My thesis on the Animistic Reincarnation Beliefs throughout the world

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by Spirit Infinity, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi, I'm seeking to expand upon my current catalog of Southeast Asian Animists who honor beliefs in reincarnation, (especially those peoples who had maintained beliefs in rebirth prior to the introduction of Hindu and Buddhism). I've found some evidence that (certain Phii spiritualists) hold Non-Buddhist reincarnation beliefs; however, Wikipedia and various other sources seem to ignorantly attribute any such intimation to Buddhist influences over their original animistic belief systems.

    Considering that many animistic belief systems throughout Australia, Africa, North America, South America, Indonesia, the South Pacific Islands, Siberia, and Ancient Europe held tribal reincarnation beliefs (independently of either the Hindu or Buddhist philosophies); why would wouldn't various Southeast Asian Mainland peoples have traditionally honored reincarnation beliefs of Non-Buddhist/ Non-Hindu origins?

    The Hmong and Karen peoples of the Southeast Asian Mainland are two magnificent examples of animistic belief systems in which honor beliefs in rebirth. I have found rare material, thus contrary to popular occidental supposition, which strongly indicates tribal Phii beliefs in reincarnation. There is LOTS of misinformation out there which fervidly insists that the Phii spiritualists had inherited their reincarnation beliefs from Buddhism; however, I wish to refute this parochial assertion.

    Here is my worldly reincarnation thesis, the aim of which is to prove that the belief in reincarnation was more ubiquitously widespread throughout the world than people are aware of. It is ignorant misinformation to insist that Buddhism and Hindu were the sources from when the rebirth doctrine was derived! For instance, the philosophies of neither Buddhism nor Hindu were disseminated to any notable degree throughout Africa, Australia and North America; yet there are vast numbers of Animistic belief systems throughout those continents in which have honored the belief in reincarnation prior to the spread of Hindu or Buddhism to those provincial regions. This indicates a pattern which observes the fact that reincarnation has been literally recognized as a valid phenomenon within the human psychic, not a fabrication of superstition which originated from Hindu or Buddhism. We must repudiate the ignorantly conjectural notion in which ascertains such undue credit unto the Buddhist and Hindu Theosophies.

    Moreover, I need to expand upon my North American compilation of tribes which honored beliefs in rebirth, particularly those who had emphasized rebirth as a human being, not so much as rebirth in animal form.

    I'm open to constructive criticism... Please assist me in expanding upon present reincarnation thesis:

    It is thus:

    Chapter 555 Reincarnation and other Vehicle-Transference phenomena –VANGUARD:
    5.1:
    WORLDLY REINCARNATION-BELIEFS, esp. concerning rebirth in human form:

    · Southeast-Asian Mainland Religions, excluding Southern China, Korea and Indonesia:
    1. Orthodox Theravada Buddhism.
    2. Orthodox Hindu (rare within the mainland).
    3. Animistic Folk-Religions which hold rebirth beliefs of Non-Buddhist and Non-Hindu origins.
    4. Animistic Folk-Religions which have infused with Buddhism and or Hindu.
    5. Other religious infusions: Buddhism, Hindu, Taoism, Confucism, certain Folk-Religions, Christianity, and Judaism.

    · Animistic Folk-Religions of the Southeast-Asian Mainland and rebirth in human form:
    o Myanmar: The Great Karen/ Kayin/ Kariang/ Yang Folk-Religion; and possibly others.
    o Thailand: The Hmong, Lu-Mién, Karen, and yet other traditional Folk-Faiths: See below:
    Ø Hindu & Buddhist infused Phii Folk-Faiths of Thailand & other Southeast Asian Mainland provinces.
    Ø Possible evidence that various Phii Folk-Religions held Pre-Buddhist and Pre-Hindu rebirth beliefs!
    o Vietnam: Hmong, Lu-Mién, Giáy, Ơ-Đu, Ede, Hao, and Yi/ Lolo Folk-Religions, and possibly others.
    § Tam-Gao and Cao Dai: Vietnamese Religious infusions.
    o Malaysia: The Dayak-Iban, and the Ma’Betisék folk-religions, and maybe others.
    o Burma: Karen Folk-Religion; and possibly others.
    o Laos: Hmong-Lao and Lu-Mién Folk-Religions; and perhaps others.

