Reincarnation and the Bible

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by Charles Stuart, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha New Member

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    First the judging part - No parent would judge His/Her own children, but a Master will. No parent would torture or abuse his kids, but a Master will. A servant makes a mistake and he will be punished, whether it was an honest mistake or not. A master does not care whether the mistake was made innocently or not, he will punish just because the mistake was made, whereas no parent would do such a thing. A parent is more interested in making sure the child learns from his/her mistake, punishment is a last resort, a master doesn't care about making his slaves/servant learning anything

    Your post clearly shows that your God is a Master and you are a slave/servant. You still view God as a Master & that is where you get your talk about punishment & mercy - these are slave/servant ideas - ideas coming from ancients who lived under brutal kings/dictators and learned to obey their masters and knew if they made a mistake they would be whipped or punished otherwise
    Sadly, such ideas are still in currency even today.
    I would ask Christians to please stop saying, "Our father, thou art...." & please use, "Our Master, thou art..." which is more appropriate

    At no time in your post did you ask how the victim feels about all this judging and stuff - where is the justice for the victim? You talk about an eye for an eye - guy does something bad in the previous life and in this life he is blind? Care to walk over to a hospital and tell kids suffering from cancer that it is all their doing?

    An eye for an eye is vengeance, not justice. In how many lives must Hitler be blind to make up for what he did? And how does that help his victims in any way? And what about all the hate that Jews endured before Hitler - say the middle ages? or even before, for 2000 years? Hate against jews did not start with Hitler, we know that.

    And what about animals? Does their suffering matter?
    Do you know that pigs and chickens are kept in cages where they cannot even move? Why? Because you know what happens when you move or exercise, your muscles will harden, but if you just sit or sleep or do not exercise, your body becomes soft and that is the meat that we want, so these poor animals get to live in a cage their entire lives! Do you eat meat? Then you are guilty of such evil
    Bird hunters sit in the bush and blast off shots in the air when they see birds - some lucky birds will die instantly, the unlucky ones will get injured and die a slow death. Their offspring waiting in the nest will starve to death. Fun for bird hunters, not so much for the victims
    By this count there should be a lot more blind people, shouldn't there be?
     
  2. LookingFor

    LookingFor New Member

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    Halo,

    in my post is not said about my believing in God being so or so. It is just said about my experience with asking God. It is talked about PEOPLE's behaviour to punish.

    This does not change God punishs people either because they choosed so (when they were talking to God before being born on earth for example) or because it is needed.

    So I do not get the point of your post referring to my post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  3. LookingFor

    LookingFor New Member

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    It is even talked about God PREVENTING them to punish by not gving the whole knowledge to everybody.
     
  4. glia21

    glia21 Explorer

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    Hi lookingfor,
    I was reading your threat, and have a question - do you believe that if someone is blind/deaf/handicapped in any way that this is punishment by god? It sounded like this.
     
  5. LookingFor

    LookingFor New Member

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    Halo glia21 :)

    You ask for my personal belief, right? In the post about me asking God is only my experience. It is different from what I am writing now, because what I am writing now are my personal beliefs not true experience.

    I have a more complicated opinion on that. You could get ill, you could suffer here on earth. And this is a fact you can't deny. So there could be severeal explanations for this phenomenon. For example you could pray and be healed. You could also pray with no effect at not be healed! So here starts the question, does God punish me?

    I also believe in different possibilities. From christian-orthodox view you are ill to focus on your inner self, to ged rid of your sins, to be purified to fly in a happy clean soul to heaven! This is a priority here on earth before being happy most important is how you fly to heaven/to God and how God meets you. You could be very happy of have been ill in regarding backwards at your earth existence, when you HAPPILY met God!

    Also it could be your soul wanted to punish yourself and asked God on a very high level of your soul to be punished like that, you might not remember this here on earth and it is hard to believe. Also it could be that you believe in karma and your soul asked it to have payed for your sins to be happy in the future or even future lives, depending weather you reincarnate or stay in heaven or else something.

    Also it could be you harmed another soul that wants revenge and to please this person you accepted to be ill. Most of the time God does not put something on you your soul did not agree on a high level and you do not remember it. Still it does not change if somebody harms you this is a sinful soul that went off the true roads and will get it's karma, too. So in case of rape does not mean the raper is out of sin!

