Is consciousness produced by the brain?

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Nightrain, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Along the road to Reincarnation, it is first essential to establish whether consciousness is produced by the brain, or whether consciousness can exist outside the brain.

    Dr. Bruce Greyson, Professor, Department of Psychiatry & Neurobehavioral Sciences, University of Virginia has this to say:

    What evidence are you aware of that supports consciousness beyond the brain? What does the brain produce?
     
  2. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I've got nothing concrete, but it has always seemed to me that the brain is like the hard drive and the soul/ego/consciousness is like the software...while free will provides the input of data. Simplistic, but it works for me.
     
  3. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I think the work of Karl Pribram and Denis Gabor regarding holographic memories gives us reason to pause and reflect. I think that reincarnation is not a system - but a process that is illuminated and created by consciousness, thereby making each person's experience unique.


    The books The Holographic Universe, or The Isaiah Effect, or The Biology of Belief, and or Gregg Braden's newest The Spontaneous Healing of Belief (Shattering the Paradigm of False Limits) - all help to better understand what I mean.


    The work of Bruce Lipton P.h.D. and the work of William James, a psychologist who has studied the subconscious and conscious mind reveal more and more about the nature of consciousness and how we create our realities. We are just beginning to learn - what IS possible.


    I personally cannot think of a more perfect system than reincarnation. )*(
     
  4. Sunniva

    Sunniva Administrator Emeritus

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    Thank you for this, Deborah. That really makes sense to me.
     
  5. Kristopher

    Kristopher Senior Registered

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    I don't think there is any solid evidence. In fact, anything at all about how the human brain works in basically all theories. Its hard to come to conclusions when your exploring the power and capabilities of the most advanced computer known to man. Skeptics, along with ourselves, want proof of life after death and I don't think, while we are alive on this planet, we will ever get that answer.


    If we can't understand the brain for its most common functions then I don't think we have the right to use it to try and prove/disprove where consciousness comes from. Whatever source created us is obviously going to be much more intelligent than any human being could be, therefore making the questions we have basically impossible to answer. If consciousness has been created by pure chance and not by a creator, then I think that is even more incredible.
     
  6. AKP

    AKP New Member

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    I think, only when we can make our soul leave the body and re-enter at will, we will be able to say for sure that consciousness and thoughts exist outside brain. :)


    AKP.
     
  7. Jody

    Jody Senior Registered

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    Some yogis and psychics claim they *can* have their astral body leave the physical body at will, AKA "out of body experiences" (OBE's). My own personal opinion is that the brain is more like a "dumb terminal" (where the main hard drive is actually located outside the terminal, like a file server ... that would be called the "Akashic records" in New Age Speak. The main metaphor I use for myself is that the brain is more like a "tuner" that grounds the thinker into this plain of reality (like a TV set wired to receive and interpret only a limited set of frequencies). There's a lot of "evidence" that this is so, from anecdotal accounts of OBE's, Near Death Experiences (NDE's), stories of reincarnation that cross cultural barriers of space and time. But personally, I think our earthly plane of existence is part of a test and there's a reason we haven't been able to "conclusively and scientifically" prove that consciousness is independent of our physical body, because that would ruin the test. But I also think we are getting close to a time of Relevation. That's my personal take ... :angel:
     
  8. watchurself

    watchurself New Member

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    consciousness = Spiritual IMO


    IMHO - i think the brain receives consciousness into the physical body


    i believe consciousness is not identifiable, definable, etc etc


    i believe consciousness is the life force - the mystery, our G-D connection


    just my 2 cents -no proof - just a theory


    thanks
     
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  9. dking777

    dking777 Senior Registered

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    I found this procedure remarkable and along the lines of what function the brain serves.

    DK
     
  10. sensory

    sensory New Member

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    sensory


    Just like the dying brain surgeon said right before he died, 'i was just a radio repairman"
     
  11. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Quantum Physicist Amit Goswami


    (I just posted a link to his documentary in a separate post) believes, based on evidence from physics, that consciousness came first, and that consciousness creates matter, not the other way around.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit_Goswami
     
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  12. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I just saw a documentary on 20/20, or maybe Dateline about a 27 year old man who had 7 massive strokes leaving him in a coma. He was in a coma for months. His fiance was told he would never recover.


    I don't remember the details but she did research and gave him Ambien - YES the sleeping pill. He comes out of his coma for 3 - 4 hours..telling her and the doctors he can hear them..he is in there and no he is not brain dead. He responds to questions can do math - etc. After a few hours the Ambien wears off and he is back into a coma.


