more than one life mixed up here. His concept of linear time is as yet undeveloped of course - as you know from his fuzzy use of 'Saturday' and '50 hours' being a really long time and so on. (So cute. :) )


    It is not uncommon to share many lives with the same 'cast of characters'. I would say it is not impossible you have been his mother before. He said you are his 'favourite Mommy' for instance.


    Hard to say with any certainty until more detail is forthcoming. No doubt it will slowly come out as he talks about it a bit. Best not to jump to too many conclusions in the meantime. If he can draw well enough yet, you might ask him to draw you a picture of Liang (next time he raises it)?
     
  23. maulacat

    maulacat New Member

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    I've done a bit of researching on the net. If maybe he does mean armour, then these links are quite interesting:-


    This one talks about Chinese and Sino-Korean armour made up of scales, which looks very much like reptile skin:
    http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Korean_armour


    ...and this one shows Chinese "lamellar" armour, which I think looks remarkably like snake skin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamellar_armour


    However, if he was actually talking about tattoos on the skin, the only thing that I have found so far that could mean anything is this:- "The snake is one of the 12 animals which appear in the 12-year cycle of the Chinese zodiac related to the Chinese calendar. (Born in 1917, 1929, 1941, 1953, 1965, 1977, 1989, 2001)" - maybe a Chinese person would have a snake/snakes tattooed on them if they, or someone they loved, was born in the year of the snake(?) - Just an idea!


    Just had another thought on this actually! When referring to the "red snake tattoos", maybe your son is actually talking about scars? Especially if Lian was a "mean" man, as he's said, who probably got into a lot of trouble in his life. They would probably be long, thin, red marks, like a "red snake" and would be permanent, like a tattoo. But then, if your son knows what tattoos are, maybe he would know what scars are! Do you think he understands what scars are?
     
  24. IrisG.

    IrisG. Senior Registered

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    Ian`s mom: Do you think that you can motivate your son to tell a little more about the "king"? That could be very valuable in creating a historical context. I think that the "king" needn`t be a "king" as we understand the word but for a three-year-old, any powerful man or leader or even a high-ranked soldier might be a "king". From my personal point of view, I would think that he actually refers to tatooes (unusual for such a young kid to know about tatooes!). I am not sure if his referances to Soh-Soh being reborn and being three years old like he is might be fantasies to comfort him? Maybe that is what he wishes for her (and for himself), that she is as old as he is now so that they can eventually meet (and marry) when they are old enough? I guess that it is very difficult to distinguish what is fact and what is fantasy. There is no reason why a kid with past-life-memories doesn`t tell invented stories like any other child. Ian has the perfect age to remember and seems to have sufficient verbal capacities to express his memories. Enjoy this amazing time!
     
  25. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    Thanks SO much for your insight and research! Iris, maulacat, tanguerra--you all guided me to the armor issue, which became a little more. Here's an update.


    What he told me:


    I showed him that photo from maulacat, but didn't say what it was or anything about it. I just said, "Look at this." He stared at it and looked very curious, but asked what it was. At first, I didn't want to lead him in any way, so I didn't answer, but he asked again. I think I just said, "It's armor." He just gave me an 'ahh,' and went back to his play-doh.


    Since his reaction was one of recognition, I asked if he had armor when he was Liang. He said yes, but his was white. I thought he meant silver, so I asked again. No, definitely WHITE. Of course, in my little ol' brain, there's no white armor, but I looked it up, and yep. There were different colors, and I found one photo that had drawings of one kind. Chinese armor, but it didn't look like it. Actually, this version was for ceremonial purposes. That was the first thing I found, so I showed him that, too. He took one look at it and said it was a "Korean suit." After looking up what Korean armor looked like, it DID look like that. Also, the particular one I showed him looked very Korean in general, as it was loosely made. (He wouldn't 'know' this, btw.) I won't go on and on about it because there is so much more to tell.


    Here's the link: http://chinese-armour.freewebspace.com/photo2.html


    I intend on looking into this more later, but if you want to compare or research, feel free. :)


    Also, the tats he mentioned were definitely tattoos. He said he had them on his "back, belly, everywhere." Then, he started to count them. He can't really count, for whatever reason. For such a smart kid, he just doesn't get it. Anyway, he said "One...Four...Eight. Uh....He had one...five...uh...All over!"


