The Elephant in the Room: Wuhan/Corona/Covid 19 Viral Pandemic

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by SeaAndSky, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    944
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    I have heard this virus called various things. Up until recently it was being referred to by reference to its point of origin: Wuhan. This is not unusual in this type of situation, e.g., the Spanish Flu and the Hong Kong Flu. However, I am now informed by more "sensitive" (i.e., politically correct) sources that Wuhan should not be mentioned in reference to Covid 19, so I will defer to their concerns as much as I deem reasonable.

    In any case, that is not the point of this thread. Somehow, this "Elephant in the Room"--i.e., a growing world-wide pandemic--has been ignored over the last couple of weeks on the board. I'm interested in providing a place for people to discuss their concerns and experiences in their particular locales, and etc.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    tanker likes this.
  2. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    We call it just Corona. I am not afraid for myself although there is a chance I will catch the virus, due to the nature of my work and the fact that my resistance is low (already had the flu in January and another type of virus in February).
    My country is not in lockdown but we are asked to take personal responsibility as a collective and yesterday we got some guidelines to follow from our highest officials.
    I have two jobs at the moment and at one job everybody left for home after the announcements of the new guidelines yesterday. Almost everybody can work at home too (it's the headquarters of a political party so they also have to give a good example to the rest of the country, hihi). At my other job, it's more difficult, because in the morning I work in a kitchen and about 800 people depend on their food each day (central kitchen of regional psychiatric institutions, so they can't fix their own meals). Luckily, the hygienic rules are always very strict because we work for vulnerable people.

    There is no real panic here (not yet, anyhow). I try to get enough food in the house for two weeks, just in case my husband and I should be in quarantine for whatever reason (and enough cat food too!). And there is also the delivery services that bring groceries to your home, if necessary. So, that's it. No panic but logical preparations and common sense. The virus is spreading very, very quickly (and already mutating) but young people are not at risk. It's mostly the elderly that are not strong enough to overcome pneumonia without antibiotics (those don't work with a virus). So I am a bit worried about my parents (83 and 86 years old).

    There is one thing important to know and this is that the Coronavirus is not to be compared to a 'normal' flu.
    Don't say things like: people die of the flu too each year. Although this is correct, we are talking about completely different scales. The other day I took my calculator and took the numbers of registered contamination cases and the number of people who died from Corona in northern Italy. It was 5%. That's huge. This means that when you live in a street of 100 people and everybody is contaminated, five of your neighbours will die.
    Another difference is that (at least in my country) all the elderly and other vulnerable people (including people who work in health care) are invited each year to get vaccinated (free of charge) against the most common types of flu. This time there is no vaccine or preparation for nobody.
     
    Sarra, SeaAndSky and tanker like this.
  3. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    746
    Location:
    England
    You're right, fireflydancing, it's nothing like flu and here in England they're saying that 80% of people could get it, and it won't even peak for another 3 months or more. Our government seems to be taking a fairly casual attitude, in that there's no restriction on public events or places so far. I have three factors on the 'at risk' list, and they're talking about up to 10,000 people walking around with it even now and not knowing, so am choosing lockdown already. Some people think I'm silly, but if I get this I could die, so they'll just have to think it. It's a big thing to opt for solitary confinement for months and I don't do it lightly. So far it's ok - I have the phone and the internet, and as you say, online shopping is there. And I have many hobbies so it's total freedom! The jury's out as to how I'll feel about it after a few months, but I see it as the only choice. My ever-present chest problems started, ironically, with flu in 1969. It took me nine months to recover from that. At least there's a vaccine to help with flu, and I'm just hoping to last out until they can find one for Corona. So it's just me and the cat, and a cupboardful of tins!
     
  4. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    746
    Location:
    England
    Thank you, S&S, for providing this place for discussion. It's good to be able to talk about it.
     
