The Christian Haupt Story

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by autumnleavesnnovember, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    OK. Christina and Henry Gehrigs' immigration stories.

    During her last two past life regressions with Jeroen, Cathy Byrd (as Mom Gehrig) talked about the immigration stories of Christina and Henry Gehrig, how they met in her hometown in Germany and then how they immigrated together on the same passenger ship to New York at the turn of the last century. It's a fine story as far as it goes even if it has little basis in fact. First we'll go over Cathy's account, then we'll go over what I could glean from on-line records and from Jonathan Eig's thoroughly researched book, Luckiest Man The Life and Death of Lou Gehrig, 2005.

    From Cathy Byrd's past life regression transcripts available on her website www. cathy-byrd. com under Regressions:

    CBRT.2 (June, 2014) pp.9-13:

    p.9 Jeroen: So, what is important about this day? Cathy: There is a guy that I like. I see that he wears a black suit. He is 28. Jeroen: What does he look like? Cathy: Thin - not too tall - kind of quiet. Jeroen: What do you like about him? Cathy: He's older, adventurous, a business man. Jeroen: Does he live close to you? Cathy: Yeah. Jeroen: In the same city? Cathy: Yeah. Jeroen: What does the city feel like? Does it pretty big or average size? Cathy: It's kind of a small town. It's not a big city, but it has a downtown with shops. Jeroen: Does he live in the town? Cathy: Yeah, his family owns a shop. Jeroen: What kind of a shop? Cathy: A hardware store with tools. Jeroen: Is he interested in you too? Does he like you? Cathy: Yeah. He wants to move away too. Jeroen: That's nice. Do you guys know where you want to go? Cathy: To America. Jeroen: What is the country right now? What do you call the country? Cathy: Feels like Europe - like Northern Germany. . . .

    p.11-12 Cathy: I think we'll probably get married. Cathy: . . . We just got to America too. Jeroen: You did. So, there's a lot going on in your life. Cathy: We have to find a house. Jeroen: Did you find a house already? Cathy: We're looking. We just got here. Jeroen: So, where are you staying while you're looking? Cathy: Just like a family . . . has room. . . . Jeroen: Is this part of your family? Cathy: No, just a family that we met. . . . Jeroen: Now how was the journey over? Cathy: It was a long ride. We had to sleep on the boat - on the top of the boat. Jeroen: What do you mean on top of the boat? Cathy: Like up on deck. Jeroen: Really. It must have been cold? Cathy: Yeah. There was black steam coming out of the ship. Jeroen: About how long did it take? Cathy: 14 days. Jeroen: That's quite long, isn't it? Cathy: Yeah, it was a long trip. We weren't able to take a shower. Jeroen: Was it a crowded boat? Cathy: It was crowded. . . . Jeroen: How did you feel when you arrived at your destination? Cathy: Very relieved.

    p.13 Jeroen: To get off the boat? Cathy: Yeah. Had to sign in. Jeroen: Sign in? When you got off the boat you mean? Cathy: Yeah. Jeroen: What did that feel like? Cathy: It felt a little rushed. Jeroen: Busy? Cathy: Yeah, very busy with people from all over. Jeroen: What did the signing in entail? Did they just want your name or did they ask for medical information? Cathy: They wanted your name and your birthday and where you're from. Jeroen: Were there doctors? Like some people would get taken to the side because they didn't look healthy? Cathy: No, they didn't ask us for that. Jeroen: Did they tell you where to go? Give you any advice? Or they just wanted your information and then figure it out yourself? Cathy: Yeah, we just went first night and just found a place to stay. We didn't have a lot of money with us. We just decided to stay in New York. . . .


    CBRT.3 (November, 2014) p.7:

    p.7 Jeroen: Did you miss Germany? Cathy: A little bit, but I never had the time or the money to go over there. Jeroen: What do you miss about it? Cathy: Miss the scenery - family. Jeroen: Are you from a small town or a city? Cathy: Small town - not a big city, but there were some shops and things. Jeroen: Did you and your husband meet in the States or in Germany? Cathy: I knew his family. Jeroen: Were you in the same area? Cathy: Yeah. Jeroen: When did you decide to get married? Cathy: I think he was in the States and he came back. Jeroen: So you guys knew each other before you left? Cathy: Yeah. Jeroen: Did you date at all? Cathy: Not earlier, but maybe at the time he came back. He came back to see family. We have family together, like cousins or something. We're not related, but we went to family things together. Jeroen: Were you in love with him? Cathy: I was kind of ready for change and he knew how to get by in America. . . .

    Just to be clear, Cathy, in her third regression with Jeroen, has Henry returning to Germany from America sometime in the 1890s, meeting Christina in her hometown, where apparently Henry Gehrig's family also lived or at least had moved to and started a hardware shop while Henry was away in America.

    There is only one record from which one might create a story that Henry Gehrig returned to Germany, to Christina's hometown in Schleswig-Holstein (state in northern Germany bordering Denmark), met and fell in love with Christina, with the two of them deciding to head back to America together, unmarried, aboard the same ship.
    That would be in Mom Gehrig's March 12, 1954 obituary where the article briefly mentions that Christina was a native of Denmark and came to America with her future husband Henry Gehrig at the turn of the (last) century. That's it. The Gehrigs really never talked about their past lives in Germany, and anything we can know is based on genealogical and immigration records which, admittedly, aren't always as complete as we'd like them to be, especially before 1897 (when a fire at Ellis Island destroyed tens of thousands of immigration records).

