Karma is not Punishment

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Deborah, May 19, 2006.

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Karma is not Punishment

  1. Do you think you have to experience everything to grow?

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. Do you think your consciousness has a choice?

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. Do you think evil is a must in order to learn love?

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Do you think you are suffering because you were once a bad person?

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  5. Do you think everything is pre-planned?

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I thought Ailish made an excellent point in another thread about Karma. I think this is an extended issue so I started a new thread. I hope this is OK with you Ailish. :) I would be interested in others thoughts.

    Some people have suggested that we must experience everything, that all souls have at one time been good and evil, with all the wide ranges of emotions and thoughts that go along with these two scenarios.

    I do not believe that anyone is perfect - or that we do not make mistakes. However, I have never seen myself killing people, being the murderer, the evil ruler, or the unruly slave owner. I have never seen myself rape someone, or maim an individual. I am no one special, I am just me.

    Ailish's thoughts have brought something to light for me personally - OF COURSE! Consciousness is the creator - we create our realities. This does not mean I have to experience all other choices made by other souls on the other end of the spectrum. I could be aware of it in other ways. At least in my opinion.

    What are your thoughts? Check the poll questions if you agree with the statement. You can have several choices. ;)
     
  2. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    I think this is a great topic, Deborah. ;)

    I couldn't agree more.

    There are many different "ways of being." I am sure there is not one of us here who has not hurt another -- through thoughts, words or actions. Conversely, we have also been hurt by others. It is what we choose to do with those experiences that shapes who we are and what we continue to experience -- in this life, and in others.

    For example -- if you were a victim in one life, it doesn't mean you are going to come back the next life and be the perpetrator. If you are holding thoughts of vengeance, hatred and anger inside of you, then that is most certainly what you will create for yourself. If you choose to accept the situation with compassion, love and understanding -- that is also what you will create. Could a victim not understand the depths of pain and sorrow it caused them to be put into such a situation? Could they not come back with full knowledge and understanding -- and choose to use that experience for the greater good? It's been my experience that they can -- and do. ;)

    I'm really looking forward to everyone's thoughts on this topic...and how everyone else sees and defines karma.
     
  3. vicky

    vicky Senior Member

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    I agree. I don't have to be shot to believe that it hurts. There are a lot of things one can learn from observing human behavior. I believe that our futures are fluid and maleable, changing every time we change our responses to life's situations.
    Vicky
     
  4. tiltjlp

    tiltjlp A Recycled Soul

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    I very much believe that our spirituality is inwardly self-contained, although it can be and is influenced from without. A major truth for me is that Reality is whatever I preceive it to be.

    John
     
  5. HelplessDancer

    HelplessDancer Sheikless Sheba

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    I've long believed in the Stoic idea that everything happens for a reason, and that if something happens, it was meant to have happened. However, since we don't know our future (unless one is gutsy enough to look into the twelfth house of one's astrological chart), I guess it could be argued that we're freely choosing to do things that are our fate, since we don't know what we're predestined to do. Although that doesn't explain unforeseen events of horrible magnitude, like the Shoah, the Armenian Genocide, or the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's the reason why some people feel that people who died in such horrific events tend to come back sooner than people usually take to reincarnate, because their karmic mission for that lifetime wasn't finished yet. I also believe that those who commit great evil, like Josef Mengele, Pol Pot, or Atatürk, are destined to come back in really bad future incarnations, even as lowly as an ant, as punishment for massive past sins. And I also believe the theory that says that someone who is, for example, a racist in one life needs to come back as a member of the group s/he was prejudiced against, to learn how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot.
     
  6. curious_girl

    curious_girl Curious Member

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    Karma is definitely not punishment.
    It is therapy to the soul.
    It's about becoming aware,
    about living from our hearts,
    and making the right choices.
    (At least for the time being ;))

    Curious Girl.
     