    Ø *An attempt to distinguish which Southeast Asian Folk-Religions had perhaps originally honored genuine reincarnation beliefs, prior to marrying with imported Buddhism and or Hindu; and what if Westerners ignorantly propound upon the biased, understudied supposition that introduced Buddhist and Hindu influences were solely responsible for having inspired reincarnation beliefs amongst peoples of the various Southeast Asian folk-religions? Buddhism is given too much undue credit: Considering that the Animistic Folk-Religions throughout Australia, Africa, North America, and ancient Celtic Western Europe had once ubiquitously honored reincarnation beliefs INDEPENDENTLY of Buddhist and Hindu influences; then why wouldn’t various Southeast Asian Mainland and Indonesia tribes have likewise honored beliefs in rebirth, thus prior to Buddhist and Hindu integration? This possibility has been pretentiously underwhelmed, carelessly overlooked by researchers of all casts.

    · Animistic Folk-Religions of the Indonesia and the South Pacific Isles; and rebirth in human form:
    o Borneo: Luwangans.
    o Bali: Bali-Aga and others; though many tribes have infused with Hindu: Possible Pre-Hindu beliefs.
    o Sumatra: Batak.
    o Sulawesi: Taraja.

    o Melanesia: The Trobriands; and the Korowai of New Guinea.
    o Polynesia: Maoris of New Zealand.

    Ø *Many other Indonesian and South Pacific Islander folk-religions have been excluded because they believe in implicitly animal-rebirth concepts only, and thusly rendering insufficient evidence that they honor any belief in reincarnation in human form.

    Ø *There are numerous Indonesian peoples who may have lost their Animistic Reincarnation Beliefs as the result of compulsory conversion to Islamism, and in some cases Catholicism; amidst ungodly oppression against the Native folk-religion spiritualists.

    Ø *Winnowing original ancestral reincarnation beliefs in which predate Hindu religious-infusion.

    Africa:
    · Animistic African Folk-Religion and rebirth in human form:
    o Western and Central: Yoruba, Nupe, (Igbo peoples: Ontisha, etc.), (Ewe peoples: The Anlo, and etc.), Esan, (the Bantu peoples in general), Congo-Kuba, Annang, Akan, Edo, Tellensi, Kugamma, and etc.
    o Southern: Illa, Chewa, Ekonda, (Luba, Hemba, etc.), (Bantu peoples, such as the Baganda), Bemba, Luo, Zulu, Lamba, the M’bhuti Pygmies, etc.; yet other tribes believe in only animal rebirth concepts.

    Australia:
    · Animistic Australian Folk-Religions and rebirth in human form:
    o The peoples of the six Arunta/ Aranda clans –who are the oldest Australian aborigines; and also the Kaitish, Eora / Dharawal and Warramunga Peoples; and others.

    Ancient Europe:
    · Animism in ancient European Folk-Religions, and reincarnation in human form:
    o Celtic Pagans: Definitive human rebirth beliefs among the Welsh, Cornish, Scottish, Irish and Bretonic
    o Possibilities for the Nordic tribes: Equivocal; and conflictive information regarding the Teutons.

    North America and South America:
    · Animistic N. American Folk-Religions and reincarnation in human form:
    o Alaskan: Eskimo/ Yup’ik, Yuit, Aluit, Caribou, Kwaikiutl, Na’dene, and very likely others.
    o Canadian: Tlingit, Gitsxan, Wyandot, Ojibway, Athabaskan, and likely others.
    o Great Lakes: Wyandot, (unclear about the neighboring tribes.)
    o Northeastern: Lenni-Lenape, and possibly others, (though records may have been obfuscated.)
    o Southeastern: Choctaw, Seminole… and equivocal info. about the Cherokee.
    o Central Plains: Teton-Lakota Sioux, Santee-Dakota Sioux (Eastern), Yankton-Nakota Sioux;
    o Central Plains cont.: Winnebago, the Mandan, and probably other regionally neighboring tribes, too.
    o Southwestern: The Hopi believe in rebirth in human form; however, many of the other Southwestern Tribes believe in only reincarnation concepts which portray merely rebirth in animal forms.
    o West Coastal: Chipewyan; though many of the other tribes believe in primarily rebirth as animals only
     
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  2. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hello Spirit Infinity,

    Welcome to the forum! Thank you for joining us. I find your work very interesting and look forward to your further contributions. I've often wondered about this topic, it seems you have done some extensive work.

    Blessings,
    ~Tman
     
  3. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Spirit Infinity,

    Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting such a comprehensive listing. I was aware that reincarnation appeared to be almost a default setting with indigenous cultures around the world, but I really appreciate your thoroughness in cataloging various cultures and their beliefs.

