Reincarnation baffles me

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jim78, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I think about the life lessons I've learned and I wonder why myself or anyone else has to learn them in the first place? Since, in the lives between lives, we are at peace and our higher selves are more aware of where we went wrong than we could ever hope of being aware of on Earth, then why do we have to come to a place of war, disease, mortality and hunger to learn something we will know on the other side anyway? Why do we need the human experience? Are we so at peace on the other side that we can't think for ourselves? Do we need the illusion of separation from all that is so that we can form our own moral core more in line with divine law? If that's true then how can our higher selves possibly know more than the sum of our earthbound experiences? If so then how can our souls be our higher selves?

    Knowing that reincarnation is real still throws up many questions for me. If we are here to evolve and learn what are we evolving into? If we're here to learn lessons then what exactly are we doing on the other side? Running around manifesting our dreams and nothing else? Why is any of this necessary?
     
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  2. glia21

    glia21 explorer21

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    i´m pretty sure we wanted and yearned to be here in the first place. here on earth you can experience things you simply can´t elsewhere. we are adventurers :) I mean humor for example -- I believe it´s a unique thing and I appreciate it very much. Good humor, fun - a good laugh. Also all these different nuances in emotions. Deep emtions like hate - mercy - love - All I read and remembered about the life in between it´s nothing like that elsewhere. So altogether sure you´ve got to evolve and after some time I can imagine everyone wants to get out of here. What´s beyond won´t be so easy to find out. In Robert Monroes book which goes very much d`accord with me he speaks of the big oneness we´re going to evolve into to become whole again. Might be. Just my 2 cents ;-)
     
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  3. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I for one don't want to evolve into oneness. I'm an individualist. I don't see how I yearned to be here when I was at peace. If I was at peace why would I have a yearning? I've also learned that those in the spirit world can experience a wide range of emotions but they are at peace. They are backstage seeing the roles and the play unfolding. Very little that was on Earth matters to them in my experience except love. Since they are at peace and drawn to incarnate like moths to a flame I'm still baffled as to why anyone would need to go through this earthbound morality play to learn what is obvious already when one is in spirit. I know reincarnation is real so I'm not questioning that, but I don't know why we have to experience anything when this isn't even our 'real' lives. What's the point?
     
  4. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    No soul in their right mind would want to experience the following:

    1. War
    2. Rape
    3. Brutality
    4. Torture / abuse
    5. Emotional anguish
    6. Discrimination
    7. Failure
    8. Loneliness.

    It's ok, I'll pass. I don't think it's necessary for me to experience all of these things to gain enlightenment. In fact, I don't want to be that enlightened anyway. I just want a peaceful, easy life. Asking too much?

    Jim78 asks a very legitimate question. I've been thinking about this recently too. What's the point of all this "need to experience everything" business? No soul in their right mind would want to experience losing a limb, getting disease, hunger, abuse, etc....
     
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  5. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    I found Seth-Roberts and Abraham-Hicks books very interesting, very thought provoking. I just googled for Abraham first book "A New Beginning I", and found a .pdf copy online. I particularly recommend browsing the second half of the book, which is a Q&A section.
     
  6. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I just don't see why we have to come here to learn lessons when we are already aware of what we should be doing when we are in spirit justin.
     
  7. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    What did you find interesting about it baro san? I'm already reading a book at the moment.
     
  8. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    Both Seth and Abraham state that we really create our reality, everyone of us creates their own reality, and can't create anything in anybody else's reality, just influencing in a certain degree the others' thinking.

    Starting from this premise, they give a different perspective, and thought provoking answers, to the questions we all ask, including the questions you raised here. It is definitely better for one to read them, and think about, by themselves than to read others' interpretations. I remember that Abraham's Q&A section is only about 50 pages.
     
