Tomo - Japanese / scottish case of 2000

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by SleeplessFox, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Tomo claimed that the name of the hospital or place where he died was "Muginba Paresu".

    According to google translate:

    "mugen" means 'dream, fantasy; infinite' in Japanese.
    "ba" means 'place; sphere, realm' in Japanese.
    "paresu" means 'palace' in Japanese.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  2. Sheeply

    Sheeply Senior Member

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    I’m a student of the Japanese language and I made an account so I could comment.

    As the others already said, if the mother didn’t have a good grasp on English then what she wrote down is only an approximate, and it doesn’t help that this little kid would have said what he said in a Japanese accent.

    Assuming he said Muginba Paresu as the hospital he was staying in, and assuming that would have been in Scotland, then we can take a guess that he was trying to say something in English.

    What I wanted to say was, if it was “muginba” written down in kana (their non character alphabet) then it would actually be pronounced “mu-gim-ba” because n changes to an m sound when before a b in Japanese. Of course him being a child the m or ba sound could have been like a toddler mumble so maybe it was just “mu-gim” or “mu-gi-b”. It’s hard to tell.

    And Paresu would be pa-re-su. Like what someone said before three could mean parish but, I’d like to point out the Japanese r sounds a bit like a d, l and r mixed together AND the “u” sound on the end of su is often not said in Japanese. (Despite what anime might have you believe). So it could have sounded more like pa-das or pa-ras if it was more of an English R.

    Also wanted to point out that Japanese has an alphabet as well as characters, so whilst what the person above says could be an interpretation of what Tomo said in Japanese “kanji” (their Chinese characters), the mother most likely wrote it down in their alphabet for foreign words (katakana) and May have looked something like this.
    ムギンバ パレス, if she’d have written the words the person above suggested it would have been in kanji and the article would have mentioned it.

    Hope this helps :)

    - I guess at the end of the day it’s really hard when it’s cross language like this, especially with Japanese where it’s spoken in separate syllables unlike English where our sounds flow together. For example, take the word scarf. Japanese people use the word scarf too to mean fashion scarf but it’s pronounce su-kaa-fu. If you say it out loud it sounds like scarf but it’s so different from the original English word you might not be able to guess that without me telling you.
    So the problem with this is, even though we have what his mother heard, it might be impossible to try and turn it back into English without hearing it from him out loud. And even then he might have been trying to say a word that he knew in a Scottish accent which would further complicate the issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  3. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    Thank you Sheeply for your input and understanding, it was kind of you to taken the time to address this issue.
     
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  4. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Sheeply, thank you for joining the discussion. You’re observations are well taken. I’ll defer any comments I might have for a later date. I would only point out that we don’t have to assume anything. We need only go down the list of names methodically, one by one, obtain the death certificates from Scotland’s National Records, and decide if any of the deceased boys match the very specific claims purportedly made by Tomo to his mother as documented by several researchers over the years since 2005. There will either be a “match” – a likely candidate, or there won’t be.

    In the meantime, if anyone is interested in the academic side of things, they should try to get ahold of the following articles that discuss Tomo’s case:

    Ikegawa, A. (2005). Investigation by questionnaire regarding fetal/infant memory in the womb and/or at birth. Journal of Prenatal and Perinatal Psychology and Health,20 (2), 121–133 (available on-line. This was the original article on Tomo).

    Miyao, M. (2007). Jiheishou no hajimari to ninchishougaikasetsu. Gendai Shiso, May issue, 196–211. (Dr. Miyao was the psychologist who examined Tomo in 2005.)
    (available at Stanford University: https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/4178280
    Call no. (off campus storage): B804 .G42 V.35:NO.4-6 2007 ; I haven’t been able to find this article anywhere else, so if anyone could help obtaining a re-print it would be greatly appreciated. )

    Ohkado, M. (2011). Kakosei no kioku o motsu kodomo ni tsuite: Nihonjin jidou no jirei. Jintaikagaku 20, 33–42. (This was Professor Ohkado’s original paper in Japanese).