    I'm also curious about your research in another area that came up recently in another thread: the preponderance of intra-ethnic reincarnation in such cultures. I.e., their belief and/or experience is that they reincarnate within their tribe/ethnic group. This is something that seemed ubiquitous in Stevenson's research dealing with the Druse and numerous other similar cultures, and I had heard that it was also the case among American Indian tribes who believed in human reincarnation. But, I'd like to have the benefits of your thoughts/research on this topic.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  4. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It's a lot of work, Spirit Infinity!
    I've always been interested in this subject.
     
  5. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    This is the first time I have heard of this ...After an hour or so of checking around my first question is... is this a religion based on faith and something similar to trying too prove there is a god?.... or is it not a religion and based on facts?
     
  6. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    Though you seem unwilling to believe this, I am not aware of a single religion that doesn't claim to be based on facts. All religions, just like yours, claim to be founded on the actual true revelations/experiences of their founders and exponents. I am not aware of a single one that starts out trying to prove there is a god, though I suppose some might see creation narratives that way. You have these as well.

    From what I can tell, "proving there is a god" comes much later in the process as religions deal with unbelievers, and try to answer their questions and inquiries about a god or gods. You know what this is like, you are doing it all the time in regard to the gods of Ancient Egypt.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--It is also a tendency of all religions, like yours, to believe that they are the one and only true and factually based religion (though many don't completely deny some factual basis and merits in other religions as well).
     
  7. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S I was trying to get a handle on what thread is about .. because I have never heard of this before I was wondering what it was... You are right in the fact that I do believe the gods of Ancient Egypt are the only true gods.. which all other gods evolved from.. That is probably why I automatically think believers in other gods have something to prove about there god and/or should understand where there gods evolved from which I should not infer and talk about.. I understand that and I will watch what I say in the future.... But I'm still wondering what Animistic is

    Regards
     
  8. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    Animism seems to be one of the earliest forms of religion around the globe. I think the point "Spirit Infinity" is making with his first post, is that a belief in reincarnation also seems to be a part of "animistic" cultures around the world. That would make reincarnation the baseline (default) belief system of all or most all of the peoples on the planet before learning or being inculcated with a "more advanced" religion, such as belief in the god(s) of ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Israel, etc.

    Animism is defined by Wikipedia as:

    "Animism (from Latin anima, "breath, spirit, life")[1][2] is the religious belief that objects, places and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.[3][4][5][6] Potentially, animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, weather systems, human handiwork and perhaps even words—as animated and alive. Animism is the world's oldest religion, "Animism predates any form of organized religion and is said to contain the oldest spiritual and supernatural perspective in the world. It dates back to the Paleolithic Age, to a time when barbarian humans roamed the plains hunting and gathering, and communing with the Spirit of Nature."[7]

    Animism is used in the anthropology of religion as a term for the belief system of many indigenous peoples,[8] especially in contrast to the relatively more recent development of organised religions.[9] Although each culture has its own different mythologies and rituals, "animism" is said to describe the most common, foundational thread of indigenous peoples' "spiritual" or "supernatural" perspectives. The animistic perspective is so widely held and inherent to most indigenous peoples that they often do not even have a word in their languages that corresponds to "animism" (or even "religion")"


    Of course, Wikipedia is merely setting forth the modern scholarly position on the nature of Animism and its position as the earliest religion in the world, etc. You are free to disagree. However, animism does certainly seem to be very ancient and also to be wide-spread among indigenous tribal cultures world-wide. So, there is definitely some argument to be made on this point, though there may also be exceptions.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  9. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I appreciate your work Spirit Infinity, I don't know how much depth you intend to add to breadth of your work, but you seem to have at least mentioned cultures all over the globe. The only one no mentioned that I thought of immediately was Hawaii as John Michener's book still reverberates inside of me at times, that adds to my negative feelings about a lot of religions. There also seems to be a lack of coverage in South America, particularly Peru, Bolivia and even Central America.

    I'd personally love to hear about anything you could turn up on the pre-Inca, but my interest in them is beyond religious and beliefs.
     