  5. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    944
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    I think the worst problem I'm facing at the moment is the lack of tangible information about the disease itself, plus uncertainty about the future. The first has been remedied somewhat, but there are still many things in doubt. However, the future presents a problem, especially with so many things shutting down. For example, I do not know what will happen with my daughter's college and whether I need to hop on the road and take a 15-20 hour round-trip to bring her home. Likewise, whether her prior treatment for leukemia puts her in an at-risk category such that I should bring her home anyway. (We have calls into her doctors on that one, hopefully we will know something by the end of the day). Also, for those of us dependent on an active economy, this means our income streams dry up. The ripple effect of diminishing business is already and will continue to be felt across the board. For me it will quickly come down to the nitty gritty of being unable to pay for necessary services such as electricity and a dozen other monthly bills as well as food and gasoline. Interestingly, my usual knowledge of how to prepare for a temporary/intense event (i.e., a hurricane) is relatively useless as this may drag on for months. That may actually be its most problematic aspect.

    S&S
     
    fireflydancing likes this.
  6. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    746
    Location:
    England
    S&S, I think for all of us the problem is that we're staring into the unknown, and we have little personal control over much of it. I expect your daughter's situation will become clearer for you soon, and you can at least make those decisions. Finance is a problem everywhere, I think, and in a sense it might almost turn out to be a good thing that the world has to become less money-centred for a while. People's values are getting pretty focused here!

    Yes, I think it's going to drag on for months, and probably won't improve until they find a vaccine. But that's way ahead. Personally I'm trying to create a new mindset that ignores the future and just lives day to day. If something good happens in the day, it's a good day, and that's all I have need of. If not, then today's a bad day and I'll try to make tomorrow a better one. Keeping occupied seems to be the best medicine right now. And being able to talk about it here is definitely a good thing.
     
  7. Klaud

    Klaud Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2019
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    305
    Location:
    USA
    I'm not super worried for myself health wise, but I work with a lot of older people who are vulnerable to it, and I certainly don't want to infect them. I can work from home, but only so much. I'd need to give someone else instructions to do part of my job if something happens to me.

    We've already cancelled most of the events for this coming week (which I disagree with because we're in a rural area that's literal hours away from anywhere that has the virus), but my boss is confident we'll be back in business next week. I have some money saved up, but I'm worried about my coming paychecks because I get paid hourly.

    A lot of the bigger cities around me have also cancelled a lot of their events. My mother and I always go birthday shopping at the end of March and I'm afraid everything will be closed :(

    Edit: Just went to the grocery store and it was different. The shelves weren't cleaned out and life is still going on, but the mood in there felt super edgy and tense. People were like making jokes about leaving the country.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
    tanker likes this.
  8. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    875
    Am not worried much for myself, have survived the flu and have no underlying conditions. My kids on the other hand have already been hospitalised this year thanks to a virus that caused respiratory illness a couple of weeks before Corona started spreading to Europe. Have no clue what that illness was but it caused symptoms very similar to Corona and they needed steroids and oxygen. Needless to say have started them on steroids as the schools haven’t shut down yet. What makes me mad is the government not nipping it in the bud. Seems it’s gonna be a case of too little too late.

    I worry for the folks out there and my friends who have underlying conditions... think you are wise to stay in tanker.
     
    tanker likes this.
  9. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    746
    Location:
    England
    Landsend, I'm sorry to hear about your kids, and hope they're well soon. Maybe that's the virus I had last Christmas, and I'm still not over it even now. I agree with you about the government - and missed opportunities are going to be fatal for some, I think. Plus, not long ago we were letting in planeloads of Italians escaping their own lockdown ... and nobody even checked them. How much are all those going to spread? Whatever happened to 'thinking ahead?'
     
  10. Li-la

    Li-la Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2019
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    223
    Hi,

    Thank you Seaandsky for creating this thread.

    Writing this from Sweden, it is spreading here and schools and other public work places are shut down in our neighbor countries, but not here.

    I have learn it is very important to try to limit the spread from the elderly and those with lowered immune system, even pregnant who naturally has this during pregnancy, those with trouble with air ways, one can not only think of one self and laugh it off like I have seen many do, one should not panic either, so I go by washing my hands much and trying to stay out of groups of people.

    What I feel grateful for is that it does not strike children unless a lowered immune system. Imagine if that is what would be happening, then the world would really be in panic.

    Today when I went shopping I had to leave the store, so many people, and most stores, I hear, is lacking toilet paper, pasta, bread.

    I think a good idea for the future is to make up a world plan what to do, if if would be the same rules it would not spread so fast.

    Take good care, everyone.

