Karma Issues/ Karmic Backlash and Past Lives

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by MoonSinger, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. MoonSinger

    MoonSinger Senior Registered

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    I posted this under the topic of DEPRESSION AND PAST LIFE ISSUES but I also want to post it as a new topic so that I may get more responses. I am very interested in how past life relationships affect our lives today and how to deal with karma issues. Thanks for any responses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    (from my other post)
    Thanks for your responses and your support. I did go to the website and found some positive postings about the meds I am supposed to be taking. I am going to try them again. I realize that I must.
    However, I still think there are spiritual aspects going on here. I really want to discuss them. It's hard to find people who are open to it. If I work on the medication part of it, I hope that you will discuss with me the other possible elements.

    My father and I obvioulsy have some really bad energy between us. The hardest part for me is to wonder what I must've done to him in a past life. I don't want to get overwhelmed with details but I do want to understand enough that I can heal my anger and hopefully move on from this.

    I have had some distant memories of past lives but not anything vivid and nothing that "smacks" of a life shared with my father. I did do the candle exercise (in the bathroom, candlelight only, looking into the mirror and watching your face change...) I saw one very, very bad man there and it really scared me. I never forgot that and I think it was the beginning of a deep spiritual awareness for me. I had not considered that I had been a really mean person in a past life because I am such a kind person now.

    So, how do we deal with information such as this? I would like to know more about karma and karmic debt. If the life I am living now is about karmic debt, is there a way for me to "pay my dues" and move on?


    I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

    Thanks,

    MoonSinger
     
  2. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

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    Hi Moonsinger,

    First -please do not assume based on karma that you deserve to be in an abusive relationship.

    My Mom did a lot of regression work with people back in the early 1990's.
    It was her way of sharing her gift of inner vision with others and helping them through traumatic past life memories. One of the things she did, was when she would come across an individual who was having clear memories of a past life, that included another person who was repeatedly abusive, hurtful, or manipulating -- was she helped the person to reverse the magnetic poles between themselves and the hurtful individual that repeated the offensive behavior.

    For example, one woman who she worked with --whose father and brother had raped her repeatedly in this life since age two -- appeared (in several sessions with my mother) over and over again in several life times where she was again raped, and abused by these same two men.

    Different time periods, different scenarios. This woman was very obese, very depressed, owned nothing personally and was in her 40's. She had come to think that --with all of her searching into New Age thought regarding Karma - that her karma must be to endure this from them -- that she must have done something terrible to them.

    My mother helped her to see that she had not brought this upon herself, she was not responsible for their choices -- only hers. During her last session ..Mom had her visualize her father first....and to feel the energy pull between them, to actually see him standing in front of her; then she had her visualize reversing that energy, as if the other person was upside down and opposite of her-thereby reversing the magnet pull or releasing the bond between them. Then she did the same with the brother.

    After doing this she reinforced the fact that she had choices, that she was not responsible for her father or brother, nor had she done anything wrong in any of her past lives to deserve to be raped and abused repeatedly. She helped her see that it was their choice to engage in the abuse....not hers.(Mom could of course see her past lives with her.)

    The woman came out of trance state, fully energized, happy, released from the negativity, the anger, and the shame. Last my Mom heard -- she lost 100 pounds, bought a condominium, was going to school and was very happy.

    As the Tibetan Buddhists suggest, -- the soul will be drawn, as a magnet, into whatever womb resonates with all its past experiences -- if a soul is not aware.

    I still have a hard time with the guiding and planning sessions so many authors write about. Suggesting that we plan to be abused and we need to learn to choose differently, but not telling us how! Mom showed me how.

    I did this visualization in a meditation myself, reversing the magnetic poles between my ex and myself.....it has an amazing effect, an immediate release.
     
    glia21 and fireflydancing like this.
  3. JulieZ

    JulieZ ******

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    Deborah,

    You never cease to amaze me! I'm very interested in knowing more about the magnetic poles as you've described.

    I read a book awhile back called Soul Retrieval- Mending The Fragmented Soul by Sandra Ingrerman. It is based on the ancient shamanic tradition of soul loss and retrieving pieces of the fragmented soul for healing emotional pain and even physical illness. Very intriquing to say the least.