    According to the records, Henry Gehrig, born 1867, immigrated to America Oct 1, 1887 (New York State Naturalization Records 1794-1940) as he declared to NY State immigration and naturalization authorities, April 30, 1903. He first went to Chicago in 1887 where he tried to make a go of it before moving to New York City sometime thereafter. Jonathan Eig's research goes much deeper. According to Jonathan Eig (Luckiest Man, 2005, Chapter 1, The Survivor, searchable via books.google.com), Henry Gehrig was born March 12, 1867 in Adelsheim, a small town in the Neckar Odenwald Kreis, in the old state of Baden (which would ally itself with Prussia after the Austro-Prussian war of 1866) (Baden-Wurttemberg is a modern state in southwestern Germany put together after WW2). Henry Gehrig was the 7th of 9 children and born into a very poor family. Growing up in Adelsheim, hundreds of miles south of Schleswig-Holstein, Henry trained as an ornamental metal worker. Christina Gehrig (nee Fack or Facke) was born in 1881 or 1882 in Wilster, Holstein (Schleswig-Holstein) about 30 miles northwest of Hamburg, Germany. When she turned 18 she bought a third-class (steerage) ticket for New York aboard the Hamburg-America line's passenger ship, Pennsylvania. Ellis Island passenger records list her name as "Christine Fack" (searchable at Ellis Island passenger records), and Hamburg-America passenger ship records of the Pennsylvania's voyage (departed Hamburg May 13, 1900 arrived New York, May 25, 1900) confirm the Ellis Island record, listing her as Christine Fack, age 18, from Wilster, Holstein. US census records from 1910 and 1920 list Christina Gehrig's year of immigration as 1900, listing her country of origin as Germany, her ethnic origin and native tongue as German. (Of course during and after WW1 and WW2 it became a little inconvenient to say you were from Germany, so, if you happened to have been born in 19th century Schleswig-Holstein, a contested part of Germany (contested between Denmark, Prussia, and Austria), Denmark would suffice. For completeness, ancestry . com has a record of a "Christina Facke" born about 1880 in Germany, departing Bremen, Germany, and arriving in New York November 20, 1897, aboard a passenger ship Karlsruhe.

    Sorry for the minutia, but now I need to get to the point. Did Henry and Christina travel to America together aboard the same passenger ship? Not that any record would indicate. Passenger ships arriving in New York from Germany typically carried 2000-2700 passengers, the bulk of which were third-class steerage ticket holders. When they got to the Hoboken, NJ piers, first and second class ticket holders (about 300 passengers total) were allowed to continue on to their final destinations. Third-class ticket holders were divided up into groups of 30 and carried by barge one group at a time the mile and a half down the Hudson River to Ellis Island for processing. Third class ticket holders, which from Cathy Byrd's regression description, Christina (and Henry) most certainly would have been, typically spent 3-5 hours on Ellis Island, waiting in crowded lines, being interviewed and inspected for trachoma (a very contagious eye-disease), and other diseases, during hurried medical exams (In 1905, for example, Ellis Island processed 800,000 newly arrived third class passengers). If Henry and Christina traveled together, you'd think they'd have been listed on the same group manifest. But they weren't, probably because they didn't travel together. At some point after her arrival, Mom Gehrig, through fellow Germans she had met on the boat over or even at Ellis Island, found her way to the German-speaking section of New York City, to the Yorkville tenement section on the east side of Manhattan in the east 90s, barely considered to be part of NYC at the time. She apparently met and married Henry Gehrig there in the Yorkville tenements of NYC,(married November 27, 1901) in a hurried marriage (Mom Gehrig mentioned during an interview at her son's "elopement" with Eleanor Twitchell, Sept 29, 1933, that she and Henry Gehrig had also "eloped").
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  2. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Yes, the factual matching isn't very good here.

    Something else I find interesting concerns Jeroen's questioning. There are some leading questions (i.e. ones that require yes or no as answer), which is somewhat problematic, though to be fair most of his questions are not. But he also doesn't ask ones that could provide verifiable info. "What was the name of your home town?" "What was the name of the port the ship left from?" "How did you get from your hometown to the port?" "What was the name of the ship?" "What was the date the ship left the port?" Failing that, "what season of the year was it?" Etc. etc. On such questions are strong cases built.

    Thanks again for taking the time to research in such depth.
     
  3. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    I hope we can talk about "leading questions" later on. It is an important issue to explore especially when trying to determine the validity of statements made by people reporting PLR experiences or, for that matter, the validity of statements made by a parent reporting odd things that their child might have said that may or may not be related to a past life memory. Needless to say, the spontaneity and specificity of the statement is the key here, especially for small children who would otherwise have no prior exposure or access to the information in question through normal means.

    With adults, it's a somewhat more complicated matter. Adults can acquire seemingly the most obscure information out there, especially nowadays with TV, film, the internet, ability to travel cheaply anywhere in the world, etc. so one must be doubly dubious about claims of any "new" information coming from an adult either out of the blue or under any sort or hypnotic suggestion or regression session. We talked about cryptomnesia, forgotten memory lodged in the subconscious rising to the surface and subsequently perceived as "new" memory ("I absolutely did not know that before." ) and the related issues of self-delusion or self-deception -- but there is always the possibility of deliberate fraud or consciously manipulating the data (deception).

    In Cathy Byrd's case and especially with her PLR sessions with Jeroen, we can't know if she came up with any "new" information based on a past life memory during her 3 PLRs with Jeroen because we can't know exactly every piece of information or photograph she had exposed herself to during her months of intensive research into the lives of Lou Gehrig and his mother, Mom Gehrig. Despite her research, despite contacting Steigler family members, despite her hour-long phone conversations with Rev. Ken Steigler, beginning in February 2014, Cathy felt that there was at least the possibility of uncovering "proof" of her son's odd statements especially his statement that she, Cathy, was his mother (Mom Gehrig) in a past life, by means of a PLR session. On p. 118 of her book, Cathy says that Dr Tucker allowed for this possibility (of coming up with "new" information during a PLR session), however remote, when she reports him (Dr. Tucker) telling her:

    " 'Most of the time hypnotic regression seems to produce fantasy, but there are a few rare cases where people came up with accurate information from the past that's very hard to explain.' " (CB, The Boy Who Knew Too Much, 2017: 118).

    As I've tried to show above, much of what Cathy came up with during her PLR sessions with Jeroen, can be attributed to either forgotten memory, faulty memory,incomplete memory, incomplete research or creative riffs of off all of the above ("fantasy" or creatively filling in the gaps of what she doesn't know with a little bit of "based on a true story" "story-telling" ), consciously or subconsciously. Especially by the November 2014 PLR session with Jeroen. Think about it. This session, the third and final session, was, at least the first half anyway, about Mom Gehrig's final 3 years living with the Steigler family in Milford, Connecticut. But Cathy had already had long phone conversations with the target family (Jill and Ken Steigler, and possibly their mother who was still alive in Feb 2014), had researched the family on ancestry . com and by googling, and sometime in July 2014, had even made the trip back east to Cooperstown, NY from her home in Southern California, to the National Baseball Hall of Fame's Library and Archives where she came across who knows how many donated private photos of the Gehrig family, and, in particular, of Mom Gehrig and her life in New York and Connecticut after Lou's death in June 1941 and her husband's death in August 1946.

