JWs and Reincarnation

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by Shiftkitty, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Shiftkitty

    Shiftkitty Registered User

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    Some friends of our are Jehovah's Witnesses. To start off, I'm not here to slam anybody's faith. They have an interesting and refreshingly open view of Christianity. To hear them talk about their views is more like sharing and less like preaching. We engaged in Bible study because we (my husband and I) were interested in hearing things from the point of view of this much-maligned sect.

    The concept they have of the Afterlife and reincarnation is, as far as I know, unique. There is no promise of any paradise awaiting the deceased up in the clouds or in some mystical realm. There is no reincarnation. To sum it up, when you die you cease to exist until Jehovah remakes Earth into the Paradise He intended it to be (After Judgment Day, when the wicked will permanently cease to exist, the rest of us get to live forever here on a Paradise Earth, free of pain, want, and other negative things).

    We went around and around on this. I explained my belief in reincarnation and why I have that belief. They pointed out that the Bible doesn't mention an afterlife. We're not promised a glorious realm in the clouds with Jehovah. Since people like Lazarus didn't come back from the dead talking about Heaven, then it was obvious, by JW teaching, that it didn't exist for the dead. I felt obliged to point out (jokingly) that the Bible also never mentions Jesus passing gas or going to the bathroom, but we can assume he did so.

    Ultimately the description of life was like a candle. When it's lit, the flame is the spirit. When you snuff the flame, the fire, they said, doesn't go someplace else until a new candle is available. It doesn't linger on. It simply ceases to exist.

    So where does Jehovah get all those righteous people from who are going to live on Paradise Earth? According to the JWs, they'll be taken from Jehovah's perfect memory.

    Aha! I said. Then something does live on beyond death!

    Of course, their question was about why do we forget our past lives. I said that we don't, we just have a very hard time remembering. You know that 3 years, 8 months, and seven days ago you had lunch, but can you remember what you had for lunch? How much harder is it to remember what you did for a living 700 years ago when you've had the trauma of a few deaths between now and then? Tell the story of your current life and see how many significant details you forget even without the trauma of death, I challenged.

    As I said, we're good friends and I will miss them. (They retired to Mexico a week or so ago.) But it was interesting while they were here to exchange ideas on heavy topics. Since so many people turn JWs away without even listening, I thought I'd share what I learned when we opened the door to them.
     
  2. Aelfgyva

    Aelfgyva Senior Member Staff Member

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    And


    Thank you for sharing Shiftkitty...


    my mother was a Mormon, I have a lot of experience with funny looks from some people when they hear that...I believe that all paths lead to The One...to The Truth! Your story is interesting...and their story also!


    P.S...tried to edit the title...was not possible. What I wanted to write was...


    And The Path I Chose...
     
  3. Shiftkitty

    Shiftkitty Registered User

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    If I may ask, what is the Mormon view on the afterlife and reincarnation? (I understand if you choose not to answer.)


    I asked a Rabbi about the Bible and the afterlife. I like what he said: "It's a book for the living, not the dead. God wants us to be kind and do good not for a reward of some kind but because it's the right thing to do, reward or not."


    He also had a cool answer (in my opinion) about life and the candle flame. "Who are we to say God doesn't re-light candles now and then if the world still needs their light?"
     
  4. PastPilot

    PastPilot PastPilot

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    As it was stated in the book Conversations with God (vol 1), all religions have good points and truths and are a valid path to the source.
     
  5. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    PastPilot,


    Saying that all religions lead to God doesn't really say much. Some seem to go about it in a very round-about way (to be gracious about it). Some seem a good deal more direct. Some may even lead to God by negative impact (just as some actions in this world do)--i.e., if you bang your head against the wall enough times with wrong actions (religion) you'll eventually change directions to one that works. So, I'd be cautious about the all religions lead to God stuff. Not all are equal, and some may just plain be wrong.


    I could easily mention some current examples in world events, but since we're discouraged from getting too direct on religious matters, I'll defer comment, and not mention anyone (or religion) by name.


    S&S
     
  6. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Senior Registered

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    Hmm. I've understood that to mean that everyone sees the mysteries and many consciously or unconsciously interact with the unseen because it's there whether we are spiritual or not. Where there is a religion it will integrate observations of the spiritual realm within whatever cultural constraints or constructs exist (or are developed). No religion is excepted from this integration of observation, and often the intent of the message is originally to communicate and teach these experiences to a wider audience.


