Pleased to meet you all and any Cathars!

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by Valerian, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    Sorry for typos, I have a fused thumb because of RA and hard to type without being clunky!
     
  2. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Wow Kaye, I love your posts. You seem to have the desire to integrate your former knowledge into the Now. I think that's the only purpose of remembering old lives: to create a kind of continuation. Sometimes this means the closure of that past, sometimes it means to carry on with the quest, just under new circumstances.
    I know about the Cathars and their way of thinking and a bit of their tragic history. I once helped a friend with memories as a Cathar to find out about what happened to them.
    The mysticism of the Cathars doesn't appeal to me, it's too much black & white, good vs evil and so on. You could wonder... with their strong disapproval of sex (and consequently pregnancies) even without the Inquisition, the Cathars could have vanished anyway because they didn't procreate. ;)

    Still, it was an interesting spiritual movement in history. Interesting points of view, good material for profound discussions.
     
  3. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    It's funny, I don't feel myself to be on the inside as it were when it comes to Cathar belief, but in my younger days I did find myself independently reaching the view that procreation was simply imprisoning yet more souls in this physical world. It isn't a popular view and I found few people with whom to properly discuss the idea, it just remained my own isolated thought. I think that may be why when I later came across Catharism, I felt I could relate, I'd already reached some of the same ideas.
     
  4. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    Its hard to understand their concepts, it was very black and white. I have tried to understand why. People were tortured and burnt alive, I have to think their existance was one of extremes. I agree that unless someone joined on their owm, there would be no one left in 50 years. I was shown that the negative force they saw they feel is in the times we live in rather than a body like the inquisition. They felt we live in unrelenting times that are pulling us apart. One of my lesson dreams, its the way I was shown, so odd. To be shown as a story and st ends its actually me they are pointing out. This one is about the concept of wealth, how you concieve wealth.
    I am in homeless in front of old apartment. Live in the streets and all I own is a bed. Another homeless family sets up next to me. Young parents, her father snd a girl of 4. All they own is a bowl. They do not speak English and squat in the dirt in a cluster all day. The husband and father touch noses before they go to sleep. I am thinking in US men would never do that. They all clearly love each other. I feel sorry for the girl sleeping in street and I give my bed to them. My only possession. They dont speak English so assume I dont want it anymore rather than a gift. They all climb in, share their bowl and just exist. Their day is filled with quiet moments of affection and they pay no attention to me. I am thinking I gave them the only thing I had. Then I hear a voice, a male voice of someone not in dream say they were never poor, they had each other. The only one who was poor was you, all you had was a bed and nothing more.
    Ouch. So my slew of 'direction' dreams were hard to take for a month. They were there to show me in ways I could see and understand. Flaws in my beliefs, concepts, understanding. Designed to remove sense of self or ego. It was hard to take since they would not stop. I thought, who and why is this happening, never asked for it. Like I was not seeking, they were seeking me. After month I felt if I am so full of flaws why not let me be? I never sought you out, you sought me out. Which is explained to me in regression
    Through all that constant parable-in-your-face I felt embarrassed and weird. Then once I was sufficiently indone, opportunity for regression came forth and then I had my answers. I think no one chooses now to be cathar, it sometimes chooses you instead. It has not been easy. Those dreams exhausted me. Relentless. Ugh, it was hard. I felt picked apart to undo sense of self.
     
  5. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    Wow Kaye, that's weighty stuff, but very interesting. Nothing quite like that has happened to me, though I've had my own journey of ego dissolution, mostly through illnesses. It isn't something which is happening to me at the moment though.
     
