Reincarnation baffles me

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jim78, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Dorothy.. I appreciate and understand everything you are saying What frustrates when this topic is being discussed... its ignored what I have said many times is totally ignored... BB IS ME.... How many times do I have to say that?... he is not an intruder ... he is me.. BB is my higher/spiritual self.. It appears to me as long as a higher/spiritual self fits a description that is acceptable then everything is ok..when he does not then something must be terribly wrong.. I/BB most certainly is not evolving to what appears to be acceptable to others.. I have said this before I/BB have an extremely violent side to us.. not in this incarnation but others over many incarnations.. I have seen this violent side we have in my memories of previous incarnations.. on the other hand we can be benevolent and caring .. I have also seen that in my memories... Maybe there must be a balance.. I have thought about that.. A balance were some spirits are one thing and others have various different ways... I'm sure there are many forms... From my own experiences I believe its were we came from..and what were our experiences in the physical.. we learn as we go I think we all agree with that.. We our spiritual selves have had varied experiences in the physical... its not possible for us all to be the same.. some are evolving for good other evolving for balance.. which I believe I/BB is... and others are evolving for evil.. I believe balance is the most important of all.. chaos must end... balance must be restored... that's what I/BB is all about... that is what we do.. I have no illusions about who I am.. I'm not all pure and good far from it... BB/I can be very violent... but BB/ I can also be very caring and benevolent

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  2. WriteNow

    WriteNow New Member

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    Reincarnation baffles me too in the way that religions baffle me: okay, so this divine thing was perfect...yet it yearned to experience more? Then it wasn't perfect or perfectly happy. And: the only way to experience more was to allow for true horrors? That's weird because a three year old can spend an hour experience no negative feeling of any kind whatsoever, playing, and learn TONS from joyful pain free play, and get TONS of new experience and sensation.

    But that really is the Big Question, isn't it? We "need" to go through all this to be perfect - why, if the divine spark was already perfect? We "want" to be able to have experiences including horrific ones - why? Why not just loads of not-horrific experiences? It can't be that we wouldn't know what happiness was without unhappiness to compare it to as supposedly the divine source knew love before there ever was hate, so it IS possible to "know" very positive things with nothing negative to compare them to.

    We have to be perfect and complete again to be part of the Source - why if we are literally a part of the Source? The perfect Source "wanted" to experience...how can anything want if it is perfect? Want literally means lack. If it lacked...things weren't perfect. If it is NOT perfect why do WE need to reincarnate to perfection/purification to be back "with" it?

    I think these are legitimate questions. I do of course feel some sense that there is something more or I would not be questing at all but these questions exist as the ultimate boiled down bottom line in every single religion, discipline or belief system I have ever heard of. BTW, they don't go away if you take the esoteric out of the question either. It is equally inscrutible if we are just chemicals with no driving intelligence behind the scenes, why "all this" would have happened at all and why there would be even a biological drive to keep going, if it means nothing and results in nothing and makes no difference.

    I think these are all very solid questions.
     
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  3. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi WriteNow. It really does feel like a dog chasing it's own tail from an earthbound perspective anyway. Us choosing to become imperfect so that we can evolve towards perfection does sound like a contradiction in terms. That's why the only answer that I can come up with is that life is a morality play. I've learned much about myself and what a creator may want from me since I remembered reincarnation. The only positive that I can see coming out of my own suffering is that it has the ability to change me ( hopefully for the better ). I still don't understand why I've come here to learn this stuff though, since I already knew it when I was in spirit. No ones really given a take here on that question that has satisfied me anyway. I just don't understand why we come here in blind ignorance to everything, even a lack of proof of the existence of God beyond faith, just to fumble blindly for answers when all will be revealed in the afterlife anyway. I'd love to know the point to it. Besides, why did a creator make me like this when He knew that I would face the challenges I've faced. I just don't get it really.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
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  4. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    Suffering is never the purpose we incarnate for. We decided to incarnate with the dominant purpose of growing (the growth is unlimited), while experiencing freedom, from a default state of joy. Our society influence, and our limited knowledge, cause our thoughts to diverge from the purpose we willingly chose to incarnate for. Each of our thoughts is gauged by our higher self against the purpose we incarnated for. If it is in harmony we get a positive emotion, if it is in disharmony we get a negative emotion. We have the freedom to do whatever we choose, and not understanding that we create our reality, each one of us creates only their own reality, sometimes we choose thoughts that create realities contrary to our purpose, so we continue to receive a feedback of pain.
     