    To give one example from Cathy's 3rd PLR session with Jeroen, Cathy comes up with an obscure detail about Mom Gehrig's car, that, with a little research on my part, turned out to be, if not verifiable, then at least very plausible:

    CBRT3. p.3 (November, 2014):

    Jeroen: Do you have any activities you do outside of the house? Cathy: I drive sometimes. I have a car. It's kind of a big car. Jeroen: Where do you park it? Cathy: It is in the driveway - kind of like a gravel driveway Jeroen: What color is your car? Cathy: Dark color - like grayish black - not real shiny. Jeroen: Is the engine in the back or in the hood? Cathy: Not sure. It could be in the front. It has a big tail end so it might be in the back. Ford or Chrysler or something like that. Jeroen: What does the area look like? Cathy: There's houses nearby, but not too close. We don't see the neighbors too much. Jeroen: What does the house look like that you live in? Cathy: It's got siding on the outside, like slats of wood on the outside, white. And I think the car has a personal plate - New York. Might say "CG" - only a few letters. But I don't think I'm in New York, up a bit, like Connecticut - outside of New York. Jeroen: How many floors does the house have? Cathy: Just one. No wait, there are stairs but I don't go up there. I stay on the ground floor. The kids might be upstairs. The stairs are wood too.

    The detail here is the personal plate on Mom Gehrig's car with initials "CG" (for "Christina Gehrig"). It turns out that in 1942 there was a shortage of steel due to the war, so the government decided to require only one license plate per car placed on the rear of the vehicle. The front license plate was removed and donated to the war effort. However, (and this is from a contemporary article I read on newspapers . com) many people thought it would be fun to put a personalized metal plate on the front of their cars, oftentimes personalized with just their initials (eg., for Christina Gehrig "CG"). Of course, this defeated the purpose of the new law, the fallacy of which the article pointed out. So was this a "new" memory that Cathy retrieved from a past life as Mom Gehrig living in Milford, Connecticut with the Steigler family or did she come across a photo of Mom Gehrig in her car with the front plate visible, or did Rev. Ken mention this detail over the phone. We can't know.

    Just as an aside, Ken Steigler's parents were 3rd generation Americans on his father's side, and at least 2nd generation Americans on his mother's side. Neither one were German or born in Germany as Cathy describes them in her third PLR session with Jeroen (CBRT.3. pp.4 and 7, and in her book bottom of p.178).

    Also, just as an added note, there was a 2 June 1942 newspaper interview of Mom Gehrig where she says Babe Ruth moved in with them for almost a month at the time of his first wife's death in early 1929 (not for a year as Cathy unfortunately mis-remembered from the article, which she herself had clipped on 15 March 2015).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  4. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Just a quickie this time from cathy byrd's youtube channel "Preschooler throws first pitch at MLB game - baseball kid Christian Haupt www.cathy-byrd.com".

    Christian Haupt, just turned age 4, throws out the first pitch, Dodger Stadium, I believe Sept 1, 2012, even though the video wasn't posted until July 2013.



    Anyway, the gang's all there to watch, including Rich Rodriguez and his lovely wife Malia at 3:07 - 3:14. Rich Rodriguez, as you'll recall, is the former MLB left-handed pitcher, who founded "Elite Nine", a youth baseball mentoring group in the LA area in 2012. He (and I'll assume Malia) is a friend of Cathy's, and I strongly suspect is the "ex-professional baseball player" friend who explained what "shaking off the sign" meant to Cathy in early 2012.

    Also note Christian's left-handed thumbs up at 1:12, and Rich Rodriguez's left-handed thumbs up around 3:12. Only Christian and Rich are shown giving this sign.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  5. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Here is an example of what I was talking about the post before last. It's interesting in that Cathy (as Mom Gehrig) during her 3rd PLR session with Jeroen (Nov 2014) repeats a misunderstanding about Rev. Ken Steigler's family history that Rev. Ken innocently and unknowingly related to Cathy during one of his long phone conversations with her, evidently sometime before her 3rd PLR session. I had to do a fair amount of genealogical research on ancestry . com to get to the truth of the matter, which Cathy apparently didn't do, at least not to the extent I did, so I think I can tell the story properly this time around, apologies to Rev. Ken!

    Here are the relevant passages from Cathy Byrd's book, The Boy Who Knew Too Much, Hay House, 2017:

    The context is a phone conversation between Rev. Ken Steigler (b. 1941/2 - ) and Cathy, in which Rev. Ken talks about Mom Gehrig (1882-1954) and her life with his family (the George K. Steigler family) in Milford, Connecticut during the early 1950s:

    p. 191 "It was as if Pastor Ken was reciting the transcripts of my past-life regression when he told me that Mom Gehrig was like a mother to his own mother, Laurel [Laurel (Long) Steigler, 1918-2014], who was 36 years her junior. Ken told me that the deep bond between the two women had been forged through their shared experience of being discriminated against by shopkeepers for their German heritage back in the days when they were neighbors and friends in New York City."

    In this next passage Cathy has regressed back to Mom Gehrig during her 3rd and final PLR session with Jeroen (November 2014):

    p. 178 "I felt a warm smile come to my face as I replied [to Jeroen's question "How old are the kids?"], 'A couple of boys, like eleven and twelve, and a little girl. Maybe ten- and twelve-year-old boys. They are sweet. I like being around family . . . They were nice to take me in. I kind of ran out of money. I have a little bit left, not really enough for a house, I used to have a house here.' I told Jeroen the family I lived with was much younger than me, but we had in common that they also came over from Germany and liked baseball, too."