    On that note, Ian was crazy about tattoos when he was very, very small. He called them too-toos. My sister has some and strangely enough, instead of a wedding ring, his Dad has "Wife" tattooed on his arm in CHINESE. Anyway, Ian knows what they are. He'd beg me to draw tattoos on him almost every day!


    Moving on---


    He was a "guard." I'm sure he's heard this word somewhere, but it is an unusual word for a 3-year-old. The kinds of movies he watches usually would have a prince, king, etc. People aren't mere guards. Ha! Actually, I don't think I've ever heard him say that word.


    I did ask what the king's name was, and he said what sounded like: Soh-Me. Then, strangely, he said the queen's name was Sexy. Haha! Well, it sounded like Sexy. And no, he's never said that word before (to my knowledge), nor do we go around saying it. I got distracted by that, plus he kept talking. I wish I'd broken the name down more. (I just asked him again, and he said what sounded like Quexi?)


    Anyway, I inadvertantly asked him about the 'man he guarded,' instead of saying 'king.' He said that man's name was something like "Sil-fee" and he wore a black suit. (Also mentioned the word "Skoh." I don't know how it's related.) While discussing this man, Ian got kind of angry and said that he didn't like the guy and wanted to "rip his guts out." He'd also told me that as a guard he killed lots of bad guys and "chopped them up." He also said that "Sil-Fee" was nice first, then was mean. He called him a friend a while later, which confused me. I said, "Ooh, I thought you wanted to rip his guts out." I don't know if he detected some doubt in my voice or what, but his answer to that was, "He's real, Mom."


    Ian said that man was "blonde." That didn't make sense, if you go by this story, so I asked him what color that was, just to confirm that he knew. He said "black." That made no sense. He definitely knows what black is. So I asked about blonde again, and he said it was like my sister's hair, which is almost white blonde. He also pointed at the Christmas tree lights, which are obviously almost white. I can see how he'd think my sister's hair and the lights are the same color. Do you think maybe the guy had salt-and-pepper hair, and he didn't know how to describe it? Any other ideas?
     
  26. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    He told me something surprising!


    Remember how I said he used to say "Fayo," but I didn't get much more than it being a boy? He hasn't talked about Fayo in probably 8 months or so, and even when he did, it was just a mention here or there.


    Today, he said, on his own, that his real name was "Fao," which sounds somewhere between Fayo and Fow. I didn't understand, of course, and he explained that Soh-Soh didn't know that his real name was Fao because he didn't want her to know what he did, meaning KILL PEOPLE. He said several times, "I kept it a secret" or "It was a secret." I asked him why, and he said she'd be mad at him because she was nice. He also said he slept with her in her room.


    As I think back on it, he began telling me his name was Liang during a conversation about what he CALLED Soh-Soh. He said it wasn't her real name, but he called her that for love. We were discussing what she CALLED him, not what his actual name was.


    Here's another AWESOME detail. I thought it was nothing at the time, but wrote it down anyway. I'm glad I did! He's always said she had dogs, but when I asked their names or what they looked like, he said our dogs names and said they looked them. (Beagle and mini-dachshund, not likely in China, huh.)


    Today, after I asked if she had pets, he said, "Yes, she had three dogs, Fo, Shi, and Kiki." He says they had LONG hair. Two were boys and one was a girl. *I asked just now which ones were boys, and he said "Shi and Fo."


    Now get this!


    I looked it up and the Lions of FO are those lions you always see on each side of a Chinese entrance. According to Wikipedia, they traditionally stood in front of Chinese Imperial palaces, temples, emperors' tombs, government offices, and the homes of government officials and the wealthy from the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD), until the end of the empire in 1911. They are only made in pairs, apparently, and were modeled after DOGS! And, the word for lion in Chinese is......SHI! I have yet to figure out the Kiki thing. (My heart is racing over that one!)


    *Thank goodness for the internet!*
     
  27. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    This is all very, very interesting.

    I don't think he's talking about a 'security guard' type of guard. It could be that he was in the King's 'guard'. It is usual for rulers to have their own private 'mini-army' which answers only to them. It is quite possible that the king's household guard might have worn a distinctive and unusual type of armour - white for instance - as Ian describes. It would certainly seem to make sense.