    Some from every religion manage to be life-long students themselves, and to apply what they learn in a healing way instead of getting caught up in the "box" and refusing to look outside its boundaries. :thumbsup:


    For a more pessimistic view, the "Greater Consciousness" gets co-opted by anyone with a desire to control people. They're all observing similar phenomena and interpreting it however seems most useful to them. saywhat
     
  7. Aelfgyva

    Aelfgyva Senior Member Staff Member

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    Mormon???...


    Hi Shiftkitty,


    My mother never forced her religion on any of us...but as a young child I did attend "Primary" once a week...a kind of after school bible study. This is what I remember;


    The Mormons use the Christian Bible, I had a King James version, and another holy book called "The Pearls of Great Price?" If anyone here is Mormon, please forgive me if my childhood memory is a bit foggy! (Sometimes I can remember a past life better than this one! :/ ) Anyway, their idea of afterlife was, if I remember correctly, very similar to that of the Christians. Baptism happens at the age of 10...also in white, also completely under water. This was the reason I left the religion...being dunked fully under water scared me to death!!! ( in my most recent past life I drowned in a river!!)


    After leaving...I never returned...to any organized religion!
     
  8. dking777

    dking777 Senior Registered

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    In 1998, my Grandmother passed away and some religious 'minds' visited my Grandparents house in the aftermath. Memories of my NDE's were returning and I had gotten to speak to my Grandmother about my 1988 NDE before she passed. After she passed - I got a phone call from her. (After-death communication.)


    I wasn't raised with a religious mindset and had been talking on the Internet - but - was curious what the 'religious' mindset was about when it came to my own 'direct testimony' of having been there, done that. I mentioned the fact that they seem to be 'on a program' and were trying to induct me into their program. They agreed to this. I eventually looked for an opening and brought up my experience in 1988 where I died and came back to talk about it. You should have seen the look on their eyes. They brought up the Lazaraus thing - and said something about 'sleep' when we die - not to wake up until resurrection day. We had a friendly conversation about our difference of opinion.


    After they left - I went and laid down for a nap - and during my sleep - I was attacked by 'dark entities.' This hadn't happened to me in many years and I called out for 'protection.' The one I called "Mom" (or what some may call the Holy Spirit) came to me and these 'dark entities' took off running. I asked what had happened and why now. I was told that the couple that had just left - stood out the door of my grandparents house and said a prayer. I was told - it was aimed at the 'Father' but had missed the 'mark' and fallen short of the 'heart of the Father' - and the enemies of the Father had picked it up and tried to see it through. I had spoken the truth - and the truth was opposed to their belief.


    That woke me up to the dangerous minds that walk in the darkness of time and shouting out how much they supposedly serve truth and the 'Divine Creator.' They may be aimed at the Father - but I came to realize that many 'fall short' and instead of serving truth - in their state of blindness serve those opposed to truth.


    I feel more comfortable talking to an atheist about my experiences than I do a fundamentalist.


    I have heard many NDE'er's say that all paths led to God - eventually, but along the way - I do feel some take some detours that led them and their mental minds into a darkness. If that is where they feel comfortable - fine - just as long as they don't try and drag me into that darkness with them.


    Sincerely,


    DKing
     
  9. PastPilot

    PastPilot PastPilot

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    It didn't mean that all religions lead to God, it actually means learning all religions, or reincarnating into all religions throughout all your life paths on earth, is a valid path to the source (God). Experiencing the pitfalls of all religions is as important as learning what is good about all religions. It is a valid path. Not all religions are equal by any means and some may be completely wrong, but it doesn't make them any less valid as a learning or experiencing mechanism.


    I have read of souls who have reincarnated all of their lives on earth into as many different religions as possible. In some lives they were Buddhist monks, others they were Catholic priests, another time a Muslim cleric, Hindu Holymen, Mayan Priests, a Shaman in the jungles of the Amazon, etc. The list was endless. This individual was an Anglican priest in this life, but while being hypnotically regressed it was discovered that he had been an Anglican priest in two other incarnations and had been a priest or monk in virtually all the religions there are on the planet. When asked why he would choose religion as a path to God, he just stated that this is his chosen path. His overall theme is to explore all religions and all of their facets. Strangely, he was the second person that the hypnotic regressionist had come across in his career who was doing this. There are many paths to God.


    “I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” ? Thomas A. Edison
     
  10. josedasjesus

    josedasjesus New Member

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    as a spiritist i do think that the amenesia have a reason and it is very helpfull, how could i bear the weight of remembering i was hitler ? or how could i really learn not to kill people if i didnt have to figure it out by myself and had everyone telling me i was a bad person and i must change? the amenesia gives me the change of start over and really do things (good or bad) with some sort of free will
     

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