    Rev. Ken Steigler's mother, Laurel, was born 10 Oct 1918 in Pelham, New York (a community wedged between New Rochelle and Mt. Vernon in Westchester County, New York) to Nicholas Richard Long (Nicolo R. Longo) (b. 1890 in Elmsford, NY) and Olive (White) Long (b. 1889 in Kentucky). The Longo family had already anglocized their Italian surname to "Long" sometime in the previous generation. According to the 1905 NY State census, the family did indeed live in the same neighborhood as the Gehrigs, in what is today East Harlem, Manhattan, NY, at 326 E. 104th (or E. 109th) Street, Manhattan, NYC. Lou Gehrig (Henry Louis Gehrig) was born in 1903 at 1994 Second Avenue (cross E. 103rd Street), Manhattan, NYC, but moved to the Washington Heights section of Manhattan sometime in 1908-1910
    ( according to the 1910 US Census the Gehrigs lived at 2264 Amsterdam Ave.). In 1910 the Long(o)'s lived at 1910 E. 107th Street, Manhattan, NYC. Although Laurel would not have been born yet (she wouldn't be born until 1918), she did have an older brother, Harry Arthur Long, who was born in 1908, in the same (East Harlem) neighborhood that the Gehrigs lived in at the time. As I mentioned the Gehrigs moved out of this neighborhood sometime between 1908 and 1910 to the somewhat more hostile at the time (as far as discrimination is concerned) Washington Heights neighborhood in the far northern part of Manhattan. The Gehrigs moved again sometime between 1917 and 1920 to an 8th Avenue apartment in the Morningside Heights neighborhood (a little southeast of Columbia University, cross W. 113th Street). According to the 1920 US Census the Long family, parents Nicholas and Olive and children Harry and Laurel, lived on Arden Street at the northernmost tip of Manhattan). By 1925 the Long family had moved to Mt. Vernon, Westchester County, New York (1925 NY State Census data).

    Laurel (Long) Steigler's father, Nicholas R. Long's WW1 1919 military service card records his residence as 2294 Second Avenue [Manhattan] (cross E. 118th Street), NYC during his WW1 military service years (1917-1919) which is in the same East Harlem neighborhood that the Gehrigs used to live in until 1910 at the latest. By the way, Laurel Steigler's father, Nicholas R. Long was stationed at Fort Slocum on Davids' Island just off the Westchester County, NY coastline in Long Island Sound, 1917-1919.

    Laurel (Long) Steigler, ie., Rev. Ken's mother, was half Italian-American (through her first generation father, Nicholas (Nicolo) R. Longo) and half Anglo-American (through her mother, Olive White). (If you look at the photo of Laurel Steigler on her obit page (google search Laurel Steigler Milford, Connecticut), she looks like the quintessential Italian grandmother). Laurel (Long) Steigler was the granddaughter of Italian immigrants on her father's side. Her Italian grandparents (grandfather b. 1852 in Italy and grandmother b. 1861 in Italy) must have immigrated to New York in the 1880s. Laurel (Long) Steigler's parents, Nicholas and Olive Long(o) did live in the same East Harlem neighborhood in the early 1900s as the Gehrigs, and so could have been friends and neighbors with them during Lou Gehrig's toddler and early childhood years. Mom Gehrig and Laurel's mother, Olive, may even have looked after their boys, Lou (b. 1903), and Laurel's older brother, Harry (b. 1908) together.

    (continued in next post)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  6. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Laurel (Long) Steigler (Rev. Ken's mother), married Rev. Ken's father, George Kenneth Steigler (1918-1996), 17 March 1940 in Mamaroneck, Westchester County, NY. George Kenneth Steigler, as the name suggests, was a German-American, but he was a third generation German-American, from a family with Long Island, New York roots going back to the mid-19th century. There is nothing in the records that indicate that the Steigler family lived in NYC or were neighbors with or knew the Gehrig family. As far as Laurel Steigler herself goes, she may have known Mom and Pop Gehrig in the 1920s and 1930s as a young girl, because of a possible friendship between the Gehrigs and Laurel (Long) Steigler's mother, Olive Long (or mother and father, Olive and Nicholas Long(o)s ) which would have gone back to the Gehrigs early years in NYC, the early 1900s. Laurel Steigler wasn't born until 1918, when Lou Gehrig was 15 and a sophomore at Commerce High School (= High School of Commerce) in Manhattan. Mom Gehrig was 36 in 1918; Rev. Ken's grandmother, Olive Long would have been 29. Around this timeframe (1917-1920) the Gehrigs had moved to an 8th Avenue apartment in the Morningside Heights section of Manhattan (cross W. 113th St.), that is, a completely different neighborhood from the Longs, who, according to the 1920 US Census were living in a neighborhood at the far northernmost tip of Manhattan, in an apartment at 1 Arden St. By 1925 the Longs were living in Mt. Vernon, Westchester County, NY (1925 NY State census data) and by 1930, according to the 1930 US Census, the Longs had moved to neighboring Pelham, Westchester County, New York. The 1940 US Census records the widow Olive W. Long living in Pelham, New York, with her daughter Laurel and new son-in-law, George K. Steigler.

    So, yes, it is possible that Rev. Ken's mother, Laurel (Long) Steigler, knew Mom Gehrig growing up, but they would not have lived in the same neighborhood and, given the 36 year age difference, she could only have bonded with the older woman in a sort of surrogate mother - daughter relationship or "Auntie" relationship to the much younger girl. Obviously there could have been a friendship between Rev. Ken's grandmother, Olive Long, and Mom Gehrig, but that is speculative.

    But what about after December 1927, after the Gehrigs had moved into their nice, middle-class house in New Rochelle, Westchester County, New York. Could Rev. Ken's story of Mom Gehrig and his mother's friendship have gone back to the time when both the Gehrigs and the Longs later Steiglers lived in Westchester County (a county in NY just north (actually NNE) of NYC), New York? While it is true that Mt. Vernon, Pelham, and New Rochelle are all adjacent communities in Westchester County, New York, they aren't part of NYC, let alone in NYC. Mom and Pop Gehrig lived in New Rochelle 1928-1937, and Mt. Vernon 1938-1948 (Pop Gehrig to 1946, his death). By late 1927, however, their son, Lou Gehrig would have become quite famous in the New York metro area. Rather than being discriminated against because of their "German heritage" I think the Gehrig's would have been revered because of their New York Yankee star first baseman son, Lou Gehrig. While it is true that Mom Gehrig did have a German accent which wouldn't have sounded nearly as quaint during WW2 as say afterwords, she would only have had to have mentioned her name to get the red carpet treatment in most local shops. (OK, not in the most exclusive shops but that would have been a class thing, not an ethnic thing). As mentioned earlier, the Longs had moved to Mt. Vernon, Westchester County, New York by 1925, and adjacent Pelham, Westchester County, NY by 1930, which would have been less than 3 miles from the Gehrig's future home in New Rochelle, and probably closer when the Gehrigs moved to Mt. Vernon in late 1937.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  7. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    As far as the relationship between the Steiglers and Mom Gehrig, here are the relevant sections of Cathy Byrd's 3rd past life regression with Jeroen (from www. cathy-byrd . com , under Regressions):

