Ted Bundy

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jim78, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. AlexD

    AlexD aka Shadow

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    128
    The whole matter of "soul contracts" is one that I find particularly fascinating, but also difficult to evaluate and discuss about for lack of any concrete proofs. I personally don't consider channeled information a reliable proof in any case, in my opinion channeling is like pointing an antenna at a random direction in space hoping to pick up something meaningful or accurate... results vary greatly.

    For those of you who are not familiar with my story, I'll explain it briefly: I used to be a Romanian anticommunist rebel in the 20th century. I got caught, tortured and executed with my closest friend and my whole group. In this life I reincarnated as close as possible to my friend and my torturer, the former being my current aunt and the latter being my mother. Being a narcissistic sociopath, she ruined my childhood and affected me and my aunt in a very negative way. Since this whole story came to the surface, I've been wondering why we found ourselves close to one another. I'd rather not indulge in speculations about my mother's mental status, I'd rather want to understand the reasons behind my aunt's choice and my own.

    It is my impression that the three of us have been meeting for quite a long time, since before our lives in Romania. We kept pretty much the same mentality and attitude through our lifetimes, although I reckon that in far older times my current mother might have been a victim of my activities rather than a perpetrator. It's also true that after my death in Romania my torturer was executed in a similar fashion by the same communists that he used to work for. It's not like we needed a retribution at all, we all died in extremely violent ways and we knew it. I am tired of repeating the same patterns over and over, I want to move forward, yet I have no idea of the reasons that bind us three, only questions.

    In this life aunt is the younger sister, so technically she followed my mother. I joined later, obviously. We found ourselves in a situation in which my mother literally wanted to own me, to control me completely, and eventually saw my aunt as an obstacle in her way. Most of what happened in our lives seemed to be planned since before our births. If so, I wonder if we had already decided to find ourselves in such unhealthy circumstances, if we signed a contract contemplating many lifetimes, not just the current one.

    I don't doubt that we all should take responsibility for the damage we have caused to one another. Just because it was prewritten, it doesn't mean that we didn't make mistakes, or misunderstood the whole situation. It's a consequence of the limitations of the human mind... the point is understanding why. If there was a contract between us, a long lasting one, what was the purpose of it? No one would make such an agreement for no good reason, would they?

    Forgive me for expanding on my personal experience, I didn't mean to go off topic. I do understand the the core issue of the topic is about soul contracts and not sociopaths in general. I just wanted to share it in hope to shed some light on a difficult situation. Thank you for reading.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    fireflydancing likes this.
  2. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    317
    Location:
    SW Ohio, USA
    Glad you contributed again AlexD, your memories certainly do not lead to obvious explanations. The dances we engage in with each incarnation seem to be choreographed sometimes and not in others, how can we come to know the lessons and experiences we have selected, the answer to that would solve a lot of questions. I'd like to have a clue about that myself as I feel that I'm just "treading water" at this point in my life.
    It appears that there is indeed a variety of stories and experiences that lead us to our views on this subject. The book, Thirty years among the dead by Dr. Carl Wickman, was a significant influence on my views in that area; a good read if you have the time. Hard to tell where active imagination starts and ends in my experience with people I've talked with. What Edgar Cayce did was well documented and led to a lot of interest, sometimes what he did created profound changes for the person he did a reading for and at other times seemed not to do anything. My experience has not been good in this area despite my pursuing it over a period of more than forty years.
     
  3. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    323
    Hi Alex. Like you I've had dealings with sociopaths in my current life. They put me through hell. I can't speak to your contracts or souls journey but I can speak from my own experience.

    Sociopaths didn't illuminate anything for me in my recent past lives. My comrades and the people I fought most likely weren't sociopaths and I learned little I see as valuable in a spiritual sense compared to my current life. What fighting sociopaths taught me in my current life was that two wrongs don't make a right and preconceptions and judgements can be wrong.

    I figure if I did soul contract to deal with sociopaths in my current life I can understand why because of what I've learnt. I've learnt about the nature of conflict. In my past lives I obviously learnt that peace is preferable but I was stubborn about fighting. Sociopaths taught me that sometimes not fighting is the most prudent course of action.

