Pleased to meet you all and any Cathars!

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by Valerian, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. Valerian

    Valerian Valerian

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    Hi, everybody. A poster on another forum recommended this site - so here I am a registered member!

    I have read through quite a lot of your postings and found them very interesting. I have a very vivid recollection of one (only one) PL and it has totally affected this incarnation. So much so that I doubt if there have been other incarnations in the interim - although I could be very wrong. My recollections came as an assortment of fears, interests and powerful flashbacks (very different from memories!) over many years. I have done what research I could and have discussed my situation with a very wise person who explained some of the happenings.

    Basically, I believe I was interested in Catharism and lived near Beziers in Southern France (This actual location may be a red herring - it is just that I was born in Sale which is twinned with Beziers. Where I lived was definitely Southern France as I managed to locate the layout of the villages there. I was in my early twenties and had four children, when I was betrayed by my husband for my beliefs, particularly reincarnation. I was thrown down a grain storage hole and left to die amidst other rotting corpses.

    Now I have a very spiritual life, have come to terms with what happened and have learnt so much from the experience.

    If any of your members can recall being involved with the Cathars, I would love more info. I am sure we are being reborn together around this time. This also seems to be happening with Theosophists. BTW I think this site is great :)
     
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  2. Mysterysoul

    Mysterysoul Senior Registered

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    At first,
    i want to give you a warm welcome to the forum!
    have a nice stay here and enjoy reading the posts
    hope you will find some answers on your question and hope you feel home here soon :)
    take care,
    Elisa
     
  3. Littlemoon

    Littlemoon Senior Registered

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    Welcome to the forum!

    What a horrendous thing to have done to you in your past life. Do you remember more about this life? Or others? I'm sure this is the reason you're so spiritual in this one.

    I hope you find the forum a fun place to be! Click here to see the results of a search of the forum I did for the word "cathar." Hope this helps!
     
  4. Ailish

    Ailish Administrator Emerita

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    Hi Valerian,

    Welcome! :D I enjoyed reading your story very much! Thank you for sharing. I'm glad that you were able to learn from that life, and bring something with you into this one. Sometimes figuring out the lesson is the most difficult part of remembering. Enjoy the forum ;)


    Ailish
     
  5. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    Hello Valerian and welcome!

    I think one of the very well recorded past life experiences that connected many people (who didn't know each other), was about Cathars in Southern France. I had a book from library about it, but I don't have it anymore unfortunately and can't remember its title.

    Did you know about this??

    Karoliina
     
  6. Valerian

    Valerian Valerian

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    Thanks for such a very warm welcome

    What lovely people you are for making me feel so welcome and responding so promptly to my first posting. I tried the link you made for me, Leia, but I just got 'sorry, no matches'. I tried a similar search before I registered and got the same result, - maybe you have a different access mode.

    No, I remember no other lives, apart from the feeling that my daughter was once my mother. I think fear has had much to do with any further PL development. I am also scared of what I might have done to others in the past. I forgive myself for all harm I have caused, but I am not too sure I want to recollect it all!

    My most vivid flashback happened about 25 years ago. I knew nothing about the possibility of Catharism or Southern France. It was the most powerful culmination of the troubled feelings and strange experiences I had had previously. If you are interested to read it, here are the details:

    I was sitting in our morning room at Sale with the table near the window and my husband started saying something to me. Suddenly the whole room changed. I was sitting behind a large open window looking out onto an entirely different scene. I was much younger and there were four small children of mine in the room. My husband sat next to me and looked like a rougher, heavier version of my present day spouse. There was a commotion outside and I looked at my husband and saw the accusation in his eyes. 'They' were coming to get me because I had different beliefs. I was taken out of the house along the cobbled street. One of my shoes came off but the two soldiers held my arms and we did not stop. Then there was a blurring in my mind but it terminated with me being pushed into a hole in the ground and a circular metal lid closed above me. The fear and the stench of rotting corpses was horrific.

    After this event I (present life) wouldn't speak to anyone for days. I just wanted to be outside in the fresh air away from the smell in my nostrils. I didn't know clearly who I was. I felt a tremendous sympathy for this young woman but I also felt she had usurped my life. I never knew what 'flashbacks' were till that happening. I thought they were just strong memories.