    CBRT3.p.4 (November, 2014)

    p.4 Jeroen: How old are the kids? Cathy [as Mom Gehrig]: A couple boys like eleven and twelve and a little girl. Maybe ten- and twelve-year-old boys. They are sweet. I like being around family . . . They were nice to take me in. I kind of ran out of money. I have a little bit left, not really enough for a house. I used to have a house here. I have friends, they are Germans. The family I live with came over from Germany too. They are younger than I am, obviously. They like baseball too.

    The context is Cathy (as Mom Gehrig) talking about Mom Gehrig's life with the George K. Steigler family (George, his wife Laurel, and their kids, 10-year-old Ken Steigler and 7- year-old Jill Steigler) in Milford, Connecticut, 1951-1954. As shown in the previous two posts, the George K. Steiglers were 3rd generation Americans on George's, that is, the father's side, and 2nd generation Americans on Laurel's side, that is, the mother's side. The family Mom Gehrig lived with in Milford, Connecticut did not come over from Germany. They most likely did not speak German.

    A little later on in the regression Jeroen and Cathy get back to the Steigler family and Mom Gehrig's relationship with them:

    CBRT3.p.7 (November, 2014)

    p.7 Jeroen: How old are her [Laurel Steigler's] kids? Cathy: The boys are like 10 and 11. The girl is maybe like 7. Jeroen: And the girl? Cathy: I don't know, like Janie or Jill. She has short dark hair. Jeroen: Do you speak German in the house? Cathy: I do with her, but the kids don't speak. They understand some German, but they don't speak it.

    It's more than likely that Mrs. Laurel Steigler did not speak German. She was born in 1918 in Pelham, Westchester County, New York, lived for a short time in NYC as a toddler, then returned to Westchester County (Mt. Vernon) by 1925, by the time she had turned 7. She came from a 2nd generation Italian-American family. She might have known a few words in Italian.

    But there's an even more important point to be made here. In her regression Cathy (as Mom Gehrig) correctly names the name of the Steigler daughter "Jill", a remarkable bit of information for someone who supposedly had no knowledge or contact with the Steigler family prior to the 3rd regression. Surely the revelation of such an eye-popping hit -- coming up with an obscure, difficult to come by piece of information like the name of a child that Mom Gehrig once knew in the early 1950s would have found its way into Cathy's book. Nope. Not a word. The relevant pages are pp. 195-197 where purportedly Cathy and Rev. Ken are discussing the jewelry Mom Gehrig had left Laurel Steigler as inheritance gifts for her children, Ken and Jill, whose ages Cathy (as Mom Gehrig) correctly gave as 10 and 7 years old.

    I don't know why Cathy chose not to include this otherwise hard to explain piece of information from the 3rd regression in her book. Maybe because, by this time, Jill's name wasn't so remarkable to her. As for the ages of Ken Steigler and his sister Jill go, you'd be surprised what you can find on the internet. Try google searching your own name with the town or state you live in sometime.

    As for the jewelry and Cathy's detailed description of the gold necklace with jade pendant that Lou had given his mother probably from his 1934 trip to Japan, we are talking about inherited items that are generally spelled out in a will, Mom Gehrig's will in this case, which is probably kept at the National Baseball Hall of Fame Archives in Cooperstown, NY, which Cathy had visited in mid-July 2014.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  8. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Just going over one of Cathy's youtube video clips, and found a subtle difference between Cathy's text appearing on pp. 21-22 of her book and the exchange she recorded between Adam Sandler, his producer Kevin, and Christian, during a break in filming of "That's My Boy" (2012) in the Cape Cod, Massachusetts area, early August, 2011. Kevin and Adam are having some fun with Christian (aka Baseball Konrad). From the recording, it sounds like Kevin and Adam are trying to wangle a couple of tickets out of Christian (Konrad) for the Red Sox - Yankees game either that night or for a game years in the future after Christian has become a professional baseball player. In case you might be wondering, Boston and New York are fierce rivals. Kevin, apparently, is the Red Sox fan; Adam, the Yankees fan.

    From Cathy Byrd's book, The Boy Who Knew Too Much (Hay House, 2017):

    p.21-22 (Aug 1-7, 2011) Kevin, the producer we had met at the rehearsal a few days earlier, then showed up to walk us over to a tent behind home plate to meet Adam Sandler. Adam put Christian at ease right away with a high five, and then proceeded to ask him questions about baseball while I shot photos and videos of the sweet interaction.
    “So, Konrad, can I count on you to hook me up with tickets?” Adam joked. “What team are you going to play for? You’re going to play for the Dodgers.”
    “No!” Kevin objected, “he’s going to play for the Red Sox!”
    Christian surprised us all when he shook his head from side to side and said, “I play for the Yankees.”

    [Transcription of Cathy Byrd’s youtube video, 5 year-old baseball kid Christian Haupt 2014 MLB All-Star Game commercial & best first pitches, 3:30 -- 3:45]

    Adam (holding almost 3-year-old Christian in his arms): “. . .tickets, yes?” (Christian shakes his head yes).
    Kevin (off camera): “ . . .play for the Red Sox, though, and not the Yankees.”
    Adam: “You’re gonna play for the Red Sox or the Yankees?” “You’re going to play for the Dodgers. He’s gonna be on the Dodgers.” (Christian shakes his head no).
    Christian: “Ee play bor Yinkeez” [= “I play for the Yankees” or “I’m going to play for the Yankees.”]
    Adam: “He’s going to play for the Yankees! He’s my boy, he’s my boy!”
    Adam (smiling and bobbing Christian up and down): “Thank you, Buddy.”