    The royal guard is usually made up of the most elite soldiers with unquestioned personal loyalty to the king. For example, think of the Coldstream Guards who guard Buckingham Palace. They have their origins in this kind of idea. They are not just for decoration though, they serve a very practical purpose of course. In the case of a coup or assassination attempt, it is the job of the king's personal guard to give their own lives if neccessary to protect the monarch. We see an echo of this in the USA's secret service whose job it is to protect the President with their very lives if neccessary.


    More sinisterly, perhaps, and this could be part of what went on, the King might use his elite soldiers to do his 'dirty work' for him - to have inconvenient people killed for instance.

    It could be that the white haired man was Liang's 'boss' - either militarily or politically. He may have been a prince (Skoh?) or some other member of the King's family who he was assigned to protect and/or serve and/or carry out dirty work for. It could well be that they were 'friends' before things went sour for whatever reason.
     
  28. 4mysonK

    4mysonK 4mysonK

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    ^


    Thanks, Tanguerra!


    I meant, in Disney movies and such, it's usually about the king, not just a guard of his, so I doubt he was taking it from any movie.


    Thanks for elaborating a bit about the personal guards for royalty. You made some points that I hadn't thought of yet--- The 'dirty work' part, especially. If I look at it that way, I can see why he wouldn't want Soh-Soh to know about it. Doing your regular job as a solider is one thing, but all that extra stuff was probably way off the charts of 'mean'. Maybe he thought it was a deal-breaker, so he was careful not to reveal anything to her.


    Do you think he might NEED to tell me all of this stuff to rid himself of the guilt? He literally gets angry when talking about some of this stuff, as if he's mad about the whole situation of Fao/Liang.


    Also, in the first old-life comment he made to me, he said that the 'king' had tried to do something to Soh-Soh, and that he'd gone to kill the guy, but he killed Fao/Liang first. Sad. I can see how that would make for some upsetting memories!
     
  29. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, quite possibly and also, if it involved some sort of 'palace intrigue', political skullduggery and so on, I imagine it would have been secret and the fewer people who knew about it the better?

    I think at this point you can discount the hypothesis that any of this is coming from any Disney movies! :)


    As he has said 'This is real.' He is not making this up. These are memories. I have a lot of trouble talking to 'normal' people about my experiences, because they assume it is some kind of delusion. Whenever I would come out with some outlandish thing as a kid my mother would say 'What a vivid imagination you have!'. She meant it as a compliment, but I gave up in the end.

    Imagine Ian was a grown up and had been away on a very long and exciting trip to ancient Korea and had just come back after being away for many years. He would want to tell you all about it wouldn't he? Good things had happened, bad things had happened, whatever, he would want to tell you all about it. He would no doubt get very worked up telling you about the really dramatic bits, of course.


    It's just like that.
     
  30. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    This is all very interesting stuff. As to the dogs, it was fairly usual for the royal families to keep these "dogs that looked like lions" in China - Shi Tzus ("Lion Dogs") which have lovely long hair. It was very much the fashion in fact. There were deliberately bred to look like the lion statues. Their names might have been a playful reference to that. This might explain Kiki's name:


    "The Shih Tzu therefore also has the nickname "Tibetan temple dog". It is also often known as the "Xi Shi quan" (西施犬), based on the name of Xi Shi, regarded as the most beautiful woman of ancient China"


    That would certainly seem to make sense if there was a 'pair' of males and Kiki was the female, wouldn't it?


    If not Shih Tzu, then possibly Pekingese, which were also kept by Chinese royalty and had long hair and were sometimes called 'Foo' dogs and were supposed to look like 'lions'. Maybe you could ask him which one looks the most like Soh-Soh's dogs?


    China had a great deal of cultural influence in Korea at various times, and Korea paid tribute to China on and off. I am sure there would have been a lot of back and forth between the two nations and probably intermarriage by the royal families to cement the alliances. Particularly after 1392 there was a close connection:


    "In 1392 a Korean general, Yi, Song-gye, was sent to China to campaign against the Ming rulers. Instead, he allied himself with the Chinese, returned to overthrow the Korean king, and setup his own dynasty."


    This is a good, brief article about the period. It was very tumultuous at various times with battles between the princes and so on, so that all seems to fit.


    There is a picture of the imperial palace at Seoul which was built around this time. Ian said Soh-Soh's house was all red and gold. I wonder if it looked anything like this?


    The capital moved from Gaegyeong to Seoul under this dynasty. What part of Korea did you say you felt 'drawn to'? This could narrow down the century perhaps if it was before or after the capital was moved.
     

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