Through a glass darkly

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jim78, Feb 6, 2019.

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Are you a warrior soul or were you involved in war by circumstance?

  1. Warrior soul

    8 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. Circumstance

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    There is a recent incident that I think exemplifies the conflict impulse that can lead to atrocities in war time:



    I don't think the issue here is race. Had Neesons friend been raped by a red haired man or a man in glasses or whatever its apparent that the impulse would have been the same.

    I think the issue is tribalistic violence. In the heat of battle it becomes about 'them and us'. The battle lines are drawn. In Neesons case it happened in peacetime but that impulse is known to anyone who has been involved in atrocity in wartime.

    Yet war can justify anything. Neeson is being drawn over the coals for a reaction that people justify in wartime. Even small things dehumanise the enemy such as the disparaging words one uses to describe them.

    Its because of this impulse, the one Neeson acknowledges he struggled with for a period after his friends rape, that atrocities like Ballyseedy occur.

    I though it was worth pointing out because it shows that all of us, whether involved in conflict or not, has the capacity to do evil. Its what we all struggle with.
     
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  2. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    Thanks for posting that Jim.

    Yes, dehumanisation is essential in war. In Vietnam, it was 'dinks' and 'gooks' or 'slopes'. It was actually called the 'Mere Gook Rule' during Nam. Meaning, doesn't matter if we've killed an innocent, we'll get off the hook, after all, it's just a gook.

    Watched a documentary recently where General Westmoreland (Commander of U.S forces 1964-68) said, very blatantly, that 'they' (meaning South East Asians), didn't value life/death the way we did, so it did not matter them so much if folks died. A great way to convince oneself if anything.

    Here's the clip:

    That whole scene is very uncomfortable watching.

    Actually this whole subject touches on a raw nerve. I did commit evil in Nam. I'll admit it, it happened. And I'm still paying the price.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  3. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Awful. And disgraceful. What have we become?
     
  4. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    Well, to give Gen. Westmoreland some credit he was v. honest and of a different generation. He didn’t mince his words or actions, something you wouldn’t see these days.

    I do understand where he is coming from, even though I wouldn’t word it the way he did now. In SE Asia there are different philosophies on life and death — I wouldn’t go as far to say they don’t value life as much as us — differently, yes, but not less. Quality of life is maybe put above quantity. I recently read about an Hmong man whose baby was born premature and severely disabled — his view was the baby was no good, it needed to be thrown away. Of course in our society this would be seen as cruel and callous as life is preserved even without quality of life into account. Different cultures, different views.
     
  5. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi landsend. I called this topic 'In a glass darkly' because it was about discussing those dark impulses we have in wartime. This topic was supposed to be about reflecting those dark impulses back on ourselves.

    The men of Ballyseedy were strapped to a mine and blown up because they were considered traitors of the Irish peopleby one faction, they were reprisal killings for what was done to pro treaty Free Staters.

    Indeed my own past self was shot dead as being a traitor to the Republican cause. Wars, particularly civil wars, are brutal.

    Its not about what we have become tanker, its about what we've always been. I don't know what the common German soldier called the allies during WW2 but to the allies you yourself were 'just a jerry'. Think about the brutality that could have been done to you and justified because of that thinking.

    We have to acknowledge the thinking that results in brutality in wartime if we are ever going to overcome it.

    All sides do it. As I said, war is a long, dark path. We can't simply say its disgraceful and pretend its a new occurrence. Its being going on since rival hunter gathers used their hunting skills to hunt men.
     
  6. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    To clarify, I don't recall mentioning a timescale for 'what have we become?' I have done plenty of thinking, thank you.
     