    Without sociopaths I wouldn't have learnt any of that. I would still be fighting in ignorance. As a result I accept all the evil they've done to me and people I cared about, because I realise that they are my unwitting teachers. They taught me about myself.
     
  4. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    I would suggest reading Natalie Sudman’s “Application of Impossible Things” in which she describes being blown up in a roadside bomb in Iraq...nothing at all political, rather her intense description of her soul contract to be blown up, what went into the agreement and why and how she “came back” from “over there”. Her commentary is invaluable first-hand information, much of which jibes completely with my own experiences in what she calls the “blink environment”, so called because she blinked and was there, fully conscious of not only where she was, but what she was doing, had been doing before the explosion, and what was going to happen afterwards, with full awareness the entire time. Simply an amazing and enlightening commentary of her experience.
     
  5. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    323
    https://therabbitisin.com/the-application-of-impossible-things-c661d51f12df

    Its funny. When I was a child I used to feel depressed that I was completely alone in my thoughts. Nowadays, knowing about reincarnation and the other side of the veil, I get annoyed thinking that my thoughts are not my own.

    It is nice to think that, on the other side of the veil, I will be understood however. I don't know what souls have to learn from living in ignorance though. We are not only ignorant to our soul contracts but to who we actually really are as souls. Yet some of us, such as members on this forum, are given a little illumination in the darkness. Why does that light not shine for everyone?
     
    AlexD likes this.
  6. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    They don't exist... at least not to that point. But it's easy wanting to believe in soul contracts when you're done evil things because that discharges you of the responsibility. I was there too, but it never convinced me the possibility that someone, before being born, agreed with me that I should kill him. And this is closely linked to several other facts in reincarnation, the most important of which is: the Law of Karma doesn't exist (regardless of what the majority of people believe).

    I do believe we have some idea of what we want to do once we are on Earth, and also, I believe we may plan the roles each soulmate is going to play. For example, I might want to reincarnate with a soul that I know makes things hard for me because of the way they think or behave or whatever, perhaps they would try to challenge me, or put me in a tough situation. Every life is an experiment, we set the initial conditions, but we don't know how it is going to end. Every choice makes the difference. If you told someone "I will kill you and you have to let me kill you", there is no free will, there is no experiment, no game to play, no challenge, no conclusions to draw... there is nothing. What's the point in living a life where you know deep inside what you'll do?

    I also used to think: "Well, if soul contracts exist, what's the point in feeling guilty, just afterwards the evil deed, or hundreds years later when I reincarnate?" If soul contracts existed, we'd all reach the other side, encounter our Elders (God, your Higher Self, or whatever you believe in), and we'd be told: "Oh, don't worry, you killed thousands of people with that bomb, but it was in your contracts, so it's all right, keep playing the evil in your next life if you enjoyed it". Obviously, this makes no sense.

    As I've said in other ocassions, "Evil" as such doesn't exist. We're all the same, and we're all capable of doing the same things, sometimes we do evil and sometimes we do right, depending on the circumstances and our way of reacting to them. Sometimes we follow our impulses and that turns out to be quite wrong. That's how we learn, that's all. And when we become aware of the suffering we may have caused in others, we'll change our actions, if we care enough. If not, you always can do the same evil things again and again.
     
    John Tat likes this.
  7. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    47
    Hi Eowyn.. Very glad to see you back ..The above is one of your best ever posts...I'm always surprise about how much you know and understand

    Good To See You Again
     
    Eowyn likes this.
  8. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    323
    I don't like the idea of predeterminism too much Eowyn. It doesn't really allow for any free will to change. I also don't like the idea that Hitler, as per the channeling Erik interview, is sitting up in heaven shrugging his shoulders saying "well...that was my role to play" and not caring about all the destruction he unleashed.

    I agree with the idea of soul contracts meaning we lack free will. It doesn't make complete sense to me either. I don't want to play the role of a warmongerer anymore. I'd like to think that I have a choice in the matter. Indeed my current life bares out the idea that I do have a choice and I always had a choice, I was just unaware of other options before my perspective changed.

    I'm trying to change my actions because of what I've learned and I haven't killed anyone in my current life so I know contracting to kill isn't necessary for soul growth.
     