  7. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi again,

    I have come to think of reincarnation as an evolutionary process towards greater understanding and enlightenment, each life becoming a progress in relation to a previous life. Under this concept, it would be unnatural for someone who has already reached greater enlightenment to return as an evil person or even as a creature of lesser consciousness than we can have as human beings.

    As far as I can understand the process, the concept of action and reaction does not mean that we have to undergo what others have chosen to. Each individual soul / spirit is unique and unique in their experiences and progress.

    The sense and pain of loss that one might inflict upon another in a certain lifetime, perhaps by taking someone's life, does not necessarily mean that this person will have to be killed by the one he harmed previously for the karmic cycle to be fulfilled. The loss may come disguised in another way such as a divorce, the loss of a child...

    What seems to be a universal truth, however, is that no action goes unaccounted for. This seems to be the way our souls / spirits and even the universe balance themselves out. No evil deed goes without consequence (though punishment might be too harsh a word to describe the process).

    This concept in itself seems to carry the notion of some form of justice, which to me is a clear indication of the presence and existence of a Greater Intelligence in the grand order of things...
     
  8. Susie

    Susie Dreamer-former moderator

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    I am re-reading Reincarnation: The Missing Link in Christianity by Elizabeth Claire Prophet and found this wonderful quote on karma as it relates to past lives:

    A nice explanation of karma...for me, this affirms my belief that I am responsible for all of my thoughts, actions, beliefs, no matter how they originate, and that consciousness creates in the present- up to this very moment.

    I believe that we are here to both learn, and that our actions can teach others. My mother always said that teaching occurs through example and that we can learn from others actions.
     
  9. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    What a great explanation, Susie!

    Thanks for sharing that -- I always look forward to your posts. ;)

    My grandma always told me the same thing. :thumbsup:

    Ailish
     
  10. Charles Stuart

    Charles Stuart Probationary

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    Hi everyone,

    Very nice, Susie...:thumbsup:

    Yesterday I had a very nice mystical experience that "coincidentally" relates to this topic: I was at the beach with a friend when he "ïncorporated" a spiritual guide, who said to me: "Don't interpret what you are going through as punishment, consider it as a purification...
     
  11. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    HI Charles!

    Very profound!!!!!!! And IMO - right on the money. ;)

    I have been away in Italy - traveling for the past three weeks. So I have a lot of catching up to do. : angel

    I have enjoyed this thread and members input; thank you!
     
  12. snooziums

    snooziums Lost soul

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    While karma does strive for balance, I still believe that the divine gift of freewill can override it. Free will is a powerful gift, and some have used it for good, while others for lesser proposes. But, I think that the individual soul must choose its own lessons, so if something does not fit in what the soul chooses, then it should not have to experience it.

    I am not sure if what I said made any sense. So, I will return to being shy.
     
  13. jackh

    jackh Senior Registered

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    It's been my experience that what our emotions tell us to back off from and run, soul will want to jump into with both feet and body following to get the experience under "it's" belt. That's how soul learns.

    One way to decide if you want to go through with something is to ask 3 questions: Is it true?
    Is it kind?
    Is it necessary?

    Sometimes it is hard to apply all 3 but the last 2 almost always apply.:)

    Jack
     
  14. Mousie

    Mousie Senior Registered

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    I am not altogether sure I believe in karma in the sense it's generally understood.

    Has anyone ever considered the possibility that a person can reincarnate into the same life over and over until you "get it right"? That might account for a sense of deja vu in certain instances. Maybe the reason someone feels they've already done/said/experienced a certain reality is because they actually have; they're simply rewound to the beginning (so to speak) to play it out again.

    I'm not saying you won't reincarnate into someone else at a later time. But I'm fairly sure you have to get each life completely "right" before you're given the option to move on to another. Karma in that sense would be repeating the same mistakes (and living with the consequences) until you make different choices within a single life (creating a new reality as it were).

    By the way, I also think it's possible that you may be relocated to a earlier time within your life (if you only need to repeat parts). Reality is not as solid as most people believe it to be; it's malleable.

