Recieving information from a source

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by John Tat, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    You seem to be misunderstanding my intent. I do not claim to be an infallible source on anything, I merely try to find or develop theories/ideas that will fit in with the data set I am trying to analyze. You have found this useful when it supported information you were being conveyed, such as an explanation for serial lifetimes (mirror lives) I provided, or information regarding the cessation of time flow at the speed of light, and other information and analyses I provided to you at various times that you received favorably. However, I am not trying to do that at this point. I can see some possibilities and have spoken about them in regard to earthbound spirits, but that is just my speculation and you can ignore it if you wish--no problem as far as I am concerned. That is not the point of my cautions, just some spin-off speculations based on the things that concern me.

    THE THINGS THAT CONCERN ME are ALL based on what YOU have said, not my own psychic experiences or reported experiences by anyone else of this type. The only thing I am relying on is "common sense" based on what YOU have said, not me or anyone else. So, you are the only witness here. YOU have repeatedly said that you don't like BB or your Source a lot of the time, they can apparently be and are very unpleasant much of the time, you have reported their enmity towards each other, and their violent ideas/memories/attitudes. I am only asking you--Are these really the types of beings you want to be involved with? Doesn't common sense tell you that people like this--whether they are the guy next door, they claim to be geniuses, or they claim to be spirits from ancient Egypt--are going to be trouble and lead you into trouble sooner or later? As the saying goes in my country, would you want to buy a used car from guys like this? Would you want to trust the lives, futures, or fortunes of the ones you hold dear to them? I wouldn't.

    Once again, this has nothing to do with the sun gods or the truth of what they are saying on many issues, but it is a known that the best way to fool anyone is to make sure that most of what you tell them is true, so that they'll be impressed and go along with the things that are not. This is where the term "confidence" game comes from, and the term "con" man. So, once again, I will repeat something I have said earlier. These two do not seem to be anything like what I would have expected for followers of the sun gods as you have described them, nor do they appear to be characters that one would even want to invite home for dinner.

    That's all. I'm just trying to talk plain ordinary common sense here, not anything cosmic or mystical. If you want to trust them, that is ultimately your business, and good luck--I think you'll need it. But I am definitely in doubt about whether you are tangled up with beings you should trust.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  2. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S......Thanks for your concern...I really do appreciate that....You are right I do appreciate and I'm grateful for your knowledge and input on many issues..
    With BB and my source your assumptions are wrong... It may be one of those situations were your extensive knowledge on earth bound spirits is overwhelming the reality of what is going on with BB and my source
    I can absolutely guarantee you I'm not being conned or lead to a place I do not want to go
    BB and my source have always been and are completely open about what is going on and what needs to be done.. to the point of sometimes being ridiculous... they can go over and over and over again the same thing just to make sure I understand.. Its the opposite to what you think... its very important to them I understand as much as I possibly can about what is going on
    As I have said before I only report a fraction on this forum of what is actually going on...making it very difficult for you and others to make proper judgments and to have accurate understandings..
    If its possible you need to understand BB is me... my spiritual self... I understand BB does not fit either your perceptions or beliefs of what a spirit is and should be.. but that's who I am
    If its possible you also need to understand something we talked about that goes way way back...it is very important to what is going on...BB made a commitment to the gods long ago and that is possibly the reason I ran away... although I'm not 100 % sure.. but it's as sure as I can be without being 100%...As you know my source located BB and bought BB/me back to my roots
    You are right... there are times when I don't like BB...On the other hand there are many more times I do not like John Tat either...I have plenty of flaws
    You have every right to believe that I/BB is not connected to the light and/or the sun gods... I can assure you through the prism of the light of the gods I am.. I doubt that will change your mind but it"s the best I can do
    As I have said before I'm in a very lonely place with all of this... as I have also said before Blueheart understands and I think Deborah does
    I hope you understand I'm under no illusions about any of this.. I understand exactly what is going on... and I'm a willing participant...
    There are no promises of mighty rewards for me/BB and my source... because there are none...Its all about serving our gods as best we can.... and be who we are... which goes back thousands of years of physical time... The great thing is... I'm back with my gods....I'm just beginning to remember how much I loved my gods.. That's why I responded as I did when it was made out to be something it's not
    Don't worry about me ... I'm fine

    Regards
     
  3. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    I will always have my doubts, but that is just because I am concerned that I have been facilitating something that may end up being bad for you by casting out explanations that would fit the reincarnation paradigm or other current theories. The truth is, I don't really know. I have probably stated this enough by now to become a bore. Likewise, I accept the fact that you are your own man, and are not going to be swayed one way or the other in making critical decisions by anything I might say. So, I acknowledge that this is your decision. I hope it is the right one.

