The Christian Haupt Story

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by autumnleavesnnovember, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Carol, yes, I'm sure it's not easy to write a book, but I don't understand how the Leininger book actually made it to publication the way it was. Where were the editors? Their book was published by a division of Hachette, which is a major publishing company. How could a professional editor not realize how ludicrous it was for the story to have something like a list of everything Andrea Leininger bought at the grocery store one day?:rolleyes: I also felt there was some subtle hostility towards Andrea Leininger in the story. Since the book was the first time I had ever heard of James Leininger, I didn't know what to make of the family! Thus, I then watched the ABC Primetime show on them online, and saw that the Leiningers were perfectly normal people, not the least bit strange and pretty believable.

    I'll decide after the publication date of Cathy Byrd's book if I'll post my review or not. It's pretty critical, and I don't know if you want really critical reviews or comments at this forum any longer. But it does nicely sum up everything I think about the story. I, too, hope there's lots of discussion about the book here. Books and book reviewing can create all sorts of conversations, and help fuel critical thinking and writing. (That's not critical as in always criticizing, but critical as in always thinking; as well as always listening to how others feel about a story you have read or heard.)
     
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  2. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I'll get the book when classes are done the end of April if t's out by ten. I'm swamped. But I love critical thinking, - good debates and reading others POV's. The kid stole my heart - on youtube. The rest of it - I'll have to look into more. ;) I'm a softy.
     
  3. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    It's coming out March 21st, Miss Softy. ;) I'm looking forward to your opinion.
     
  4. Kathy

    Kathy Senior Registered

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    I picked up "The Boy Who Knew Too Much" a few days ago. I'd been hearing about it a lot lately and thought that it had been out for a year or more. I was surprised when I google'd it that it's only supposed to be released this coming Tuesday. It's very well written and I was shocked when they started talking about Dr. Ian Stevenson and Carol. Once again, it's one of those books that's meant to be in my life.
     
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  5. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    I'm curious, why were you shocked when the author mentioned Carol and Ian Stevenson?
     
  6. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Okay, the book is out and here's my review link at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/review/R23CAHRB517535/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm . The book has already gotten a lot of 5-star "glowing" reviews at Amazon, but so many of those were posted right after the book was released, and were written by reviewers who have only written one review or not that many. That is a sign of author associated reviews, something Amazon does not allow; but it happens all the time, and Amazon does nothing about the matter. That's not to suggest those not associated with the author will not like the book. There's obviously lots of readers like that who do like the book, and lots more to come, I'm sure.

    Personally, I don't believe this is a legitimate past life case, although Carol does. (Jim Tucker has studied it, but that's all. He did not verify it.) There's too many red flags, in my opinion, and Cathy Byrd obviously has always wanted public attention for her son, and now herself. So, what do you all think about the book? And how do you decide if a metaphysical book is honest or not? How do you think the evidence presented in this story compares to the James Leininger case, or other past life cases you have read about? Do you mostly go by evidence in deciding if a case is true or not, or feelings, or both?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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  7. Jody

    Jody Senior Registered

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    I'm reading this book right now and it's really well-written. I highly recommend it!
     
  8. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    You highly recommend it because it is really well-written, or because you believe what the author is saying is true, and not something fabricated for psychological and/or financial reasons?
     
  9. Jody

    Jody Senior Registered

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    Well, it certainly gives one food for thought. It's just a fun book to read, and you have to admit that kid really does have talent.
    Look him up on youtube!
     
  10. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    He does have talent and he is cute, but that doesn't mean his mother's claim that he is Lou Gehrig is true, or that she was Lou Gehrig's mother. I'm just curious why people believe or disbelieve specific metaphysical books like this one. Is it more feelings or thought, or equally both? With this story there is a big red flag about Cathy Byrd's attempts in the past to get her son public attention. This reviewer at Amazon did an excellent job concentrating on that in her review: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01MZ9BA07. Now, my question to anyone and everyone--does the fact his mother obviously has always wanted her son to be in the public eye make you question the truthfulness of this story or not? Why or why not?

    P.S. While I do not believe this is a true story, I'm not asking questions to try to get anyone to think like I do. I just want to understand why everyone is thinking what they are thinking about this past life story.
     
  11. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I finally completed the book after several pauses. Yes the author's need for word-count shows some "filling" that was distracting, but that is a reality of book-writing.
    Overall, I liked it. It is believable and interesting. There will probably never be enough "proof" to satisfy a large percentage of people; this book is no exception in that area.
     
  12. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Yes, except this book has no proof whatsoever.:rolleyes: What makes you believe the story? (Once again, I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just curious specifically what makes readers believe a story like this one.) For those who want to read the book and haven't gotten a copy, the Kindle version is now only 99 cents at Amazon.
     
  13. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Proof - what an interesting word. I don't think that I could PROVE anything really. The math in my PhD Dissertation was compelling, remarkably difficult to have a different conclusion, yet was it PROOF? How can we prove that we went to the moon several decades ago? Can you prove that you are just curious about what makes readers believe a story like this? Do you think you could formulate an acceptable response? Not easy is it!

