PL Dreams and Interpretation

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by mara, Jun 20, 2007.

  1. mara

    mara New Member

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    The threated thread ;) about PL dreams and interpretation, thank you Karoliina :thumbsup: hope I have choosen the right section .


    I wasn´t attracted by vikings and had only vague knowledge about them before I had this dream with the viking and the wagon as his grave good . I connected vikings with ships and was quiet surprised when I woke up.
    I have got several very short PL dreams with unsuspected elements or informations but those never have surreal elements and they are always connected with a inner knowledge about their validity.
    I have also longer dreams with elements of PL which are sometimes not easy to interpret and sometimes I am too lazy for it :tongue:
    For me I prefer to analyse my dreams in the way Edgar Cayce suggested. There are several books from him available about that subject, instructions about PL-dreams too.
    I have read a lot of C.G. Jung, about symbolism, psyche, psychoanalysis and so on, have also gone through a psychoanalysis myself but that is not my way although I became known to symbolism well ;)
    In my opinion, having a PL dream invites to a analysis of it. If I don´t react on this information I am quiete stupid for those informations have a concrete reference to my life. Needless to say, that sometimes I am stupid :D It is like having a amazing, very useful new tool and not to work with it. Many years ago I have often used symbolism to decompose a (PL) dream, have list all found items and spended a lot of time watching them proudly with no consequence for my life.
    Nowadays I watch and study my (PL) dreams carefully and the more I do so, the more new information, clarity and understanding I get.
     
  2. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    HI Mara and Skarphedinn,


    Sabine Lucas Ph.D - who studied under Jung states there are three types of past life dreams: The classical type, the informatory type and the hybrid type. She states that it is the informatory type that suggests that the eighth chakra is open.


    The classical is realistic and factual - having the deja vue feeling of half conscious memories. Often in a different century and culture and the dreamer is present as an observer of the scene.


    The informatory is devoid of images and action. The dreamer is directly informed and simply knows that he was, for example an American Indian in 1875 and killed in a battle.


    The hybrid type, which is the most common one can be easily missed. The reason is because it combines realistic and symbolic elements. The criteria for determining if it is past life related is the presence or absence of realistic and personalized elements. This is because past life material is personal, while archetypal material is universal and numinous.


    I hope this helps :)
     
  3. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    Hi Deborah and Mara,


    I am extremely grateful for this interesting thread!


    It was pleasure to read it and add my thoughts to it. I am interested in these Cayce-style interpretations. I have only heard about the author, but I am not very much into his method. Anyway, I believe that past life dreams, even if they are verifiably true, can be interpreted symbolically as well, for I don't think it is a coidence that you saw it/them in a certain period of your life. Dreams have functions, as well as present life memories can help a lot when one is facing a problem.


    I am especially interested in these hybrid types of dreams. I simply cannot imagine how one can filter the once happened facts and how he separates them from the numinous content. Jung told us a story from the time he was in America, he met an uneducated black man, who had a dream about a man, tied to a wheel, and Jung instantly identified it as the myth of Ixion, who was punished by the gods this way. The dreamer couldn't have access to information about Greek mythology. But what if a picture like this occurs in a historical context? Or - to make situation even more complicated - different historical contexts occur mixed up with each other? Should they be sorted out rationally, or we get some mystical help? Should one identify them as scenes from previous lives? I have asked myself these questions, and I still haven't found a plausible answer for them.


    Your dream, Mara, is relatively clear, for you weren't either interested in or well informed about vikings, and a new momentum - the grave-good waggon turned up. I believe I could identify a pure PL dream with those criteria I have already read in this forum, but I have to admit, I haven't had any. I write down most of my dreams and interpret them according to my best knowledge, to be more informed on my (or collective) unconscious, so I shall concentrate more on the historical facts, and check all of them very carefully, but the method seems to me like gold digging, where one moves an entire hill just to find a few chips of gold if he's lucky enough.


    Skarphedinn
     
  4. mara

    mara New Member

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    Hi Deborah


    My dreams seemed not to fit in Sabine Lucas PL dream-types :D


    Devoid of images means without images as my dictionary says?


    My short PL dreams are with extraordinary clear images, often with names, dates and with special explanations. I observe the action/images or act or do both. I haven´t déjà-vue feelings there.