    Approximately like I explain it to myself. I remember lives where I had braincancer, and what I learned during this life was that God decides every part of my brain beeing this or like this and how I feel. So I completely learned the feeling to be in the hands of God. My soul was so puriefied it flyed happily to God. But I guess most people suffer more from cancer than I did in that life.

    Unfortunately suffering is part of our lives. It would be no good to deny this! Better to help each other to deal with it!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  6. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha New Member

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    In some countries they cut off people's hands for thievery - used to happen a lot before, but we at least those in the western world don't do that now, but yet when it comes to religion we remain primitive
    If your kid breaks his friend's toy in a fit of anger - what would you do? Would you not tell him to go buy a new toy coming out of his allowance & deliver it to his friend with an apology? That is because you are his parent
    A Master on the other hand, will cruelly beat his servant for any mistakes
    Your God is a Master - but that is how the ancients viewed God - they lived under Kings/Dictators who rewarded loyalty and obedience & that was their template for God
    Even in the 21st century you are blindly following their ideas

    Reincarnation is an opportunity to make up for the mistakes you have made in the past life
    If you cheated someone of money & you regret it later, you must go and return the money with interest - that is Justice
    Kicking yourself or punishing yourself does nothing for the victim - that is not justice

    What Hinduism is saying is that God is our Parent - we are given another chance to correct our past mistakes
    You view God as a Master and hence your words are different - you use slave/servant words
     
  7. The last age.

    The last age. Active Member

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    Excellent and there is an unfolding precise plan behind what happens and if it is not the 'time' for God to reveal everything then we will
    just have to wait and be patient .We have many lessons to learn ,among them 'faith ' and love above knowledge .
    If humanity had been allowed to use nuclear power before society based on God's law as much as possible ,then there would be no one alive
    to finish the story God has planned for those He loves .
    The church in spite of imperfect people was given the central truth that Jesus is God and that He is part of a trinity (seen in the stars )
    and only He through the Holy Spirit had the power to 'save humanity '.
     
  8. The last age.

    The last age. Active Member

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    I sense that you are genuine , and what you witness to is true . I hope you don't mind but I looked up your date of birth ,not knowing the
    time which would normally be better ,but even without that ,you have some powerful signs of true spiritual insight ,and so my 'instinct' from the Holy Spirit seems accurate .:)
     
  9. The last age.

    The last age. Active Member

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    Well why do you think God gave the Christian west so much knowledge in the last part of the last age ,but not to India .Maybe they have something
    wrong .As for the master /parent relationship ,humanity lost this relationship by making war on God and bringing the whole of Creation into melt down. Jesus restored the possibility of repairing our relationship , and most Christians see God as a parent .
    Some people just make mistakes ,or are greedy ,and can they learn ,but others are in DEFIANCE against God wishing to bring down His natural
    and good laws ,they are determined and have knowledge ,and it is their main purpose in existence to make creation in their own image .
    "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood ,but against the rulers the authorities ,against the powers of this dark world ,and against the spiritual
    forces of Evil in the heavenly realms ".

    He is both master of the Universe , and He is Abba to those who love Him , but time is running out for learning , at least in the west .
     
  10. Martin Luger

    Martin Luger New Member

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    I think in time people will begin to find that; The Abyss, The Bardo (Buddhism), The Second Death, The Valley of Death, The Original Sin, and conception (“Jour de la mort, mis en nativite/ Day of the death, becomes immaculate birth,” Nostradamus) are all one in the same.

    One could then argue that to overcome these things is indeed the path to Eternal Life. Consider being able to consciously remember this life as clearly as you can now in your next life, as soon as you are born. The apparent death of consciousness has been completely and utterly obliterated.

    I see this as a pursuit; an evolution of human consciousness. Only to be obtained when people begin to “look within” to find the Eternal Light which already exists as so many beautiful people are doing here in this forum.

    Well, that is my interpreatation of the Bible and Reincarnation. Reincarnation is just a stepping stone on the path towards something far greater for the human spirit. Not something we have lost, but something we are evolving into.
     