    Mere Dreamer likes this.
  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Eowyn,

    As indicated above, I agree re soul contracts, and most of what you have said in that regard. These appear to be cooperative, made between close companions along the path, and meant to accomplish something good. For evil doers to attempt to exonerate themselves using this excuse is more than absurd. OTOH, I also know that God can use the evil done by others to accomplish good. Likewise, it appears that we often enter into our lifetimes with knowledge of the bad things that are certain or almost certain to happen to us during those lifetimes. To that extent, at least, it appears that we accept the price we must "pay for admission", a kind of tacit agreement to the negative consequences we may experience. This doesn't mean that we "approve" of the evil that may be done to us, only that we are willing to pay that price for what will be accomplished (or perhaps otherwise experienced). And, what may be accomplished may be a lot bigger than what we individually suffer or gain.

    The last thought came to me because of conversations I was having with a Jewish colleague a while back, who continued to have trouble with God because of the Holocaust. I knew and he knew that the modern state of Israel would not exist without the Holocaust, something that was and is very positive from the standpoint of most Jews. But God allowing (or perhaps predestining) the slaughter of millions of Jews in order to bring that about certainly puts a very negative spin on the way God works. However, I later wondered about the Jewish souls that entered those lifetimes. (If you have some familiarity with Jewish reincarnation beliefs, you will know that they hold that Jews reincarnate almost always as Jews--which is not that far-fetched in view of some of the things determined about intra-ethnic reincarnation in traditional cultures by Stevenson and others). From that perspective, I had to wonder how many of these spirits quite willingly subjected themselves to the forces of evil and took on the price of martyrdom in order to see the ancient dream of the Jews fulfilled. It may be this way in other cases as well. For better or worse, wise or unwise, I think many would be quite willing to take on a lifetime where they knew they would die violently if it would help establish their own independent nation. The Jews and the Irish seem to have felt this way historically.

    Anyway, this post may have wandered into deeper water than needed given the topic, and I am out of time as well as out of my depth.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--No time to discuss Karma--which I also do not accept in any kind of mechanistic sense, though I believe there are other ways to view what is going on there.

    PPS--I haven't had an opportunity to discuss this matter again with my Jewish pal, but hope to again sometime.
     
  10. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    323
    Hi S&S. I'd love to hear more about intra-ethnic reincarnation and Jews reincarnating as Jews.

    I ask because I myself seem to be linked to Irish unity. The only time Ireland was unified was under Brian Boru in the early 11th century. I've worked towards Irish unity also in the 18th, 20th and 21st centuries.

    Its like Ireland draws my soul like a moth to a flame. It would be a great relief to me to know that I agreed to make the sacrifices I made to help progress the Irish race. Much better than just thinking I'm here to spread evil. Could you elaborate on what Stevenson found and what something like my souls repeated Irish incarnations actually might mean please?
     
  11. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Jim,

    I'm on a short time line, but your question seems to deserve at least a quick treatment until a more lengthy one can be done.

    In terms of Jewish reincarnation, I wish we had our nice Jewish lady (and Kabbalah student) still on the board, but I haven't seen much of her for a while. But, in her absence, I will do my best. Of the three steams of Judaism--Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed--only the Orthodox (who tend to be very associated with Kabbalah) tend to be really strong believers in reincarnation. So, I should have limited my comment to Orthodox Jews, though I think that many other Jews also believe. In any case, it is my understanding that this belief in part confirms and adheres to the fact that all of the Jews made a promise for themselves and their descendants to obey the Torah law given at Sinai forever, and so they return as Jews over and over again--obeying the laws and trying to make the world a better place by doing so. You can find a great many Youtube videos by Orthodox Jews on the subject of reincarnation ("Gilgul") if you want to look, as well as a lot of internet info. Wikipedia can also be a good source. I think there are also organizations that reach out to find and incorporate people who feel like they "should have been born Jewish", etc.--i.e., got born in the wrong ethnicity.

    This is not really out of place with other traditional societies that believe in reincarnation. Ian Stevenson's research was mostly with such groups, such as the Druse, Hindus, etc. In those cases, reincarnation not only typically took place in the same ethnic group, but often very close by physically or in the same family. Many American Indian tribes also held such beliefs, and I have heard the same about a lot of other indigenous groups from Africa and elsewhere. In many of these groups, it was apparently not unusual to "recognize" a child as being great-grandpa or grandma come back and to name them accordingly.

