Nature versus nurture

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jim78, Nov 1, 2018.

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Are we mostly nature or mostly nurture or a mixture of both?

  1. Nurture

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  2. Nature

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Mixture

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Speedwell, I like your description of childhood having a very light touch. When I was small, life was simpler and kids still had innocence. My childhood was quite idyllic, and I'm sad for children who've never known that lightness. I was called 'the dreamer' by schoolmates and their parents. I've said before that I had decades of pushing my pl memories away, but looking back, I realise that I was staring into space and seeing things which were not from the present. I just didn't put a name to them at the time. I have a picture of myself in the back of my parents' car, looking out of the window on to grass banks whizzing by, and using that as a kind of aid to get into the semi-hypnotic state where I could see other images. Only just remembered that. I never saw all the beautiful scenery passing! That wasn't nurture, it was nature, already there inside me.
     
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  2. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi fireflydancing. What were the the conclusions drawn about identical twins raised apart?

    There are much similarities between my current life and my last one. They are both Irish. Both from a country area. Both were based in Dublin etc...

    I still think that my nature prevailed though. I had a harder upbringing with less family support in my current life than my last one. It took me longer to sort my life out...yet I still ended up as basically the same person.
     
  3. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi Speedwell and tanker.

    I had a very hard childhood in which I was in conflict with pious yet abusive teachers and a headmaster not to mention psychological abuse from a sociopath. I was also bullied at school. As I became an older child I realised I had to be even more ruthless than my bullies and authority figures. I fought my way through school while gaining firsthand experience of the hypocrisy of State and Church. I didn't know not to fight it. The rest of my family weren't into conflict really so I guess it was my nature shining through at a young age.

    I remember watching the film Song For A Raggy Boy and crying. I thought about how lucky I was to have been born in later Catholic Ireland. A rebellious soul like me would have surely died during an earlier decade. The punches, abuses etc I took from teachers was nothing compared to what earlier generations suffered.

    Reincarnation made me realise that my nature is what manifested hardships in my lives all along.
     
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  4. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The most interesting for me was this:
    So called IQ-scores are not objective data, as people like to assume.

    Identical twins (without brain injuries and so on) are supposed to have an identical Intelligence as well. They share the same genes.
    So, sometimes one twin ended up in a priviliged home and family with excellent education, while the other twin grew up in an environment without intellectual challenges.
    According to the ‘nurture’ branch of social scientists, there should not show up a significant difference between the IQ results of both twins. But it did!!

    Well, at school we were supposed to discuss what caused that significant difference. Maybe our tool was biased, maybe our definition of Intelligence should be altered, maybe Intelligence is not that package you got at birth, but part nature, part nurture.
     
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  5. AlexD

    AlexD aka Shadow

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    What if cognitive abilities are somehow influenced by the soul though? The soul would be different in each twin. From my experience, we do carry some acquired skills with us from life to life. Perhaps it could be a possibility.
     
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  6. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    In order to test this, rather than looking at twins brought up separately, it would be those brought up together and treated similarly.

    On an anecdotal level, I remember two lads in my class at school, identical twins. It was frustrating for them, and embarrassing for the rest of us, that we couldn't tell them apart. After a while, I learned to tell one from the other, there were slight visual differences. In addition, one was quite serious, the other more of a clown. I became friends with one, but only a passing acquaintance of the other.
     
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  7. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Yes, Speedwell, your comment made me wonder about testing siamese twins, as their nurture would be identical, but it seems they can have different personalities.
     
  8. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Usually, the personality of identical twins is more alike when they were brought up apart from each other.
    When they are raised together they tend to compete for attention and therefore take complementary roles.
     
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  9. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi fireflydancing.

    How is two twins having identical IQs indicative of nurture? Surely them having different IQs growing up different environments would indicate nurture?

    Also I couldn't speak properly until I was five. They thought I had a disability until they realised I'd a high IQ. That doesn't seem to have been down to nurture, my siblings learned speaking English at a faster rate than me after all. It seems my brain was nature.
     
  10. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hi Jim,

    IQ is often considered part of nature, part of your genes.

    Social science studies found indications that culture, education and family do play a role in one’s IQ scores. The best way to test this is with identical twins (identical genes) who were raised in different circumstances.

    Your own experiences as Jim are not relevant for these studies, because you are not part of a identical twin and the studies work with statistics.

    Apart from this,
    Part of my work is also testing people non verbally. My students come from all over the world. It’s a test for learning abillities. Sometimes people with NO education at all (including no elementary school) have the same score as graduates from university. While on the other hand, people from some areas in Africa usualy get the lowest score, despite education and intelligence. Somehow they don’t understand the tasks and riddles they have to solve. It’s a cultural thing. So, that’s a good reminder that there are no valid general tools to measure a thing called Intelligence. All tools (read: tests) are culturally biased. Even if they are non verbal.
     
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  11. AlexD

    AlexD aka Shadow

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    Hi firefly, just wanted to ask you if you mean that intelligence (as in IQ) is actually influenced by both DNA and culture?
    That's if we consider DNA as nature, which actually is to an extent, but what if we consider the soul as part of nature: that would technically be a factor separated from DNA. That is, if we admit that a soul can carry on particular characteristics from one life to another, obviously.
     
  12. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Yea fireflydancing. But I don't understand how someone expecting nurture to play a significant role would expect separated twins to be the same? Surely they would expect them to be different if nurtured differently.

    Also, if studies found that separated twins develop more similar personalities than twins who grew up in the same family then how come one would have a higher IQ than the other and that wouldn't be considered different? Also if intelligence is culturally based anyway, would the point matter since its just subjective interpretation?

    I just don't see that twins can prove anything, unless one can gain knowledge about why two different souls manifest similar personalities from a reincarnation standpoint. What's their life purpose in being twins?

    Besides separated twins being similar would indicate nature.
     
  13. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    One other factor which should be taken into account in twin studies is the impact of telepathy. For example one twin might decide to grow a beard. The other might pick up on this and echo it with a thought, "I wonder what I'd look like with a beard". Separating independent, original thought from those shared telepathically might be very difficult. Particularly if it is deemed impossible and not even taken into consideration.
     
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