Is consciousness produced by the brain?

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Nightrain, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I understand all that but, jelly fish have nerve bundles, not brains. Even a brain is nothing more than a collection of cells that transmit electrical impulses. Using chemically created electrical currents transferred to other cells that are all exactly alike. There is an experimental line of robots made by Mike Tilden. The "brain" is based on a neural network, there's no computer. They are solar powered and he claims they actually seek light to keep charged up. The idea is, if you created an artificial brain, attached cameras for eyes, microphones for ears and etc, could it learn? Could it walk, talk, think, respond, obey and all that?
     
  2. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Some of those questions depend very much on how we define terms such as "think", "learn" and so on. At one time it was considered that a computer capable of passing the rather antiquated 'Turing Test ' would be thinking. In fact some rather basic computer algorithm has already, in somewhat limited circumstances, successfully passed that Turing test. But no-one really believes the machine was thinking. It was simply an exercise in mimicry, in creating a surface appearance.

    The nature of consciousness itself is harder to define. Perhaps it is related to the ideas of being aware of being aware, and of being able to experience. These things don't seem to be derivable from anything else, but could be considered fundamental in their own right.
     
  3. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    An ocean of text? It was just a very tiny wave. And most of it was merely quoting Plato, someone who should be waded through, whether it's through old or new eyes. But then, earlier, you had giving me the impression that you had waded through Plato's work with much younger eyes.
    I agree that we both came from different locations, whether happening or not. And I have to also agree that we are both here, since we are. However, I believe you have gotten the wrong impression about a competition between us, I take it as a discussion. But to be fair, I have to say that I was competing for your attention.
    I don't know if I can follow you there, as my own old eyes fail to see where you have been in those last months of yours. Besides, you will have to point out which thread your thoughts are heading to.
    That's a great song from Jim Croce. Time in a bottle. However, since you believed there was some sort of competition between us, which there is not, would not the same artist have been used more to the point with this one? Life and Time is at the center of my ocean of text, as is also prevalent in your reply.

    I'm enjoying whatever is going on between us, as it's always a joy for me to exchange/share matters of reincarnation, or musical perspectives. Truth does matter!

     
  4. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    Are we aware that this argument is a matter of argument for others as well? Would it not suit the thread better if anyone putting forth thoughts or questions on the argument get familiar with the more conscious minds in the field? It is also a question where subjectivity and objectivity comes into play. I don't take sides with either of these two in the discussion, and by posting the link I'm just pointing out that there are open discussions that either side fails to win over the other. And as I have tried to point out in my posts, I don't believe the matter will ever be settled, unless the skeptics like Sam Harris are shown overwhelming scientific evidence of reincarnation. Still, I suppose that we can still amuse ourselves here with our own opinions, should any of us put forth any novel argument. I'm assuming that many here are privy to much of the similar material available on the internet, as the link below is just one of many.

     
  5. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    Here is another link for a discussion on the nature of reality, and subjective and objective circumstances on Ultimate Reality.

     
  6. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    The following link is one where a compromise if sought by two who are of opinions which are in 180 degrees opposition, and are seeking further understanding of what consciousness is to each of them. Further, they are attempting to find just where consciousness is, or from whence it comes from, as it relates to what is consciousness? In the discussion, the two indicate just how many years they have been going at it, and both have failed to bring the other to their opinion. And it's apparent that there is not an agreed upon scale of truth that would be, without bias, used to measure their two opposing opinions, as to which of the two is "Closer To Truth."



    https://www.closertotruth.com/topics/consciousness
     
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  7. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    Polaris the competition I was talking about was the methods/experiences that brought ALL of us here to this forum.

    About the difference between the ocean and a wave - "And have we not a right to say in his defense, that the true lover of knowledge is always striving after being--- that is his nature..." No need for the remaining 100 words that follow that in the same sentence!

     
  8. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    An interesting video that gets more likes than I wish.
     
  9. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    Do you think this guy knows or is he saying what he truly believes? Most psychics rely on the business of people who are at least mildly aware.
     
  10. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    He obviously has not had a "knowing" experience that most of us have. He just represents the "un-awakened" people that are in the majority IMO.
    I posted it to show how fragile our own beliefs are, EVEN on this forum.
     
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  11. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I feel the need to explain my purpose in including that anti-reincarnation video.

    With due respect to Occam and his single sharp-bladed razor, I’ll take the electric-razor approach that is a bit broader.

    What this man is explaining, IMHO, is the same process used by almost all salespeople and politicians, let me explain.

    They take a bit of obvious truth and build upon that as the foundation of what follows, this is the first “sleight-of-hand”. Then they repeat it until it becomes “common knowledge” and bullying your senses setting your conscious and subconscious minds in opposition with each other.

