Hi Treehugger,
I understand your point about the hurricane. Recently, I was taking a questionnaire that asked what the difference was in belief and truth. I basically said, truth is what actually is. Belief is merely what you think or percieve to be real, whether or not it is real. And belief does not change truth. I gave some example I can't recall. I agree that believing something is real, doesn't, in general cause it to be real. If I believe you don't exist, it doesn't mean that you don't. You won't dissapear from existance.
Some people believe that thought can affect outcome to some degree. I believe it's possible for desire & will to affect outcomes to a minimal degree through some sort of telepathy, telekenesis, or other psychic ability (depending on the situation a diff. skill might be needed), but I think we are limited in what we can affect. If this is possible at all- & I'm open to the possibility, but not convinced of it- then I don't think everything can be affected. You can't will the past to be diff., only the future, & even then you're limited in what you can change & to what degree it can be changed. They did an experiment on this once & it seemed what people desired affected the outcome of things, pushing them beyond chance results towards whichever outcome the person desired. However, I don't think we could affect all things- I don't think we have the power to stop storms or regrow limbs just by willing it. I am talking about will & desire affecting some things on a very small level, but usually, not enough to get you what you want. So in general, I agree with you. Belief is not truth.
However, I think the afterlife could be different. You say this is illogical, but perhaps you aren't thinking of it in the same way as these other people. I want to be clear that I'm not trying to argue this point with anyone. I don't know what happens when we die, but I think about it alot. I have no desire to change your belief system. I'm simply sharing an alternate belief. It seems to me that you haven't asked your friends how they can believe this is true- or if you did, they apparently didn't give you an answer that made any sense to you- so I thought I would share with you, how I believe this could be a possibility.
I personally do not believe that the afterlife is necessarily so malleable. I think it is possible that there is only one thing that happens to you when you die- or perhaps a couple diff. possibilities- and that's it. I believe it is possible we all die, & cease to exist & that no desire will make it untrue. I believe it's possible that my family is right & there is a hell & a heaven and you go to one or the other, & no amount of wishing will change it. I believe there may be reincarnation, which we might or might not have a choice in, etc. I could go on. Point is, I don't think wishing it to be diff. will necessarily make it so. So I can definitely see how you could be totally right on this one. BUT I do think there is a way in which it could be true.
We live in a physical world now. At night, I dream. I "walk" in a world that is made by something physical (my brain), but it isn't a physical world. Thought & belief are reality in dreams. When people have out of body experiences, some float around on a physical sort of plane, but some claim to go to the "astral" realm, which is like a dream realm, where they can build thoughtforms. They create. Also, whether on the physical or astral, when having an OBE, some claim that your emotions draw to you the type of entity that corresponds to it- negative feelings draw out the astral nasties & positive feelings draw to you, positive entities. They also say you can float around or you can will yourself somewhere else. Teleporting, basically. Our minds make worlds, even if they aren't physical worlds. Some people believe that during OBE's your spirit actually leaves your body, also. If that is true, they are creating things outside themselves. If not, they are still creating within themselves. Someone could argue that when you die, and no longer have flesh (well, some think we get new flesh, but that's another story) that we can create worlds with our minds.
Some people believe the physical world is all an illusion. At least some Buddhists believe this world is an illusion (do they all? I'm unsure). I don't think it is any more far fetched to say, if one could create a fake world this real through belief, that you could create an afterlife through belief. I don't think this world is an illusion at all and cannot swallow that idea in the slightest, but that's just me.
As for athiests not existing, I don't know if their soul would really dissapear, even if we could create what we believed for the most part. But maybe they would shut down conscious thought and feeling as though in a deep, deep sleep or deep, deep coma?
I don't think we can make real beings by thought. To me, a thoughtform is not the same as a real soul. So I don't think anyone could create a god through belief. However, it is my personal belief that God is a spiritual being who can take whatever form God pleases. To me, spirit can present itself however it likes- especially the spirit of God. If God wanted, I think God could look like anything. If you believe in God, why is it so far fetched to believe God could show Itself to the deceased in whatever way they are most comfortable with? As Jody pointed out, during NDE's- if they are real spiritual experiences and not just hallucinations (I don't know what I believe about that)- people tend to see whatever being they believe they will see.
I like the idea of Heaven that was layed out in "Whatever Dreams May Come". You should watch it. It does play somewhat on the theme that what you believe creates what you get, yet it doesn't deny the reality of other things. It doesn't mean what you don't believe in doesn't exist....it's more of....creating new things....what you desire....where you want Heaven to be. And there is also the idea that belief and emotion can hold you prisoner, presented in the movie's idea of hell.