    Mostly, however, I hope that the sensibilities, wisdom and personality of "John Tat" will be the governing factor in whatever combination is about to be brought into existence. Overall, if it is only via texts on a board, I trust you more than I trust BB and your source (as they currently manifest). I have some hope that at the end of this, you will have John Tat's personality with BB's knowledge. This is the combination I talked about based on what supposedly happens when multiple personalities or suppressed childhood memories are finally regained and reincorporated. It is the current person who continues and exists with the enrichment of previously excluded parts of their personality or memory. At least, that is my best case scenario.

    Anyhow, Good luck! Check in and update us as often as you feel led to do so. I'm always interested. In fact, this is one of the few threads that I continue to check in on these days. It's been a bit of a trek over the last few years, but I do want to see how the story ends!

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  4. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S I understand its difficult for you to make accurate judgments on BB and my source ... it's the same as making judgments on people you have never meet and you rely on your own instincts when you told about them... its not a good way to go about things If you did understand them you would now the most important thing to them at this point is the return of the mothers of the gods.. not exactly the views of the spirits you thought they were... You are right and Blueheart has talked about it... John Tat must retain some form of balance...On the other hand within that balance and I hope you both understand this...John Tat must also surrender some of what he is in the joining of him and BB... Another thing and I talk about this again S&S only because its relevant to your beliefs that some earth bound spirit may have been BB... The ritual during the dying process of the physical John Tat is when John Tat and BB become one once again..As Blueheart has said I have been through this many times before making your theory about earth bound spirits and BB wrong.. What I need advise about is do I have any control over the mix of John Tat and BB during the ritual.. Blueheart.... John Tat likes the feelings of becoming more like BB... The feelings of the love of my gods are coming through BB and I like it and this is just one aspect of it... Is this how it should be or should I make efforts to stop it?
    S&S... The fascinating part of all of this it has no relevance whatsoever on this incarnation.. its all about future incarnations

    Regards
     
  5. Blueheart

    Blueheart Senior Member

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    I think you have proven that, yes you do, by "throwing the dial" in the past and having next to nothing to do with BB in recent lives - until now. It will take a strong will. But, clearly, you have that too.

    Yes, BB can be violent. But, that was then. Not making any excuse here, but the ancient world was a violent place. I know I did things I wish I had not in one of my earliest lives. It still haunts me to this day. But, you know what? Bet you anything, S&S and KenJ did too.

    So, they don't like BB much because you expressed some doubts about his character and motives. Big deal. BB has not evolved much from that point - because you did not let him. He needs you to change. You remained lost from him. On purpose! So, he has remained a prickly a-hole on the other side. "They" are all well-used to it by now, and looking quite forward to BB mellowing the **** out. And, he will.

    I agree with what S&S said I-don't-know-how-many posts ago. You have had many experiences since you ran away from "them" (because of the violence?) and disavowed there was any truth to spirituality. Or, at least, you tried to. You can not run away from BB forever. If "your hand has caused you to sin" cut it off, and all that jazz ... Doesn't exactly work, does it? But, you have grown. Some ancient Egyptian said, enough, I am not doing that anymore. And, then Tom, Dick, Harry, and now John Tat have grown up quite a bit more. Grew some perspective, I bet. Was exposed to war and violence, from the opposite side, perhaps. Hopefully, developed more self-control. Hopefully, realized that there are ways a person can remain true to his vow, and yet not be a murderer in order to keep it. It can be trying, I know, but there is always a third way. It is up to John Tat 2.0 now to find it.