  9. Native Son

    Native Son Active Member

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    Apparently, you must not be in your right mind. Why? Logically speaking, you are here, along with the rest of us out-of-our-right-minds souls. If you don't know why you find yourself in this world of war, rape, brutality, torture, abuse, emotional anguish, failure, loneliness, etc., you have better get to it, and find out quickly. Otherwise you will be making another visit back here, very soon. But you need to ask yourself a question before you will find your way. And finding the right answer to the question is your only way of knowing why in "hell" you are here. I use the pun of hell, because you only see yourself surrounded by hellish conditions, and have ignored the heavenly conditions; peace, charity, caresses, laughter, success, friendship, love, companionship, compassion, etc. Life here on earth is a matter of balance. Therefore it is a question of Balance. I heard it said that, "we do not know what we have until we lose it." Think about that for a good while! Are you looking for someone to tell you what you are doing here? Well, it's a miracle you are looking for, because only God knows anything 100%. And as far as I know, He is the Only ONE that can do miracles. Knock and it shall be opened...eventually. But not before you are able to answer a thousand million questions.

    Why do we never get an answer
    When we're knocking at the door
    With a thousand million questions
    About hate and death and war?
    'Cause when we stop and look around us
    There is nothing that we need
    In a world of persecution
    That is burning in its greed
    Why do we never get an answer
    When we're knocking at the door?
    Because the truth is hard to swallow
    That's what the war of love is for
    It's not the way that you say it
    When you do those things to me
    It's more the way that you mean it
    When you tell me what will be
    And when you stop and think about it
    You won't believe it's true
    That all the love you've been giving
    Has all been meant for you

    I'm looking for someone to change my life
    I'm looking for a miracle in my life
    And if you could see what it's done to me
    To lose the love I knew
    Could safely lead me through
    Between the silence of the mountains
    And the crashing of the sea
    There lies a land I once lived in
    And she's waiting there for me
    But in the grey of the morning
    My mind becomes confused
    Between the dead and the sleeping
    And the road that I must choose

    I'm looking for someone to change my life
    I'm looking for a miracle in my life
    And if you could see what it's done to me
    To lose the love I knew
    Could safely lead me to
    The land that I once knew

    To learn as we grow old
    The secrets of our soul


    Don't be baffled, take a look around yourself...what do you see besides the negatives you have pointed out? But remember that the TRUTH is hard to swallow!

     
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  10. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Baro san once I remembered reincarnation I realised that I had created my own reality all along. How I impacted others in my lives was a manifestation of my own self. My ego, my thinking, my judgements...everything. It actually screwed up my mind, to realise my own self is manifested for all to see. I find it really embarrassing to be honest. I still don't get why I had to learn this stuff on Earth when I would know it when I'm in spirit anyway though.
     
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  11. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    Our higher / inner selves incarnated on Earth, willingly, in order to improve their creative skills, as part of their evolving quest that has an infinite potential.

    Once we get here, on Earth, we lose our discernment under the influence of the human society, we practically sever our connection to our higher /inner selves, and most of us end up with very little progress, if any, reason for which we reincarnate over and over an enormous number of times, most of the time experiencing unnecessary suffering.

    Understanding that we continuously create our own reality, both good and bad, that we can't create others' realities, as they can't create our reality, and purposefully reopening our connection to our own higher / inner selves, is the way to reverse our incarnation wasting.
     
  12. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Jim,

    Maybe this will be helpful. It was an image/analogy I was given back in the days I was doing TM ala Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in the 70s:

    In the old fashioned way of dying cloth, the final color doesn't fade like modern artificial colors, but the process is very slow. The plain fabric is dipped into the dye vat and while it is there it is saturated and is/becomes the same color as its surroundings, and even keeps that color when it is brought back out into the air and light to dry, for a bit. However, a lot of the dye from the vat immediately drips off and then as the cloth dries in the light what is left fades until it is no longer or only barely visible after the first dip. Then it is dipped again, dried again, dipped again, dried again, over and over again. Each time, a little bit more of the color remains in the cloth. Finally, there comes a time after innumerable repetitions of this cycle when the cloth, whether in the dye vat or in the open air and light remains the same color as the dye--unchanging and permanently colored, matching the color of the dye.

    Well, I grew disillusioned with the Maharishi for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean that he didn't pick up and disseminate a lot of good stuff, stories, tales, analogies and so-forth he had received from his own teachers and others, who I think may have been far more "dyed" and "color-fast" than he was, and indeed may have retained the true color from the dye vat. As you can see, this analogy works in various ways. First, the cycle of earth life and spirit world on a macro level is a cycle between the heavenly "vat" and the harsh light of this world. (I realize that a "vat" is a bad analogy for the spirit realms, but you get the point). Second, for those who do deep meditation or have other practices to accelerate the "dyeing" process, the idea is repeated on a micro level--with little mini-dips into similar strata of consciousness instead of a visit to the celestial realms.