    I heard somewhere that the ancient Celts also held such beliefs. But, no time to do much research, so I'm open to correction on any mistakes I have made. I think the interesting thing is that what is generally referred to as "Western Civilization" is not necessarily in sync with these tendencies. It seems that we are the exception--not the rule (though we may become the rule in these matters) in terms of coming back over a wider area geographically as well as ethnically. The whole thing is one of those background questions that need more analysis--are we that different, or is it just because Western Civilization is so wide-spread (so that you could be born all over the place and still be part of it)? If we are that different--why?

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--I think you understand very well why I mentioned the Irish in my last post. And yes, I think that a large number of "Irish" souls (including you) have been struggling over the last millenia to safeguard and/or obtain Irish freedom and progress--often living and taking on lives where they knew they would die violently. People sneer at Nationalism as being counter to progress and the source of great evils. However, all I have seen is that those who will not protect their turf will have it taken by others. (It's a hard world). Also, it appears that souls are associated with not just a small soul group, but by being part of a traditional society over hundreds or thousands of years can and would form tangled spiritual kinship relationships/groups (such as the Jews) who form super-groupings with shared loyalties and duties towards each other. I doubt this always leads to good things, but I'm not convinced that it inevitably leads to bad things either (as the Jews and the Irish may have proved).
     
    KenJ likes this.
  12. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Jim,

    BTW--this also ties in with another topic given much discussion on the board at an earlier date: the continuing impact of PL vows, decisions and determinations by which we have bound ourselves. These seem to be decisions that we made in the past that continue to have a binding impact and provide direction to our subsequent lifetimes. There is a thread on this subject here:

    http://reincarnationforum.com/threads/stories-and-consequences-of-past-life-vows.5630/

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  13. Guillaume_D

    Guillaume_D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Paris, France
    I agree with Eowyn. I believe in free will and I don't think our lives are written in advance. The purpose of reincarnation, if there is one, is to learn lessons and apply. What lessons can we learn if our lives are totally planned ? I think what we can choose are only the circumstances of our lives: where, when, and with who. And then we have to deal with it... and with the consequences of our past actions, what we call karma.
     
  14. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    323
    Hi S&S.

    If those various versions of reincarnation are to be believed and if it is born out in research that people incarnate into the same regions geographically or the same belief systems then it is possible , as you say, that reincarnation is not merely linked to various soul groups but also to a civilisations overall progress. My own PL memories bare this out ( although I did have at least one life that I remember in between my Irish incarnations where I was from a different culture, although I haven't been able to find any information on that ).

    In my eighteenth, twentieth and twenty first century lives I considered it at the time to be an honour to serve my country. I was a patriot. But just like how my perspective on war had shifted, my perspective on nationalism has also shifted. I see it as being responsible for many evils. Yet I can't shake this feeling that without Republican ideals I would not be now enjoying living in a Democratic Republic in my current life. Living standards have improved greatly, even the poor live comfortably compared to generations past. Things like the gay marriage bill point to a more progressive society. Even the homeless get benefits here. Ireland has changed drastically in the years since the founding of the free state and in particular in the last 25 years and none of that would have been possible without the fight for republican ideals or the loosening of the grip of the Catholic church. While its arguable that we would have won our freedom in the political arena without the need for war in the early twentieth century, without the groundwork laid down from the end of the late eighteenth century that progress wouldn't have occurred.

    This is my eighteenth century life:

    http://1916societies.com/2016/12/01/wolfe-tone-speech-john-crawley/

    And this is my early twentieth century life:
    http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com/life-times/the-struggle/collins-quotes/

    Its very clear that my twentieth century life picked up from where my eighteenth century life left off, in terms of how I served my nation. Although Tone is more lionised than Collins in Republican circles because as Tone I didn't have to compromise, but its very clear that my soul, as Collins, was contracted, or destined, to adhere to the principles set down in my life prior to Collins. Whether that was a vow or a contract however, I do not know. Your guess is as good as mine.
     