    Two or three years ago I had a discussion with a very wise man. He said that although such events happened in England, how I described things was what happened to the Cathars. The 'holes' they used were for grain storage. Fairly recently I had a holiday in the South of the Dordogne and saw medieval villages which had the same, rather strange layout that the scene in my flashback had. That and all the past events linked together and I now hold the view that I was not a Cathar as such but was a young person who took on their teachings. Needless to say it has changed my life. I have studied many faiths including Buddhism where I was a meditation teacher. Now I see myself as a mystic, I do not wave any flag or wear any tag. I carry on along the Path but still enjoy such things in life as computers and computer forums!

    I've never thought of using the library to research, I must try harder! Cheers to you all, Valerie
     
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  7. Chelle

    Chelle Probationary

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    Welcome to the forum, Valerie. :)

    That is a fascinating experience you had. It sounds like it contained a lot of detailed information for you to go on. Thank you for sharing.

    It sounds like your husband now was your husband then. Do you think that is the case or is it just a similarity in looks?
     
  8. Valerian

    Valerian Valerian

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    Interesting point!

    Thanks, Chelle, I am not sure whether or not it is the same husband. The looks are similar but I have noted that previous men I have had some interest in have had the same sort of appearance. What is different is that my husband (now) has a warm, caring, nature. He is quite predictable, totally reliable and stable and will do anything to help people - especially his own family. At the same time, he is very law abiding and part of me thinks that he could possibly put 'law' above 'love' but this may just be one of my fears. I know that when people get ideas in their heads they can be very powerful. If he is the same husband then I think he has had further incarnations to develop himself. He has been very supportive of me in the esoteric schools where I have received teaching and has accepted that my beliefs are different from his. I just don't know for certain. In a way it would be nice to think that he is the same person and that there has been forgiveness on both sides.
     
  9. Josefina

    Josefina Senior Registered

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    Oh my God!

    Valerian, you said that:

    >Two or three years ago I had a discussion with a very wise man. He said that although such events happened in England, how I described things was what happened to the Cathars.

    That really hit the bell in me!

    The most vivid PL I have is about being a monk in England. It may be that I was just a novice in those days (around 1400), but anyway I was very deeply in love with a mysterious (older?) woman who teached me spiritual matters in the middle of a forest during night times. Somehow we were captured doing this, and she was eventually burned at stake in front of my very own eyes.

    I remembered what happened to her in this life when I was 19 years old. I was sitting on a sofa, maby knitting or doing something relaxing, and suddenly I felt "an energy" coming into my heart. From there it went straight into my head, and I FELT how that horrible thing I mentioned was happening...

    I have always felt I myself lived quite a long life after that, it my even be possible that I went to my emotionally cold and distant father (who had a shop, storage? in our town) to beg for help to save my loved from flames, but they didn't even open the door for me. I lived a miserable life in agony, full of sorrow, pain, hatred...

    But the thing is that I have sometimes felt a horrible feeling/sensation about being alive in a kind of tomb chamber, amongst rotting corprses. I can't see any connection with all my PLs about this. I always thought that if one is put in a grave, one must die there, but I don't remember being dying anywhere in a place like that. (Once I died in a cave that collapsed, but that was a different life.)

    When I was about 6 to 8 years old I once was alone in my home and suddenly realized that I'm going to die someday. I felt intense panic, like all the walls were falling down to me. In adulthood I have sometimes waked up into middle of night and felt that same horror about death, and in the same time I have had thoughts about my body rotting while I'm still in it.

    Could it really be that I went through a special kind of TORTURE witch is just like that: being thrown in a pit full of rotten bodies...

    All my bodyhair rosed up and my heart started to pump loudly when I read what you had heard and written, Valerian.

    It seems to me that anyone who says to me that PLs don't exist, only makes me thinking: oh don't talk rubbish to me...

    But after all this: who really were they who sometimes are called "Cathars", sometimes Bogomills, Gnostics... I'm quite sure what is called names like that was an underground movement which had it outposts even as far as in England, although not everybody accepts that. My Teacher certainly was no devoted Catholic... I don't know exactly what she was, but I know for sure that she teached me and everything she said is the main cause I'm on this road of constant hunting of knowledge!
     
  10. Valerian

    Valerian Valerian

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    Re Josefina's posting

    Hi, Josephina

    Your posting made my blood run cold. Possibly because of the rotting corpses but listen to this part of my experience - I think it throws light on yours. It is also the reason why I originally thought what had happened to me took place in England. It was only when I described the house to my daughter and she said that I had got something wrong about the large window that I was more ready to accept the idea about France.

