Suicide

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by Arrant, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Arrant

    Arrant Senior Registered

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    I can't find anything on this subject elsewhere in the forum, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

    As I was growing up in a spiritualist household, I was always taught that suicide is a mortal sin. I don't think those actual words were used (although I believe that is how the Catholic faith, for example, views it), but nonetheless the idea planted in my head was that the souls of suicides don't follow the same path as others who pass naturally. Instead, they go to some sort of purgatory before reincarnating into exactly the same circumstances they were trying to escape. What happened during their time in "purgatory" was never made clear to me, and now I look back on it the notion seems even more vague and less well founded than it did then.

    So, I'd be interested in the views of others if you'd care to share...?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Shiftkitty

    Shiftkitty Registered User

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    Back in '66 I punched out via drug overdose. I wasn't about to get sent to Viet Nam. If I was going to die, it would be on my own terms. This girl I knew had been talking about this reincarnation thing, so it looked like a good dodge provided it was real. Just "check out" for a few years and come back when the BS has blown over. I don't recall any purgatory or anything of the sort. However, I don't recommend it as a way to escape the world's problems. You don't really dodge anything and you miss so much, not to mention the people you hurt on your way out. I figured I'd just be another hophead found dead. Turns out more than a few people actually missed me.


    The really awful thing for me is that it was unnecessary. In this life I have an interest in psychology and various things dealing with the mind and mental disorders. I never would have been taken given my mental state. There was just too much going wrong upstairs since the accident (which is still fuzzy to me, so I don't know what it was).


    So, long story short, realizing what you've missed and who you hurt is Hell enough.
     
  3. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Given the references to Vietnam, I am compelled to give my opinion about suicide in the context of my own experience. I can say that a number of us who went repeatedly on combat patrols and command assaults did so by coming to the conclusion that we were eventually going to die. Yet, in spite of this we continued our jobs with the intention of keeping our brothers alive, if not ourselves. And, when someone became too silent and distant, we would keep an eye on them in case they did something suicidal in the middle of a firefight. Such people were capable, we felt, of getting us all killed; so our opinion of suicide was pretty intolerant, because it was viewed as utterly selfish and narcissistic. We needed everyone online and working together for the survival of each other, and no one complained knowing that we were all in the same leaky boat.


    Since that time I have viewed life in the same way and in the same terms, because life is suffering and we are all in the same boat, whether we are rich or poor, male or female, light or dark. So, anyone taking themselves out before their time are potentially hurting collective whole as well as those who love them. They are committing murder, because they are killing someone's son or daughter, father or mother, sister or brother. They are creating a mess for everyone else to clean up; and they are potentially setting the stage for certain loved ones to copy their actions in some way or another at a later date. I have known many families who have suffered suicide, and in alsmost all of those cases the pattern of suicide has not ended with the first one. Usually, a son or daughter, nephew or cousin, wife or husband falls apart and dies because of drug overdose, reckless behavior or some other circumstance that could have been avoided.


    These opinions, however do not mean that I am the least bit judgmental towards those who consider suicide or attempt it; for I have a great deal of compassion toward anyone who is hurting that much. In fact, I have been so selfish to consider it myself on many occasions. But, it is wrong, nonetheless! I don't say this because of anything written in scripture or taught in Theology or Bible classes, but because it does so much harm to others—pure and simple.


    As far as Reincarnation is concerned, I don't feel that there is any practical purpose in confining souls to any kind of "purgatory" for any reason whether it is the act of suicide or murder or any other reason. If there is punishment for anything, I believe that the classroom of life is the best solution. For, if there is such a thing as sin, it is defined in the Aramaic dictionary as an archery term for "missing the target", which is something we all do.
     
  4. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member Staff Member

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    Nightrain,


    Thank you for your service to our country, and a {{hug}} because I know now how poorly those who served when they returned here. I was too young then to know what was really happening to the Vietnam Vets but over the years have discovered how badly they were treated.