    Best Wishes

    Li La
     
  11. inhaltslos

    inhaltslos Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    303
    It’s affecting pretty much all aspects of my life. I’m in Washington State, one of the hotspots. All schools closed, empty shelves at the stores, and an international trip we had planned for Monday postponed until...? My spouse is in healthcare and I also work with the public. Just doing what we can daily to face what’s coming next. Seems to change hourly.
     
  12. Eva1942

    Eva1942 A Walking Enigma...

    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    384
    Location:
    Australia
    In Australia, it’s all kinda weird really. People are panic-buying and going crazy, while there little ol’ me working in a grocery store dealing with people’s short tempers. I’m trying to add a little bit more to my shop each week (I live week to week and have a budget) but frankly, I don’t know what else to do now. There’s only so much tinned food you can live off, and you can only freeze food for so long.

    Am I worried? Not really. Because I was working in a grocery store with a high turnover at the height of swine flu, so what makes Corona any different? But then when I went to my guides and admitted to them that I was afraid because I don’t know what to do with my limited resources, they gave me the same advice they give me all the time. “Love the fear. It’s okay to be afraid..the world is changing..”

    Maybe I might have to give online shopping a try, and stock up on some true essentials like boxed spring water etc..

    Eva x

    Ps. I forgot to add that Australia is not in lockdown yet..
     
  13. There and back again

    There and back again Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    278
    The real elephant in the room is that this has been in the news for months and people were blissfully unaware until a week or two ago then went on to panic (r.i.p anyone needing toilet paper) while some continue on acting as it were no big deal at all or some dumb conspiracy. Tried telling people that this was on the way back in January and February only to encounter the usual positivity or optimism bias that essentially amounts to any action other than inaction is overreaction only to panic at the last second which is what people have been doing for the past week. On a personal level I will likely be ok and even if I did kick the bucket I wouldn't mind too much but I do mind potentially losing family members to this due to both old age and ill health. As for China they are not out of the woods not by a long shot and the CCP is setting the people up for another round of losses by saving face and pretending the outbreak is over.
     
    Ophelia3 and Li-la like this.
  14. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    203
    This is one of those things that what will be will be...We can take precautions for ourselves... my daughters live all over the place and are big and old enough to make there own decisions on how to approach it
    So I won't bother anyway there standard reply would be "don't tell me what to do dad"....I fully understand S&S's problems Before I retired I had a picture framing shop very reliant on the incomes of the community.. During recessions and downturns I could go for weeks on end with very little business coming through the door...… with these situations there was always the writing on the wall about what was going to happen so that gave me weeks to prepare and "batten down the hatches" and prepare.. With this situation it was just "wham " out of the blue things are dramatically effected
    As a result people like S&S's on going business expenses will remain the same for three months or so let alone his on going living expenses with most likely a downturn in business income
    They way I got through these situations I always kept in reserve highly sort after sporting memorabilia that I had purchased at wholesale prices during the good times and sold what I needed to … to get through the bad times... This taught me one thing... the people with money will continue to spend on things they want and that will not change this time … so maybe there are some things S&S has he can sell off if things get tight.. there is no other way around it I can see... I have sold everything up and moved into a retirement village... the best thing I have ever done... gated community... community rooms to mix with the other residents.. living expenses halved .. no lawns or gardens to look after and on and on.. life is good.. and you feel protected from these sorts of things..
     
    SeaAndSky and fireflydancing like this.
  15. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    944
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi John,

    I can tell you understand my situation exactly. This is going to be a tough month. I wish I had a valued collection to sell, but nothing comes to mind. If vintage vinyl is worth anything I still have some albums from the 60s and 70s, but I doubt that will go far. Unfortunately, raising and educating 5 kids plus the extras has pretty well used up every penny (though I wouldn't take any of it back ;)). So, no long-term investment in stocks or goodies around here to put on the market. Sigh . . . Somehow, the Lord has always gotten us through, and there have been some tough times in the past as well. So, I'm keepin' the Faith! I just hope He doesn't keep me hangin' too long. o_O

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    John Tat and fireflydancing like this.
  16. Sarra

    Sarra Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Ohio
    @SeaAndSky I know you stated this was not the point of your post but I wanted to share that although Wuhan, China is the origin of the virus and you personally do not link it to being “caused by” Chinese people plenty of narrow minded people do. This is why some people don’t want to call it Wuhan virus. Chinese people and people of Chinese descent living well outside of China are being harassed over this virus by total strangers. I’m not talking about the cases being reported on the news and repeated over and over...I’ve been hearing personal experiences from people I follow on Instagram for over a month now of either being harassed or of overhearing racist jokes being made about it.