    Those dreams are similar to visions which I have sometimes. In on of my visions for example there was shown a calendar with year dates which were blown away, then a inner voice told me that I was born in the year 17.. as .... (female name) and simultaneous I saw me dressed in a preciously robe. The only difference between my PL dreams and my visions is that in dreams I do not react immediatelly about the information and the visions could last longer - if I don´t get scared :(


    I get visions some rare times when I am totally relaxed, they just happen suddenly. In both cases my consciousness is enlarged, in visions more and there I am able to steer a bit, alike a lucid dream.


    My longer dreams could be for example like this: I saw me as a native Indian in a desert landscape in search of her son. Suddendly she/I saw some today-carpenters, making a studding. They stop me but one of them let me go. I think it was a link to a companion I had in my actual life for he and some acquaintance worked as carpenters. I never told him my dream but this guy had had a dream some months later in which he was hung in the wild West.


    It is very difficult for me to explain this for I often do not find the right words in english.


    Skarphedinn,


    the story of Jung reminds me on execution -breaking on the wheel - which was a commen for centuries and one of the most painful tortures one can image. When the convict was unlucky, it happend about that way with some regional and temporal differences: the hangman brokes with a heavy wheel legs, arms and spine and tied then the alive! victim on the wheel on the top of a bar where he died after days. Don´t think about the ravens. When he was lucky or the hangman corrupted, the executioner killed him during the breaking the spine or garroted him.


    I think it is not necessary to produce evidence about PL memories for this could be so afflicting and depressing when without result. Naturally it is great, to have real facts to deal with but I have read different books written from therapists which work with regression and they say that even if the patient doesn´t believe in reincarnation or maybe all is pure imagination healing happens. :)


    I highly recommend you to read something about Cayce- for me his work was and is very valuable.
     
  5. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    Rational and intuitive approach


    Hail Mara, you have written about interesting things, now I try to focus to the remark that it is not necessary verifying visions and memories. For me reincarnation is a new approach to the question of life and death, and I am sceptic towards everything new. I have to harmonise these facts with my already existing world view, and this needs a lot of mental work, I cannot simply get satisfied with mere belief. For me scepticism doesn't mean denying new and different ways of thinking, but I have to examine everything very carefully to make sense.


    By the way I am surrounded with quite a lot of materialistic minded people, and even myself used to be a materialist for many years. The "change of paradigm" started seven years ago, when I had a trip to the Castle of Chinon and saw a permanent exhibition on Joan of Arc. This fact really made me enthusiastic and motivated me to get more information about Joan. I did so, and I faced the strange fact one can get valuable information from non-rational sources, as she did from Saint Catherine. This didn't fit my previous view, but was verifiable, as Joan got her army finally, and swept the English from under the walls of Orléans, exactly as Saint Catherine promised her. And there were plenty of other documented cases in her story.


    Half a year later I read a book on Joan, and there were some pages from Jung's 'Personality types', by chance and totally irrelevantly. Jung himself would have said it was syncronicity; I continued with reading The philosophers' tree, where he dealt with alchemy, then I read all the other works of Jung available that year - which took about one quarter of the GW.


    As you can see, it is not evident for me that there are other ways of cognition than the widely accepted one by experience and thinking, which is the only accepted way by the more material branches of modern science (I think of psychology, first of all).


    Well, the dreamer could have dreamt about this brutal way of execution, Jung didn't have questions about that. Even if Jung believed in reincarnation, even if he had held this an explanation to the phenomenon he experienced, theories of collective unconscious and archetypes seemed much more important to him.


    By the way - if we are talking about Joan and Catherine - Saint Catherine was also planned to be executed with a wheel, although in a different way, but the legend has it, Saint Michael intervened by smashing the wheel, killing the executioner by a fragment of the wheel, which also woulded many from amongst the soldiers standing by. :D It is not verifiable, it doesn't even need to be so, but it is a nice story, and still can be analysed in a Jungian way, and can be enjoyed without explanation either.


    Skarphedinn
     
  6. mara

    mara New Member

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    Hi Skarphedinn


    I think it is very important to prove ones sight of the world from time to time for we all tend to be blunted by habit.


    From the first time on I read about reincarnation , I was ca 18, I had no doubt about it- it was absolutely logical for me in contrast to the sight of world I was grown up, so I started to read all about esoterism I could get. Like in all field of knowledge not all that glitters is gold but digging could mine treasures. Ken Wilber´s books for example could be a great help for you when you are very sceptical and prefer more scientifically literature.