    So -consciousness in the brain? It's an odd example but I thought I would share. It's evident from his experience that still continues to this day - he is not in his brain.
     
  13. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Here is a story about Sam Goddard, 23, of Brisbane, Australia, who suffered a series of storkes after palying football in February of 2010. His fiance gave him Ambien which brought him out of his stroke. I don't know if it is the same story, but there are actually several cases in which Ambien brought people out of coma for a period of time until the drug wore off.


    There are so many cases of people coming out of comas and remembering exact conversations which doctors continue to shrug off as mere anomalies of the brain. It boggles one's mind to realize how deeply ingrained is the false belief that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain, when there is so much evidence and even logic to explain otherwise.


    Sensory's reference to the neurosurgeon who realized he was just a radio repairman could have been about Dr. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon who had a near death experience and realized that his consciousness was not a product of his brain, and that his brain mainly functioned as a kind of radio receiver.
     
  14. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Three year old Chase Britton of Buffalo, New York was born without a Cerebellum and even his pons, the part of the brain stem that controls basic functions, such as sleeping and breathing. Yet, Chase is able to walk up and down the hall, ride a bike, hold a pencil or a pen to work on projects, and use scissors. Chase also loves to play on his Ipad. According to Doctors these are all things that he's not supposed to be able to do. Although some neurologists are willing to explain away such anomalies as "plasticity", that is just another way of saying that they aren't as absolutely sure about the functions of the brain as they once thought.


    Of course, this and other similar cases don't prove that consciousness can exist outside the physical brain, but it helps to question the rigid and unrelenting assertion by neurologists that consciousness is merely an epiphenomenon of the brain.
     
  15. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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  16. pixarfan

    pixarfan Member

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    I was getting into a debate with a few atheists about this. (I used to be one briefly, but can't call myself one any more knowing what I know now about NDEs, OBEs, and verified reincarnation cases). I thought that if I ever had an NDE, I'd attempt to prove it. I believe consciousness can exist outside of the brain and can, in fact, be tested (and so I can't call myself an agnostic anymore, either).


    I was trying to think of an appropriate metaphor.


    I think of individual "consciousness" (you can call it a "soul," and I would normally, but "soul" tends to be a loaded word) as a scoop of pure water (we're all scooped from the same lake ;) ) poured into the "ice cube tray" of the brain, where it's "frozen" and isolated from the rest of the water from whence it came. Everyone is their own "ice cube," now separate from everyone else, or so it would seem. (This kind of goes with what happens in Michael Newton's books as the soul merges with the body).


    This does not discount neurology, biology, or what we've learned of the brain so far, as the "ice cube tray" can still be damaged. But in certain circumstances- NDEs, OBEs, and death- the "ice cube" "melts" out of the "tray" and is "free-flowing water" again. Its "true nature" is revealed. It can be "poured" back into the same body (after NDE) or a different one (reincarnation).
     
  17. JLamar

    JLamar New Member

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    I know of one unambiguous case, that of Pam Reynolds, who while undergoing surgery for an aneurysm a few years back, had to be put in such a deep drug-induced coma that she was effectively brain-dead; it was sort of like shutting down the brain so that they could work on it with the power off.


    The EEG showed no activity whatsoever, but Pam, far from waking up with no memory of the operation, was able to describe the surgeons' tools, the operating theater, and even banter between the surgeons in spite of this.


    This, scientifically, leads to a true unknown. We know that:


    A. Because of what she saw, some mechanism allowed her to view the operating theater.


    B. She could not have done so through the normal channels.


    I've come across a few skeptics who insisted that if she heard anything, the brain had to have been active, but this leads to only two very unlikely possibilities:


    A. The EEG machine, in a world class operating theater, that had functioned just fine before and after Pam was put in a coma, experienced an unknown fault for the exact duration of time she was comatose, or;


    B. There was brain activity, it was of a type unknown and undetectable by today's instruments.


    Either way, Pam's case leads to a scientific quandary, because given the circumstances, the unknown can only be answered with another unknown, whether one takes the skeptic's side or the believer's side.


    My personal opinion? Consciousness is no more produced by the brain than wires produce electricity.
     
  18. Jody

    Jody Senior Registered

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    re: Chase Britton


    Just a heads up ... Chase, the boy born without a cerebellum, is in the news again. Seems his family got into an accident and could use some financial help this Christmas season.
     
  19. Prince Burridge

    Prince Burridge New Member

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    According to quantum physics, consciousness IS the creator!
     
  20. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    An interesting old thread, do any newer members have any thoughts on this?
     

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