    Thank you for not "checking out" after that horrific experience. I have learned much from you, and I certainly would have missed knowing you.
     
  5. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member Staff Member

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    Arrant,


    From what I have read, Suicides go to Heaven where they are in a "hospital" of sorts where their souls receive counseling and help dealing with whatever issues they have that cause their action before they choose to reincarnate.
     
  6. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    Mama...your comments are similar to what Newton has written about.


    From my own sense of it all, imagine the resultant chaos and re-planning necessitated by a suicide-caused truncation of a lifeplan; all the complex interweaving and intertwining of lives, events and relationships which must be relegated to "Plan B" when someone expresses their free will to end their life in advance of the time they had previously planned to check out. There is invariably some level of potential previously included in the plan for suicide, and there was a previous thread here about certain "check out points" (or something along those lines) allowing for jettisoning our lifetimes, but as Shiftkitty mentioned, the lost opportunities and effects on the survivors is significant.


    With that said, I believe the greatest judgment we receive is obtained from ourselves.
     
  7. Arrant

    Arrant Senior Registered

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    Wow! So wonderfully put. What an enlightened way to look at it. Really, I mean that. Thanks.
     
  8. Red Night

    Red Night Senior Registered

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    I have a very unconventional view of suicide that I know most, if not everyone, will disagree with. I don't believe that there is anything at all wrong with suicide and it is completely a singular soul's choice if they wish to take their own life. I look at Earth as being a very laxed and loving learning place, so despite the fact that suicide may cause a general interruption in many lives and cause a lot of a distress, in the long run everything will be smoothed out. If not, well then it takes the form of a lesson. Well, actually, I suppose it's a lesson for all involved no matter what.


    I believe that no matter what many of our beliefs are we still view death as something awful because we've been conditioned to think of it as such, when really all it is is a transition. If we have a loved one who takes their own life we should ask ourselves why that person resorted to such extreme actions, and then learn from it to better ourselves. Eventually, we'll be reunited. We can look at it in two different ways; was that person selfish for killing themselves and causing us so much sadness for their passing? Or are we being selfish for only wanting that person to stay on Earth for our own happiness, even if it means that they'll have to deal with a great amount of depression and sadness? I don't look at it as quitting, but just restarting before the "game" is over.


    Just my two cents.
     
  9. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    You present it as either/or. I see it as "and". I think both apply.


    Unless there is a incurable physical cause for depression, or the person is in chronic pain, or the sadness is so overwhelming, then it's an entirely different situation.


    If the bad situations can be handled, then they should be handled, and not by committing suicide.


    I've had suicidal thoughts. I'd say everyone has, at one time or another. It's our choice what we do with these thoughts.


    But I'll say this. I dont want to be a judge. This is only my opinion. Earth is not an easy school.
     
  10. Red Night

    Red Night Senior Registered

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    I very much agree. Suicide is definitely a last resort and shouldn't be used as an escape from a bad, but, temporary situation. But unfortunately there are a great deal of people who suffer from chronic depression and have for years, and the only thing preventing them from ending their own misery is protecting those around them.


    But on the other hand, chronic depression can be cured, but how long should a person have to wait? I grew up in an abusive home almost killed myself when I was eleven because of the sadness and anxiety had endured since I was little, but my mom found out and stopped me. This didn't stop me from feeling the way I did though and for the next, about four and half years I went through this pain almost everyday and the only thing that stopped me from doing anything was the fear of hurting, really mostly, my mother. Then I discovered reincarnation and spirituality, or at least I gave them much more attention then I ever had before, and my attitude and disposition made a complete turn around. I still have time where I feel like the world is ending and there isn't any point to it all, but I think we all do. So, my point I guess is, don't give up hope, but if it's been a constant struggle for you and you want to give up, you shouldn't feel ashamed or afraid you're going to be punished or have to deal with karma for doing so. At the risk of offending anybody, I think that's ridiculous.
     
  11. shadowsofmypast

    shadowsofmypast Senior Registered

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    I commited suicide in three past lives.


