Kemetic Monaltry

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by SeaAndSky, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    [​IMG]


    I know the title of this thread is somewhat confusing, especially as I had not heard of either of these words until recently, However, it has to do with a concept of deity from the religion of ancient Egypt. (BTW--the image above is not only evocative of ancient Egyptian religion in its own right, it alludes to an image or idea that has been discussed by John Tat and others in terms of spirit revelations).


    Anyhow, as part of the new paganism springing up, there has been a revival of Kemetic (ancient Egyptian) religion. This seems to come in a variety of flavors, but all of the devotee sites I have looked at speak about the concept of Monolatry as being key to understanding this religion. So, I'll throw out a few quotes from different sites to give some flavor.


    "Many Kemetic Reconstructionists, including members of the large House of Netjer, define their form of polytheism as monolatry, a term coined by Egyptologists. This means that the many individual deities are regarded as parts of an ultimately unknowable self-created Oneness, known in ancient texts as Netjer, "being of divine power," or as Atum, "the complete one/the one who is not."" http://www.religionfacts.com/kemetic-reconstructionism


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  2. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    "The multitude of Gods and Goddesses that the Kemetic people worshipped may at first glance seem bewildering. However, their concept of Divinity can be more easily understood in the idea of monolatry, the belief in one God with many forms. The One, the Divine Force or Power of creation, called Netjer, is completely beyond human comprehension. However, this Power is not only intelligent, but It also loves us and wants us to have a relationship with It. To enable us to get closer to It, Netjer differentiated Itself into many different Names, the Gods and Goddesses of Kemet. These are all intrinsic parts of the Whole, and each One is Netjer in Its own right. If one imagines Netjer as a jewel, each Name would be a different facet. Each of these facets has a personality, a way of doing things, and certain areas of human activity in which It takes an interest. All of the Names together make up the Whole of Netjer. With this concept in mind, it is easier to understand the idea of syncretization, in which one Name is combined with another Name, such as Amen-Ra, or Ptah-Sokar, to reflect the idea of combined functions.


    Kemetic society based itself on Ma'at, which is both a concept and a deity. It is the fundamental order of the universe, what is right and just, and what is in balance. As a deity, Ma'at is personified as a woman with a feather on Her head. In Kemetic society, the King was the link between heaven and earth, between Netjer and the people. The King was the Living Heru, one of the Names of Netjer, and He (or She) was entrusted with governing the country in Ma'at and serving according to Netjer's will. One of the most important rituals in the temples was the offering of Ma'at by the King to Netjer, with the symbol encompassing the reality of the idea. As long as the country was ruled in Ma'at, the forces of destruction were kept at bay. It was the King's duty to insure that Ma'at prevailed, guaranteeing the continuation of Kemet and the world."
    http://www.reincarnationforum.com/threads/my-daughters-accurate-memories.744/#post-16854


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  3. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    "If you looked in your dictionary for the term monolatry and didn't find it, there's a good reason. The term has only existed for half a century, having been coined by Erich Winter and Siegfried Morenz in reference to Near Eastern conceptions of God, and applied to ancient Egypt by Erik Hornung, Jan Assmann, and other Egyptologists and students of religion. Monolatry is the belief that god (as the One) can manifest Itself into other aspects and manifestations (the Many) with Their own personalities and interactions between one another, without ever losing sight of the fact that They all spring forth from the initial One. To abbreviate it to four words: "One divine category, many gods and goddesses." The best example of this is to imagine the Nile and the branches it divides into as it nears the Delta region -- many streams, each having their own name and location, but all of them springing from one water. Monolatry is a form of polytheism, "many gods," but it also permits for a singular Godhead, so Kemetic religion as a monolatry is a modified or special form of polytheism. Sometimes monolatry is referred to as "henotheism," where one acknowledges the existence of many gods but only tends to worship Them one at a time." http://www.kemet.org/taxonomy/term/124


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  4. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    OK, this was a lot of info, but I have been trying to figure out what is going on with John Tat and his Source, and have found the Egyptian religion with its plethora of Gods and Goddesses in shifting relationships rather baffling. The foregoing information helped me to get a grip on the situation, though all may not agree with this summary of underlying beliefs. Actually, I find it very similar to some descriptions of the Trinity I have read (but with many more "components"). It also reminds me a bit of some Kabbalistic concepts I've heard, but that is an even tickier concept to explore.
     