    Moonsigner, I couldn't agree with Deborah more in saying, please don't think you have some karmic debt to pay off. I went through cycles of that too...I'm not fully healed or one with myself yet, but am on the journey there. It helped me so much to finally say, I don't deserve this! I'll be wishing you lots of love and light.

    Perhaps a guided meditation(s) as Deborah described would be beneficial in helping you release.

    Take care,
    Julie
     
  4. Stephan

    Stephan Senior Registered

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    Oh, you're so right, Deborah. One of the misunderstandings about karma that we deal with in the western world is the idea that we choose negative experiences as a sort of punishment for the things we might have done in the past. This stems from our western religious indoctrination that pennance must be paid--that we must scapegoat ourselves just as our religious icons scapegoated themselves in our behalf. It's a difficult philosophy to get past.

    As an abuse overcomer myself, I too used to wonder what kind of terrible person I must have been to deserve the mistreatment I received as a child. I imagined all kinds of vile things, and they just didn't fit in with who I knew myself to be deep inside, in my inner self. Then, slowly, I came to realize that I didn't choose to be abused--abuse was something that was forced upon me so that I might learn the real lesson of life, which is love.

    What to do with it then? In my case, it was sexual abuse from my brother from the age of 2 until the age of 11. From my mother it was physical and emotional abuse my entire childhood.

    In my desire to understand why?, I came to see these people as hurt people who had their own pain to deal with. I was able to put my rage aside and (after dealing with it and expressing it in positive ways) see them for the hurt children they were, too. With that came forgiveness and, finally, peace.

    I still don't like being around my brother, but that has more to do with who he has become as a person than his behavior problems when I was a child. I understand the dynamics in his life that caused him to treat me as he did. I don't condone them, but I understand. Having the same mother, he responded to his powerlessness at her hand by exercising power over me. It was nothing personl. More than anything, I feel sorry for him because his not dealing with these issues has made him a very unlikeable person and his life is very unhappy. That's a wasted lesson, and he will have to return until he learns it.

    I'm now the caretaker of my mother. She lived with us for about 2 years following a stroke (because my brother didn't want anything to do with her) until I placed her in a nursing home last June because her care became too much for us to handle alone.

    The point of all this? I realize that I did not earn the abuse, nor will I have to repeat it in my next life. By returning negative energy with positive, and by learning to love my "enemies", I believe that I have learned this particular course in the lesson of love.

    No one deserves or earns abuse. We experience trials so that we may learn to love. Period. These lessons are usually pretty tough. This love is not something we must feel; it is something we must do, and it reveals itself in compassion, in letting go of hate, and in sending our abusers off with forgiveness.

    Steph
     
  5. Kelly

    Kelly Administrator Emeritus

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    Ooopsss...I replied in the other thread without even seeign this one ahead of me, so I shall do a quick cut and paste (although judging by the replies you've got already, it's probably been said much better above

    Hi Moonsinger

    I certainly don’t have all the answers and wouldn’t know how to comment on the possibility of this abuse being connected to past lives, especially being you have no real “feel” of anything yourself as of yet.

    What I would suggest though, is that you work on the problem that is in the NOW and in the future, rather than looking to the past first. Karma has become a very black-and-white analogy to it’s original intentions and expression in my opinion and can sometimes be used as more of a scapegoat method of shifting or taking blame upon oneself. By not looking to “heal” and “change” the connection in the present, the pattern will no doubt repeat as long as it is ignored and until it is given full recognition within you and your peace of mind with the world.

    By viewing the abuse as some kind of karmic payment, you are pulling yourself down deeper into the negative emotions already tied into the abuse…something you have to try and move above and beyond and away from….you are giving it power and this is not helping you deal with the issue in the most important time to you…NOW…THIS LIFE. You cannot create change by simply accepting it as you are, instead you need to begin working with it and yourself as a WHOLE, aligning your emotions along with your physical and mental recovery.

    I wish you much light on your journey ahead ------------------
    Lots of Love
    Kelly
     
  6. MoonSinger

    MoonSinger Senior Registered

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    Thanks so much to everyone who posted. I really needed this support. This depression has really been doing a number on me. I have tried so many different types of therapy, vitamin regimens, healing sessions, etc. and all to no avail. After suffering for so long, after crying out to God so many times, asking Why? and asking for healing and not feeling that you have been heard, you know, it makes a person wonder, what did I do to deserve this?