    As to the deeper reason, it is also in the analogy. We are not really and truly what we are while in heavenly realms until we are permanently and unalterably the same while we are in the earthly realms as well. When we are within the field of influence of the "source" and as we move closer to the "source" we are like little iron filings that line up near a magnet or like the cloth in the dye vat. We are under the influence and within the aura of a vastly more powerful spirit, and we align just like the little iron filings (or, alternately, take on the same "color" of our surroundings in the vat)--while we are there. But what about when we move away? We are not truly what we can and should be until we are that always no matter what environment we enter. This is the permanent change that is taking place.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  13. Foram

    Foram New Member

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    I have the exact same question Jim78. If we are already enlightened and are our higher selves in that realm that why do we have to improve by reincarnating and learning to get to the level where we already are!
     
  14. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I like the analogy S&S. Thanks to the contributors, this is an interesting discussion. ~T
     
  15. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Well my creative skills seem to lie in war. Why would I need to improve those skills when war isn't something that matters to a soul at peace in the afterlife?

    I don't think I've progressed much. I've done the same thing for eons...but why generally have amnesia of past lives? Surely it would make more sense to remember that your here to progress? Why the ignorance?

    I have realised that I create my own reality, but that places the blame squarely on my shoulders. Why am I soley responsible when for eons I knew nothing of reincarnation,not until a few years ago?
     
  16. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    That's a good analogy S&S but it would also have to assume that our higher and our earth selves must arrive at some communion with one another in order to evolve. Why have both higher and lower selves present on earth and why is that important to our higher selves/ I don't see the point.
     
  17. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Jim,

    I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll go forward based on what I think you mean. Obviously, it goes without saying that I am only repeating what I have heard that sounded sensible to me. I claim no first-hand knowledge about things. However, I have felt that Michael Newton's books had the ring of truth, though I think some things were withheld from him. My recall (as it has been awhile since I read them) is that we are never completely "absent" from the spirit realm. Returning "souls" reporting their experiences in returning to their soul group report that others who were still incarnate were also present, but apparently only semi-responsive as their attention is absorbed almost completely by the human life they are engaged in. My best analogy would be an adolescent completely involved in their cell-phone and generally oblivious to what is going on around them. However, in the case of souls, it appears that they are, for the most part REALLY locked in to what they are doing on earth, rather than merely voluntarily ignoring their surroundings to do something they would rather be doing. (There may be exceptions in terms of that LOCK, as there almost always are exceptions to everything). Likewise, there is apparently some type of real division of our energy, as we seemingly send a portion of our energy/soul/spirit to incarnate, almost acting like a remote probe that must return and be re-united to the part of us that remains in the spirit realm for us to be whole. Don't ask me to defend the proposition, I'm merely trying to give a report on what others have said.

    Why is it important to our higher selves (which are actually are "real" selves) to be doing this? I think that is what my last post is about. In terms of amnesia, that is apparently something we bind ourselves to in coming here (to some degree or another). It gives us a relatively fresh start, it also keeps us from revenging ourselves on each other for what we did to each other in past lives, etc. There is enough of that anyway. But the question of our forced (or voluntary) amnesia is one of those topics that has been batted around over and over again. (It's a bit like cross-gender incarnation questions o_O). So, there's probably a dozen threads that could be reactivated if we're going to talk on that one.

    Some of your angst seems to come from the fact that, to paraphrase, you "really don't want to practice war no mo'" but don't really have yourself trained temperamentally to do anything else in earth life. Hence, being here now means being in a place where you find yourself inevitably repeating a life script you no longer want to engage in, and not really knowing how to (or maybe feeling suited to) do anything else.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  18. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    In my thoughts I keep coming back to this as a place (earth) to test what we have learned, to understand all aspects of it, not merely the belief, at least this is part of my excuse for not remembering like you and others seem to be able to do. I keep thinking about being back to a place where I will not experience pain, fear, anxiety, bodily needs, bodily pleasures, sickness, property maintenance, financial concerns, my current interaction with my loved ones, and my body-attached ego. And, like you wonder about the reason for it all - what part(s) of those things were primary in my current incarnation?