  5. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    S&S Just a few comments of the top of my head.. I don't even have to ask my source about his thoughts about this.. They will be the same as what he thinks about Egyptologist's... They have no idea what they are talking about. For a long time he has tried to explain to me why, which I never really understood what he was talking about until a month or so ago. It's interesting how out of know where the penny drops. I had to ring a call centre on my land line about problems I was having with my mobile phone. It was of course an overseas call centre, from somewhere in Asia.. Everything was fine at first my name, address, contract details, phone number and so on.. Then I was asked how they could help me today. Knowing who I was talking to I spoke slowly and precisely about the problem I was having.. When I finished the person said.. So your phone is working ok.. I said no its not, I explained once again about the single strength in my area which I never have a problem with and was wondering why and when it might be fixed because I needed the phone for my business, most people contact me on my mobile phone.. I said some other things including I have no bars showing signal strength.. I was getting frustrate so I asked do you understand what I'm talking about?. He assured me he completely understood So I asked what is my problem.. He said you cannot turn your phone on. I would suggest you charge the battery or get a new battery .. Then the penny dropped about what my source had being trying to explain to me about the so called experts on Ancient Egypt and Egyptologist's They know all the words and see the symbols but have no real understandings of what they all mean.. What it all meant to Ancient Egyptians.. How Ancient Egyptians interpreted all of it They have no idea.. Its all guess work just as the guy at the call centre. He knew the English words but his understandings and interruptions of the words was wrong or incomplete Think of the problems I had with the call centre and the guys interruptions of the words, then go back 4000-6000 years to 2000-4000 BC years and try to comprehend what the gods where and what they meant to Ancient Egyptians in real time back then


    This not only applies to the gods and pharaohs but every facet of Ancient Egyptian culture.. So to claim this god was this and another god was that has no real meaning to what they actually meant to Ancient Egyptians and why my source has not time for any of those who claim they know


    Regards
     
  6. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    S&S I was thinking about my post. I hope you do not feel I was being negative about your presentation. I just said off the top of my head about my source would think and how good it felt to finally fully understand why he is negative about these types of things. This whole situation I find myself in, is in many ways difficult for the physical John Tat. I John Tat the physical is very understanding about many things, but on issues of Ancient Egypt the only truths and understanding I have are from my source. Blueheart must understand this because some of the things I post that are from John Tat and not the spiritual me or my source are way wrong... I now try my best I can to keep the views and opinions of John Tat out of it. If I do, I always qualify it by saying "its my belief".. More often than not "my belief" is gained from knowledge passed onto me, with some input from myself, none the less it is not a direct communication from my source With all of this you are entering into something, that not even all of the so called experts can fathom out As my source has always said they do not even understand the basics... for example the modern Kemetic people do no even understand why there are so many gods. You see, in Christianity the scholars change their interruptions of the bible as public attitudes change and shift . Ancient Egyptians did not do that. They added gods, god rid of gods changed what the gods represented as public perceptions changed and there social structures changed Always remember were talking about thousands and thousands of years of changes in peoples perceptions and social structures. My source has passed on mountains of such information onto to me. What you may begin to understand is, what you search for is not there, never has been


    Regards
     
  7. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I did not quote the Egyptology "experts"--all of the quotes are from folks who are, or at least would think they were, your co-religionists as followers of the religion of ancient Egypt. They adopt a term as a convenient label for what they believe--"monaltry"--but the content or meaning they give to the term is what you see in their quoted words, though a thousand different folks might express it a thousand different ways. (BTW--I think the second quote, analogizing the gods to the Nile fits in very well with what you have just said about shifting and changing over time--I am sure that though the main body of the Nile has changed its course very little over time, its outlet tributaries have shifted greatly over the ages).


    However, I think the whole thing brings up a larger question: the current resurgence of ancient religious traditions long thought to be dead. This is a phenomena that is happening anywhere there is an ability for people to choose their own religion. In the past (and in many parts of the world right now) this right/ability simply doesn't exist. In the past, in the West, it also didn't exist. However, now that there is access to information and freedom, people are gravitating towards widely varied ancient religious traditions--a phenomena I have followed with some interest. Today one can find devotees to everything from the ancient Norse gods to the ancient Egyptian gods, with everything--including neo-practitioners of ancient Greek, Celtic, etc.--religions in between. I do not think that this is all the result of restless adolescents, disenchanted feminists, generalized rebellion, or etc. I think now that the opportunity is there, many people gravitate (as they often do when PLs are taken into account) towards what they once knew and, in this case, received spiritual nourishment from.