  6. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    I think we all ho through the lessons we chose to come back for. I have always believed that different lifetimes become accessible at points of your life where its relevent. Where it connects. The lessons I was given in dreams... oh wow hold on, in the regression it says those women cathars are accessible to me when Im asleep. Weird, wonder why the voice is male? Anyway, when I wake up Im always in a state to defend myself, its not what I meant, you did not know what I meant but I suppose thats ego too. Books add glamor to cathars, I saw one website that said there were crystal palaces, etc. Hmmm.. what I saw wete a group of asthetics who were focused on their inner pathway. I think the fact this forum exists means we are all trying to understand our soul choices and why we are hear. If a person has a beautiful family, a job they love or a job they hate and are alone, theres a lesson in that. My guess would be if you have a life of fullness never forget to be thankful or grateful and if you dont have certain things, be thankful for what you do have. Illness is a big one, I was told dont dwell on hardships. Everyone dwells, how can we not.
     
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  7. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    In my next life I would like to not make typos when I type with my Charlie Brown fingers.
     
  8. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Firefly,

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Cathars dying out based on not reproducing or encouraging reproduction. The path of the celibate renunciant and ascetic has been extolled in most world religions, including Christianity. Whether it is a Buddhist culture, a Christian culture, or a Hindu culture, the monk, nun, or other renunciant has historically been held in great respect as being or practicing the “higher” or more ideal way/path. (This was especially true of Christianity in the middle ages). Nonetheless, there are plenty of ordinary worshippers/practitioners in all of these religions/cultures (just as there were among the Cathars) who lived ordinary family lives with plenty of children. Only the Parfait among Cathars were required to remain celibate to preserve the effect and hope of the Consolamentum: a good death (i.e., one that led to a return to the Light and freedom/liberation from the sufferings of this world). Some managed to do so, but not all, as the example of Guillaume Belibaste (discussed below) makes clear.

    Also, I think we often put the wrong emphasis on some of these sayings/teachings. For example, Christ said many things in an extreme way to make a point. Hyperbole as a rhetorical device is and was a well known and respected way of teaching in his age as well, I believe, as in the age of the Cathars. E.g., if people took Christ’s comment that one should cut off hands and/or feet if they lead you into sin literally, there would be very few Christians with hands and feet. Sayings like this are generally taken as statements made to emphasize the seriousness of sin rather than to encourage self-amputation of limbs. There are many things said (even in ordinary conversation) that are meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
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  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    I have also wondered about the blossoming of an interest in Catharism at this point in time. In fact, the Cathar period and beliefs are something that began to be “redicovered” in the 1800s, with increasing attention paid in the 1900s. But even this was mostly limited to Europe, where there was a regional audience in their old territories and/or among other Europeans interested in the esoteric. Catharism only recently seems to have come to the attention of many others. Dr. Arthur Guirdham’s books helped in this, as does the internet. A burgeoning interest in reincarnation and alternate spiritualities has also brought Catharism to the attention of many. But this doesn’t touch on you and your dreams. Why the month of dreams, why this sudden intervention in your life? Why you, why now?

    I can only wonder at the oft cited prophecy of the last Cathar Parfait, Guillaume Belibaste before he was burned at the stake: “In seven hundred years the laurel will become green again, good people will return”. Of course, “Good People” is what the Cathars called themselves, and since Guillaume was executed in 1323, that would make 2023 exactly 700 years later. Many others have taken this "prophecy" as pointing to the current era. So, perhaps in this there is some clue as to why it seems that those with this background are being “awakened” to their past . . . and perhaps to a sense of present duty. Otherwise, I can only guess.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--Guillaume was a person of many flaws (like the rest of us!). However, he was seemingly lured to his death by the idea that there were "unfallen" Parfait where he was going who could once again convey to/on him the Consolamentum. It is also said that he died well and bravely (as did other Cathars): http://www.cathar.info/cathar_whoswho.htm#belibaste
     
