Karma of world leaders, billionaires, celebrities who "have it all" in one life

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by JustinTime, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    Do the billionaires, world leaders, and celebrities who literally "have it all" in one life have "pay" for their experiences in subsequent or previous lives? I.e., does the billionaire or world leader who literally lives a life where every desire is satisfied (money, power, health) have to "pay" for this by picking extremely difficult lives such as a street beggar, a disabled, or other tragic circumstances in other lives? What is the karmic ties that allows a person to be born into a life where he is a world leader or billionaire or sports celebrity in the first place?

    Can any soul during the reincarnation process plan these lives of wealth and power, or is there some type of contract that the soul acknowledges that says that should it choose one life of extravagant wealth or power or influence, it will have to "pay for that" in subsequent lives?
     
  2. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    Karma doesn't exist, so no one has to pay for anything, and that includes billionaires. Now, life and reincarnation give you infinite possibilities of living different lives, so why should we stick to just one way of life? Isn't it more logical to choose always different circumstances so that we can gain as much experience as possible?
     
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  3. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I recently read of a different meaning for Karma than I understood before. The idea was that it was more the remainder of the goals of your life-plan that you have not yet accomplished - I personally felt more comfortable with that.

    Another thing that I wanted to add here is that I have been blessed to have known people at quit a few levels of the continuum from deprivation to excess in various measures. There are things to be learned at every level, and both happiness and unhappiness exist throughout - those you think "have it all" often don't - the challenges are just different. Don't waste your time with envy of those you think have more than you, it is a difficult for the ego to distinguish between need and want without considering the potential downside. As for "wealth and power", the extremes that come to mind of people I've known are a woman whose parents gave her to a man, when she was thirteen, in exchange for a cow so that their family had milk to drink because they were so poor they were eating bark from trees, and at the other end is a man who owns/built a Corporation that employs more than three-hundred-thousand people worldwide. Both of these people found sorrow, joy, and love in this lifetime, just in different ways.
     
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  4. baro-san

    baro-san Active Member

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    I believe that karma is a balancing force that doesn't overlook anything: thoughts, desires, actions, and their consequences. If you act with good intentions but your actions affect negatively, you still draw bad karmic traces that will have to be balanced, because ignorance is an explanation, not an excuse.

    As Ken said, the wealth level is no guarantee of happiness, neither poverty of unhappiness. This applies to everything: health, beauty, age, etc..

    We all started, eons ago, from blissful ignorance, and here we are. :)
     
  5. Cassie

    Cassie Kemetic-Shintoic Pagan

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    Like a few here, I don't really believe in the grand Karmic scheme, only the Karma we create on earth where we reward the good and punish the bad ourselves.
    (well we should do that, but the 'human rights' concept is super twisted).
    I believe people are either lucky or not, driven to achieve/survive or not.

    I like to think the Universe is against negative energy, and that it creates us with our individual notions of 'right and wrong' in order to promote the removal of it.
    But it's so primal and raw out there in the void that energy just... moves, from one place to another. Negative energy doesn't get 'punished' it just gets dispersed, because it isn't 'growth'.

    Unfortunately I don't think a rich man will come back a pauper because he spends his money unjustly, just the same as an abused child wont settle into the next life with a loving family because he was brutalized by the last one. Every experience is open to us and it's up to us what we learn from it, and whether or not we contribute to the Universe's understanding of itself.
     
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  6. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    Ken, but what determines one's "remainder of the goals of one's life-plan"? What determines whether one's life plan is to be the king of the rock and rule a nation, or whether one's life plan is to be a beggar with no chance of living under one's own roof? Your point is well taken, but it still assumes the existence of some type of life plan for everyone. What determines whether one's plan is to be powerful and wealthy (like Putin) or to lead a tragic life (disabled, blind, deaf, family abuse, rape, etc ...)? Something still has to determine this. Do you think it's random or is it based on past actions in past lives (if they exist)?