    So, from my perspective, many of these people may be folks who also lived in ancient Egypt, and who are feeling their way back toward the "old" religion. These or their spiritual descendants may well be the natural audience for your message/mission in a future life, and/or your co-workers in that time. Many would doubtless claim contact with the same gods that you now devote yourself to. If so, is what they have received any less valid than what you have received? It may be that you are not the only one, and I have to wonder why you would consider yourself to be. Isn't it just as likely that the gods you speak of are working with numerous incarnates to accomplish their aims? Why should all of their efforts be funneled through you alone?


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  8. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    S&S... The point you make that many of those drawn to Ancient Egypt, their spiritual self did occupy entities in Ancient Egypt is not only valid but 100% correct. I don't think I'm superior, my source does.. He communicates with great authority and has little time (patience is a better word) for others. He lets me know in direct ways when I annoy him, which I often do . He has little patience when I ask him something over and over again because I did not understand what he told me. It goes on and on. My take on all of this is, the manner in which the knowledge is being passed onto you is how you communicate that knowledge and message.. I John Tat does not have the abilities to convey the knowledge and messages passed onto me in any other ways


    Regards
     
  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I take your point: As the teacher, so the student--usually. At some point, the student is to become, hopefully, like the teacher and able to develop a definite and distinctive style, but while learning the student is best served by imitation. Even when/if you also become a teacher, you may decide that your source's approach is the best approach to teaching. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'm interested to hear and try to understand. So, I read what other practitioners have said about the ancient Egyptian religion and try to gain more understanding. No disrespect is intended. Actually, I've never really had any great attraction towards Egypt or Egyptian things in the past. There were some tantalizing glimpses of something there, but there are inklings of truth hidden in many religious traditions. Your threads on the subject and the research they have engendered on my part have worked to greatly increase my interest in the field. If I become a bit annoying, it is only because I want to understand.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  10. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    S&S You are an interesting person in many ways. What I find intriguing about you is your search for spiritual truth.. You really need to know and understand what its all about. Where and how it all began is important to you.. Wanting to understand who your spiritual self is and its purpose are driving you in these searches. I can relate to that.This current incarnation of my spiritual self was essential for my source to locate me, the spiritual me.. As I have said I was missing to them for many spiritual cycles.. At a guess this current incarnation of your spiritual self is of equal importance to you, the spiritual you.. I like to call this current incarnation of mine, just as I would call yours the most important we both may ever have.. When our spiritual self needs to return to its roots, and in doing so needs some help from the physical entity it now occupies.. Just as I have done, nothing should stand in the way of us helping our spiritual self on a physical level, That's what I believe anyway.


    Regards
     
  11. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I have pondered how to respond to your post for the last few days. As to what you have said about me, I agree that the search for spiritual truth is probably the most important thing in my life, though I don't know whether this is the most important incarnation I have ever had. On the latter, I just don't know enough about my PLs to say so for sure. What I do believe is that what I am doing and researching right now is one of the most important things if not the most important thing I will do in this lifetime. Yet, when I say this it doesn't quite ring true. This doesn't mean that I can throw everything else under the bus. The other things I have done in life in terms of family, love and relationships were also important in their turn and still are. It's just that I cannot have lived and died without resolving the BIG issue of life, and I have reached the stage of life where I know that my time to do so is finite. If not now, when? These issues have dogged my steps and been on my mind since early in my life, but they cannot be put off any longer. Now is the time, and I am throwing a lot of what I used to believe out the door in the process. However, not all. I have abandoned much of traditional Christian theology, but not Christ, nor the Bible. I have researched long and hard, coming to the conclusion that Christian eschatology is hopelessly wrong and unbiblical, tainting much of what currently passes for theology.


    The fall from the earliest Origenist consensus with the onslaught of Imperial Christianity is well known and justly criticized by many, however, even the earlier Origenist theology (though it seems to me to be closer to the truth) was also developed based on a false eschatology. One has to penetrate to a time earlier than both the early Greek philosophically based theology and the later Latin "Imperial" theology and its progeny to something earlier still. I have begun to penetrate into the earlier era, the milieu in which Jesus (Yeshua) actually lived and taught, and beyond that--even further back . . . . I am frustrated by my inability to read in the original languages, and hope to further my education in these areas at some point, but I haven't yet reached a stopping point where further progress is impossible. So, onward for the time being.