    This is partly just memory. The scribe Paheri writes:

    You come in, you go out
    Your heart in joy at the praise of the lord of gods;
    A good burial after revered old age,
    After old age has come.
    You take your place in the lord-of-life,
    You come to the earth in the tomb of the west.
    To become indeed a living Ba,
    ...
    There is no fault in what is yours.
    Your heart is yours in very truth,
    You have your own, your former heart.
    You rise to heaven, you open dat,
    In any shape that you desire.

    (The stress is mine, btw.)

    These are the shades of what you have done, I think. Most people don't actually try to split themselves in two. Of course, you like it! Who would not want to be whole? And that is BB's best quality! By all means, keep it. But, stick up for John Tat too. He is not too shaby, himself. ;) He left them for a reason and he is ultimately the key to keeping BB in check.
     
    KenJ likes this.
  6. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Blueheart Thanks once again.. Its really great you are around

    The following is very likely the most important thing I have ever asked you.. I desperately need your clarity.. How can BB be in favor with the god and be a vital link in the return of the mothers of the gods... experienced the light and be connected to the light as he did in ancient Egypt and not be trusted in his judgments on what needs to be done? That question is driving John Tat nuts.. Please I need some clarity

    Regards
     
  7. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    BB is missing something, and that is you, John. You are equals in this conversation even though he's got the entire past in memory and you feel like you're always learning from him.

    He has much to learn from you, also.

    You are in favor with the gods. You are a vital link in the return of the mothers of the gods. This is true because BB is incomplete without you.

    So if you trust him too much (in a way that erases what makes you essential by letting him overwrite you completely) you're not doing him any favors. You have every right to stand up for what you think is moral and true. You must maintain your integrity at all costs, because it is your integrity that will make BB whole.

    This means that who you are will fill some gaps in BB's character or adjust his trajectory in a beneficial way. Think of a clock. It measures time for our convenience. But if it's missing a single gear, spring, or hand there will be errors in how it measures time no matter how perfectly constructed it is. You are the missing piece. It's his job to become a part of you, as well. You are equal.

    You can trust him the same way you trust anyone who is your equal--based on your own experience of him through time, and with the understanding that if it comes down to the line your integrity is more spiritually important than his expectations of you.

    Respect his knowledge and history, but always remember you have an important perspective and character traits that can be useful to the point of even helping him correct his alignment and timing. He needs to respect you for that reason. Don't just follow him blindly because doing that will blind you to your worth and the times when your contribution is essential can be lost if you don't stand up for them. You have an important role, too.

    The point of this interaction isn't to lose your core self, but to bring out the best in yourself so you can carry it forward and apply it to your future plans.
     
  8. Blueheart

    Blueheart Senior Member

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    Well, you must realize that I can not answer that for you. Sorry. I have some ideas, though. I agree with Mere Dreamer. Beyond that, the best person for you to sound out for advice is your Source. Given how you talk to him, I understand that this is problematic for you. Ask if you can speak to him in private. He should be able to accomplish that for you. It may take a few try's before you work out a method. Generally speaking, if you want stuff from them, especially when it is out of the norm, you have to ask.

    If it were me, I would try looking at things BB has said by picturing it coming out of the mouth of a full-of-himself teenager. Or, perhaps, an old-timer who is starting to lose touch with the way things are nowadays. In other words, I would not recommend ignoring him - which, anyway, you can't. I am not saying do not trust him or do not respect him.

    Just recall, teenagers are much more willing to dare. They shake things up. This is not always a bad thing.

    But, if it involves jumping off buildings, then John Tat has to be prepared to lay down some ground rules. So, for example: Demand if we are going to jump, then absolutely no pushing people off. No tricking people to jump, no underhanded dealings. That is a must. And, there must be a safety net.... Stuff like that.

    If they are making these plans now, as I suspect they are, with all of the attention on the who /what / where of the mothers ... You have every right to be a part of these conversations. (Normally, the 'you' over there would represent you.)
     
