"This is my last incarnation"

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Deborah, Feb 19, 2006.

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"This is my last incarnation"

  1. This is my last incarnation

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. I will be reincarnating in the future

    7 vote(s)
    58.3%
  3. I don't believe in "last incarnations"

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. I do believe in "last incarnations"

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I am curious what members think about this statement. "This is my last incarnation. " It is something that comes up on the forum, in New Age books and I have heard regressionists say they come across it often.

    I have started a poll for those that just want to vote - but I am also interested in your perspective regarding this. If you believe it is your last life -WHY? What makes you think so. If you do not believe the premise - WHY? ...and do you believe there is a "last time?" : angel

    You may vote for more than one option. ;)
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Senior Registered

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    I honestly don't know if there is such thing as a "last time", because my instincts tell me that we keep going on and on.....

    I believe in a next life for me because I have dreams of it. :)
     
  3. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    Deborah,

    I have been told that, after this life, I will have two, maybe three more lives, depending on how successful I am in this life.

    You asked,

    "If you do not believe the premise - WHY?"

    --> (I assume you are including the premise that we have final lives, but this is not that life for me, which seems to be a third answer to your question.) I believe that, in order to reach (and complete) the final incarnation, three things are required: a minimum level of spirituality. a record of service to humanity, and the extinguishing of all bad karma. I am working hard at all three!

    " ...and do you believe there is a "last time?"

    --> Absolutely! I am looking forward to my next existence as a non-incarnating Guardian Angel. It cannot come soon enough!
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Senior Registered

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    Buntaro, what you say makes sense to me, I do want to ask a follow up question to what you have to say:

    How do you know when the balance is complete? What form of validation do you receive to know that you are almost there? Do you think that people have to do so many lives as a humanitarian to get to the end?

    Thanks for bringing up your thoughts, I think you will fuel a great discussion in this thread. :thumbsup: Now I am curious to hear more about your perspective.

    I hope others will bring up what they think, I am curious to know what others think too. :D
     
  5. JustinR

    JustinR Senior Registered

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    Will this be my last incarnation? LOL! I'm no where near the end at all. I feel I have soooo much to learn. More than I can figure out that I've got many, many more physical lives ahead of me. My instincts want this. I do want to have a lot more incarnations. I don't wanna settle on a number as, I'm afraid it's too limiting and, I'm afraid I might have to stick to that chosen number. Whether I'll be reincarnating forever more. Something tells it may not work quite that way.

    Do we have a last incarnation? I'm not so sure about this. What makes me unsure is the possibility of living lives on other planets with human, or human like live. The planets of live must be limitless as the number of universes teaming with life. Thinking this way makes me unsure about having such a thing as a last incarnation. I'd probably say we could purposefully choose not to have any more incarnations but, not sure how that would work, in other timeless relms.

    I don't know about this question, I'm unsure. I'd say, for those who conciously set their minds on going to nirvana or, becaming a guardian angel may likely do so. Hence, they will receive their last incarnation.

    However, I just want to go on learning and learning. I've got so much to learn, to free myself from. By nature, I like to take one step at a time. Hence, that's why I want to do it slowly.
     
  6. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    Aaron,

    You asked,

    "How do you know when the balance is complete?"

    --> First, I need to say my information was originally received from a good psychic. So, in the beginning, it was more a case of what I had heard than what I had "figured out". In the intervening years, however, I have aggressively questioned every possible flaw to such an idea. As I can find none, I have happily allowed it to remain in my belief system. It works for me!

    "What form of validation do you receive to know that you are almost there?"

    --> The best way to describe it is this: as I get closer, I see myself having more of the thoughts and behavior that seem (to me) absolutely necessary to survive at the next level. To me, people absolutely must have the three things I mentioned, or existence at the next level is impossible. So, as far as this is concerned (to me), it makes perfect sense, and so I happily allow it into my belief system.