    This process has a name, it is a common name, Hypnosis. So, how did it feel to be hypnotized by that video? Notice how similar this is to a stage-hypnotist that dis-respects his subjects by having them flap their “chicken-wings”. I think that even he doesn’t recognize what he is doing. It is only obvious, I suppose, to people familiar with hypnosis. Do not allow this to keep you from seeking hypnotherapy, just be aware that you need one that is worthy of your trust.

    His second video exposes his true “proofs”, or second sleight-of-hand, of what he is doing. He is proving that hypnotism works and that with enough dis-belief a person can cast enough doubt to influence you into doubting the abilities that you have that he or she doesn’t have.

    I spoke of this in another thread years ago where a friend of mine made me unable to dowse when I was trying to show him how to do it, his dis-belief was stronger than my ability to relax and perform as normal. This is what those among us have to overcome to Prove that reincarnation is true, and why I see it as being impossible!

    Is that what people call EVIL?

    There is a very good videos (46 minutes long) about this that you CAN watch, but it will make you harder to be hypnotized in the future so be careful.
     
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  12. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    That's a very interesting point. He is using hypnosis in his attempt to convince people hypnosis is not real. Hypnosis is also used in the conditioning of children and in the repeated reading of religious writings. The video is very interesting. I'd like your take on what's going on in this man's presentation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  13. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I could not get out of bed fast enough this morning to post after realizing that most people were not in a position to see through his smoke-screen. I hope that you also take note of this in the talking-head BS that is reported in the various media, political PACs, and universities.
     
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  14. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm at a point in my life where some things are fitting together without a force-fit, and this thread about consciousness is relevent. I also found an analogy that fits my belief better than ones I have heard before.

    The analogy is seeing a mountain as representing God, boulders as Souls, chips off of the boulder as Aspects/Personalities, and then sand, and dust being still more Aspects. Then after being mixed together and experiencing much pressure, we rejoin God by becoming stone again.

    I've changed my mind about the hypnosis videos, I think they are important enough that everyone should be aware of how easy it is to be hypnotized, especially at election times if you have a strong belief either way.

    I'll point to a video showing hypnosis being taught to some CEOs to help you understand hypnosis is so common that you are actually hypnotized about 70% of each day. An example is when driving and not remembering haven gone through a particular intersection.

    I've watched about six of this man's video's, he does about the same thing in each one. This one has a Ken as the "subject", so I thought it would be appropiate.

     
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  15. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I got so focussed on the video that forgot about Conscienceness; an example in itself.

    In the annalogy that I gave, the Soul and Aspect being chipped off would be aware, the other chips, not as much. It is more like a perspective.

    Think of a wheel on a car or bike. From the vehicle's perspective, the wheel is going around in a continuous RPM. From the roadway's perspective, the wheel is stopped at the point of contact and going twice as fast at a point above the center/axle.
     
  16. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I like the wheel analogy. I agree it's very important to understand hypnosis. I also believe people spend much of their time under the influence of more powerful minds without being aware of it. Watching the way society is changing, the way people are beginning to behave and think is an alarming example.
    In the hypnosis videos I wonder if the guy doing the exhibit has help or not.
     
  17. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    As he demonstrated how to relax and hypnotize themselves. The experience of holding on to to things without realizing it, or the Red Bird thing I spoke of somewhere else, where the harder you try to do something, or not to do something, the harder it gets.

    What I personally wanted to show was how easily we get hypnotized and that it can be done by anyone AND HOW TO IDENTIFY IT WHEN IT IS HAPPENING TO YOU.

    I was thinking last night about the "forces" that allow downers to perform. They are the same as those that influence water to spiral down a sink-drain either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending which latitude we see it.
     
  18. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Regarding water spiralling clockwise or anticlockwise, that is known as the Coriolis Effect. It comes down to conservation of momentum - essentially as described by Newton's laws of motion.

    At smaller scales, for example water exiting a bathtub, it has been said that these forces are relatively tiny and easily overwhelmed by other factors, such as the shape of the plug-hole for example.

    I'm not sure I get the connection with dowsing though. (I guess that was "dowsers", rather than "downers".)
     
  19. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, trying to type on my phone while my wife is expressing emotions about my eggs getting cold does lead to badly spelled words and obserd wording.

    The tie that I wanted to make was that dowsers can balance their muscle tensions, gravitational effects on bent wires, the energy of bent tree-branches, etc. to the point that such subtle forces un-balence them. Quite easy to learn to do, the problem being that if put to the TEST causes the dowser to get tense and unable to perform. That is what happened in the video that provided the "Truth" the neigh-sayer used in his video of the person being unable to perform for him in my opinion.
     
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  20. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    I hope the guy who was taught to count backwards to hypnotise himself later was told to sit down before he did it.l And told how to come out of it!
     

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