    Not to be argumentative, I will address your question. I have been fortunate enough to have had the time to read hundreds of books on the subject. There are inconsistencies is some stories that cast doubt on some stories, I did not find any in this book. Like the James Leninger book, there was detailed verification where alternative explanations would be even less tenable.

    I would suggest that you seriously read Ian Stevenson's research. I'd like to hear of your concerns with it
     
  14. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Feel free to be argumentative, if you wish, Ken. I just don't know what is allowed or not allowed in this forum any longer in regards to such discussions. Well, I am curious about what makes readers believe a story like this, because, as time goes on, it just seems like more and more people just believe whatever they want. I've read all of Ian Stevenson's books, although I read them years ago, and I now have a middle-aged brain that no longer remembers all that I've read in the past. Dr. Stevenson's scientific type work actually often bored me, but I still found it interesting. The one exception to that was the book on European cases, but then I ended up thinking he was not "scientific" enough in regards to the stories in that book!

    Sorry, I see absolutely no comparison between this book and the James Leninger story. That actually had details that were verified, and his past life was apparently proved through various sources. Same with Ryan Hammons' story. All this book is a boy's mother making claim after claim that cannot be verified in any way shape or form, because ALL the details come from her. What "detailed verifications" are you possibly talking about? What details do not come from the boy's mother, who obviously has tried to get public attention for her son in one way or another since he was a tot? I've read hundreds of metaphysical books, too, including most mainstream ones on reincarnation. This book reads like it was written by someone who knew quite a bit about the subject of children's past lives, not by some naive soul who shockingly stumbled on to the field of reincarnation when her son started making weird claims. Why else do you think she kept denying knowing things?
     
  15. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What I was recalling when I wrote that was the gifts to the Steiglers and Christian's feelings about "the Babe". Whether or not you view Cathy's motives for writing the book as being "honest", I see no claim by her or others that it serves as a "Proof" that you seem to want to attach to it.

    From reading your review of the book, you seem to have a problem with Eban Alexander as well. What do you find "dishonest" about his experience? Yes, he did some things in his lifetime that show times his life that are regrettable, does that mean that his whole life is a lie?

    I like the story , about a youngster recalling his murder. Yet it does not PROVE anything since there are other possibilities like clairvoyance, Astral projection,or some other paranormal happening.

    Being a Critic is easy, being an unbiased critic is difficult. My feelings about your posts on this thread are that you would like to find some proof about reincarnation, then it seems that you are interested in exposing fraud or something. There are many of us on this forum that are at various levels of satisfaction in integrating happenings in our lives with our understandings of "reality"; I doubt that you are any different.

    As for the purpose of this forum, it is to discuss things related to past-lives - there is a detailed purpose that you should have read by now.

    I hope that you find what you are looking for. I recall several times in my life feeling the need for the security of "knowing" and thinking that "Proof" offered me some kind of security. Hopefully I've outgrown that need at this time.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  16. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Ken, I'm afraid you have created an imaginary image of me. Not to mention you are no more an "unbiased critic" than I am, or anyone else for that matter. I'm not looking for "proof", or the "security of knowing", or anything else. Those days are long gone. I started in this forum way back before Carol's second book was published, leaving right before that second book was published. That was during a time in my life when I firmly believed everything I believed. Since that time, I've realized you really don't know what happens after death. You and I and all others are only expressing our own personal beliefs, nothing more. I can live with that fact, and that is a fact.

    Those who have had NDEs are not dead, so no matter what they claim, they know what happens after death for certain no more than those who have not had NDEs. Talking of NDEs, all the malpractice suits against Eben Alexander are only one disturbing thing about him. His book was the most disturbing thing. Never has there been an NDE book that displayed such narcissism or delusions of grandeur, in my opinion, and I have read LOTS of NDE books. Add to that, he created a metaphysical organization where he wanted donors to give him $10,000 a year or $50,000 all at once to join his "blue butterfly club", and I would say you have the most sterling example ever of someone trying desperately to jump on board the New Age gravy train.

    No, Cathy Byrd is not claiming "proof" of reincarnation. In fact, she is even now claiming she's not trying to prove her son was Lou Gehrig. What nonsense! Of course she is. She's claiming someone else's fame for both her and her son; and, without doing so, she would have not had a book or a movie contract; because there's no real story when it's only a child claiming to be a baseball player in a past life, when the identity of who he was could not be discovered; as it was in the James Leiniger case. Moreover, anyone who does not accept her story is being portrayed as someone who doesn't appreciate her desire to spread love and light and truth to all of mankind. Again, what nonsense. Believe it or not, Ken, I was hoping the Christian Haupt story was another James Leiniger story, something that really created some interesting thoughts in the minds of those who read the book. Instead, sadly, in my opinion, it's just another New Age book by an author with an agenda.
     
  17. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What people do with opportunities that present themselves is interesting. Jenny Cockell's book "Across Time and Death" captivated me when I read it shortly after it came out, she later wrote "Journey Through Time" which repeated much of what was in the first book. My feelings were that she was "milking" the market until I watched an interview with her and saw her as a human being rather than an author. There have been times in my life where I "knew" things that I had no way of knowing, from things that are forbidden on this forum to seemingly bizarre things like the use of "sound" to levitate monolithic blocks of stone to Paul's use of hallucinogens while on the road to Damascus. Where do those "knowings" come from? I've Always known them, I can't defend them, nor can I explain them. Each of us struggle with the conflicts in our lifetimes.