    Deborah, the woman you described in your post has many similarities. I am 39, have bad credit, own nothing, not even a car, am obese, unhealthy,have been in and out of bad relationships, cannot sustain relationships, etc., etc. I don't even know if my current marriage is right or now. Somtimes he is so good to me and I think I may try to push him away because I don't know how to be loved....

    Anyway, I would like to ask how can I find someone like your Mom, someone who is honest and real and not a fraud, to do this work with me? I am in the suburbs of Atlanta, GA. Does anyone know of anybody here who does this kind of work?

    I am so eager to move on with my life. I know in my heart that I have an important spiritual purpose on this Earth. I just MUST move on from where I am.

    Thanks again so much for your posts/support,
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

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    Hi Moonsinger,

    Is GA close to Philadelphia? Carol Bowman does regressions and you might be able to set up session with her -- if it's not too far. Here is a link to contact her -

    Carol Bowman
     
  8. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

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  9. MoonSinger

    MoonSinger Senior Registered

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    Deborah,

    Thanks for your reply. I have been doing some research on the internet and looking for someone to work with. The hardest part is how to know if they are sincere, you know?

    Blessings,

    ~MoonSinger
     
  10. fairchilde

    fairchilde Listening...

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    Hi All,

    In day to day pratical affairs and in validating our own experiences through our emotions (truly feeling them) and seeking the answers through them...is what I'm learning is the key thing. Emotions and giving them their process has a very fundamental purpose in our world.

    My other 2 cents :) is that all those in our lives choose on some level to be there in our lives...meaning, they perhaps know (on that same level) what they've gotten into! I'm speaking of the "life plan" before incarnating back to earth and those within our soul group who choose to "plan" with us!

    With Love,
    angie
     
  11. tanguerra

    tanguerra Administrator

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    I have been reading various books lately, mostly written by people practising psychology and past life regression telling of their experiences with their patients and the conclusions they have come to. In Hans Ten Dam's book Exploring Reincarnation he says that, based on the hundreds of regressions he has done with his own patients, while many people relate having a carefully laid out life plan before they incarnated, it is by no means a universal thing. Many people simply bounce back into life without any real plan at all, or with only the sketchiest of general outlines. This makes sense to me because it's also the case with many people with their present life situation - some have carefully thought out life and career goals and others just stagger from one crisis to the next! :laugh:

    The theory that we choose to come back and be tormented in order to pay off some karmic debt is not a very useful one in my view. It strikes me as a rationalisation and an excuse for bad behaviour as well as 'blaming the victim'. Bad things happen. People are sometimes cruel and selfish. I don't really know why. It happens. Perhaps they just don't know any better and are operating as best they can from within their own pain, fear and confusion. But if something bad happens it is not useful to say 'I must have deserved that.' It is only useful to think of how to put a stop to it or walk away from it or help protect others from it with as much grace as possible, without doing more damage for preference.

    A system of retribution and revenge doesn't seem very 'cosmic' to me. It seems like a recipe for perpetual tit for tat not for continuous evolution and improvement. I simply do not believe in some sort of cosmic Santa Claus keeping score of who has been naughty and nice and who needs to have a few more 'cuts of the cane' until they can be 'forgiven'. It is all just a bit too neat for one thing and I always suspect such neatness in matters relating to this messy business of life.

    If there is no cosmic Santa and we are keeping our own score I find it all the more unlikely that we would choose to come back and be harmed by someone who we had harmed in the past. It just makes no sense. If I was up in 'heaven' between lives having a bit of a think about it all, and I had harmed someone in my previous life, surely I would elect to help them in the upcoming life in some way rather than be harmed by them so that we could get 'even'? I am not saying that it never happens, I am saying that I doubt that it is the rule for everyone. I even doubt there are any hard and fast rules as such.
     
  12. traveler

    traveler Senior Registered

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    Hey, that's not right. I like Santa Claus! :laugh:

    Seriously, I do tend to follow a more strict interpretation of karma. In recent years I have been more attracted to the Buddhist view because that explanation of life just makes sense to me. I like the idea of karma as actions and consequences. I don't think of it as a big Santa (or God, or whatever higher being) just sitting up there in the sky keeping score. I believe it works more like the law of gravity. What goes up must come down, what you reap you shall sow. It's not necessarily "harsh", it is fair.