    Never felt healed I always felt deep inside


    I carried those pains in me.


    I can say i feel better putting one pastlife


    behind she's at rest.
     
  12. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    shadows, that's wonderful! You are starting to put your "ghosts" to rest!
     
  13. dking777

    dking777 Senior Registered

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    I have been watching documentaries on the Iraq war. I felt enough time has passed to access a more balanced view. One of the documentaries stated there were uncounted casualties missing from the official statistics due to the number of suicides among returning vets. One documentary suggested the number of losses were equal suggesting that 4000 suicides of Iraq Veterans.


    Back in the day when I spoke to officials about my 'recall' of a past life as a 'soldier' (or warrior) - the phase 'battle fatigue' was used. (Now they refer to it as PTSD.) In World War II - it was often refereed to as 'shell shock.' He was the only one (growing up) who identified and related to my testimony of a past life - because he said no one other than someone who had 'been there' would understood what he himself was dealing with.


    When I heard the statistics on the documentary - my first thought was how many 'future children' were going to inherit a past life memory of the 'battle fatigue' from the Iraq war. How many parents are going to have to deal with a child suffering the emotional scars from a conflict that is going to influence future generations in more ways than one. I am grateful for Carol's hard work and research that will be there for parents to turn to when the time comes for them to search for answers.


    Sincerely,


    DKing
     
  14. dking777

    dking777 Senior Registered

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    Four people I knew, loved and was close to have 'committed suicide. One person I knew - left the world in such a way - that many falsely believe his death was suicide - but it was given to me to know - it wasn't by his own hand. I had already had experience dealing with the 'disembodied spirit's' of four who had dealt with the 'darkness' that surrounds the spirit from such an act.


    When it comes to suicide - it is not a matter of one size fits all. The motive, intent - and frame of mind prior to 'death' is going to impact the 'vibrations' of the incident.


    I don't think many people use the word 'purgatory' in connection with 'reincarnation' because 'religion' wants to focus on 'one life' and 'one shot' to heaven. (I think that is why this subject is swept under the rug - so to speak - when it comes to religion.)


    Many NDE'ers refer to this 'realm' as the 'void' or the 'dark realm.' This is because - it is 'absent' of the 'unconditional love' of creation. When I was a child and battling with a chronic medical condition - I would find myself being 'propelled' to this realm on a few occasion - due to where my mind was at - prior to my 'death.' If I was full of 'anger, hatred and scorn' - I would find myself in that dark realm - battling the 'forces' there to 'get the heck out.' As a child - I used the metaphor of a 'sewage ditch.' You had to 'step' over that 'ditch' to find firm footing on the 'other side.' (The other side was how people referred to it when I was a child.) I would warn people - 'don't miss your step.' It was a horrific condition to find yourself in and it 'stunk' just like raw sewage. You have to 'come to your spiritual senses' in that mix and it is hard to climb out of it - but - there was always going to be a loved one - or spirit guide throwing a rope (or a voice) to help you get out of that situation and condition. When you did, there was always the 'Main Spirit' standing there with some 'soap, water' and a towel to help you get cleaned up and carry forward on your trek 'back to the light.'


    It was no 'different' for suicides.


    After my NDE's I always stated that the biggest challenge upon leaving this world for the 'final curtain' call - was leaving without any regrets. Here, we don't know the 'weight' and 'burden' those regrets are going to turn into on the other side. A 'tiny' ounce of regret here = turns into a ton of regret on the other side. That is what I 'heard' from the four spirits who ended their time here with their own hand. The agony and misery of this was not 'expressed' from a state of purgatory (or while their spirits were immersed in that realm.) It was something their spirits expressed over and over again to me. A part of the reason (they expressed to me) - coming back into the 'world' again was to help 'lessen' the load of regret they were carrying within their hearts, souls and spirits.


    It bothered me that the world gave up on the spirits of my friends after their 'acts' or 'misdeeds' and condemned them to an 'eternal hell' of misery and pain. I told one friend,


    "Thank God - God doesn't give up on us like the world does."