  7. CanSol

    CanSol Senior Registered

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    Dehumanization starts as soon as you enter basic, you're completely stripped from your personal identity, made to do what is not considered the social norm and it's here where you spot the warrior souls with ease because where some need to be completely dehumanized, stripped from their civilian persona others show skills not thought before and need to be harnessed or even tamed because their inner warrior comes out and a lot, possibly younger souls, haven't learned to control their instincts yet

    What I've learned, humans are capable of anything, I myself am capable of anything and can actually take a life with a clear conscience, many can't
    That's why in training I'm often the losing party because if I loosen the restraints and they get too lose disaster can strike, something my instructors had to find out the hard way "we can take it" no, you couldn't
     
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  8. glia21

    glia21 Senior Registered

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    Defending yourself by killing the attackers is questionable to me.
    In reality I might be the first one that shoots but I still do not feel it is the right choice. I only want to make a point that killing is killing is killing.. it doesn't become something else just because you do your duty or follow orders. Sorry I just felt like I have got to throw this into the discussion, a little motivated by Kubricks Dr Strangelove - a film I hadn't seen for a while and was watching last week.
    The glorifying of war that happens now and then plus the justification makes me angry sometimes, especially when thinking about the ptsd symptoms and depressive moods guys carry along. Warrior souls should be capable of using their abilities elsewhere.
     
  9. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    I get what you are saying Glia -- but what about reasonable defence? Imagine someone breaks into your home, and you discover them -- they have a weapon and intend to use it on you. Your reaction might be more instinctive than you think. Actually something like this happened to me a couple of days ago. I was in my kitchen the other day with my family, and we heard a tremendous crashing sound/people talking upstairs. My husband opened our kitchen door (adjoined to the garage) and found our garage roof had caved in -- someone had been running across it. My instinct was -- holy crap, someone has burgled my neighbours. So without thinking I ran into my garden (without even a weapon, my husband threw me a wood plank), and found that my fence to my neighbours had been smashed and was lying on its side. I ran over to my neighbours garden to see if they were in -- they were, thank God. Turns out that the thieves had robbed and smashed an house to pieces further up and used our house as an escape route not realising our garage roof is fragile and made of asbestos. But let me tell you -- I was ready to whack them one if I had to. I wasn't even thinking. The need to defend oneself is entirely instinctive.
     
  10. CanSol

    CanSol Senior Registered

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    Warrior souls do end up in other places like sports and law enforcement
    A cop would kill someone who intents to kill the cop first, Soldiers are no different, kill or be kiled

    And warriors are capable of using their abilities elsewhere like I stated but what's the purpose of a warrior soul if not to fight war? It's in the name
    I'm a warrior, always was, always will be and have no problems taking a life before that person can take mine

    Whether some wars are justified or not isn't my concern, I can and have written about the cause/effect of why certain wars happened, where justified or not justified
    I'm a Soldier or Marine (depending on which life), I fight, that's what I do
    I don't seek justification from outsiders or want to be seen as a hero (many see especially WWI and II military as heros) I'm not, I did and do the only thing that I know how to do and after several centuries I'm good at
     
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  11. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    If anyone can get a hold of this -- it's The Vietnam War Docu (Ken Burns/Lynn Novick) Ep 5. -- This Is What We Do.

    The whole episode summarised a lot of my thoughts.
     
  12. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi CanSol.

    I don't remember my past life training period but I do know that I didn't need basic training in my current life to dehumanise me against people.

    All I needed was to know that they were doing evil, abusing their power and opposing me. Under those circumstances I was like a cat playing with a mouse.

    I had zero conscience about it. I was even proud of having fought them.

    Unfortunately my conscience has caught up with me though.

    I know what you mean landsend. I remember once sleeping in the back of a truck up on the French border and someone tried to break into it. I immediately kicked the door open and chased them into the forest. My boss didn't know if I was being brave or stupid. Neither do I really. Either way the little bolox got away.
     
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  13. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    I really need to move house — if the SHTF round here folks are gonna be looting food, not gold. Feel very bad for my neighbour they haven’t slept in their house since their place was ransacked. Where my garage roof caved in is where I keep the washer / drier - I had been thinking just moments before to get some clothes out the drier so guess I’m lucky? I might be already back in the reincarnation line right now. The roof fell in big shards.
     
  14. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Do you believe in exit points landsend? Points where you may have a route out of your current incarnation ( death )? Its possible you just avoided one.

    I've also been reading your medication topic. Keep the chin up.