    The book version fits nicely with the narrative. Christian, The Boy Who Knows Too Much, unexpectedly comes out with an odd statement about playing for the Yankees. The text is a little stilted since the Dodgers (National League) and the Red Sox (American League) don't often play against each other.

    The youtube video version is a little more ambiguous. Not knowing anything else, you might conclude that Christian had taken a liking to Adam, and therefore the Yankees, and/or doesn't really like Kevin and therefore his beloved Boston Red Sox. But the interpretation is really up for grabs here. Maybe Christian is trying to tell everyone that he still considered himself to be a New York Yankee, somehow.

    BTW. The young man at 3:16 is Clayton Kershaw, All-Star pitcher for the Dodgers. The young man at 3:03 is Dodger catcher, AJ Ellis. The context of 3:01 - 3:18 may be a Kershaw fundraiser for an impoverished African village or for disadvantaged African-American youth living in the LA/ SoCal area.

    Nick Koep was Christian's Little League and Pony League coach and mentor (see Acknowledgement section in Cathy's book). Nick has a little boy, Michael, who is Christian's age and played on the same Little League team as Christian.

    One more thing. I don't think Nick Koep was the "baseball coach" who referred Cathy to Carol Bowman (see first post from Carol on page 1 of this thread) based on the following excerpt from the local on-line newspaper, Thousand Oaks Acorn, March 30, 2017:

    "Christian’s PONY League coach, Nick Koep, said he was taken aback when Byrd first told him about Christian’s past-life memories, but he accepted it.

    'I thought it was cool,' Koep said. 'I have an open mind, and I don’t know enough about (reincarnation) to make a judgment on it.' "

    If not Nick, then who?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018 at 10:57 AM
  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    I'm probably going to make too much of the following but please tell me what I'm missing here (from Carol Bowman's first post, this thread, page 1):

    "Cathy Byrd was referred to me [Carol Bowman] by a baseball coach in 2011, when Christian was around 2 1/2, because of his precocious talent at baseball, and because of some remarks he made that had nothing to do with his experience in this life. When she contacted me, she needed some support in trying to figure out what was going on with her son, and wondered if his talents and statements could have anything to do with a past life. We spoke on the phone a couple of times and exchanged emails through 2013. I told Cathy to keep a chronology of Christian's statements, and any other unusual behavior that might relate to the past life Christian was remembering. I was definitely intrigued by the case, because Christian's statements alone indicated that he was remembering another life as a baseball player, and he had the talent to back up his statements. When I lost touch with Cathy, she was trying to piece together who Christian might have been, based on what he said, and was leaning towards Lou Gehrig, because of comments he made about Babe Ruth. She sent me photos of Christian and Lou, and there was a resemblance between the two--both had distinctive dimples on their faces. I thought that was interesting, but not conclusive for an identification." -- Carol Bowman, Dec 18, 2016

    Juxtaposed with the following text from Cathy Byrd's book, The Boy Who Knew Too Much, 2017. From Cathy's timeline, the following events must have taken place in the September - November 2011 time frame.

    p.44 "Carol suggested that we try to figure out who he had been by showing him photos of teams Babe Ruth had played with. She said it was important not to prompt him, and just show him photos and see if he recognized his former self."

    p.47 “Babe Ruth was not nice, Mommy.” . . . I carefully pulled out a black and white photo of the 1927 Yankees team and handed it to Christian without saying a word. Studying it closely, he pointed to Babe Ruth and said, “There’s dumb Babe Ruth.”

    “Do you think there are any players on this team who don’t like Babe Ruth?” I gently asked. Although he had 30 players to choose from, Christian immediately pointed to a stocky guy with big dimples and said with confidence, “Him!” . . . “That’s me.” I pulled out a few more team pictures and asked Christian if he could find any other baseball players who didn’t like Babe Ruth. He pointed to the same stocky guy with dimples in every photo.

    p.49 As expected Christian started the dialogue about Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig before bed the following evening. I seized the opportunity to introduce the photos of Babe and Lou with their arms around each other. Perhaps this would convince Christian that Babe Ruth wasn’t such a bad guy after all. The first photo I showed him was of Lou Gehrig and another man in a Yankees uniform, who I thought was Babe Ruth. Christian studied the photo and said, “That’s not dumb Babe Ruth. That’s the coach.” . . . the man standing beside Lou Gehrig in the photo was former Yankees skipper Joe McCarthy, not Babe Ruth.

    pp.56-57 When all roads seemed to lead to Lou Gehrig, I decided to show Christian a photo of Lou Gehrig’s parents one night before bed. I was curious to see if he would be able to identify their real names among a list of fictitious names that I had made up.

    “Christian, look at the man in this photo. Is his name Joseph?” “No,” he quickly replied. As I rattled off five more incorrect names, he said no every single time. Then it was time to give him the real name. “Is this Heinrich?” I asked. Christian shook his head. “No.” . . . I pointed to the man in the photo again and asked , “Is this Henry?”

    “Yes,” Christian calmly said, as if it was common knowledge.

    Then I tried my little experiment again by asking him to correctly identify Lou Gehrig’s mother. I pointed to the woman in the same photo. “Is this Mary?” I asked. Christian confidently replied, “No.” He then said no three more times in response to fake names I ran by him. And then, “Is this Christina?” “Yes!” . . . Christian looked at the woman’s face and said to me, “Why weren’t you there then, Mommy? I like you better.” This was by far the strangest thing he had ever said until he topped it a few seconds later by pointing at Christina Gehrig’s photo and saying, “Mommy, you were her.” Goosebumps crawled up my arms to the back of my neck, and made my hair stand on end."

    Did somebody forget something? or did somebody forget to tell somebody something, or what exactly is going on here? I'm sure I'm missing something.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  10. IrisG.

    IrisG. Registered

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    GuySittingintheStands, I just want to let you know I am following your anylysis of the Christian Haupt-case with great interest. Initially I planned to independetly investigate the case but I gave up on the idea as too much work would have been involved and I wouldn't ever be able to learn what documents Cathy found in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I don't even live in the USA...
     