    A couple of replies also hints that the people who appear to "have it all" on the surface still suffer their own misfortunes. That is true, but it sidesteps the premise of my original question: even if everyone suffers, the degree of suffering, on average, is vastly different between individuals. There is no question that the very wealthy person does not suffer as much as the person who gets hit with tragedy after tragedy and cannot get a lucky break, can't find a job, loses a spouse, gets raped, etc... To tell me that someone like Donald Trump or George Soros suffers just as much as a displaced, poor minority in a ghetto in Detroit sounds a bit ridiculous to me. I'm sure people like Trump or Soros have their own woes, but what is it that allows them to plan a life like the ones they have? And what is it that "forces" beggars and poor people to have to experience poverty?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  7. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    JustinTime, I guess I did not state my message well, the time period of the life-plan I was talking about was the one before birth rather than the one the human-ego wants.
    Again, your life-plan before birth would be a primary factor if I understand the ideas about reincarnation correctly, an existance that fits their purpose. But, what I can tell you about people's perception of personal tragedy is that it is remarkably close to being the same regardless of the actual damage, just as the extent of joyful feelings or feelings of accomplishment perhaps are close to the same among socioeconomic or physical ability levels. But in a sense we are comparing apples to oranges since it gets complicated with wants vs. needs and physical vs. mental/spiritual.

    If indeed we are to have all kinds of experiences in our incarnations, would it really help to level out everyone's earth-life so they were the same? Earth-life is more a theater with actors than something that needs a script-change in my opinion. I don't think we should complain about the parts that others play without considering their importance to the overall performance that is taking place. Add light and love to help as much as possible, but allow leeway for life-plans to be enacted.
     
  8. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    Ken, your point is well taken, but I'm not suggesting we "level out everyone's earth-life so they were the same". This is clearly not possible. However, what I am curious about, is if this is a theater with actors, then if a soul gets to play the role of a king in one life and enjoy all the earthly riches, then it doesn't make sense for that same soul to experience it all again in another life - that soul had its chance and its time for another soul to get their chance at being the "king" (or substitute whatever you like to call for money/power/fame). I'm not saying every person should have the same life experiences at the same time, but I do think souls that were forced to play the role of "beggar" in one life SHOULD get the right to play the role of "prince" in another life (call it another stage play, if you will). Otherwise, you would have some souls getting to experience only material goodness again and again and others only get to experience physical suffering again and again, which clearly doesn't feel balanced nor right.
     
  9. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Justin, the word you made bold leads to the question of whether there actually is such a thing as SHOULD at a higher level and/or its relevance. However, before we "Yes, but..." each other endlessly, rethink your statements and consider that what you think is the "right way" may not be exactly what is happening in your examples of the current "rich and powerful", maybe those people that appear to "have it all" were among the downtrodden many times before, perhaps we replay a particular part because we play it so well! It would seem to me that repeated reincarnation experiences would probably be similar to repeated experiences in a single lifetime either from habit or need of some kind. I personally do not think we can know those answers unless we knew what we set out to learn/test/experience in a particular lifetime and also knew the agreements we made with others as to what part we would play.

    The other point, about diversity, is that you can not appreciate anything without the existence/experience of its opposite, but you already know that, I just wanted to inject it into your thought-stream.

    One of the pages I marked in "Flipside" was when the author recalled filming one of Micheal Newton's seven-thousand regressions where the spirit explained that it was far harder to play the part of a Nazi "bad guy" than a Holocaust "victim", he said that his head shot up from behind his viewfinder and he could not believe what he just heard. In another filmed regression, a father who had played the villain in a woman's life told her how hard it was to play that part that they had agreed for "him" to play - perhaps understanding it this way might detract from the experience we contracted for - it is indeed a fascinating puzzle. It seems there are numerous ways of learning the same lesson with them happening in different sequences, ages, and extremes.

    Do you have memories of a past life?
     