  9. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    I have taken sometime to reply to both Mere Dreamer and Blueheart about the relationship between John Tat and BB.. As you know I only report a fraction of what is going on and was has been happening over the past two weeks or so changes almost everything.. I'm left .... I don't know... reeling I suppose at what has happened.. At this point I will only talk about what I feel comfortable passing on
    It was very difficult... the first three times I meditated on the relationship between John Tat and BB I got nothing... On the fourth try it was one of those rare times it was as good as a connection I get... the fog to some degree is not there when I get a good connection
    I asked my source again....for the fourth time.... what is going on between me and BB..My source was furious He screamed at me... "Who are you?"... It was a vicious attack like "who in the hell do you think you are?" The following I was not sure if I should talk about it or not... I decided to because its important to who I'm just beginning to discover John Tat really is ...and some here on this forum deserve to know... When he said that to me.. I was filled with a rage you could never imagine...I have never felt such rage before...For reasons I don't understand I felt at that moment I could destroy my source if I wanted to... That's how I felt.. whether I could have or not I don't know.. but all I wanted to do at that moment was destroy him...I backed away when I understood if I did destroy my source I could no longer meditate with BB they both must be there.. As I said I don't know if I could have or not.. My source understood exactly what was going on I could feel the terror coming from him... BB said nothing
    As often happens and happened here there is very little back and forth between us.. but what does happen can be very meaningful and intense.. In this exchange other than my question I said nothing.... all my source said was "who are you?".. But a whole different and new standard and direction between us was established with these few words and my reaction to them that required no words
    That's all I want to talk about there was plenty more... except I should mention one thing... as soon as this exchange finished I saw my mother in the red dress... She was smiling at me... it felt like.. in complete approval of what had just happened ... she told me amongst many other things... tell them I must be your's and BB's mother again next time.. In a later meditation I told my source that ... he accepted that with not even asking me why?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  10. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    I'm now meditating mostly with BB.. my spiritual self... and now to a much lessor degree my source.. BB is guiding me and wants me to have a better understanding of the original physical sun gods who came to the tribes of the Nile and the effects they had not only on Ancient Egypt but also the modern gods and religions of today
    I'm no expert or scholar when it comes to the Hebrew god.. Almost everything I'm learning about him comes from my meditations and my knowledge of the sun gods comes exclusively from my meditations
    What has... I suppose shocked me is... in a recent meditation BB told me... remember when the gods arrived we had no idea who they were... we did not think of them as gods because they looked like us and we had no comparisons of gods to link them to..but later in a sacred ceremony they joined with some of us and part of them became part of us and part of us became part of them.. that's what they were to us..
    That changed everything and was the beginnings of the creation of the greatest people this world has seen.. "the others" who have not returned home are the only ones left with the seed of the gods in there spiritual selves
    I have no clue at all about the history of Israel and the Israelite's... that's far to complicated for me to even begin to attempt to understand... that not what BB is talking about.. he is talking about the gods
    The gods of today are modern gods who came thousands of years after the god's of Ancient Egypt
    To claim the Hebrew god was the creator of all things and then claim the texts of a,b. and c and so links them back to the creator does not make that religion and god an old god and religion
    Ancient Egyptians were claiming the exact same thing about there gods thousands of year earlier
    The interruptions of religions and god's are continually evolving...
    The Ancient Egyptians lost there way with the original sun gods who came to the tribes of the Nile...They created many false gods mostly by those in power for political reasons and control..
    They offended the gods and that in time lead to the destruction of Ancient Egypt
    I learnt from my mother in the red dress that I did not run away....I through the guidance of my mother abandoned them just as she did for what they had done and become.. They will in time pay a heavy price for what they did
    I'm just beginning to understand these are the two groups I have talked about before who are seeking control of our next time in the physical
    Horus-Ra..Hather...and Anubis are good examples of what I'm talking about ... BB told me they are just a few of the original physical sun gods who came to the tribes of the Nile...who over hundreds of centuries, even thousands of years of word of mouth communications evolved those names and also evolved into mystical Gods
    How that happened has direct links to the Hebrew god'
    I don't know how in depth the lineage of the Hebrew god has been examined...where did he come from and what were the circumstances that allowed him to evolve into the Hebrew god?
    that's what I'm attempting to find out through my meditations.. so I can compare the Hebrew god to the original sun gods who came to the tribes of the Nile
    I have got some more to go on with.. but it's all a bit of a jumble..I have plenty more to find out then I have the problems of putting it to paper
    From the little I currently understand... the Hebrew god did not magically appear.. The concept of a single god became popular with those in power had the Hebrew god evolved from one thing to another over a large amount of time in the physical
    When things become more clear I will go on with this
     