    At some point, my search tends to intersect your search, but to what extent I am not yet certain. There seem to be some indications that the mystical substrate of Judaism (which later came to be called Kabbalah) existed in at least a preliminary form as Jewish Merkabah/Hekhalot Mysticism and the Sefer Yetzirah at the time of Christ. Many seem to believe that it had its origin with Moses, and Moses (in turn) was learned in all of the wisdom of the Egyptians according to the Bible. So, what constituted that wisdom and to what extent is it reflected in what you are being told? Many believe that it had its origin or at least its analogs in ancient Egypt, but certainly not all. These are open questions for me, but I have already learned a great deal that I did not know.


    As you can see, my approach is somewhat different from yours, though perhaps we shall find that they are complementary in time. I am following the path of scholarly research in many directions simultaneously, though I am merely a layman in terms of the issues I research. You are following a teacher--your source. We are both seeking for growth through meditation. You suspect my quest for wisdom via scholarship, but on the other hand, I'm definitely not always certain about your source. He certainly seems to know of what he speaks, but I cannot see him as being infallible--merely very well informed. I have no reason to distrust his ultimate motives except for the fact that there have been many "spirits" that have sought to influence humankind over the ages--and not all of them have proved to be trustworthy in the end. So, I am cautious, though he would probably merely consider me to be an impertinent and disrespectful infidel (though I try not to be). In the midst of all of this, I am trying as a monotheist to understand your particular form of polytheism. The two may not be irreconcilable, but that is certainly the subject for another post (since I've already taken enough time with this one).


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  12. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    [​IMG]


    Hi John,


    I have seen this particular diagram come up on various sites discussing the theology/cosmology of ancient Egypt (or at least of Heliopolis). The names of the Egyptian gods shown appear to be in another language, but nonetheless, the duplication of the imagery of the gods coming from the sun, as described by or through you in the past, is striking. I thought you might find it interesting.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  13. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    S&S Thanks so much for that.. Confirmation of events my pure spiritual self has, I believed experienced and confirmed by my source always leaves me with feelings of both satisfaction and real fears and concerns about how much more I believe I also know and understand is just as accurate. Different to what most have believed, the sun was never the god, the original gods gods came from the light of the sun they were and are the sun gods. Plural, there always has been more than one god.


    Regards
     
  14. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    When I saw it, it definitely struck me as being very much in line with things you have said. I'll let you know if I think I have found anything else useful. I keep turning over stones, occasionally I find things that make me think of things you have said. That is something that is always at the back of my mind as I search for connections and currents from the most ancient past.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  15. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S On spiritual issues it's much better for me to talk from my spiritual self, not my source with no pre thought about what I will talk about. Its important to understand its my spiritual self who has experienced many of the things my source talks about (reminds me about), he never says that, I just know. John Tat the physical like you is very close to family and friends. But they have no connection to his spiritual self. As you know the physical and spiritual are two very different and separate entities. As you also know John Tat is not a scholar on any of these issues. Almost everything John Tat knows and understands about these subjects has come to him through both his spiritual self and source while meditating. Its also important to understand the differences between the scholars and experts assumptions of what went on and happened and what actually went on and happened. If you read something and take it as some what accurate especially when it appears to be much the same as other experts and scholars have said, but its wrong, then where does that leave you when you are searching for the truth, especially if it happens over and over again


    So where is the truth? Christians would say there god is the truth.. One truth is, the gods blame themselves for the chaos in the world. That is completely different to what the religions teach about there gods, who tell the people that its the sins of the people , the sins of the world. the devil himself who has bought chaos to the people of the world. NO that's not right.... the gods blame themselves for not putting in place the proper controls to prevent this from happening .. The way the world is, is not how it was meant to be. The gods will not allow the chaos to continue. They will restore balance


    When Horus the falcon fly's across the sky and the sun and moon become one, the gods will begin to restore balance


    Regards
     
  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    What you have said about the gods blaming themselves for the chaos in the world appeals to me somehow, though I cannot exonerate humankind either. As the much overused adage goes, with great power comes great responsibility. If humans have their responsibility, what of those who have even greater power than they? In Judeo-Christian theology this problem and its explanation--how a great and powerful God can exist and yet permit evil in the world is referred to as Theodicy. So, this is not a new issue.


    I do not doubt God's goodness despite the apparent problem, nor do I want to launch into some long justification. I can think of a variety of reasons, but the ultimate answer for me is the one given to Job--God is God. One is justified based on God's Power, Goodness and Wisdom in assuming that there is a good reason for the apparent evils and injustices in the world, even if we can't see it from our limited perspective. However, bringing it down to a more "personal" level in the heart of deity, what you have said about the gods blaming themselves reminds me of something you will also recall, how in Genesis God "repented that he had made man" whose thoughts were only on violence, and destroyed all but a few of the people of that day in a great flood in order to give humanity a fresh start. This makes me wonder whether there is something of that type coming.