    My thoughts exactly.
    Also, my mother was in the hospital in December and they had boxes of face masks at every entrance. (This has never been a thing at this hospital.) She told me the nurses told her to be sure to tell everyone that might visit to wear a mask because “the flu is really bad this year”. This was just before the news broke and now I wonder how long authorities in America were aware of Covid 19 and tried to suppress the info before they were forced to tell people.
     
    fireflydancing and tanker like this.
  17. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    944
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi Sarra,

    I really didn't mind just calling it Corona or Covid 19, at least I didn't until recently. However, now Xi is trying to deflect adverse attention due to the lying incompetence of the Chinese leadership in failing to immediately disclose and treat the outbreak to the U.S., with his proxies trying to claim that it originated here and/or we planted it there.

    This is not only totally absurd, it is a typical ploy for totalitarian regimes, and China is sadly rushing back in that direction at full speed under Xi. The same type of lying is also happening in Iran. The problem with being a totalitarian leader--whether you're Chairman of the Communist Party or Ayatollah--is that having all power you then have all responsibility, at least within the borders. You wanted it and you got it, at least in the eyes of your countrymen. So, when they screw up, it is typical in such regimes to lie and try to claim that "foreign enemies" caused their problems (either directly or by hidden and traitorous henchmen inside the country). You saw this same kind of thing with Iran when they shot down a passenger jet recently.

    Anyhow, the upshot of all of the foregoing is that I will be calling the virus the Wuhan virus as long as the Chinese government is trying to slander the U.S. and deflect responsibility in the matter. Heaven knows, we screw up enough without having to shoulder the burden of another country's foul ups! They are the ones that should be apologizing to the world instead of trying to dodge blame and pass it off on someone else. When they do, I will go back to calling it Covid 19.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Ophelia3 and Sarra like this.
  18. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    427
    Hi,

    needed thread on what is going on today...Good thinking, SeaAndSky ! :) My heart goes out to everyone on this thread that has a loved one that is of their most concern during these times or themselves.

    My thoughts is that this will spread most intense for a couple of months more, meanwhile hopefully they can find a vaccine and, or treat those in need. My husband who often get trouble with his lungs, pneumonia when he has a cold I have concern for, even though he doesn't
    ( kind of ironic when I think of it having the suspicion that he was my Papa in my past life from the 1920's. He had trouble with his voice, throat, I suspect the lungs, but still smoked in the morning before going off to work... ).

    I have those close to me that are suspicious of the disease and have tested, have to wait for answers.

    It is confusing as it is happening around the same period of the normal flu and other cold, coughing periods.

    I try to think that most of the population get mild symptoms and some even no symptoms at all and yet carry it.

    I too wash my hands much and try to not move around to places etc unless called for.

    We have canceled seeing our elder generations. If they need help with shopping etc of course we will help.

    /Jaimie
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
    tanker likes this.
  19. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    455
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Any vaccine is likely to be at least a year or more away.

    Right now in the UK (and almost certainly in several other countries too), there is already a possible vaccine which has been developed. Whether it is suitable or not, well the next stage is to test it on animals which said to be under way. This process of testing, maybe going back to the drawing board, try again, more testing could take months. Assuming things go well, in a few months time there might be a candidate for the vaccine. Then it has to be mass-produced, this in itself could take a long time.

    By the time something is developed, tested, mass-produced and distributed for use, we would likely be well into next year or beyond.

    At least that is the picture as I understand things at present.
     
    Grel and tanker like this.
  20. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    455
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    On the subject of a possible vaccine, I found an article in the Daily Express. I really distrust this newspaper, I've seen a tendency to mix real information with speculation and indeed stuff that appears to be made up.

    Nevertheless, Professor Robin Shattock and Dr Paul McKay are named as working on research in this area.

    UK coronavirus EXCLUSIVE: British scientists close to finding vaccine

     

Share This Page