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  5. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    So your saying we all bind ourselves here then baro San? Are you saying my negative feelings to fight aren't part of my souls journey?
     
  6. baro-san

    baro-san Senior Member

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    I mean no disrespect, or lack of compassion for the pains of the world. Yes. It's my belief that negative feelings, pain, and suffering are neither needed, nor useful to our growth.
     
  7. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Jim What makes you so sure that everything is reveled to you on the afterlife? How did you come to believe that's what happens? With these types off beliefs its easy to go searching then select that which suits your own beliefs.. that's what most do... how do you do it?. Do you use the writings and beliefs of others or do you have first had experience?
     
  8. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I don't know if I agree with that Baro San. If I hadn't of suffered I wouldn't be learning the life lessons I'm learning now. Its like a child. You can tell them over and over again why they shouldn't put their hand in the fire but they won't fully understand why until they get burnt. I didn't understand my life lessons until I experienced the pain for myself. Just my experience.
     
  9. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    From my perspective John I'm not holding beliefs, I'm holding experiences. I didn't learn what I learned from others, its first hand knowledge. Knowledge I learned at a price that is probably too high.

    I didn't just gain past life knowledge, I gained information on other stuff too. People are free to disagree with me of course but I can only offer my own experiences.

    What I've learnt:

    Reincarnation is real.

    There is a life review. One will see ones actions from others perspectives.

    Intent is as important as action.

    On the other side of the veil all thought becomes manifest. Imagine a sunny day you will experience a sunny day. Imagine a fear you will experience that fear ( but most souls are at peace thus have no fears ).

    The reincarnation cycle is a manifestation of ones own self.

    The spirits of the dead have a more finely honed, more absolute understanding of right and wrong than most people alive on Earth.

    Telepathy is the norm on the other side of the veil. Nothing is hidden.

    The spirits of the dead don't care about status. A soul at peace who meets the spirit of Marilyn Monroe won't be impressed. They will just be loving and understanding.

    These are the main things I've learned from my experiences about that area of things John. I don't bother searching for things that fit my experiences/beliefs. I'm just an average bloke. I want to be an average bloke. I've had enough of the paranormal to last me a lifetime thank you very much. I just focus on my own souls journey through my various incarnations. I'm on this site to take a good long hard look at myself. I'll confront the other paranormal stuff when I die.

    I don't seek writings on it for a very simple reason. An example is:

    It was curiosity that forced past life flashbacks and the other side of the veil knowledge on me.

    A medium I read about channeled that we are here partly to learn curiosity.

    St Augustine I believe said that hell is for the curious.

    Do you see? Two conflicting ideas. One that curiosity is positive, one that it is negative. That's just one thing and it told me nothing about where I'm going except that I might be screwed and I might not be. Reading others writings enhances my conflict with myself so to give myself peace I just focus on myself and my experiences. I don't let the writings and beliefs of others influence me because it leaves me in a state of anxiety.
     
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  10. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online Game (things like World of Warcraft where people create an avatar and play through a story online with other people)
    PvP = Player vs Player (when two live players fight instead of attacking in-game constructs that are managed by the computer program)
     
  11. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi Mere Dreamer. I still think treating life as a play or a video game let's us all off the hook for the things that we've done.

    I understand the battle between light and dark all too well. When I read about my last remembered life I find it strange that people in my country hold him up as some sort of white knight ( others see the blackness of my capacity for ruthlessness however ). I wonder, if I was 'heroic' in life after life, what were my true motivations behind that? Since I remembered reincarnation and learned my life lessons I seem to be more inclined to feel responsible for all the evils of this world. Even this I find egotistical. I'm not the centre of the universe after all. I'm out of balance since all of this happened to me. I also fear that I'll be exiting the play forever after my current life. I rebelled against God. I mean, I didn't realise I was doing wrong at the the time but is ignorance an excuse? This world might very well be a big online game but there's still consequences to taking the fight to God. Even Hitler is forgiven by God for all the evils he did but I've found that once you display evil to God, it doesn't matter if your considered a hero or a villian, its not so easily forgiven. I'm reminded of my 18th century life where I played the Earth game like gangbusters.