  15. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Jim,

    As your post indicates--good came of it all! Was it messy and brutal? Aren't most things humans accomplish on a large scale involving governmental and military conflicts messy and brutal? You can sort out and deal with your individual mistakes, which you are doing. But I also don't think you should fail to acknowledge the big picture. In terms of nationalism--this is a very loaded term. Like "Christian" it carries so much baggage for many that it has become an unwieldy label that may create more confusion than clarity. Sometimes nationalism is good and sometimes it is toxic. The same can be said of family--this goes back to earlier discussions about not letting things go past the balance point.

    IMO, one of the greatest blessings and greatest curses of the modern era in Western Civilization is individualism. It helps to put nationalism in balance, but its impact in places like this forum is so pervasive that I seldom find any inkling of a sense that there are larger spiritually important and lasting social structures/groupings in play than the individual and his/her particular soul group, or that there are larger and more nuanced plans at work in history other than (a) the evolution/development of individual "souls" at one end of the scale (along with their soul group mates) AND beyond that, at the other end of the scale, (b) the vast mass of individuals with their manifold soul groups considered as a whole.

    So, all you will hear about generally is the individual and his/her immediate linked "soul" group and grand theories about their evolution/development, and likewise grand theories about the mass of humanity and its evolution/development. I.e., as individualism becomes more pervasive and governing in people's minds, they tend to only see the microcosm of the individual with immediate links as important, and (if their minds are a bit larger) the macrocosm of humankind (a mass of individuals) as a whole. All intermediate structures and groupings tend to be ignored in terms of having any lasting spiritual value. These can be important in a more transient way for the immediate comfort/freedom of the individual incarnation or to help advance the comfort/freedom of the mass of incarnated individuals, but in terms of any other lasting value and merits--Nyet! It is as if the universe was composed of nothing but atoms/molecules at one end and stars/galaxies at the other, with no intermediate structures.

    I am not sure where exactly my thoughts are going on this, but I believe the Jewish approach, both at its exoteric and esoteric levels has merit. For them the BIG PLAN includes not just individuals with their immediate groupings at one end and ALL INDIVIDUALS at the other end. It also include a special plan for them as a people group, a unique grouping of spirits/souls moving through history together. How this relates to the rest of us I do not know, but I think they are not the only ones who can claim this distinction. Once again, I'm not clear on all of this, I'm just having a sense that we are ignoring something very important in the overall picture.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--I have left out the natural world in the above discussion, but this is also important in the new ethos in terms of being either our individual playground or the common heritage of the mass of humanity. Once again, microcosm and macrocosm (though some allowance is made for indigenous groups--like American Indians--to feel linked to a particular area/place).

    PPS--I'm hoping you have read the vows thread as well as the new animistic reincarnation thread that just got started. They both impact the subject being discussed.

    PPPS--I could get flack on this post from a variety of levels, including from those on the board who believe there are no "Big Plans". Big Plans necessarily imply "Big Planners" and perhaps even an ultimate "BIG PLANNER" :eek:. Both Big Plans and Big Planners are found to be EXTREMELY offensive and narrow by many (and well outside the comfort zone of the most dedicated individualists).

    PPPPS--If it will help you understand John Tat a bit more, I think he would heartily endorse some of the ideas I am exploring here, but probably only in terms of Ancient Egypt and the people/gods thereof, all of which he seems to think are coming again. I'm not making fun of him here. Many "visions" of the future include incredible changes--maybe re-establishing something like Ancient Egypt will be part of that, though I cannot see either that or the gods he worships in the same way he does.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  16. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Who, God? But why do we have always take God into account when we're all poor souls living as human beings? It is US who choose to do whatever with the bad things that happen to us. It is US who choose to seek vengeance, an eye for an eye, or just forgive the one who did evil. It is as simple (and complicated) as that. We always choose between war or peace, love or hate. And if the world is a hideous place to live in, it is because WE make it that way, not God.

    Yes, we may know what bad things are likely to happen to us, even an accident, but we are the ones who create the consequences. Like I said, bad events are a challenge for us. That's the only way we have to know if we're good enough to overcome those circumstances and transform evil in good, or if we just go back to the same mistakes.