  11. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    The story of the Hebrews (and the Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam) really begins with Abraham. According to the Bible, he gets orders from deity to separate himself from the people he is with in Mesopotamia and go to Canaan and settle. (Chapt. 12, Genesis). Interestingly, before the chapter is over, he is in Egypt, and is there for some indeterminate period. In the next 12 chapters he is often visited by God, and in one interesting story, he is visited by God in the company of two others, who are identified as "angels" in the English version. All appear in the form of men. (Genesis, Chapt. 18). The dates of all of these events are obviously disputed by the "experts" who, at the modern "respectable" end of the spectrum doubt that such a person ever existed. Projected dates I have read in the past from more traditional scholars put him at around 1800 BC. A more traditional type I recently read seems to be pushing it back a millenium or so further, stating:

    "[Abraham] is usually dated to the Middle Bronze Age which was the Mesopotamian equivalent to the Ur III and Isin-Larsa periods. However, with the chronology of the ancient world coming under scrutiny it is only natural that the historical background of Abraham must be redated. Studies in ancient chronology now show that the life of Abraham was concurrent with the Early Dynastic Period in Mesopotamia, the Early Dynastic and Old Kingdoms in Egypt, and the Ebla Empire in Syria. The evidence related to Genesis 14 and Sodom and Gomorrah also supports the conclusion that Abraham lived during the Early Bronze Age/Early Dynastic Period."

    I'm not vouching for any of the above, but just thought that this background (much of it speculative) on Abraham and his story (as related in Genesis 12-25) might be of interest given your comments above.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  12. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S Thanks for that.... Its interesting that BB is guiding me to have an understanding about Yahweh... That is what he calls the Hebrew god... In the beginning I had no clue who he was talking about
    I went searching for Ywehar because that's what it sounded like to me.. After many tries of asking google who Ywehar was and altering the spelling around Yahweh came up
    I'm finding some things that I'm still debating if I should share a few of them or not... I certainly do not want to offend anyone
    From what has been communicated to me and my searches ...my guess is ....BB especially wants me to understand were Yahweh came from and how he came from the lineage of the sun gods... the gods of Ancient Egypt

    Regards
     
  13. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    Yes, "the LORD" has historically been substituted for the actual divine name. This began a very long time ago out of reverence for the divine name, though you sometimes see the anglicized version "Jehovah" in Bibles and hymns. I find it very interesting that BB brought the subject up, and that he uses the original "divine name" which most people (outside of Judaism at least) don't seem to know. Even then, there is some doubt as to whether that is the pronunciation of the name or not, as Hebrew is written without vowels. So, in the ancient Bible text all that is written is just the four consonants without vowels in-between, though the way BB is saying it makes a lot of sense and is accepted by most as correct. Part of the reason for its acceptance is that it has meaning in Hebrew. I have heard it interpreted as "I am that I am", "I am who I am", and even "I cause to be what is" (but you can look up that stuff yourself).

    In any case, I will not be offended by what you have to say. If I was that easily offended, I would have quit this thread a long time ago ;). However, I would definitely prefer that you simply refer to the "Hebrew God" or the like (maybe "HG") rather than use the divine name. Obviously, I don't give orders, but I would appreciate it as a personal courtesy. Otherwise, have at it, I haven't come this far to stop when something this interesting (to me) is being discussed.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  14. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S... there is so much coming through from BB and less from my source on all of this... I will post just a little at a time because that is all I can cope with on this... From now on I will refer to Yahweh as "Y" and the Hebrew god as "HG"
    The reason for this post is to explain why I will keep them separate as I go on.... From what I'm getting from BB.. my spiritual self.. they may be two in one....not so much as the concept of the physical and spiritual... but more like father and son.. with "Y" being the father.. If this is right then the whole concept and belief that the son of god has already arrived or is yet to arrive would be mute.
    It would also open up the possibility of how many more sons/daughters has "Y" got?
    The following is only a guess of mine....Is "Y" actually Ra or some other powerful sun god who came to the tribes of the Nile?... I make this guess based on ... BB and my source have always insisted the gods who came to the tribes of the Nile are the only true gods and BB has no problems acknowledging the existence of "Y"