    I would also like to post a source of these ideas in an online e-book. This idea of "providing evidence and nominations" makes more sense to me than anything else I have found. The book sites an example of someone ready to take an Initiation, and I find it a fascinating read:

    The Masters And The Path By C. W. Leadbeater
    paragraphs 620 - 624 in the webpage
    http://www.anandgholap.net/Masters_And_Path-CWL.htm

    It is said there that a person must show evidence they have enough service to humanity in order to move up to the next level. This makes sense to me.

    (I would like to throw in a small caveat. What conditions do people think they will encounter at the next level? Will they just float around the Universe, watching stars come and go? I think not. To me, I see us spending every conscious moment going around doing nice things for one another. To me, this is the only logical behavior to be expected at the next level. Today's average human, with their average selfishness, need not apply. Compare today's average human with someone obviously ready for the next level such as Mother Theresa. End of digression.)

    "Do you think that people have to do so many lives as a humanitarian to get to the end?"

    --> To me, it is not so much of quantity as quality. (As a matter of fact, the above-cited example deals with someone who did it in an unusually short amount of time.) Once a minimum level of humanitarianism is achieved, we will get to the end. A small number of lifetimes would be possible, although, as I look around me, I see most people going at it at a normal pace, not an accelerated pace at all.

    "Thanks for bringing up your thoughts, I think you will fuel a great discussion in this thread. Now I am curious to hear more about your perspective.

    --> There you have it. Now, can we hear your perspective?

    Do you see it as ending or continuing forever? What possible conditions do you see as terminating conditions?

    "I hope others will bring up what they think, I am curious to know what others think too."

    --> Most certainly! The more we can discuss and get different ideas from each other as to what is actually going on, the better. This is not a time for us to get preachy. This is a time to openly discuss new ideas.
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Senior Registered

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    Buntaro!

    Thanks for the well put reply. I believe we go on forever.......I guess I don't see an end...it's just something I don't sense....I feel that we will keep going and going, and progress and change and go through cycles as we do so.

    I haven't come to believe with validations with other people, like for you, your friend, and C. W. Leadbeater, right now, I am at this point where I can't sense an end.

    But that doesn't mean that there isn't one for sure! I don't feel I am close to being done. Perhaps all of our ends are at different times?

    BTW I don't see your thoughts as preachy either, I enjoy hearing about what you experience in regards to an end of your reincarnating. Thanks for elaborating.

    Justin, thanks for sharing. I feel I have so much more to do too, and so much more to learn. I have a desire to stay and to keep on going.

    Perhaps our intents and desire creates our outcomes? I don't see nothing wrong with wanting to stop and become something else, a guardian angel, light being, whatever it might be.......actually it's rather fascinating if you ask me. :D
     
  8. JustinR

    JustinR Senior Registered

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    Well, i think it boils down to this point. For those who do wan to stop. I feel they are probably ready to stop. They have acheived, or nearly acheived all that they need to and work towards the end. I think Buntaro (sp) is probably at that stage. I wonder about a friend of mine called David. He seems to be a bit of an old soul to me. A light being if you will. I wonder whether he's come near to the end of reincarnation. Just something I sense. I could be wrong of course.

    All each of us can do is listen to our instincts on this and, follow them.

    My instincts tell me that I'm no where close to ending my physical visitations as, I feel this need, urge, excitement even to come back time and time again to experience more. Funny thing is, I might have had tons of lives behind me before this one. However, in this life, as Justin, it just doesn't feel as though it's enough. By nature, I'm always after the next best thing. Hankering after the future, looking for something better than what I've got. One of the lessons I might have to learn is to appriciate what's in front of me in the here and now. It's tough work for someone who's so curious and thrives on looking forward, waiting for something better in the wings. That's how I am and, by this, I reckon my work here won't be done for, lets say eons, lol.

    I just feel the need to come back, back to earth, back to any planet of human life and society. I'm too fascinated with physical life and what we have to learn during visits to the physical universe.