    For me I would say, I don´t just believe in reincarnation, I know it because I have gained such experience in states of enlarged consciousness which makes it much more easier. I have got my first PL information in such a state- this was so overwhelming that I needed no more demonstration for the verity of reincarnation. But if I had only my PL dreams, it would be much harder for me to overcome the inner censor in the dark hours of my life.


    I have done recently some short online research for a few PL dreams with less success, after that I felt so terribly down that I decided dispirited to give up ( I was in search for a special loire castle but I didn´t found it, started another research for more background information of a special french tomb, same result and so on...) This is one of the most arduous things to accept, longing for more information and not getting it :(
     
  7. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    Morality and reincarnation


    Your story is getting more and more interesting. I mean about extended states of consciousness. I have never experienced it, just read and consulted about the matter. First time in Revolution of consciousness as I have already told it to Deborah.


    As I have experienced, unlike the scientific one, mystical approach requires a high standard of morality. This is the point of all. One who chooses this way has to apply it in everyday life. I have seen, reincarnation is an excellent way to explain reason why one shold behave morally and may give a better long-term orientation, but if someone understands it as an external force which punishes, he'll miss the point. Morality has to be an autotelic experience, done for itself to make life enjoyable. It is well described - though through different examples - in the book titled Flow by Csíkszentmihályi.


    Science is a different issue: it can be used and abused and the person doing it can still be an excellent scientist. It is morally sterile, it is just the metod, it doesn't interfere with moral parts.


    We have talked a lot about the change of paradigm, and why materialists are like what they are like. The reason is because by scientific methods one can remain an outsider without moral consideration. (There are many other reasons, of course.)


    Sorry, this is a completely different topic you originally started, but I have been having these thought and it is good to share them.


    So, can you provide me with more information about the French tomb in the Loire Valley? I don't guarantee anything, but I might have heard about that. Especially if it is connected to the medieval times. What culture are you living in now? Do you like it more than the previous ones?


    Skarphedinn
     
  8. mara

    mara New Member

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    Skarphedinn


    Great topic and you gave a great explanation :thumbsup: Funny that you post this today- we discussed this theme today, I saw a documentary film about brain research on Arte. In this the scientist told about his work and search on a chemical substanc that could be given to patients or soldiers with traumas and the medicament should erasure the trauma complete and make soldiers without fear. He demonstrated his work with rats that had implated wires and so on in their head and he says that he now will test it on monkeys for some years. We wondered how someone can do this to animals on one side and on the other go home and hug his lapdog. My friend said that it tooks for sure many lifes for to develope real compassion with other creatures. She also said that one has to adept heavy pain oneself before one can feel the pain of others. Discussing this we were waiting for the vet to euthanize a very, very bad injured cat- she looked so trustingly and purred while we kneeled at her side. The vet who was also concerned of the heavy insuries crossed his hands like a prayer after having given the cat the redemptory syringe, said nothing for a while, then he said "now she is in cat´s heaven" and thanked us for letting her go.


    In this life I was born in Bavaria and now I live in the north of Germany.


    The french tomb is not in the Loire Valley, this is another PL.


    I mean this tomb


    http://www.galerie.roi-president.com/photo-24-52-louvre+sculpture+fran%E7aise+xiv-xviiieme+siecles.html


    I have helt the carved and unpainted miniature made of bright limewood in my hand and I was told that this was the model of the tomb of Philip Pot.


    My reseach was about miniatures and carvers in MA, but I didn´t found anything about that. I have done my research in German and today, I decided to work not so long as usual and googled for the link of the tomb.


    I went on a English link and there I read something about Philip Pot and suddendly it pulled the rug out from under me. I have read some years ago that he was "Haushofmeister" which I thought was a sort of concierge :eek: and wondered why a concierge has such a tomb :tongue:


    Reading that he was a knight was a sort of emotional trigger for me and it tooks several hours to calm me down and writing this it just starts all again so I will end for today.
     
  9. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    I have seen your link to Philippe. Was this person you or someone in your company you are especially close to. What does it mean to you that he was a knight?


    Ha was born in 1428, so he was no older than 3 when Joan of Arc died, and he might have taken part in the Hundred years' war - on the "enemy side" - or at least in the party opposing Joan and the Armagnacs.