    Regards
     
  15. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    Very interesting, especially coming from BB. The deeper you go into the "visitation" to ancient Egypt, who the "visitors" were, and what they had to do with the Hebrews, the more I think that BB (or the lady in red) is/are more reliable than your "source" for this type of thing. Your source seemed to have been good in terms of just introducing you to a lot of stuff regarding ancient Egypt, etc., but seemingly was on the wrong side--and promoted lies or half-truths--when it came to the really important things about the "gods". Considering the importance of the subject matter, this makes him seem less than trustworthy. It also gives me some insight into the reasons for BB's hostility towards him.

    I'll await further info on these subjects with interest.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--BTW, since we're dealing with ancient names, Abraham (and his original name Abram) are also anglicized versions of the original Hebrew names Avraham and Avram. Of course, how these names might be pronounced by an Egyptian or whether Avram also had an Egyptian name or names are open questions. I just thought I'd bring it up as BB might mention some other names (including these) that are hard to understand.
     
  16. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S It's interesting you picked up on my source... I have been aware for some time now... BB my spiritual self and my mother are the real experts when it comes to the gods... my source is a manipulator of gods for his own reasons.. BB has seen it all... he was there from the very beginning {as was my source) when the gods first came to the tribes of the Nile.. BB has seen everything about the gods evolve over thousands of years.. It's just horribly hard to get to most of it..

    Regards

    PS Something I just remembered when you were talking about names.. BB told me there was a great king of the people ""Y" used to help establish himself with the people.. Would this be a pharaoh... would you have any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 5:55 PM
  17. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    In terms of Bible kings, they don't start until King Saul, with King David and King Solomon being the next two (and to my mind, the greatest kings of Israel recorded in the Bible). However, I am thinking that BB would not be likely to give the title of "Great King" to a non-Egyptian ruler of a small kingdom. If he did, the legendary King Solomon would probably be the only one who might qualify, and he is the one who built the first great temple to Y in Israel.

    On the Egyptian side of things, I am wondering whether BB might be speaking about someone (a "Great King") hundreds of years earlier--Moses--who (according to Bible and legend) accomplished great wonders through the power of Y and brought great plagues on Egypt until the Pharaoh released the Hebrew slaves who then went on to conquer Canaan and establish the Kingdom of Israel. He was (once again according to the Bible) raised as a prince of Egypt and learned in all of the arts of the Egyptians. His name is supposedly based in the Egyptian language. As explained in Wikipedia:

    He is said to have received it from the Pharaoh's daughter: "he became her son. She named him Moses (Moshe), saying, 'I drew him out (meshitihu) of the water.'" This explanation links it to a verb mashah, meaning "to draw out", which makes the Pharaoh's daughter's declaration a play on words."

    There are some recent authors that postulate that Moses was in fact the pharaoh Akhenaten (which I think is a theory that came up before on this thread). I consider that idea to be pretty far out myself, but here is a site you could start with and there are more if you want to look into the idea:

    https://grahamhancock.com/moses-akhenaten-same-person-osman/

    There is a briefer and more sober account here: http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/...cient-near-eastern-world/akhenaten-and-moses/