  10. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S..I want to ask you something ... as you know I don't read books or research other peoples beliefs almost everything I talk about comes from my own experiences.. Can you recall some of things I have talked about over a long period of time about the return of the mothers of the Ancient Egyptian gods and how there are many thousands of powerful spirits from Ancient Egypt wanting to incarnate back to earth but there is no place for them to incarnate back to.. Ancient Egypt is gone...it no longer exists.. As you know BB my spiritual self's purpose next time is to end chaos and establish a safe place for the mothers of the gods to return to... which will be the beginnings of establishing the gods of Ancient Egypt once again on earth... then the thousands of spirits from Ancient Egypt will have a place to return to on earth..As you know I have talked about these things many times over the years..As you also know this is only a very brief summary of what I have talked about over the years.. My question is ... is this Animistic?...If it is then it may prove unless spirits who have strong connections to a place and/or religion in the physical.. but no longer have a home... a place to return to in the physical... where they can once again be who they are in the physical....choose or are forced to stay in the spiritual

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  11. Guillaume_D

    Guillaume_D Member

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    Very interesting, Spirit Infinity ! I can't help you, but I applause your work. I didn't know that beliefs in reincarnation were world-spread like this. So if we extrapolate, can we say that belief in reincarnation was predominant all around the world before the main present religions appeared ?
     
  12. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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  13. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    My sincere apologies for the untimely response! I've been exceedingly... Sometimes it takes me a week or more to reply to my internet correspondences.

    Anyway, I resolutely appreciate your warm welcome and compliments. Thank you! There is still yet so much more work to be done on the subject of preserving the vestiges of the Animistic Folk-Religions around the world, especially with regards to extricating any proof of such records of reincarnation beliefs in which have survived the many Christian and Islamic inquisitions; and their thwarting attempts of obfuscating definitions and connotations, oppressing customary beliefs, downplaying, and re-writing history, so as to fabricate an inverted sense of reality in which accommodates solely unto their own parochial (narrow) propaganda. Both Christianity and Islam have incited such infamous tendencies of coercing, surreptitiously cheating, insidiously deceiving, and committing massive genocide in order to promulgate their embellished dogmas throughout the world, thereby breaking the sacred-hoop of the once great peoples who they have so apathetically conquered and enslaved; any religion in which so stolidly asserts to be prepossessing of the one and only truth, thus condemning all other spiritual belief systems as heresies, should be viewed with suspicion. Christianity and Islam became artifices of worldly dominion and governmental control; the beast hiding behind the truth, thus furtively distorting what truly was and is. The conquests Roman Empire led to the breaking of the sacred hoop; as, in clandestine, Rome prevailed at subversively maintaining its authority through the Roman Catholic Vatican as its expedient, hence spawning the Dark Ages of Western Europe. Through the governmental structure of the Vatican, and later through the artifice of the Protestant British Empire, the oppressive virus of Dark-Age Europe was spread throughout the globe, infecting all of those peoples with whom its conquests had so phlegmatically afflicted with repression. Burn the tribal medicine women and medicine men and tribal spiritualists, i.e., (the pagan heretics and witches), in the name of Christ! God is love! ; And may the remembrance of your customs and spiritual philosophies die with your pagan forefathers, for history shall not remember you! What!? You believe in such heresies as reincarnation? We'll arbitrarily fail to even take note of that in our re-writing of history, and we shall thus alter the definitions and connotations of what you were actually explicating.

    Moreover, I agree with various Gnostic Christian cults; however, it is "the mythology and philosophy" of "Mainstream Christianity" in which I utterly reject. Its positive attributes can be observed in virtually all other religions, and within each if ourselves, so we don't require "Mainstream Christianity" to reinforce such sacred knowledge.

    The acolytes of Buddhism, in their obsession with attaining liberation from the reincarnation cycle entirely, have in many cases apathetically failed to record the evidence of tribal reincarnation beliefs; as Buddhists view reincarnation as a distraction, condemning the emphasis in which the Animistic Folk-Religions had placed upon the importance of reincarnation. In my supposition, I surmise that the Orthodox Buddhists who had imported Buddhist Philosophy to the various provinces of the Southeast Asian Mainland had very likely perceived themselves as promoting the teachings of the Buddha by arbitrarily failing to produce records pertaining to the indigenous Animistic Folk-Religion related beliefs concerning rebirth; for, again, reincarnation was merely a frivolous distraction from Dharma. In my research, I've learned that the early Buddhist monks had encountered conflict with the vehemence in which the local Animists had placed upon their philosophies surmounting metempsychosis: Such importance had to be greatly downplayed, and that is exactly what was done. Reiterated, the Buddhist Missionaries did not place very much importance upon keeping such records. Thanks guys! Those historic records would have really assisted "our movement" in redeeming the validity of reincarnation as a ubiquitous belief throughout the world, thus in combating the widespread misinformation in which the Mainstream Christian and Islamic Churches have disseminated in their surreptitious embellishment of history!