    I have put things in full because I think it keeps things in context. Hope I don't bore everybody ;)

    As a child I was a very odd one! I had many 'strange' beliefs that apparently came from nowhere. My mother used to tell me to keep quiet or a man would come in a yellow van and take me away. I believed that I had lived before and that I had been separated from 'God'. Even before I could read properly, I was fascinated by two biblical books - St John the Divine and Revelations. I spent my teenage years and beyond that searching for 'God' and had many strange experiences. I also suffered from depression; even as a child. The French language terrified me although I became quite fluent in German. At University I got confirmed into the 'Church in Wales' - basically Church of England. The Vicar invited me to a Conference for Vicars and Curates. (I'm not at all sure why he did!) After hearing a load of what I thought was rubbish, I stood up in front of everyone and said that I believed all people came from God, that they lived countless lives and then when they tired of those they returned back to God from whence they came. Vicar was chairing the large conference - he was horrified and said that in ?Century people were burnt at the stake for saying less than that. I remember looking out at the sunlight on the green grass outside, appreciating what I saw and then thinking ' They can't touch me now -it's a different time'. I didn't know then why I thought that.

    Your posting was particularly interesting, Josefina, because I had never thought of alternative names for the Cathars - only that they didn't use that name for themselves. (I think they chose to be referred to as Bon Homme and Bonne Femme). THe mention of the gnostics was pertinent because a few months ago, I joined a gnostic organisation!! Things get stranger and stranger. I am so pleased I have found support in this forum. I didn't realise how much I needed it. Valerie
     
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  11. Josefina

    Josefina Senior Registered

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    To be exact Cathars and Bogomills are separate groups from different parts of Europe, but it's quite possible they have had connections between them, and both groups have similar ideas to gnostisism. I just finished a book by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, "Talisman", which said a lot about all those groups... They said that Cathars had 2 kinds of people in their groups, lay brothers (who could live as they pleased) and "Perfects" who didn't eat meat, have sex etc. They all believed in reincarnation. Also they believed that Christ didn't live in flesh, and Jehovah was an evil god who had fashioned everyones fleshy bodies, but that spirits came from the real God...

    I can imagine how Catholics have been horrified about thoughts like that. But to torture and kill people for IDEAS... What evil mind ever deciced that? It is even written in the Bibble that if apostles go to a village and people in the village don't want to know any of what they are saying, they just have to leave. There isn't anything like "burn all the villagers who don't believe like you"...

    In my own country I have written for some years now in some forum about spiritual matters, and I'm over and over again astonished about the narrow minded people who call themselves Christian or more often "believers" demonstrate. I guess it's just a certain level of ones development. But boy do I feel lucky that they can't make me suffer, nor can they make any of my loved ones to suffer. It's all over now... But because I'm a moody person I, too, have been quite depressic all my (this) life. Things like those burnings at stake are too horrible even to ones soul to just forget. I think I remember past just because I couldn't put my agony away, even if I got another body of flesh.

    I hope I can forgive some day. It has been a burden to me to think that I am mad because I feel sorrow for a thing I can't even prove to be true. How can I be angry, if it is all just in my mind? But how can I forgive, if I think this is all just a phantasy? I have no other choice but to take this for real. And so, any time I hear just the lightest thing that could be proof for me, I feel joy and energy.

    I think one shouldn't think so much do every this or that go with the historical facts of some certain time. People don't know everything, history don't know everything. If the picture mainly fits, and if the feeling is overhelming, why should we need to jump here and jump there the way somebody else says to do? My partner used to say to me all the time that what if you have lived in France (I don't know what exactly it was that was so dear to him in France exactly, other than he has lived there...) but I always said, no, it was England and that is that. There are some things where one just has to trust her/himself. Others don't know. They aren't inside of me, or you, or anyone. They are inside themselves.

    :laugh:
     
  12. Littlemoon

    Littlemoon Senior Registered

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    Hmm.
    try typing "cathars" in the search engine again--I tried it again and it worked for me-
     
  13. brevity

    brevity brevity

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    Valerian i only joined this forum recently as well and never posted anything about my religious beliefs yet, but i do identify with catharism as well as gnosticism. When i was a child my mother and I was in a car accident and as it was a large truck and lying on its side we were more or less trapped and fuel was leaking out in the road, my mother said "oh my God i hope there is no sparks for the fuel could catch fire" in a few seconds i managed to crawl out through the narrow space where the window was a bit higher than the door of the truck and was nearly catatonic for a short time due to this terrible fear of burning to death (again) nobody could understand how i crawled through such a tiny space but that was how terrified i was.