  10. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    I actually read about him after my regression. Since my regression was as a female parfait, the lessons and observations brought to my attention were from that point of view. As fir understanding the concept of celibacy I was shown yet another example, in this case I was supposed to understand it literally. It was supposed to help me during the phase of stepping into a cathar life as opposed to reading about it.
    I am sitting cross legged on the floor and some man behind me doing same. He leans forward and wraps his arms around me. I sort of instinctively move but he stays like that. I am very uptight with some stranger in my personal space. But he doesnt move and wants me to be fully aware. When I do then it feels like being wrapped in warmth, totally safe, totally loved, but not sexual love. It feels like his essence moves through my core and I cannot believe this is happening. Then the voice I always hear asks me to examine what I was really looking for. To understand that all of those reactions do not have to come from a sexual union. Then he says from this point forward I will exist in only day and never night.
    So I owned that and strangely enough felt incredibly beautiful on the inside. More female, more beautiful but on the inside. It was keeping a part of you not shared. And to learn to focus out of the concept of want.
    I was at a loss why these old aesthetic lessons needed now. In regression I was shown I would endure illness and it was important I understood all of this and that they were there now. The last part of the regression I say the answer to the question is that it was the right time. I am trying to meet the potential I was shown. The challenge was to not fall into that was 700 years ago because over and over I am told its very important I understand there is only 1 time, all time is one. I am meant to buck up and understand that. Its really odd but I am owning it. Sure hope I dont die early, or transition early.
     
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  11. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    Oh and its not meeting someone else's expectations of you, its surpassing your own expectations. Seeing through what you previously held yourself to.
     
  12. Speedwell

    Speedwell Senior Registered

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    About time: I think maybe the planet Earth has its own time, it revolves in its orbit around the sun, years and centuries pass by. But when I think of things from a past-life, they don't seem distant at all, what I was feeling or thinking centuries ago could be continued in the present moment, the same thought, the same feeling. In that sense there isn't any separation, the past isn't somewhere far away, it is here simply because there is only now. Maybe.
     
  13. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    That is do cool because one of the references was 'the period of now'. This just does not make sense to me - with added bonus of making my head hurt - but the image I was shown in my head was time coexisting. Like past present and future exist like in parallel. Enter headache. It scrambles my thoughts. They saw it as literal. So Montsegur is somehow in now, as are anyone who transitioned. Its all in one moment and same place. I dont have the capacity to understand that. Its too much for me to say I get it because not on any level do I.
     
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  14. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    I'm dodging away from my work for a moment more. (I'd really rather be doing this, but . . .).

    Anyhow, I agree that for you the ascetic and celibate principles seem to apply in full. You were not an ordinary Credente then, and you are not expected to regress to that state, but to advance from where you were, which seems to have been either a Parfait or training to be one. Plus, in life generally, the advanced student gets the advanced teacher. Your teacher seems to have been very advanced, which also reflects on who you were during that lifetime. Hmmm. It also goes without saying that the advanced student is expected to do and accomplish a lot more than the ordinary student. To whom more is given, more is expected. (I am not saying any of this to stimulate egotism, and I trust I won't--as you know, you were far behind/below your teacher--which should be enough to keep one humble).

    In terms of time, I can only think that "all time is one" refers not to the material world, but to the spirit/soul. The spirit/soul you were then is still the same spirit/soul. If a regressionist wished to do so (and you were an apt subject), they could regress you to being a 4 year old. You would then think and respond as a 4 year old. The 4 year old is, therefore, still present and part of you--as a spirit/soul. Likewise, as spirit/soul you can be and know what you knew and were 6-700 years ago or a 1000 years ago. You are one, and time is meaningless. Hence, you can access anything and anyone you ever were and concepts like the "present" and "past" become meaningless for the soul/spirit which remains "one". Does this also extend in the opposite direction? Can you access/be who you are/will be in the future? Some think so, and hypnotism for "progression" as well as regression exists. I have read some interesting accounts in this area, but they vary widely in terms of future prognostications for the outer world. So, the extension of these concepts into the future obviously needs further thought. Unfortunately, I'm out of time at the moment.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  15. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    All of you have added so much to my insight, I feel lucky. What others add increases your vision, its so needed. So cool.