    My intentions were not to digress from the topic of Animistic Reincarnation Beliefs, so please pardon me if it seems as if I have done so.
     
  14. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi Sea and Sky! Your polite complement is very much appreciated! Thank you! Yes, I concur with the notion that the belief in reincarnation could essentially be perceived as among the default concepts of Animistic Spiritualism throughout the world. I find it immensely intriguing that so many different ethnic groups have so deeply resonated with the rebirth doctrine in general.

    Ian Stevenson's work was profoundly insightful! Yes, I have personally discerned that among the African, Native American, Southeast Asian, Australian Animists, not to mention with regards to such Religious sects as the Druse, too. Stevenson made similar observations in his research; however, he also studied cases where the subject reincarnated outside of his or her former bloodline, or in other common cases, (simply within their own tribal affiliation), not necessarily through the same bloodline. Personally, I believe that it is perhaps more common for a post-death spirit to reincarnate within specific bloodlines, family associations, or, in some cases, merely within one's own tribe; HOWEVER, this isn't always the case. We are not strictly bound to being reborn into ONLY our present bloodline. It is my perception that our associations with "over-soul kindred" may have some bearing upon one's tendency to reincarnate within parameters of specific criteria; yet there are ALWAYS exceptions.

    Kind Regards,
    David
     
  15. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi Fire-Fly-Dancing! Thanks for your reply... Yes, lucubrating upon this vastly in-depth subject has proved to be exceedingly demanding. In fact, I have refused offers for publication for the sole reason that I haven't yet attained my goal. This task has been formidably overwhelming! I want to publish the most accurate information in which I can possibly expound upon, and there is yet so much more research to be accomplished; if only I had the time and resources to travel abroad and conduct anthropological research among the Southeast Asian Mainland peoples, and etc; hence the key to my thesis.

    Blessings,
    David
     
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  16. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi Ken! Thank you fro expressing your appreciation for my work! I only posted a sample from my table of contents, as the research is much more in-depth than what I have shared through this thread.

    You mention the subject of Hawaii... Thus far, I have encountered conflict encompassing the information I have read about the Native Hawaiian peoples and rebirth concepts. Perhaps you could better enlighten me concerning the perceptively equivocal information in which I have been confronted with pertaining to Native Hawaiian philosophy/ philosophies? I would be immensely appreciative.

    Oh, with regards to the South American tribes who honor beliefs in rebirth, I had exceeded the maximum word limit for posting this thread, so a portion of what I had originally intended to post was cut-off.
    I'm quite inclined to believe that the ancient Incas had maintained a belief in reincarnation, not to mention various Amazonian tribes such as among the Rikbaktsa and the Tukano peoples.

    In Central America, the Spanish/ Catholic Inquisition had abolished much of the evidence in which the Mesoamerican tribes had held concerning reincarnation. However, the Nahua people believed in being reborn in human as well as animal incarnation; and the Mazatecs believed in rebirth in animal incarnation, but I haven't been able to discern any evidence that the Mazatecs had ever believed in re-incarnating as a human. Anyway, I'm quite impressed with the Nahua/ Nahuatl people.

    Unfortunately, I've discovered equivocally conflictive information concerning both the Aztecs and the Mayans. It appears that they may have held a belief that ONLY royalty reincarnate into the same royal bloodlines, with no indication of any evidence that they believed the common people could reincarnation. Further reasearch into the Mesoamerican cultures is required before I can come to a definitive conclusion about either Aztecs or the Mayans. Some scholars straight forwardly DENY any notion that the Aztecs and Mayans believed in reincarnation. This confusion might also be resultant of the Catholic Inquisition, who knows? History was lost; and Animistic knowledge was forgotten. Converts to the Christian Religion seem to pridefully merit themselves in obviating their children from becoming enlightened the vestiges of "their pagan" ancestors. It is in this way that the light of ancient knowledge is gradually quelled into utter darkness.

    Thanks again,
    David
     
  17. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi Guillaume, I'm immensely appreciative of your compliments and intrigue with my contribution. THANK YOU! Well, I confidently profess that the belief in reincarnation is much more ubiquitously existential among the peoples of the world than we have been led believe.

    Blessings,
    David
     
  18. Spirit Infinity

    Spirit Infinity New Member

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    Hi John, thanks for your reply... What you mentioned about the Egyptian Faith kind of reminds me of Jordan Maxwell's studies in which reveal a correlative narrative between many of the major Religions, the ancient Egyptian Faith being among them:



    Blessings,
    David
     

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