  11. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Iris -- Thank you for your words of encouragement. It's good to know there are other like-minded people out there following this story. And it is a fascinating story as I think everyone on this forum would agree. But is it true? Large sections of what Cathy has written in her book ring true -- the down-to-earth sections, anyway. As you can probably tell, I'm playing catch up with the other sections of the book, but I do find the whole reincarnation field fascinating, strange, but fascinating. I am skeptical by nature, so if it seems as though I am coming down too hard on Cathy and/or her story, please know that I consider myself to be still "on board" -- even though, like you and many others, I really would like to get to the bottom of her story.

    Your post has given me some ideas. One line of my family (one of my great-grandfathers, on my mother's side) came from the Catskill area, not that far from Cooperstown, NY, before heading out West. And from what I can tell from googling the National Baseball Hall of Fame, their Giamatti Research Center is open to the public, preferably by appointment. Hmmmmm. Maybe a genealogical trip is in store for me out to that part of the country this summer???
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018 at 6:48 AM
  12. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    I don't know how to break this to everyone, but I suppose I must, regrettably. I, like many of you, thoroughly enjoyed Cathy's book, its development of the principle characters, Cathy and her baseball obsessed toddler, Christian, her unyielding quest for answers to the remarkable statements coming out of her 3 year old's mouth seemingly about a past life as a "tall baseball player", an incredible story that pitted reincarnation against reality, and in the book's version, reincarnation winning and splendidly so, miraculously so. A wink from the Universe, as the book put it.

    Here is an online article from Cathy's local newspaper, Thousand Oaks Acorn, dateline February 16, 2012, several months after Cathy and Christian's trip out to Cape Cod, Massachusetts to film Adam Sandler's "That's My Boy", and before the movie's release later that year (June 15, 2012). Of course little Christian was going to get a big write-up in his local paper back home in California. I think the details revealed in the article are self-explanatory, so I'll leave it at that.

    "Preschooler's love of baseball lands him film role" by Anna Bitong, Thousand Oaks Acorn (online), February 16, 2012:

    https://www.toacorn.com/articles/preschoolers-love-of-baseball-lands-him-film-role/

    Here is the unfortunate quote that brings the whole Christian Haupt story back down to earth:

    "While most boys his age play with trains and watch cartoons, Christian is interested just in his bat, ball and glove and will sit in front of the television only for baseball. Before he was 2, he was already mesmerized by black and white films highlighting the American sport’s iconic moments." [bold-face added for emphasis]

    Autumnleaves (aka SundayDusk), great call. Hopefully we can all learn from your years of experience reading PL-PLR ARCs next time around.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  13. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Oh, my!

    I had not seen this article. Very interesting. Especially the line you excerpted, GuySittingintheStands.

    Also the two that immediately follow it:

    "Bedtime stories are about baseball greats Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth.


    " 'He wants to know all about the old baseball players,' Byrd said."


    How much did she teach him?

    There is so much evidence for cryptomnesia in this case.

    This is also the only publication at all that I've seen with quotes from Christian's father. I notice it also mentions nothing about reincarnation. That solidifies my theory that he wanted nothing to do with the reincarnation aspect, and Cathy going ahead so publicly perhaps did indeed spell the end of their marriage.

    Thanks again, Guy, for going so in-depth on this. I just really hope you aren't using it as a test-case for reincarnation generally. There are many, many much stronger cases, cases that have been investigated with follow-ups over years, witnesses by the dozen, written or recorded records of memories prior to contact with the previous person's family, birthmarks and birth defects that match fatal wounds, accurate recall of scores of facts unknown to anyone near the child, multiple recognitions of people in person or in photos, ability to lead the way to and know his way around previous house on the part of the child, etc. If you want to read cases like that, get into the works of Ian Stevenson and the other researchers who used the same protocols. Anyone who hasn't read these cases doesn't really know and likely can't even imagine what genuinely strong evidence for reincarnation looks like.
     
  14. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    It's funny but as I was reading through Jonathan Eig's 2005 biography of Lou Gehrig, Luckiest Man, The Life and Death of Lou Gehrig, I thought to myself, Why isn't this man's life being taught in our grammar schools, our elementary schools? Here you have a story of every parent's dream child, every teacher's dream student, every baseball manager's dream ball player. Not to mention Gehrig's personal attributes: his incredible work ethic, self-discipline, determination, courage, integrity , humility, squeaky clean image, extraordinary sense of fair play and fairness in general, team player, you name it, Lou had it all. So why isn't Lou Gehrig being taught to our children? There certainly is no shortage of children's books on Lou Gehrig including, Robert Greenberger's 2004 Lou Gehrig, Richard Bak's 1995 Lou Gehrig: An American Classic, with its added bonus of multitudes of large, old, black and white photographs of Lou's life and career and short, individual chapter stories, perfect for bedtime reading. Yes, these and I'm sure several others. There are even amazon video's on the life of Lou Gehrig that you can download to your baseball-obsessed child's laptop.

    In the following excerpt from Cathy Byrd's 2017 book, The Boy Who Knew Too Much, we get a glimpse into one overachieving, marathon-running California mother who picked up on her toddler's very early obsession for America's national past time, and nurtured it, as any parent who loved their child would:

    The context is an interview of Cathy Byrd and her son, 3-year-old Christian Haupt, by a local sports and news stringer, and former star collegiate athlete named Rhiannon:

    p.74 "As I [Cathy Byrd] walked Rhiannon out to her car, she said, 'You remind me of Kathy Bryan, the mother of the Bryan Brothers.' I knew exactly who she was talking about, not only because Kathy's twin sons were the most accomplished doubles team in professional tennis at the time, but also because I was a big fan of Kathy's husband, Wayne Bryan's book, Raising Your Child to Be a Champion in Athletics, Arts, and Academics. I considered Kathy Bryan to be a role model, as a coach and as a parent, because she was an advocate for keeping sports fun for kids while instilling the values of hard work and discipline. Wayne Bryan's advice for parents and coaches was to never force a child to play against their will and to always keep them wanting more." [bold face added for emphasis].