    Who knows where it all ends, if at all even. Maybe that's part of the excitement of our soul's journey, wondering where we'll find ourselves at each tern.

    Those of us here not ready, or no where near ready to stop are making a beginning, by being here. That's just my thoughts. :)
     
  9. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    Aaron,

    You said,

    "I believe we go on forever.......I guess I don't see an end...it's just something I don't sense...."

    --> If it works for you, I am happy that you have it in your belief system.

    "I haven't come to believe with validations with other people...."

    --> In a way, I agree with you. Everything I believe has to make sense to me. I can see that you have the same need for yourself. That is a good thing.

    "Perhaps all of our ends are at different times?"

    --> It has been said that the time scheduled for humans on the Earth is about half over. When I look around, I would say that most people are about half-way there. So everything seems to be on schedule. Now, certainly, some people can and do make progress faster and slower, so, yes, I would agree that different people move up at different times.
     
  10. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Interesting reflections. Thank You.

    I have a few more thoughts that may add to the discussion. When we become physical it may take us numerous lifetimes, maybe millions, to progress; what IF the progression was to move back to the source. What if learning and breaking the wheel of karma was actually a return...to our original state.

    The discussion here seems to be a forward movement. Just thinking out loud.
     
  11. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    Deborah,

    Oh, I completely agree that it is a return. We are in the midst of Evolution. The first part of the cycle, the moving away, has been called Involution. It makes perfect sense to me.

    Forward? Perhaps merely part of a cycle? Although it seems to me to be an upward movement. Involution was a downward movement, the Fall, although NOTHING like what the Christians have portrated it to be (at least in my belief system). Is that how you see it?
     
  12. Athlynne

    Athlynne Senior Registered

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    I said that this will be my last incarnation, as I always do, out of hope. Though my instinct tells me I probably say this every time I'm back on Earth. :)
     
  13. shield

    shield Registered User

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    I think describing the direction of the movement as a return, is a real important distinction. And, I´d venture adding, a return to... where we´ve never actually left.:D
     
  14. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    HI Buntaro and Shield,

    I have been thinking about your statement about (evolution) for a while before responding.
    .

    I think we tend to think linearly when trying to describe our experiences. The fact that you mentioned an upward and downward movement opens another avenue of exploration. I cannot help but associate your description to experience.

    Directions are important to our understanding of Time and Space so your post reminds me of the following experience.

    In a very lucid dream six years ago I met an American Indian Man... He told me I was to understand the symbolism of THREE, that MAN was at the CENTER and I was to be aware of what was to his left and to his right. The dualistic elements in life.

    Later an Egyptian man came to me; I was again told to understand the symbolism of THREE, that man was in the center and to be aware of what was above and what was below. He said by extension I was to understand SEVEN, and that seven was symbolic to the body.

    In a deep sleep......I am standing in a deep space void turning around slowing in all directions..I hear a voice..you must understand "before" and "after" -- the concept of TIME.

    Then I am shown colors - Red, then Blue but then Violet...I understand the concept of THREE, that to make violet you need Red and Blue. I see a relationship -- to understand up you need down, to understand left you need right, to be aware you need what is in the CENTER :)

    I see seven directions. Above, below, right and left, center, and linear time being before and after.

    So to answer your question Buntaro - this is how I see "directions" and how I came to understand them spiritually.

    Here’s what Jung has to say.... “The appearance of the “three” followed by the “seven,” either in symbolic or numeric terms, suggested a seven stage transformation which begins with the Christian concept of the threefold nature of the one God and culminates in the solificatio. In the language of initiation, ‘seven’ stands for the highest stage of illumination [the solificatio in alchemical terms] and would therefore be the coveted goal of all desire…"

    So to me -it would be becoming aware of G-D and SELF at once; it might even signify what is termed a "last time." But to me it is more about enfolding into the ALL - the SOURCE - the totality of all that I am - in the NOW. That doesn't mean I won't be back. ;) I most certainly will.
     