    In terms of the sun and moon becoming one--this could have many meanings, though the only ones that make any sense to me are figurative (even though the one that has come most clearly into my mind certainly has a physical component). This one, the one that came into my mind almost immediately, not only will occur fairly soon--in 22 years--it will occur in a very significant location from the standpoint of ancient Egypt. It makes me wonder.


    You have given this clue rather cryptically, as perhaps you have received it. So, I will leave it that way for the time being.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  17. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S Something I did not want to talk about, but now after what you said I need to ask you.. What event are you talking about, where will it occur and when would it occur again? What I did not want to talk about could be very significant to this event. What I have been told is the gods will anoint new tribes who will once again become the tribes of the gods. They will be lead by warriors of the gods, humans occupied by a transformed AKH, transformed by the gods who will lead the new tribes of the gods and together they will restore balance.. It would make absolute sense to me that such an event would occur where the new tribes of the gods now live


    If what you said is right, then I believe that Horus flying across the sky before this event is a sign that the gods have returned


    Regards
     
  18. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    As you know both me and my source believe many things in the bible have a direct link going back to Ancient Egypt.. So last night I searched the bible about the sun and the moon, and what it said about them To my surprise there is plenty about the both the sun and the moon in the bible.. The most interesting link to what I have been told by my source I have found so far is Acts2:20 when it says...The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day the Lord arrives. In other words the sun and moon will tell the people the arrival is imminent


    This is an exact link that both the sun and the moon are connected to both events (or the one event).. In many ways as I always do, I hope some of what I have been told is not as accurate
     
  19. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    Oops, I made a mistake on the timing, as it is 11 years from this August rather than 22. Apologies for not getting back with you sooner, I've been unable to access my computer for a few days.


    What I have may not amount to anything, but I'm somewhat used to reading ancient descriptions of events from a Biblical standpoint, where matters that might have an alternative prosaic description are often described in poetic, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, and figurative ways. And, it seems to me that the more significant the event is from the point of view of the intended audience, the more likely it will be expressed in terms that are poetic/figurative and/or expressive of how the listener will experience/respond to the event. So, sometimes a rather prosaic description of an invasion with massive destruction and loss of life may be given. But very often, such a catastrophe may be described in terms of the heavens burning, the earth being shaken from its place, and rivers of blood (or something along those lines). I'm not trying for exact quotes, just the general idea of the types of language used in such situations. The point is that there is usually a fairly prosaic description that could be given, but events that are of tremendous import in themselves are often expressed far more poetically or figuratively--and probably deserve such treatment.


    So, taking your statement: "When Horus the falcon fly's across the sky and the sun and moon become one, the gods will begin to restore balance," I started at a prosaic level, by asking myself what the ancients would mean (from their point of view) by saying this. The first part is fairly easy, since this was a known expression--i.e., Horus the falcon flying across the sky = the sun crossing the sky. (See, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Sky_god). Looking at the next part re the "sun and the moon become one" I almost immediately concluded that the most likely explanation was a solar eclipse. This is the only time when, prosaically speaking, an onlooker would see the sun and the moon merge and become "one" in the sky. And, solar eclipses were, I believe, usually seen as very significant events and portents in the ancient world. However, total eclipses are fairly rare and happen at various locations at different times. This would have to be an eclipse that was going to happen, at least, in Egypt and most likely at a location of special significance from the standpoint of ancient Egypt and the Egyptian gods. I checked and "bingo" there is not only a total eclipse that will happen in Egypt in the not too distant future (August 22, 2027), but it will occur in an area of immense importance--Luxor:


    "As the site of the Ancient Egyptian city of Thebes, Luxor has frequently been characterized as the "world's greatest open-air museum", as the ruins of the temple complexes at Karnak and Luxor stand within the modern city. Immediately opposite, across the River Nile, lie the monuments, temples and tombs of the West Bank Necropolis, which includes the Valley of the Kings and Valley of the Queens." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor)


    On the eclipse, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_August_2,_2027. So, my "shooting from the hip" type interpretation would be that the date for the beginning of the event you describe will be August 22, 2027.


    Obviously, I may be wrong.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Oops, I must have "22" on the brain. The date of the eclipse is Aug. 2, 2027, not Aug. 22nd.
     

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