    This does not necessarily mean that everything bad that happens to you is because of some heinous crime you committed in a past life. Sometimes bad things happen because we make poor decisions, such as in relationships. When we start making wiser choices, we are happier and find ourselves in better situations. I also believe it can be possible to "repay" bad karma by choosing to do good things.

    The belief that you deserve bad things happening to you or that you must pay penance for some percieved wrong against someone is a common justification in victims of abuse. However, it perpetuates abuse because it does not break the cycle. The cycle is broken, not through blaming yourself, but by making better decisions in how you respond to abuse. Counseling can help greatly with these kinds of issues if you can find a good therapist. :)
     
  13. Obie

    Obie Senior Registered

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    I was wondering....say someone is repeatedly abused in a current lifetime. However they choose not to forgive the abuser, will they be forced to come back in the next life and undergo the same type of abuse? Do you have to forgive to be able to move on to a happier lifetime? If Deborah's mom's patient did not forgive her father and brother for raping her, will she have been forced to go thru all that again in the next life?
     
  14. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    Hi Obie,

    I personally do not believe that anyone is “forced” to do anything. By not forgiving, I believe one is actually doing harm to oneself by holding onto the negative emotions involved (fear, sadness anger etc.) Those emotions can be held within the body – and manifest in many ways in both our current and future lifetimes.

    Again – I do not believe we are “forced” into any situations. However, the choices we make in the present always have an effect that ripples outwards. If she is focused on the negative, she will draw that towards her. Not necessarily in the same scenario – that would depend on many factors , imo.


    I do believe the healthiest way to deal with that sort of trauma – is to acknowledge it happened and to move through it. You cannot change what happened, but you can control your actions and reactions. You can choose to be a survivor instead of playing the victim. You can choose to empower yourself by taking charge of your life – to be strong –and to understand the lesson within and use the experience to help others. Forgiveness is a huge release – and it’s not something you do for the other person, but for yourself.
     
  15. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."


    — Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil


    I have often reflected upon this when faced with the choice of whether to fight or not. Regardless of whatever choice was made, a demon of some sort always stood at either end of the battlefield, and no matter what the outcome, it always seemed that they would be the only ones to win anything.


    It has often seemed that those less qualified to fight were best suited to win the greatest victories. Christ and Buddah, who encouraged turning the other cheek; the frail girl next door, who dared the bullies to do their worst — these would seem to be the true heroes, because they somehow defeated evil without themselves becoming monsters.


    Could this be what is meant by reversing one's magnetic polarity? To somehow manage to gaze long into the abyss without becoming the monsters we seek to defeat?
     
  16. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

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    Interesting reflections John. I thought perhaps others may find this thread interesting or useful. Has anyone else tried reversing the magnetic poles?
     
  17. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director

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    Any new members have thoughts about this?

     
  18. shadowsofmypast

    shadowsofmypast Senior Registered

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    Talking about my past lives


    eased my depression so much.


    Putting my last life to rest has helped me


    greatly being she was very self destructive


    It had effected all my life .
     
  19. FraZZleD

    FraZZleD FraZZleD

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    Maybe just maybe the lesson you chose was "forgiveness". It's has to come from within your soul. Once you have forgiven your dad from the soul, you will only know kindness towards him no matter what he says or does.


    I read that somewhere..... It helped me much in getting better with out seeking help. You see when I was a teen I had been gang raped. I had a hatred for them and all men for that matter. My life never improved till I read someone else saying the same thing I just told you.


    Everyday I repeated I will forgive the guys that did this to me until I knew I was saying it from my soul. That's when my life started turning around. By repeating it everyday I started to believe it. You'll know when it's real because you'll feel it from your soul.


    Just my thoughts it worked for me.....Hope it helps you.
     
  20. FraZZleD

    FraZZleD FraZZleD

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    I never heard about the magnetic poles, I find that interesting. It seems to be similar to an opposite reaction. Kind of like I was taught a long time ago. If someone hates you treat them with kindness. You will always feel good no matter the outcome. They will become your friend because of it. Or... they will get more mad at you which would be them punishing themselves. Either way your not raising your blood pressure over them. It's a win win situation for you.
     

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