  15. mejensen1

    mejensen1 Probationary

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    last life

    Sylvia Brown says she is in her last life, and seems to "award" that to others also. Well, some spirit guides haven't incarnated for awhile, but they have a job, ie guides, so maybe that is what happens with no future rebirths.

    Anyway, I think she was Theodora; who "threw out" reincarnation out of Christianity, along with Justinian (John Holland). They were opposed to Origen (Gordon Smith). Who doesn't believe in Karma? :confused:

    I attended a "workshop" with Sylvia and John Holland and it was kinda fun. She has an imposing presence, and if you view her schedule, you would notice what an incredibly big draw she is in terms of public support and influence.
     
  16. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I prefer Charles Richards Ph.D and his point of view:

    Which leaves an open door - SB speaks in absolutes, which personally - I have a problem with. :( My 2 cents.
     
  17. petercalvert

    petercalvert Senior Registered

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    Last life?

    Hi Deborah & all,
    I have wondered at times "how many lives does it take to get to the last one?" I have read of Hindu guru's statements of "millions and millions of lives" and thought that may be a synonym for "too many to count." Or that the total may include all those in prehuman states?

    The only directly acquired information related to the question was received during my last 9-day meditation retreat, just before Christmas 2005, on that occasion led by an American who trained for 16 years in some of Ajahn Chah's Thai forest Buddhist monasteries.

    On the sixth day, having had time to settle into the process and so become calm and clear, I thought to ask the question how many lives did it take Gautama to become Buddha ie., enlightened, and thereby make it his last life (presumably?). The answer came immediately as 513, with the accompanying information that the number was so few because he was an unusually good student.

    My next (mentally expressed, of course) question was "how many previous lives had Ajahn Chandiko (the meditation course leader) had. Again without hesitation the answer came, 432 lives.

    So of course I had to ask about myself! In exactly the same dispassionate way as before, the answer came - 364.

    So I certainly do not have any basis to think this is my last life, as I may only be halfway there, as the implication I take from the first answer is that the norm is perhaps greater than 500 lives, or 600, or a thousand? Who knows? And I guess it does not matter. If the issues that keep arising in my current life mean anything at all, I will be back many times yet ;-)

    Regards, and thanks for your management of this site!!

    Peter
     
  18. buntaro

    buntaro Senior Registered

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    I am reminded by Peter's post of the idea that more incarnations is not necessarily a good thing. A person who has a high number of incarnations may be making slow progress:

    "Q: Do some people make faster spiritual progress while they are alive than others?

    "A: Yes.

    "Q: Does it mean they need fewer incarnations?

    "A: In some cases, yes. One time a group of my students were bragging about how many incarnations they had had. They assumed that more incarnations meant more spirituality. One said he had had 147 incarnations. Another said 3,000. My answer was, "Slow learner, huh?"

    https://www.keen.com/landing/psychi...200357010133&gclid=CM_0x_Cx19QCFVW2wAodfQwNbw
     
  19. shield

    shield Registered User

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    Deborah, thanks for sharing your dreams. It was enlightening reading. I like the ´Thy will be done´ reference in this context, too!

    Along these lines (I think...) I was thinking:

    Well, maybe that´s it, as long as we do think linearly, attached to a linear mindset, we are left to tow the line of bodily identification ...?

    Then it wouldn´t necessarily be the doing of good things, bettering our karma, that´s helpful towards liberation but... the undoing of a certain mindset.

    I.e. maybe it´s actually the the presupposed notion as such of evolving to somewhere else as the way to eventual liberation, that keeps us revolving over and over... inside a conceptual wheel of time and space?
     
  20. dakini

    dakini New Member

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    :D I think this is possibly my second last incarnation... I think I'll probably be male in the next one and then merge with infinity and nothingness. : angel
     

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