    I have reasons for thinking this might be the case. I don't ordinarily discuss the events that led me to this conclusion. Actually, I'd rather not. But suffice it to say, I think this might actually be closer to the mark. Karma stays within one lifetime I'm pretty sure of that -- it all hinges on choices.

    Then I'm pretty sure you have the option of picking another life (a packet of learning if you will) to work your way through different lessons. But it's an option that you don't necessarily have to exercise.
     
  15. snooziums

    snooziums Lost soul

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    This is an interesting idea, that I have given some thought to, however, in many cases it is hard to replay out a life again, with so much change in the world right now.

    I know that for me, it would be impossible to replay this life out again, since some of the events that shaped it, and the places are long gone, and will never happen again.

    Also, the year 2012 is fast approaching, where the world shall ascend to a higher level, this repeating the same life over on this world might not be possible, so any karma lessons will need to be learned fast, or else they will be superseded by a higher level of karma that will be quite different.
     
  16. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    This made me smile Jackh -

    Thanks for sharing ! :)
     
  17. freewill

    freewill New Member

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    Very interesting ,,
    but.. ehm,, Karma always puzzles me. I believe "Good deeds bear good fruits" But to what extent is this true? I mean how could we determine whether an action is right or wrong? Certainly killing people is wrong, then what about eating somebody's food without acknowledging them? Could this also be subject to Karma? And in what way will it be expressed?

    But nevertheless, karma seems to be the most plausible law governing reincarnation.

    Another quick question, why is it that some people could remember past lives while the majority can not? What kind of life would it be for those who know about their past lives?


    Cheers...
    : angel
     
  18. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    Welcome to the forum Freewill! :)

    I think we're doing good and the right things when our conscience is clear - to put it shortly.

    I believe some people remember past lives spontaneously, because they need to, or because they're just more open spiritually by nature. Many people however (me included) don't really remember spontaneously, but in these cases remembering is about desire to learn and grow - and that desire is becoming stronger and stronger in more and more several people in these times I believe.

    Karoliina
     
  19. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    Hi freewill,

    Welcome to the forum. :)

    I agree, but to me this is simply "Positive actions create positive reactions." I don't think there is a big "punishment" awaiting us in another life.

    I guess that would depend entirely upon the situation. The person giving the food could be forgiving and compassionate -- and may keep giving regardless of not being acknowledged for it...or the person could turn away and give the food to someone who appreciates the gesture. There are so many ways it could play out, and so many different people that could be affected by the one act...it's hard to say.


    You may enjoy reading these threads:

    How does karma work

    Why don't most people consciously remember past lives?


    I hope you enjoy the discussions here!

    Ailish :)
     
  20. Monica Gabriell

    Monica Gabriell Senior Registered

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    My karma

    Hi everybody!,
    It's good to be back here after a few days "off".
    Well, new thoughts... I don't know if this is new, but for me, I'm still battling to understand karma.
    I think karma is the situation we are in... determined by what we were!!!. I mean, we are here to learn, teach, contemplate, get rewards for good things, and atone for anything that wasn't so right.
    I don't believe in "punishment", but in justice and betterment
    When we have done the incorrect, we are here, perhaps, to do service to those we wronged, help them and learn... learn, especially, NOT to do it again, and that our actions DO HAVE consequences. How long for the atornment to last?. I don't know, it depends on how long it takes to make amends and restitution. Then we move on.
    Having said all this, I'm still very confused in many ways. For example, I cringe at the state of the world, especially in moments like now, with war raging on in the Middle East, and my daughter terrified for her boyfriend who is stranded in Lebanon with some other 3000 fellow Australians. I feel that God sometimes doesn't listen, and have abandoned us. Why, otherwise, all this madness???. And what have we done, that we are still paying the price for the countless wars and bloodshed in history?.
    And I wonder: if this continues, will we ever be free of this plague, war????
    A penny for your thoughts.
    Monica
     

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