    I don't think this is true. Not even Rabbi Yonassan Gershom claims something like that, at least in his book Beyond the Ashes. There are lots of Jewish people who have reincarnated in non-Jewish people (I have a few in my own forum). And I don't think many of them agree with that interpretation of martyrdom. The Holocaust was nothing planned by the "forces of evil", it was the consequence of eugenics and an anti-Semitism atmosphere that had begun in the early 1900s out of Germany (btw), they were all human beings as far as I know, falling into prejudices that even today are quite popular in certain circles of society. I don't know why these Jewish people are different from the thousands of people who die in wars all over the world. Do we wonder if any of these souls willingly subject themselves to the forces of evil? We all know what kind of place we are coming into when we reincarnate, we know it's likely we will have traumatic deaths again and again,as long as humanity doesn't change...
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
    fireflydancing likes this.
  17. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Eowyn,

    As to your first objection/comment: I have no idea how your comment relates to the statement quoted, but I have no objection to what you have said.

    As to your second objection/comment: I can see a relationship to what you have quoted, and agree with most of what you have said. However, as before, I am not sure why you have framed your comment in a confrontational manner.

    As to your third objection/comment: I am not sure I am following your argument. I did not say that the Holocaust was "planned" by forces of evil, though I am not sure that is an inaccurate statement. You yourself recite the "forces of evil" that (acting through the agency of evil people) were instrumental in creating the Holocaust. I am not sure when the "planning" phase began, but it was ultimately a very carefully planned genocide.

    As to whether souls might sacrifice their lives to accomplish some good in doing so--this definitely happens. People do so when they make heroic sacrifices and give their lives for the good of others. I am merely hypothesizing that many Jewish souls would have been willing to make that sacrifice to see the state of Israel re-born, and that perhaps they did so. (This is not an exoneration of those who killed them any more than a parent taking a bullet for the sake of their child would exonerate their killer). If you looked at the background of my comment, you will see that I was thinking of things that might have meaning to a Jewish friend having a crisis of faith. My comment was not based on anything said by Rabbi Gershom. Whether wrong or not, it is (as far as I know) my own. However, if these souls voluntarily took on such lives with an idea of what was likely to befall them in their lifetimes in order to create a greater good, I believe that makes them not only victims, but heroes as well. Is that wrong?

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  18. Eowyn

    Eowyn Wrought out of steel

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Yes, as always I make things quite clear and you don't even bother to listen, as this might change your religious views. I'm not being confrontational, I am just giving my opinion on the things you said the same way you only talk about your beliefs (forums exist to do this, don't they?), maybe you think it's confrontational because we disagree and so you try to escape saying you don't understand. And please, don't put words in my mouth I didn't say, it is YOU who brought up the "forces of evil", I think I've repeated over and over again in this thread that THERE IS NO EVIL, ONLY MEN DOING EVIL ACTIONS, during the Holocaust or during anything bad happening in the world. As this is going to be another pointless argument, I'd better stop here. Keep hypothesizing and depicting Jewish people as victims and heroes (when they're just like anyone else) and I'll go back to my facts, like those studied by Rabbi Gershom, among others that seemingly don't deserve your attention.
     
  19. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    317
    Location:
    SW Ohio, USA
    It is interesting how world-views create conflict. S&S seemed to be speaking about the "arrangement" of something happening (accident?) and Eowyn centers her thoughts about how the person deals with what was arranged. Same topic, possibly the same understanding of the "intent" of the challenge, yet waves are produced.
     
    SeaAndSky likes this.
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Eowyn,

    You apparently believe I do not, and possibly refuse to, understand your posts and respond to them appropriately. I feel the same way about the way you engage with my posts. So, since this is a long-running issue between us, I see no resolution other than to (1) ignore each others posts or to (2) continue as we are now. I have just ignored your last post #38 above. So, you have the last word at this point if you choose to disengage. It is up to you. As long as you ignore my posts from here on out I will likewise ignore yours. If you engage my posts I will engage yours. I'm certainly not averse to continuing along the same course if that is your preference, but if I have your agreement, I'd much rather we simply ignore each other's posts for the sake of civility on the board.

    S&S
     

Share This Page