    Sincerely,


    DKing
     
  15. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    I was once diagnosed with PTSD, and the only thing that I can think of as a cause was my involvement in the Civil War.


    One of my brothers was a suicide. He was in last stage liver failure, and I understood why he did it, but it was still difficult. Those old tabus, and religious prohibitions still linger. He "ate" the barrel of a gun, and I had occasional excruciating jaw pain for weeks. The pain is long since gone - I think he jumped into a body to try again. Pray God, that his life will be easier this time!
     
  16. Rustic_Kid

    Rustic_Kid New Member

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    As someone who committed suicide in more than one lifetime I jumped into a body real quickly. The next life wasn't any better so I learned real quick that my problems didn't go away. THOSE previous problems were gone but I had a new set waiting it seems. Even now old feelings and that sorrow return. But I must say I never once was punished. Although my death was controversial the family was more worried about it looked than by my taking my life then. Same with the other life(ves) where I offed myself. Even then I dont reccomend anyone doing it but do very much understand how someone could even if I dont agree.
     
  17. shadowsofmypast

    shadowsofmypast Senior Registered

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    Rustic kid, the whole body jump


    Is something I have been dealing since


    I was in high school. I thought I would


    get the rest would be accompained by suicide


    Wrong.! It's rather sad the soul wants rest,


    and comes back with bad Karma, or what have you.


    Like the song Time After Time.
     
  18. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Thank you, Rustic Kid. It's a comfort to know that you weren't punished. I think both my brothers either reincarnated last February, or at least chose bodies. I think they will be in the same family again. Maybe, my wiser brother will be able to help the other one next time.
     
  19. Sarellah

    Sarellah Senior Registered

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    None ya!
    I think suicide isn't a choice of free will, but an automatic reaction when the pain becomes too strong to bear, and takes over. We never know the full story of a suicidal person, nor should we assume we do. We could learn a lot from people who tried to kill themselves but made it out of the depression on the other side, and now are well enough to tell their stories from a new perspective. Imagine not being afraid of death; that alone is a teacher.
     
  20. verbosewriter

    verbosewriter New Member

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    I've been suicidal up until my mid-20s. Then I got too busy living contently. So many times I want to write my memoir, but I stop. Wanted to write a musical loosely based on my parents reunion after their war-torn separation, but I ended up stopping. So I release their story on the Internet, hoping someday someone will do the deed for me.


    My closeted burden became too much for me to bear, I fell hard for my first love during my late-20s. We don't ever have to end up together. Just five minutes with her was enough, all other memories were bonuses.


    The same with my current love, the woman of my dreams. Sometimes I want to give up and then the image of her, her essence as well, she tells me to not leave her. My love for her has grown more and more by the hour, by the minute I collect in my age. All the horrible things I've found out about her, I love her still. Could I sink down to her level? Would my soul allow it to save hers? Yes, I told her even hell would be heaven if I could be with her.


    In "my life" I've never experienced this before. We're both busy women, separated by a thousand miles. Separated by social class too. I'm going to repeat this over and over again in the forum, so I must figure out what I need to do. Can't stop talking about her, the woman of my dreams.


    The thing is, I'm wanting her to reject me like the others, but she doesn't. She plays games with me, encourages me to think outside the box. No detective can endure what I've endured.


    If we end up together, it would be my first real LTR and also maybe my last. No one can unseat her reign in my heart.


    Well, actually, someone came close. I call her the dominatrix. Not sure if she's a fake woman or not, but with my detective work, she is. I asked my intuitive healer about her, to no avail. She's some wisdom and life lessons passing through.


    It's tough to feel the online people as part of our past lives. My intuitive healer said that once I'm able to set the woman of my dreams aside, I would be with my current life soul mate.


    Why do we hope? I told the woman of my dreams that I'd take her in any form. I write too much, so I try to limit myself somehow.
     

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