  10. baro-san

    baro-san Active Member

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    "I think everybody should get rich and famous and get everything they dreamed, so they can see that's not the answer." - Jim Carrey ( you can listen to a JC interview on youtube)
     
  11. somesurrealkid

    somesurrealkid New Member

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    This is definitely along the lines of what I would say.
    Even if the person is famous and seems to have it all, they could be paying for it within their life.
    It's isolating, dehumanizing, overwhelming, and stressful to be famous. It's having all eyes on you and not being able to do anything right. It's being pressured to be completely consistant with yourself day and night. It's having your (often awkwardly constructed) words represent whole groups of people.
    It sucks, to be honest.
    You can't just DO things. You have to keep up appearances or you're seen as a failure.
    Money can't buy back freedom from criticism.
    Famous people, I think, don't need any more karma than they get already in their lives.
     
  12. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    I totally disagree with this here. I'd, and most people, would rather be rich (at least enough wealth to not worry about finding or begging for a job my entire life) than to be poor. The stress that comes with being poor is FAR higher than the stress that comes with being rich. The rich people I know, while they could still have their own problems, generally do NOT have as much issues as the poor folks I know. I think it's silly to say that somehow the billionaires and celebrities or even extremely wealth low-profile people have equal or more suffering than less fortunate people, that's simply NOT true.
     
  13. baro-san

    baro-san Active Member

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    So, why aren't you rich? Probably this was your choice when you decided to incarnate as "Justine Time". If you planned to be rich, and you aren't that means that you haven't yet learned what you are supposed to, and the Universe will constrain you until you'll get with the program.

    The meaning of JC's quote is that "money and celebrity won't make you happy".
     
  14. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    I have no idea what I'm supposed to learn.

    Money and celebrity might not make you happy, but I'd rather life's issues with more money than less money, all else equal.

    Money doesn't equal happiness but not having money and self respect doesn't equal happiness either. It's just an excuse made up by poor people to comfort themselves.
     
  15. JustinTime

    JustinTime New Member

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    I have no idea what I'm supposed to learn. All I know it is my duty in life to make as much money as possible to protect my family and give them as good of a support network as possible. Hence money is important, the more the merrier. Gaining financial independence and not having to beg for a job means heaven. Why not strive towards this?

    Money and celebrity might not make you happy, but I'd rather life's issues with more money than less money, all else equal.

    Money doesn't equal happiness but not having money and self respect doesn't equal happiness either. It's just an excuse made up by poor people to comfort themselves.
     
  16. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

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    Interesting conversation here...

    I think you guys are missing one important point here. It happens when you try to look for a spiritual meaning in everything we do here. I strongly believe that LEARNING is not the only purpose we have when we reincarnate. Just relax a bit! Life is sh*t, that's one of the greatest truths. How many poor people are there in the world? Clearly, many more than celebrities and rich people. Odds are that in our next life we'll be in the side of the poor again. So, it's NOT a matter of balance, it's not a matter of which role I have to play now and change it every now and then. We may have some plans before we reincarnate, but life is not only the result of those plans, it's the result of the circumstances we were born in, our decisions, the opportunities to change we get in life (because no, we can't create those opportunities out of nothing), the way we manage those opportunities depending on many factors such as our will or our necessity or our preferences, etc., and yes, a great deal of luck.

    I also think that as souls we have a responsibility. Our individual choices and paths, what we personally gain through our incarnation, is important, but we live on Earth with millions of other people. Maybe the only thing one has to learn from being poor is that life is sh*t and you can work in the future for making the planet a better place to live in. Maybe someone becomes rich to use their money for good purposes, driven by their former unconscious past life experiences, or maybe just because they grew up in a poor environment and now they have the power to do something about it. As always, there are no absolute good and bad in each circumstance. It's up to each of us to make the best of our own circumstances.

    In a way, I think it's the same with other matters, as peace and war. Probably we all have to live a war so that we become pacifists in our next life, because now we know how horrible a war is. But even when we know that, we might get involved in more wars, because each life is different, different circumstances can lead to the same end, and because unfortunately many people in the world keep participating in such wars. So, yes, it's a matter of learning, but it can also be a matter of other things, as teaching others to find their strength, for example, or just experiencing the same thing just to see if this time you can handle it better.
     

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