    I remember going to my local doctor and telling him that I was depressed. He said "See all those wall hangings? That means I can kill you and you won't feel a thing! It'll be just like going to sleep!"

    I left his office in stitches laughing. Good tonic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  15. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    Guess so — seems I’m not finished with business in this life yet. I think when it’s your time to go, it’s your time. If not then fate intervenes. For instance, on that night my partner got back from work late and we finished up eating when usually would’ve been collecting clothes from the drier. Sobering thought either way. It ain’t over till it’s over as they say.

    Actually I’m curious to see how this life pans out, as difficult as it sometimes feels to live in this body/circumstances.
     
  16. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I've read that we plan to have about five exit-points in our lives, points where it would create the least upheaval in contracts we have made with others. It's kind of interesting to be on this end of my life to speculate upon those points I've past. I agree with your comment about being curious about how it plays out.
     
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  17. landsend

    landsend Senior Registered

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    A couple of my exits are from childhood — nearly run over outside my house, and nearly drown when I fell in the pond in my garden whilst catching frogs. It’s an interesting theory about exit points, though. Is there really only five? Think I’ve already run out of lives.
     
  18. AlexD

    AlexD aka Shadow

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    [​IMG]
    Here, take this! :D
     
  19. Kalos

    Kalos Senior Registered

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    Been away from this forum for a while so I just saw this thread. To Jim's original questions:

    My family farmhouse was too confining for me since I was 16 or so. Went to university to become a lawyer, all expenses paid by my uncle (famous lawyer himself) - dropped out a year later to seek my fortune westwards. Travelled 2000 miles on horseback with a rifle and not much else, hunting to keep myself fed. Got a job as a hired gun to keep wagon trains carrying supplies safe, still not satisfied. Left and joined a military expedition as a civilian, hunting buffalos to keep the soldiers fed. Among the army but still not part of it, still not satisfied. When the civil war broke out rode another 2000 miles back to enlist as a volunteer. Fought, fought some more and then some. More than I would ever hope. Earned my star. Died in a wheat field at the age of 26.

    I despise war. Still, seems like I was always actively seeking to participate in one.

    I'm quite sure I got back to business again and again and then some, every chance I got with every reincarnation. Probably even before that PL I wrote about above. I keep having glimpses of these other PLs and they're getting more and more frequent but I can't handle even the one I remember so well, in the civil war, so I don't want to remember any more.

    I despise war. I keep telling my daughters war is the worst of all evils.

    Have I learned any lessons? Yes, life is very precious to just throw it away in a war. Looking back at that PL, would I change it all and choose to become a happy farmer, have lots of kids and die peacefully at the age of 80 if I had the chance now? No, no way. Sadly no. So I just don't know. Warrior soul - I don't really want to believe in warrior souls - as opposed to what then, poet souls? Gardener souls? Sounds silly. Still, there is something seriously wrong with someone who gets back time after time just in the right place and time to fight in a war, certainly not by coincidence. I really don't know.

    I despise war. I fear I keep telling that so others don't go down the same road I did.
     
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  20. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Hi Kalos.

    I resented war. I resented that others made it necessary to fight. My way of dealing with that was to let my resentment fuel me to proceed in war, with the goal to end it ruthlessly through whatever means necessary.

    This gave me a freedom. Once someone is outside the bounds of 'normal' morality one can do anything, they can enjoy their brutality, revel in it. Destroying other men became a game, a game I planned to win. To the outside that's called 'courage under fire' but was it courage? I was simply expressing my base impulses through my intellect. I was justifying everything. Is there really any difference between dying on a battlefield or dying an old man in your bed? We still die.

    The mark of a man is what he does with his life. Dying an eighty year old farmer is a much less destructive life than dying on the battlefield IMO. The farmer made better choices.

    Before I remembered reincarnation I thought conflict was a one shot deal. I thought it was a unique thing Jim was doing. Upon remembering reincarnation I realised that war hadn't found me and I'd rose to the occasion, I had found war, again and again.

    If someone needs to reincarnate into times of conflict again and again I agree with you...there's something wrong there.
     
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