    Therefore you are also interested in the same age and culture as me - the French-related 15th century. I am eager to know more on the matter.


    Skarphedinn
     
  10. mara

    mara New Member

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    I am not absolutely sure who I was but I feel very, very close to him.


    I love the time from gothik till baroque and I love France, especially the regions of Burgundy, Loire and Alsace-Lorraine. Visiting France makes me feel home and I urge to buy an old house there as soon I can afford it.


    Several of my PL dreams and flashes are about knights and suddendly all makes sense, including some PL memories from earlier lifes. Some of those people from that time I have met/recognized again in this life.


    Having been a carver in later time my previous search was about minitatures and carvers. As a child of 6 years I was fascinated for many years of the statues in a dilapidated chapel I was once allowed to get a sight on them.

    It was a shock for me- not only emotional, my body felt for two days as if I had had an accident. Even my heaviest riding accident hasn´t achived this shock effect.


    Now I feel changed, as if I have integrated/retrieved some lost parts of me. Even some "normal" symbol dreams I had for years became sense.


    Some days ago I have had a dream in which I saw my faces from dozens of incarnations in close succession and another in which I was told about my destiny in my next life and what I have to complete in this life for in my next there is no time for it :D


    For a long time I have had heavy problems with my life and all I wanted was to bring it to a end (of course to die a natural death : angel - then I had a dream in which I was told that I will die because I was longing so for it- I never allowed me furthermore such thoughts) . Not that I prefered to live in another time, for nowadays, living in the "first world" is really great , we have all possibilities and so much freedom, I am very gracefully for all and just starting the automatic dishwasher makes me happy :)


    I haven´t seen much sense in my life, only getting rid of bad karma. Since a little while I can see much more, a continuity, a higher plan and this gives me a marvellous peace and also incentive to go on audaciously.
     
  11. Lila P

    Lila P Member

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    Hello friends.


    I also checked out mara´s link at you´ve got my attention.


    Quite recently I lived in France, and to be exact in Burgundy. I had long suspected that I was an English countess Anne Beuachamp during the Wars of the Roses, but I was quite confused when I visited a local museum and saw the portrait of Charles the Bold (Charles Téméraire) in there. I instantly got this feeling that I´ve known him and probably have been in love with him. Much later I found out, that the Countess, who I think I was, must have known Charles. He was practically a pretty close relative through marriage.


    This countess has also a connection to Joan of Arc, although she was only a child when Joan was burnt at stakes. However, Richard Beauchamp, who I think was my father back then, was a member of the English jury who sent Joan to her death in Rouen.


    During the past few days the name of Charles the Bold has jumped in to my face so often, that I obviously have to do more research on that.
     
  12. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    'Soldiers fight and God gives them victory.'


    What a great delight having such a pleasant topic! You are not only enthusiastic about the end of Hundred years war, but are well oriented as well!


    A few years ago I have read dozens of books about this exact historical period. True, the French-Armagnac side has always been closer to me, together with The Maid. I have just learnt that Talbot was Richard Beauchamp's son-in-law. I have to admit, I have not read sources dealing with the English-Burgundian side in details. Of course I got interested in the story of Anne Beauchamp as well, but I try focusing to the English-French relations.


    Actually Beauchamp was not member of the jury condemning Joan to death - it consisted entirely of ecclestical people, but Beauchamp did make pressure upon the jury, as it was corrupted from the beginning.


    I am eager to hear more about these historical figures!


    Skarphedinn
     
  13. Lila P

    Lila P Member

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    Skarphedinn, you obviously mean this gentleman:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Talbot%2C_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury


    I haven´t done much research about Anne Beauchamps half-sisters, but I have to say that I´m really greatful when somebody points out new information about my family back then. I get a larger perspective about my life this way.


    So John Talbot was married to Anne´s half-sister Margaret.


    Anne Beauchamp was eventually the heiress of her parents´estates and she became the Countess of Warwick. She was married to Richard Neville, who got the title of Earl of Warwick through his wife.


    Richard Neville was an important figure when Henry VI was deposed from the English throne and replaced by Edward IV, who was his cousin. Of course, these are later events and I´m not sure if you are interested in the Wars of the Roses.


    Do you think that you´ve had a PL or several PLs during this historical period?