    And this impression of Cathy Byrd is reinforced by the following excerpt from the Feb 16, 2012 Thousand Oaks Acorn [a local online newspaper] "Preschooler's love of baseball lands him a film role" by Anna Bitong:

    "The youngster . . .fell in love with baseball after seeing Thousand Oaks Little League games when he was 1, his parents say.
    He started playing as soon as he could hold a ball in his hand.
    Christian’s German-born dad played tennis in college and was at one time a tennis instructor.
    He’d hoped his son would follow in his footsteps and even bought him a tennis ball machine. But Haupt said he supports Christian’s devotion to baseball.
    'I think it’s great. It’s really important to concentrate on one thing,' Haupt said.'All the great players have always had a passion for the game.'
    While most boys his age play with trains and watch cartoons, Christian is interested just in his bat, ball and glove and will sit in front of the television only for baseball. Before he was 2, he was already mesmerized by black and white films highlighting the American sport’s iconic moments.
    Bedtime stories are about baseball greats Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth.

    'He wants to know all about the old baseball players,' Byrd said." [bold face added for emphasis].

    Of course, it doesn't hurt to have a former MLB left-handed pitcher friend help out with pitching and batting instruction. Again from the same Feb 16, 2012 Thousand Oaks Acorn online newsblog:

    "Family friend and former Major League pitcher Richard Rodriguez, who played for the Angels and Giants, trains with Christian every other week at his All Stars Athletics batting cages in Newbury Park.
    The Camarillo resident helps his pupil develop healthy techniques by demonstrating the proper posture and body positioning.
    'At the pace he’s going, by the age of 10 he’ll have more hours worked up than someone who’s 25,' Rodriguez said .'It’s a joy (to work with him). He’s so young and enthusiastic.'
    His ambitious student may be a prodigy, he added.
    'He’s got the passion, drive, intuition and natural talent.'
    Christian looks forward to joining a T.O. Little League team this year.
    His dad, who did not grow up with baseball, plans to join the league’s board of directors and help coach the team to learn more about his son’s favorite game."

    https://www.toacorn.com/articles/preschoolers-love-of-baseball-lands-him-film-role/

    (By the way, this article was alluded to on p. 68 of Cathy Byrd's book.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 10:30 PM
  15. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    Just a quick language observation. Simple sentence structures like the ones Cathy has Christian saying in the late summer and early fall of 2011 (Aug-Oct, 2011), that is, just before and just after Christian's third birthday (Aug 14, 2011) are not beyond the ability of many just-turned three-year-olds. What is beyond their ability are complex sentence structures, for example, sentences with a subordinate clause introduced by "because". These types of sentences are much more in line with the speaking abilities of 4 1/2 - 5 year-olds. So the statement that Cathy has Christian say on p.45: “We played our games during the day because there were no lights on the field in the olden days.” (Cathy Byrd, The Boy Who Knew Too Much, 2017: 45, circa October 2011) seems contrived -- very contrived -- , especially in light of Cathy's video clip of Christian with Adam Sandler shot just before Christian's third birthday (early Aug, 2011), where we get a glimpse of Christian's speaking ability at the time ("Ee play bor Yinkeez.").

    BTW, to the parents of toddlers making odd statements about past lives, it really would be nice if you could capture some of these moments on your smart phone, especially when these moments are as predictable as Christian's purportedly were (like just before bedtime etc.).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018 at 1:33 PM
  16. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Member

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    A couple more observations.

    On p.41 Cathy writes that "[Michael and I] decided to investigate other ways Christian may have come across the information [that baseball players in the 1920s and 1930s regularly rode on trains to get to away-games]. The only times he had ever been out of our care since being born were on the rare occasions when my mom would babysit , or while he was at preschool. After my mom and Mrs. B assured us that he hadn't learned any baseball trivia under their watch, Michael and I were both convinced that there was no possible way that Christian could be getting this information from outside sources." This episode occured circa October 2011 according to Cathy's notes.

    Of course the assumption is that Cathy herself (or much, much, much less likely Michael because he's from Germany as Cathy keeps reminding us) was not exposing Christian to information about ballplayers from the 1920s and 1930s. I mean, you kind of have to make that assumption, if you are buying into the premise that 3-year-old Christian's odd statements were coming completely out of the blue.

    But then there's that nagging quote in the interview they gave in February 2012 for their local online newspaper, Thousand Oaks Acorn, (see reference in previous posts):

    "While most boys his age play with trains and watch cartoons, Christian is interested just in his bat, ball and glove and will sit in front of the television only for baseball. Before he was 2, he was already mesmerized by black and white films highlighting the American sport’s iconic moments." [bold-face added for emphasis]

    When asked about any exposure to baseball from the Babe Ruth era that Christian may have had prior to making his odd statements about a past life as Lou Gehrig, Cathy easily dispatches the interviewers' softball probes with "We're not a baseball family. My husband was born in Germany." There is really only one interviewer that actually put teeth into this all important question (Eldon Taylor on his Provocative Enlightenment web interview of Cathy on June 20, 2017, available on www. cathy-byrd. com, his question comes at the 16:45 minute mark). Cathy's rambling response is classic dissembling that you might hear from a politician on one of those Sunday morning talk shows.

    (Eldon Taylor interview:
    )

    Not long after Cathy's leave-no-stone-unturned investigation into how Christian might have been exposed to information about baseball and baseball players from the 1920s and 1930s, she decided to seek out an expert in children's past life memories, this forum's owner, Carol Bowman (again circa October 2011):

    "My quest for answers led me to a woman named Carol Bowman, who wrote the book Children's Past Lives: How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child. I came across her name when reading an old ABC News article from 2005 about her work with a young boy names James Leininger." (p.41-42, Cathy Byrd, The Boy Who Knew Too Much).

    She goes on to give a detailed account of similarities between the stories of James Leininger and her son, Christian Haupt. ("They said it was mostly before bed when James was drowsy that he would reveal extraordinary details about his former life. This observation caught my attention because Christian's statements about being a "tall baseball player" had always surfaced just as he was falling asleep or right after he woke up. . . ." (p.42, Cathy Byrd, The Boy Who Knew Too Much). I think we can assume that Cathy Byrd read more than an old online news article about James Leininger before she started writing about Christian's odd statements, that is before her March 2014 news article in a local online newspaper (see reference in previous posts). I think we can assume she was quite familiar with the James Leininger story before she started writing (Bruce and Andrea Leininger, Soul Survivor: The Reincarnation of a World War II Fighter Pilot, 2009). She certainly had read Carol's first book.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018 at 4:23 PM
  17. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Saw this today and wondered where his abilities came from.
     

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