    I have known quite a few people (probably me included) who have been raised to understand certain principles that they live by and believe in, but have no deep understanding about because they mainly have knowledge without the experience that requires the use of judgment. That does not truly express what I'm feeling - I'll try again. Learning that stealing something from someone is wrong is quite a bit different from the experience of having something stolen from you. Yet, stealing the enemy's code book might be something altogether different, and, is it a terrible thing to steal second-base?

    So, with having maybe a thousand incarnations and perhaps five or six remembered as being similar, there may be some details that require further understanding.

    I further think that the fact that your remembered lives seem to be similar is because there are details there for you to yet understand rather than being an characteristic of your soul.
     
  19. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Jim, Thanks for an interesting and informative thread. In regard to the warrior spirit... I have always known that I was, in spirit and actuality, a warrior. From past lives as cops and soldiers to the very same thing in this life. I've always had the ability and strength to enter fights, I have no fear. I left the army and went right to work as a police officer in a major city. I was good at my job and, like in the service, made sergeant. That title and job seems to be apart of me in a deeply spiritual and past life way... its innate. But now as an old man :eek:, and one who has retreated from civilization to find a deeper meaning, I have found the warrior spirit takes on newer meanings. It made no sense to me for the longest time, until I was on a retreat in the mountains with a guru of a teacher, and a cadre of very enlightened beings. As part of my retreat in the wilderness I saw a shaman/somatic masseuse in a one-on-one encounter. This woman had never met me or known me prior, but after a few minutes into our session she said to me, you are a warrior, I see it in your body and feel it in your spirit. She went on to say that my spirit was in transition, it was tired, it wanted to put aside the sword. She could not have been more accurate. I was tired, I was weary, I was struggling to find meaning and purpose, and much like you, I questioned the validity and purpose of life. It seemed to me, then, to be a pointless pursuit... all was frivolous. But her wisdom won me over when she said, "your spirit wants to evolve into a creative and compassionate entity, and your current pursuit in the humanities is a manifestation of that." After the session I was as confused as ever, but over the course of the week a light came on in my head, it was dim and fuzzy at first, but grew brighter with every discussion with her. I have always been an artist, a writer, a philosopher, and thinker. Academically I have honed this innate sense of being into very real and wonderful pursuits. According to that sacred woman I needed to allow those traits of creativity and compassion to manifest into the world... thus my conundrum, I would not let the warrior rest, nor create.

    In the many subsequent years I have, to my personal betterment, allowed the old sergeant to rest, recognizing his spiritual age and needs. Now as a teacher, mentor, counselor, artist... I feel free. I can see hope where before there was only a battle to fight. I can see art where before it was merely commodity, I see beauty in people like never before. I adapted into a Buddhist life style, and funny thing is, in the Shambhala lineage that I follow, the warrior spirit is a profound philosophy of peaceful abidance. The warrior of sword and rifle is now a warrior of compassion and discernment. It was not easy, and everyday is a lesson. But I suppose I would tell you this, life is a journey for our spirit and being. We are here to understand that in a very human way. As we nurture our souls in this mortal life we enhance and propagate the soul to ever higher dimensions. Why? Who knows... and that is my question too. Perhaps it has to do with the state of the world, the environment, and politics. Darkness in society is reaching beyond our ability to sustain peaceful coexistence, with each other and indeed the earth. Creation needs peace warriors now more than ever. As my journey into this troubled world continues, I've never been at a deeper peace. And, as I face my final few years, I know my purpose is not "ME" my purpose is all of creation, and my duty is love and compassion. The Buddhists call this Bodhisattva, to serve others towards enlightenment. I'm not always good at it, I fail at times, but as I fail I grow.

    Blessings on your journey, I'm happy you are looking.

    ~Tman, (fellow seeker and warrior)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Tman,

    Great post! I think the recent discussions in the Patton thread shed some additional light on the warrior spirit and the need for such spirits in the world--at least so long as the wolves remain. Your post may be what Jim needs right now, an idea of what comes next, and how a weary warrior may take the next step: Not rejecting a warrior past as evil and unnecessary so much as setting it gently aside for the next phase and moving on.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     

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