    And mara, I´m also very interested in the life of Philippe Pot. If you have vivid memories of him, you could start a new thread about him.
     
  14. mara

    mara New Member

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    In another dream years ago I saw a renaissance bed and a large marqueterie wardrobe, properties of König Karl. The furniture had something to do with the German town Konstanz.


    The style of the bed and wardrobe seemed to be early renaissance. In other "mixed" dreams I have seen those furniture again.


    So here is the problem with PL dreams: How to translate König does it mean Charles the Bold? Or Charles VII? :confused:


    I have a feeling as if I have known Charles the Bold and maybe I have met him again these days. I have found no direct connection between both Karls and Konstanz. Renaissance style started very early in Italy, about 1420 and much later in France.


    Some months ago I had a dream about Charolais and red crosses but my research at that time wasn´t successful.


    I have got less time and a great pile of work at the moment, but I will hold on the topic :)
     
  15. Lila P

    Lila P Member

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    mara, if you were the governer of Burgundy after Charles the Bold, you´ve most probably known him. I don´t know if he was called a king, Burgundy was a Duchy back then and the rulers were called dukes.


    So, you were also a knight of the Golden Fleece (Toison d´Or). This order was established by Philip the Good, Charles´ father. Philip the Good was also the capturer of Joan of Arc. Burgundy was in alliance with the English during the hundred years´war.
     
  16. Skarphedinn

    Skarphedinn New Member

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    Yes, LilaP, I meant that gentleman exactly. Sir John Talbot. It's good to know more about their family relationship.


    I am interested in almost all that medieval, but I tried to focus on specific topics. I haven't read anything serious about the War of Roses, but I intended so. I am up to date until the end of the Hundred Years War, but I lost the thread afterwards. One of my specific topic in this era is France between 1412 and 1453. I also like the first period of the war, but I have a different emotional relationship to it.


    To tell the truth, I don't know whether I had any previous lives that time - I don't even know anything about a PL of mine of any period - but it doesn't seem unlikely to have had one/some. I am interested in the war as a history-lover, and a fan of Joan of Arc - whatever the deeper spiritual reason is therefore.


    I suggest we should found a thread about the Hundred Years War/War of the Roses, for we are being offtopic in the dream interpreting thread. Both these topics are dear to me.


    Skarphedinn
     
  17. mara

    mara New Member

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    The result of my PL-dreams-research of the last week has brought a unsuspected effect.


    This week I have noticed to my great surprise, that a special spinal problem of mine has just disappeared. I have had several herniated disc and so on, in the worst time I was unable for years to sit on a chair or to stand still because of the severe pains. I have done body work, have been by excellent chiropractors which were a great help on other spinal problems but all this time I wasn´t able to bring my spine in the correct positition -except on horseback ( I do body therapy with horses and riders on a very high level and I see/feel at once where people or horses are blocked and I can ride the horses blockades away so it was depressing that I failed by myself).


    What I found remarkable- when I try to recapture my former postures which I used and which helped me the last 30 years to avoid or to soothe the heavy backache it is now nearly impossible for me and those postures do ache horrible yet.
     
  18. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    That's interesting - and good to hear, Mara. :thumbsup:


    Do you know what exactly in your reasearch helped you with your back problems? Were you remembering and working with a past life where your back was somehow injured or something?


    Curiously,


    Karoliina
     
  19. mara

    mara New Member

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    The trigger was a simple side about the château de la Rochepot - I was only in search of a link. Reading it caused an emotional shock by myself. As I calmed down I read more about the life of Philippe and somehow I have integrated this life- it is as I have found something very valuable again which I have lost/forgotten long ago. From that point on my special spinal problem has gone. :)


    It feels like my self is enlarged or more complete now.


    I thought a lot about that life and the PLdreams I have had about knights and so but I haven´t seen an injury or similar for that specific pain. I am aware since many years of what it means to fight in a battle and I have seen/felt parts of massacres.


    Quiete funny, I never have tried to find a PL connection/solution to my backache :D
     
  20. Lila P

    Lila P Member

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    This was really interesting, mara because the effect of your finding was so dramatic.


    But I´ve noticed myself that certain things in this life, which could easily explained by this-life events, have after all roots in a PL.


    And I´m still interested to hear more about your life as Philippe Pot. Memories, research results, this-life effects, anything goes. :)
     

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