    http://theunitedirishman.blogspot.no/2013/11/wolfe-tones-speech-from-dock.html?m=1

    I pulled the same stuff in my current life, except with my immortal soul. I may have to suffer for that. I can't really treat this life as an online game because I tried to push through the veil and see the reality of what existence is all about. I saw the spit and sawdust of it alright. I'm suffering for it now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  12. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Jim, I feel that you are a much better person than you give yourself credit for. I don't like you beating yourself up for having memories of an associate (or few) of yours doing something that you now see in a different light.
     
  13. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Thanks Ken. I just don't see the good in me anymore. My past lives weren't simply associates of mine, they were me. My current life throws that into sharp relief. I remember being in front of judges in my current life and I behaved as I remember Wolfe Tone behaved so Tones ghost is on my back. I remember 40 authority figures following my lead as I broke a sociopath in my current life and I remember General Collins leading men in war so Collins ghost is also on my back. Each time I was an immovable object. I think of leading other boys in tactics in 50 strong fights as a teenager in my current life and I remember all the bodies when I was Brian Boru, my current life thinking taken to its logical conclusion. I could go on and on. Collins spy ring and my using peoples innocent comments on social media to spy on the powerful in my current life. I think of the passion of risking my life for my love in my current life and its echoed in Alexanders passion on the battlefield. There's no separation for me because I've behaved the same as all my past lives in my current life. I could write a thick book on the parallels. Collins pacing the floor when my squad was out on a mission and my current life pacing the floor while I await judgement from God. My ability to envision three dimensional economic modelling and guerilla tactics in my current life and Alexanders ability to envision outcomes and strategies on the battlefield. My penchant for frock coats and long coats mirroring military uniforms in the style of Collins and Tone.

    I'll stop now because that's not really what this topic is about. My point is that I've got the same mind. Only yesterday I read in the paper about an ex convict who is now a militant vegan and I thought 'if he tried to fight my life choice of eating meat I'd put him in hospital'. The dismay I feel that I still think like that is palpable to me. I just feel like there's no hope for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  14. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Actually forget the overview. Just the specifics traumatise me. When that politician vowed to destroy me I said 'I've had to stand toe to toe against murderers, I've been to prison, I've been homeless, I've been beaten, marginalised, abused...I've even been dead. Now what the EFF are you going to do to me that hasn't already been done to me?' If you read that Wolfe Tone link you would know I made pretty much the same statement as Tone. Do you understand Ken? Nearly every memory I have in my current life is like that. Its as if Jim is the focal point where all of my past lives converge. There's no escaping myself.
     
  15. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yes I understand. My thoughts are that we could possibly all have similar pasts, and I'm more interested in your healing than your wounds. It's just that I would like for you to change your focus a bit for your well being.
     
  16. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Isn't that the point, though? To start with your self as it is now and provide that self with the nurture needed to become more? If you want a different path, what is to stop you from choosing a new path? Just because you are what you are doesn't mean that is all you ever will be.

    If you get stuck in guilt, it's a little like choosing to stay a seed unplanted. Guilt can become a hard shell that encloses you and prevents growth. Everything you were previously is useful to becoming and can inform your future choices for the good, no matter how much evil you perceive in yourself. You wouldn't see what you do now without those experiences.

    The reckoning you dread is the reckoning you're currently facing. The harshest judgement is that of a man who fully realizes where he has been destructive to himself and others and deeply regrets those choices and longs to correct the damage. Your judgement of yourself is harsher even than the "God" whose judgement people assume must be worse. The difference between you and God (as I and others have experienced that Light) is that you think "This is all I have been and ever will be. How can I forgive myself? How can anyone be okay with this?" while God is looking at your future and saying, "This is perfect! He's finally realized where he got caught up into blind reaction, which means he's going to be wiser and more willing to question himself in the future!"

    Nobody becomes wise without having been truly foolish. Anyone who seems wise from the beginning likely performed their foolishness in a previous life. And even those who are very wise in one aspect of life can be deeply, insanely foolish in another.