    The view that an NDE offers little because the where not REALLY dead is different than my view. That state of consciousness is rare and offers us a different perspective about "reality". My eldest daughter experienced an NDE when they "lost her" during a surgery. It was an important incident in her life. I am not sure what changes it made or exactly how important it was to her. It was not something she exploited or even spoke about very much.

    Is that a Fact or a Belief - no I don't really want to go there - just pointing out a possible problem with your position on this subject.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  18. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I tend to get too involved in thought when posting as I just did and forget something that I intended to include. An interesting part of my education was in NLP and Ericksonian Hypnosis during the 1980's and the study of neural processing, particularly the processes, and sequences, of "knowing" - how we "know" something - our personalized method of checks and balances. Most people do not know what their processes are let alone even realize that they use such a thing. What was scary to me was that it is easy to observe and is usable by others to manipulate them into accepting something. This is widely used nowadays, I believe, to influence people. The 2016 USA election is an example where lies were general seen as truth on both sides. This power to influence people at such a primary level scared me because there were so many incompetent people in the field, and the APA appeared to me to be like a union that supported and guarded their members.

    Imagine the power that a person has over another when they can touch them at such a basic level that they know how they process information, where something can be inserted, how it would be assimilated, and what new "reality" would be for that person. Totally mind-blowing to be able to create a new "history" for a person, and it was a simple thing to do. Yes, I did it with the best of intentions - no, I was not adequately supervised. I left the profession for several reasons, one was fear, another was that I did not want to be associated with a lot of the practitioners.
     
  19. autumnleavesnnovember

    autumnleavesnnovember Active Member

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    Ken, you're way deeper into the metaphysical field than I am. I would call myself a middle-of-the-road metaphysical type, and that's how I see and judge metaphysical books and topics. (And one must constantly judge to become a good judge and a good critical thinker.) By my comments, I was not trying to claim anyone's genuine NDE is worthless, especially not to the person who experienced it. But individuals have all sorts of NDE experiences, and whose is real, if it conflicts with someone else's NDE? Moreover, it was NDE books that made me realize many years ago there was so much fraud in the metaphysical book world. Book after book with the word "light" in the title were being released, and it was obvious people were making up stuff to sell books.

    Both Eben Alexander's first book and the 2016 Presidential Election made me realize how nonexistent critical thinking has become in the lives of so many. That's why I fear too many people just believe what they want; they just see someone how they want, not how they actually happen to be. Can they not recognize narcissism or repeated refusal to take responsibility for one's actions? You don't have to take even one psychology class to recognize those things. Yes, seeing and listening to an author "in person" may give you a different view of the person than by reading, but a book can provide more important details about how they truly think and feel. Some individuals are very good actors, too. If I remember correctly, I had no trouble believing Jenny Cockell's story, and felt her second book about future lives was nowhere near as interesting. (But, then, I've never gotten into future life stuff at all.)

    In addition, while I certainly believe you may know things that defy the logic of you knowing such things, I do think part of the reason for the critical thinking shortage today is due to individuals incorrectly thinking they are highly insightful and intuitive. You see this online all the time. Often these incredibly uninsightful and unintuitive souls even have "groupies" who follow them around online praising their "abilities". Yet these "psychic" types can provide no evidence, or will provide no evidence, to support their beliefs. Why should they? Their thinking is obvious inborn and special! Defending and deeply defining their thoughts would kill the specialness of it all. It's like magic, or some God-given talent they were chosen to possess. :rolleyes:

    P.S. Although I've probably stated this before, by "critical thinking", I'm not referring to how scientist view the term, but more how a philosopher would view it.
     
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  20. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I appreciate your post, and I want to add that I was deeply disappointed in not receiving some "greater" power due to the life-changing brain injury I sustained forty-six years ago. Alas, my life just continued with "strange" things still happening periodically as they had before without receiving any "greater" abilities of any kind. Having been hit in the head by one of about fifty large bricks that fell from the twelfth floor of the building I was working on (I was at ground level), I had no chance of survival. The brick punched a hole in my skull about the size of a half-dollar and fractured a vertebra in my neck (that was not discovered for years). I "awoke" hearing someone ask "is he dead?" Although I couldn't open my eyes, I mumbled something to let them know I was indeed alive. The Medic in the back ambulance told the driver that there was no need to hurry because "he isn't going to make it". Yeah, I've had an interesting life, but hold no belief in having a "superior" understanding beyond its being somewhat broadened by my experiences. I know that I agreed to this life before birth and had the knowledge that I could manage it, I feel pretty good about most of it.

    I agree with much of what you say about fraud, abuse, and "special" people. And, of course I agree with the comments about the media controlled thinking (or non-thinking). I wonder if I had happenings that I felt worthy of a book, if I would be criticized for being brain-injured, trying to "milk" the system, or something similar.
     

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