    I've always known that we live more than one life even though born a protestant, but the first time i learned about gnosticism and also the cathars i just knew i was burnt as a heretic in a previous life. But my beliefs preceded knowledge of these ancient religions, reading about them was just confirmation that indeed i was not alone and that many believed as i do in times gone by.

    I dont know details of any prior lives though, but i dont mind as i do believe there is a reason why we dont remember, often maybe because it could affect what we do in this life, but maybe it was necessary for you to remember them.

    I read once that the reason the roman catholics was so zealous in eradicating all traces of the cathars is because they felt them a grave threat because cathars taught people to read and gave them bibles (personal salvation) while of course the roman church told people that ONLY the church and priests can help people to salvation so they were in direct opposition.

    I found it interesting what you said about the cathars maybe being drawn together at this particular time, do you think there is a reason for it? and another thing, what about the "perfecti", wouldnt they have moved on from being reborn as apparently they were people who have already broken their attachments to the world? Although maybe they conceivably could return at this point because the world might be ready now for the truth as it wasnt in the past..

    I read one time that both gnosticism and catharism has its roots in manichaeism which originated in Persia.

    I really think this forum is great so many things to learn and interesting people, and welcome from me too valerian although im also pretty new

    Brevity
     
  14. brevity

    brevity brevity

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    to karoliina

    Karoliina could the title of the book maybe have had a reference to "Montsegur" in it? I know many books about the cathars have montsegur in its title as it was there where the last cathars was burnt as heretics.
     
  15. Lights

    Lights Lights

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    Not a student of this at least not serious, but isn't Montsegur near Chateau Le Rennes? (forgive my bad French spelling). You might also want to check out some Gnostic sites to see if any of the beliefs are familiar. I say this because last life I was Christian Science and when I checked out a site, everything I thought about in connection with CS turned out to be right. It may be this way for you as well.

    The vehemence of your emotions may be because a lot of bad emotions I believe have been stirred up because of the Church and its persecution of those whom it declared to be heretics. So in addition to your having been a Cathar, you may be picking up on this as well.

    I am reasonably sure that in one life, I was Catholic on the surface, but practiced the Old Ways secretly.
     
  16. Valerian

    Valerian Valerian

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    A brief reply!

    I am just on my way out for the evening but had to have a quick look at the forum and once again many, many thanks to you all. I tried 'search' on the site and this time it worked!! Must have been a gremlin somewhere or at least someone wanted me to join this forum. :)

    I think the book Karoliina might have had was 'The Cathars and Reincarnation, by Arthur Guirdham'. I found this is one of the archived postings. Didn't find anyone who said much about being a Cathar although there were mentions about the teachings. Don't know why I really think this age is one for Cathars and Theosophists to be reborn. My teacher mentioned about the Theosophists and I read on a website about Cathars something about a shrub flowering again after 700 years. I think the 'Perfects' may have moved on, but what about us lay people?

    BTW I have tried Christian Science is this life too! Cheers, Valerie
     
  17. Lights

    Lights Lights

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    Oh, I can think of a reason, Valerian. From the beginning of the past century, especially from the 1960s on, there has been an explosion of occult knowledge and access thereto. I think that souls are drawn to a time where hopefully they will have a safe space in which to work out their spiritual interference. :)

    I'd thought about taking CS up again, but it really doesn't fit my spirituality now. However its belief in God Father/Mother may have unconsciously set me
    on the path of Paganism when I returned.

    Oh and please forgive me for not welcoming you sooner. Quite forgot my manners I did! :eek:
     
  18. Lights

    Lights Lights

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    Hey Valerian just struck me...there is a teaching in CS summed up as "death is the Illusion". Man, have we proven THAT! :thumbsup:
     
  19. Karoliina

    Karoliina Moderator Emerita

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    I think the book I had was a general one about reincarnation, but there was a story about this Cathar case, which I found very interesting. But I bet the same story is in the book you Valerie mentioned - and with more detail. You should get it!

    Karoliina
     
  20. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I bought it in LA at a used books store last week.


    'The Cathars and Reincarnation, by Arthur Guirdham'. Anyone else read it yet? It's a 1970 case that so far seems very compelling.
     

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