    There is no such thing as doing life right.
    There is no such thing as doing life wrong.
    There is only what we extract from the past to learn from in the present so as to practice the best of ourselves more often in the future.

    Time exists so that we have the option of changing and growing. Does that make sense?

    Also, there were benefits that came of who you were before. Even the worst man does some good in this world, even if it is by accident. Just like the best of us do some damage, even if it is by accident.

    If you choose to focus on the darkness and allow it to consume you, then you will not benefit from or make good use of the light.
     
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  17. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I agree Ken. We live in a world rife with a violent history and a violent present. The majority of mankind is guilty. I just never realised my own guilt in it. I took everything in my stride until I discovered reincarnation. Now I seem to be retroactively traumatised by my current life lived. Because of the parallels with my past life actions my current life experiences carry more heft. I'm operating on a deeper level now. I honestly don't know what I should be focused on. My focus is adrift right now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  18. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I did ask to be confronted with myself Mere Dreamer. I just didn't know about reincarnation when I asked. I don't know what different path to take. I've fought for so long that I don't know how to be any other way.

    Its not just guilt, its embarrassment. I embarrassed myself in front of everyone.

    Maybe God does see it as me learning but I see it as me being a bloody idiot. I'm the one that has to feel my feelings.

    I know I'm not alone in being foolish. Most of the world builds people who do evil up as heroes.

    It makes sense. I just hope that I have the option of changing.

    I don't see any benefits in my past life actions. I mean, OK, I can relate to my more recent incarnations more than my earlier ones because I've changed over the millennia. My being a rebel in my last three incarnations wasn't simply there for me to experience the opposite extreme to being a conqueror. I've evolved socially along with the rest of humanity. I no longer see my forcing my will on people as being to the betterment of humanity. I've learned that enforcing the will of the people is to the betterment of humanity. Empires, clans, Kingships, they've all gone the way of the dodo in the western world with the exception of some royal figureheads. The battles today are sometimes for the freedom of all people. I just remember that I didn't need to keep fighting for my love. She was doing fine without me. Some historians say that the Irish republic would have happened anyway without the rebellion. I can't help feeling that fighting evil contributes nothing to the grand scheme of things. I just don't see any good I've done.

    I can't see any light Mere Dreamer.
     
  19. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Former Moderator

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    It's my understanding that we are all extensions of God and it's God's desire to experience all aspects of creation. Living a life is kinda like going to a movie. While the movie is playing nothing else matters. In that moment we are completely oblivious to anything happening outside the four walls of that theater. We are completely absorbed in movie we are watching, all it's plot twists, all it's emotional ups and downs, just like the life we are living. Once the movie is over we walk out of the theater and are reawakened to the world around us. Our consciousness returns to us, just like when we die. We leave the movie saying, "Wow, that was quite a ride." Why do we live life when bad things happen to us? Well, why do we go to movies that scare us, or stimulate us in other emotional ways? There is nothing really inherently bad, just experiences. Yes, we experience things we don't like, but they are necessary to understand contrast. How can we truly appreciate joy if we've never experience sorrow? How can we appreciate companionship if we've never experienced loneliness? How can we appreciate peace if we've never experienced unrest? Contrast makes everything deeper and more meaningful. Living life we experience everything first-hand in the real physical world, something we cannot do spiritually. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin said we are a spiritual being having a physical experience. You can learn about golf, but until you stand on a golf course and actually hit the ball it doesn't mean much. You can learn about Venice, Italy but until you've actually rode a gondola through the canals it doesn't mean much. Life is just getting out of the classroom, so to speak, into the real world and getting our hands dirty.

    Again, this is the way I understand it to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but it makes sense to me.

    BTW, if you are aware of things in past lives that you don't like, that's good. That awareness means you've grown and are now empowered to chose a different path.
     
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  20. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I don't think this is universal growth that you just fell into because everyone else is doing it. I think it's YOUR growth that allows you to see how many others also desire to create a world based on similar principles. That being said ... isn't that the Light? The fact that you have changed and see the world differently is what experiencing light feels like. Yes, it's embarrassing, but it also frees you to make new choices.
     

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