    I have done a lot of research post regression trying to find out identity of older female, my mentor as well as 2 other women. 3 are always shoulder to shoulder, only her face has details. Extremely thin, grey hair, very dark blue cape thing, white shift, floppy clothing, no form. Draped in clothing. Something at waist. Died at Montsegur with the 3 of us, we all are in dark blue. We are gathered and moved from where we are, by men. Feels like being arrested. We are outside when it happens, when burned. I say when it happens its not day, but its a darker day, but not night and we are gathered then. So dusk or dawn? There is only 1 person who it can be as no one else would have been in that role. We were not believers, but cathar perfecta. Wore dark blue, black blue, midnight blue. My guess is its Rixende de Telle. From what I read online, she was in a mother supierior role. We lived together, had a stone floor, not wood. I felt 22. Do not know any women who died with her by name. We are face to face in silence before we were separated and burned. We all wore dark blue. She is the one interested in reaching out to me now, this older one. I was told it was important I know they are near me now. I describe it as a reclaiming. Interesting is all the bruises I had on my arms and legs when this all came circle now was where I was tied there. Psychsomatic memory or something, dont know. I took a lot of pictures because it was so weird. I dont know why now. I am hoping to know. Someone I know went to Montsegur and mailed me a stone from the summit. I tried to upload, file too big. When I hold it it makes my hand feel like a scrape. Not what I had thought at all. It definitely hurts. Not throb, like a scrape. Its bothersome so I keep in bedroom but almost never hold it. I think for all of us all we can do is hope to understand our past.
     
  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    Well, despite your comment--“I think for all of us all we can do is hope to understand our past”--you seem to be doing more than just trying to understand your past. I.e., you seem to be not just seeking to understand who you were, etc., but becoming and progressing from where you left off as a Perfecta under the tutilage of Rixende de Telle and others. At least, it seems that way to me.

    Plus, it seems to me that the “awakening” of Cathars that is taking place or is about to take place must be about more than just “understanding who” they were, but reviving and moving forward from there. If not, I have to wonder what the point would be. Likewise, I have to wonder what role you are intended to play in this?

    Only a small percentage of those who died were Parfait. And, of these, you may well have been part of a very special group. Even if not, it is clear you have been given and are possibly still being given very special instructions and guidance. This begs the question: Why?

    The only answer that I can come up with is that you—and possibly others like you—are intended to reconsitute Catharism. This cannot be done by admirers cobbling together some type of Neo-Catharism based on what they can find out from old sources leavened with New Age cliches. It also cannot be done by the far more numerous Credente, who never had full knowledge. It could only be done by Parfait with, or with something close to, full knowledge of the teachings.

    Also, it does not appear that those who have well and truly left and entered the Light (Rixende?) intend to make a full return. So, this would leave those who were not at such an exalted level (after further instruction by such as Rixende) to do this. This begins to sound a lot like you.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS—Why all who received the Consolamentum did not fully and finally enter the Light is an open question. I have some thoughts on the matter. However, those can wait.
     