    I note that a free e-book can be downloaded on the last site giving more information, so that might also be of some interest. Anyhow, those are the first things that come to mind.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  18. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi S&S we have been over the Moses thing before,, As I said before... after numerous attempts with both BB and my source neither gave me any indications such a person ever existed.. I certainly do not mean any disrespect by saying that... I thought BB was referring to an Egyptian king that why I said it
    This is something interesting I have found.... I'm sure you have heard about it...It's widely excepted, except for the scholars of the religions that word Amen is a derivative of the word Amun the all powerful Ancient Egyptian sun god.. I wanted to know the exact meaning of derivative so I looked it up on the online oxford dictionary... they say the meaning of derivative is...originated from... based on or influenced by
    It would appear that at some point Amun was changed to Amen and the meaning of Amen was created at the same time...Then on a later search I found Amun was also spelt Amen... which is interesting
    It cannot be assumed that because of this the religions of today are showing respect to the Ancient Egyptian sun god Amun... But what it does show is....that at some point Y the HG had and still has links to the sun gods of Ancient Egypt
    I thought to myself... this is something the scholars would have gone to great lengths to show this is not what happened.. They would have had to do there best to rid the religions of such a connection
    I searched for there answers... The first that came up was.. its purely coincidental... make of that what you will... then I began to read article after article and passages from the bible on where Amen came from... none of which were facts... you needed faith to believe any of it... As I have said before I have great difficult comprehending complicated written words... this was a real chore for me
    In my opinion its more than obvious that Amun also spelt Amen and Amen with both having religious connections are connected..
    I have got more from BB I will post at another time

    Regards
     
  19. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,

    As previously noted, I can think of only a limited number of individuals in the history of Israel that could be considered to be instrumental in setting up the worship of Y and might also be considered a Great King from the Egyptian standpoint. Moses is the most obvious, but he would probably not be known by that name in Egypt. According to the Bible, he was not formally a "king", but he was the leader of all and a great prophet of Y (with whom Y was said to converse in a way that was as close as that of man to man, face to face). From your remarks, it also sounds like BB rejects the idea that some scholars have put forth claiming Akhenaten is the real person upon whom the "Moses" stories and legends are based. Otherwise, I'm kind of at a loss. Avram/Abram/Abraham is there at the very beginning, and the very beginning with him might go back to some of the earliest eras of Egypt's recorded history, but though he became a very wealthy patriarch who was (by Bible accounts) widely respected even by the local kings in Canaan (and treated with some respect in Egypt as well), he was never a king to my knowledge. Soloman was a king of great wealth and local power, and remains a figure of legend throughout the middle east, but otherwise I'm at a loss. You probably need to get more identifying information from BB.

    In terms of Amen being derived from Amun/Amen, that is an interesting theory. From a brief reading of ideas on the matter, I can't say that it is proven, and is certainly not a mainstream or largely accepted view. I suppose it makes as much sense as theories I heard earlier linking it to a sacred Hindu word/sound--"Aum" or "Om". In both cases, I can't really see much sense in the arguments. It is a bit like arguing that most people today worship ancient gods because the days of the week are named after these gods, as are some of the months. There may be some linkage some where way back when, but the Hebrew religion from its origins and its successors are so adamantly opposed to such a thing that it doesn't really hold water.

    Part of the problem is that everyone typically writes their own histories with themselves as the heroes. An Egyptian looking at the Hebrews records of their history and accomplishments might well be both amused and aghast at what he would see as grotesque misrepresentations, especially with regard to Egypt. A Hebrew would probably react the same way to a reading of history from the Egyptian perspective. It is tough to sort these things out from a distance in time and culture. However, the real underlying facts are there, somewhere. I hope that BB can ultimately set forth enough facts/surrounding circumstances that some of the things he is alluding to will become clear.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--I should probably add that I do not totally discount the possibility of a linkage between Amun/Amen and the Hebrew word Amen, its just that the similarity alone is not sufficient in a situation like this to me. More underlying facts are needed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017 at 11:18 AM
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    John,

    Something else just occurred to me. Soloman was said to have married the daughter of Pharaoh. Most scholars consider this to be extremely improbable, as the Egyptian Royalty did not (unlike other royalty) marry off princesses of the royal family to cement alliances. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh's_daughter_(wife_of_Solomon)

    There is even some suggestion that this story about Soloman is based on Amenhotep III. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phara...mon)#Parallels_with_Amenhotep_III_and_Sitamun

    Interestingly, Amenhotep III was the father of Akhenaten. How this all relates, I don't know. Just thought you should know.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     

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