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  11. 373

    373 Member

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    “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

    I heard it said that this means this: everyone born of the spirit gets to CHOOSE where and when they are born. You cannot tell from where they came or where they go because of this. Those not born of the spirit do not get to choose where and when they are born
     
  12. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    But what do the terms "born of the spirit " and "not born of the spirit" actually mean in a practical (or even theoretical) sense?
     
  13. 373

    373 Member

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    If you yourself are not a religious person I hope this doesn’t step on your toes. I take it to mean those who died having received the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ are born of the spirit in the next life. Those who have died without a faith in Christ are not born of the spirit. That is my opinion on the matter. Thanks for the question! Glad to have some activity on here
     
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  14. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Not a problem. I'm grateful for your answer, it helps.

    As it happens I'm not religious, but culturally I come from a background where I am familiar with Christianity. I respect those for whom it is important, it just doesn't work for me. I'm not trying to argue for or against, merely mentioning it as background. In my most recent past life I tangled with religion rather too much, I think it's my place to be somewhat more distant this time - no need to repeatedly play out the same role, a change for me was needed.

    I do have a concept of God, but that is a separate matter for me personally.
     
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  15. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Active Member

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    I think the doctrine of reincarnation was a part of the original Christian religion.

    Just as the Ebionites insisted strictly on a vegetarian diet, the early Christian gnostic sects as well as Origen also taught about the concept of reincarnation.

    It is quite possible that reincarnation as a teaching was there in the early christian scriptures, which were possibly edited out by the romans in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople as it conflicted with their own ideas and sensibilities about spirituality. St. Jerome had criticized Origen's views on reincarnation in his writings.

    The tampering and editing of the christian scriptures by the romans to suit their ideas and sensibilities of spirituality and obedience to the roman state, when they finally adopted Christianity after centuries of brutal persecution of christians, could also be a reason for the seeming incoherence of Christian scriptures as viewed at present by some.
     
  16. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Tbe biggest tampering with the scriptures was by Paul, wasn't it? If we try to look at what Jesus taught, it is quite different to Paul's ideas. In my opinion of course. Others are free to reach alternative viewpoints.
     
  17. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Active Member

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    Yeah, I consider Jesus to be an enlightened master and it was possibly his direct disciples who were able to connect with him better. It is the state of consciousness that is a better teacher than the intellectual teachings in a book.

    Paul had never met Christ , and like the romans had persecuted the christians for a long time, and it could have been hard for him to properly comprehend the teachings when he finally converted, with a narrow mindset and character as such.

    Islamic scholars and the deist Thomas Jefferson had also accused Paul of corrupting the original revealed teachings and doctrine of Christ. But I would say the Romans have also played a major role in this corruption and modification of the original Christian religion, to create the incoherent and confusing belief system most people perceive it as at present.
     
  18. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Active Member

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    Recounting my own example here as a case study.

    I had read the bible when I was 16, and I was quite fascinated by Jesus's sweetness and character though I could make no coherent sense out of the bible or Christianity.

    Later on , decades later as I made a deep study of Advaita, Buddhism, Jainism, Sufism , Taoism and other traditions, I surprisingly found that when I read the bible this time around, I could make a lot of sense out of it. The philosophical depth in his teachings showed me that Jesus could have actually existed and is not just a fictitious figure as some state him to be.

    So I would say that Jesus and the bible can be a source of wisdom and insights for those who are entrenched in the eastern philosophical teachings, as in seeing the same teachings from a different angle or perspective, which can help in better spiritual understanding.

    It requires a subtle intellect to understand the biblical teachings and metaphors of Christ, which has a lot of deeper meaning, and which cannot be grasped by just the literal interpretation of the bible.

    Such a literal interpretation can be dangerous, imho, as the christian sect of Skoptsy's who misinterpreted purity with self-maiming and castration.That is ludicrous and absurd as the sexual energy is needed for spiritual creativity , development and enlightenment as well. An impotent person cannot be creative.

    Some literally take the devil as an external entity, when the issue is just the weak, negative mind out of self-control and direction. The weak, negative oriented mind is the devil, but people look for it externally with fear. Excess of fear in this regard and also with misinterpreted teachings of eternal hellfire can also lead to mental health issues, which can be counter-productive spiritually.

    So the present bible should be understood in its right context, so that it can be a valuable tool for spiritual empowerment in the right hands, failing which it can be unfortunately detrimental to actual spiritual growth.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020

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