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  17. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    I feel the same way as you. A lot of what you have written affected me at core level. I know one of the biggest challenges are the published doctrines of their beliefs although the cathars themselves wrote very little. So much is based on the Inquisition accounts who were simultaneously torturing them and burning both cathar parfaits, believers, men, women and children along the way. So their accountability has got to be challenged on some level. This morning I had a eureka moment before work, it was something you mentioned, that was the trigger. I had had a really vivid dream about 7 months ago. It was a gathering of cathar men in what looked to be a hall or foyer. This rather distinguished place belonged to someone, the person felt really wealthy. It is during the interim period where they were given a chance to renounce or be burned. A man they trusted, who had let them stay there had concerns about the point of sacrificing yourself for your beliefs. Some of the men were pretty defiant in their tone and when I am viewing it I am thinking its how a crowd sometimes gets when 1 or 2 are more defiant and others say nothing. No one would have renounced, not ever, but the 2 vocal men definitely had tone. It was not the same vibe as the small women group. Its when I knew people are people no matter if you believe the same spiritually. I hate to say this but when I am viewing it, when I woke up I did not care for those 2 and they sounded sort of abrasive. Their right if you know what your fate is. Flash forward to this morning.. would it not be the ultimate defiance for those 2 to not be singing as they entered that area? It hit me and all of a sudden I knew why something like that would have happened or how easily it could have. I was part of 4 women who were silent but the male cathars from my dream were loud just like with any group. What I read online is that all supposedly did die silent so I have to believe the hyper meditation while transitioning was a practice they all learned. But could people have been singing in an in-your-face gesture of unity.. oh boy, yes. I had forgotten about that dream because I did not like those 2 men but then your words shot through my head and I knew how easy it would have been and possible reasons why. I stand corrected!
    In this life I am an activist and in my lesson period of dreams I got dinged on that too. Ugh. In this dream I am watching (a current elected official lets say) on stage ranting. In each hand he holds a light bulb connected to a wire attached to his body. Each time he says something bad about and individual or group the lightbulbs turn on and the current shocks his body. I am in crowd watching and pretty
    Soon its like electrocuting himself. The crowd is happy to see this pattern because we are thinking, go ahead and remove yourself from office, just keep talking. Then my familiar male voice says while its understandable if you like or dislike someone, no one cheers watching someone in effect, self destruct. Then, to make it even clearer, as apparently its felt I always need extra 'encouragement' the scene abruptly changes and the exact crowd I am standing in is now in the arena watching gladiators fight to the death and cheering. Of course, no more male voice comments since clearly I am supposed to figure that one on my own.
    The really amazing thing I learned from that other than feeling really weird is that thoughts carry form. So your intent has form. What you think you are doing for whatever your reasons are, you have to self check along the way. Its like personal integrity is so important, even in thoughts. There is never a chance given to defend my actions and say that was not what I meant as magically I wake up and have to think. It was a relentless month. So whomever on other side so concerned to show me things I am not aware of.. its also the message, if you strive to lead a life that is in anyway idealistic, you are accountable for not only what you do but how you come off, what you think privately. Its more than wearing the clothes of a cathar, its being aware and in check with yourself before you stand in judgement of anyone. Thoughts have form and even if someone is not for you, you have to keep in mind what is projected from you. It was difficult as I always thought my report card must be an F to the other side.. but someone sure wanted me to be self aware. I would not be lying if I said when that month of lesson dreams was o-v-e-r. By the sheer repitition of my 'lessons' it was clear there was no avoiding my flaws and the end result was Yes Kaye, we are referring to you. It was like in case I was deflecting in anyway, we have something else you need to know. Ugh, oh well.
     
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  18. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    As usual, I share S&S's thoughts without his ability to express them, my feelings are that you Kaye are living the Cather beliefs now.

    Edgar Casey said that thoughts were 'things' that remained and had to be dealt with.
     
  19. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Member

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    At night, when my work day is done I find myself going over all the things that are written from each of you and its really having an effect on me. Its the wisdom that you are providing and helping me see certain things. Then these things are popping up in my head during the day. I dont know much about Edgar Cayce but now I have to look him up. What is so astounding to me is that these conversations we are having, I dont have with anyone else. As isolated this has been for me, all of a sudden not only are these things coming out, but more importantly I am learning so much. Here is something else thats transpired, I figured maybe I will just die early so sll of this happened and they need me to know them. But if its just because people are waiting for you on the other side, wouldnt they be waiting anyway? The interaction with all of you is making me look at things in a different way. You are definitely part of the process towards enlightenment. Its very, very unusual. Going from no discussions to your link popping up in my browser. Never been in a discussion group, never been on Facebook, or Twitter or anything. Brand new experience and somehow exactly what was needed. Wow, so unusual.
     
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  20. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Good to hear Kaye:), I've felt (since my injury) that this lifetime was a test of some previous beliefs I've had - a test to see if I have truly understood. This is my main interest in this board even if it is somewhat secondary to the Bowman's intent perhaps. To me, you are being tested about your Good Woman/Good Christian beliefs although that is probably too simple.
     

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