    And of course, Professor Ohkado’s 2013 paper on Tomo in UVa’s JSE is available for viewing on-line at academia.edu; you just need to sign in. If you’re at all interested in reading academic papers related to this paper (or any other paper in your field of interest)(they send you recommendations automatically to the e-mail address that you provide), I would encourage you to sign up. It’s free and pretty painless.

    Once again, thank you brave Sheeply for chiming in. Please keep checking in as I will be providing updates as the weeks and months progress. I’ll assume you are an undergraduate (or whatever the UK or British Commonwealth equivalent is) in Japanese language studies. Good luck this term!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  5. Sheeply

    Sheeply Senior Member

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    Thank you! :) this stuff is super interesting to me so if I can help in any way I can. I hope we can find a match for him. Even if we can’t, it’s certainly very interesting.

    We are called undergraduates here in the UK too :) thanks for the well wishes, good luck on your search too!
     
  6. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Sheeply, thanks for your offer. If you have a little free time and can read romanized Japanese writing, you can try to translate the journal article titles into English in the post above. But only if you have some free time. Your studies come first.
     
  7. Sheeply

    Sheeply Senior Member

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    I’ll try!
     
  8. Sheeply

    Sheeply Senior Member

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    Okay so I’ve got a good idea of what the titles say.
    Miyao, M. (2007). Jiheishou no hajimari to ninchishougaikasetsu. Gendai Shiso.

    This probably says “autism’s origin and cognitive disorder hypothesis. Contemporary philosophy”
    I say probably because I can’t see the kanji and some of the word sounds have (not joking) 20+ meanings so I had to make a guess.
    Edit: after some further thought I think it might say “the beginning of autism and cognitive disorder hypothesis”

    Ohkado, M. (2011). Kakosei no kioku o motsu kodomo ni tsuite: Nihonjin jidou no Jirei. Jintai kagaku

    This one says something along the lines of “Child who gained the ability to retain the memory of a previous life: Japanese children’s case. Human body science/sciences”

    Hope this helps! Good practise for me too haha :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
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  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Thanks, Sheeply. Well done.



    (Japanese boy and his mother at 5:55. And there he is again at 8:16. Check out the produce van at 10:10-10:13. Edinburgh seems to be a mecca for tourists. Note especially the Japanese tourists scattered along the parade route.)
     

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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  10. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    That would indeed be a "feel-good" thing to do. I've wondered if someone has ever recognized me as being someone in a prior physical experience and are refraining from telling me, it could get mixed up quite a bit as I could have difficulty in determining which lifetime the meeting occurred.
     
  11. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Tomo claimed that he died late October 1997 in “Room” 4 on the 7th floor of either a 13-story wing or 7-story wing of a hospital 115 “kilometers” north of his home in or near Edinburgh, Scotland. I google-searched “list of hospitals in Scotland” and found that Wikipedia has a list of over two hundred hospitals in Scotland listed by district. I was especially interested in photographs or floor plans (or both) of hospitals that were open in 1997 and that looked like they may have wings or towers either around 7 or around 13 stories high. If Wikipedia (or NHS Scotland) lacked photographs or floor plans of individual hospitals then I searched google images for them. I was able to come up with a list of candidate hospitals that fit Tomo’s description of the particular hospital he was treated at (having a 7- and/or 13-story tower or wing) and, for several of the hospitals, the location of wards and ward numbers within a particular hospital. Here is the list I came up with divided into 2 parts – hospitals north of Edinburgh; and hospitals west of Edinburgh. (There weren’t any candidate hospitals south or east of Edinburgh and still within Scotland).

    Candidate Hospitals North of Edinburgh:

    1.Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, Aberdeen, Scotland
    (7 floors, 128 miles north of Edinburgh)

    2. Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Scotland
    (10-13 floors, 28 miles north of Edinburgh)

    3. Ninewells Hospital, Dundee, Scotland
    (7 floors with 13-floor lift/ elevator tower, 60 miles north of Edinburgh)

    4. Raigmore Hospital, Inverness, Scotland
    (~ 7 floors, estimated, 155 miles north of Edinburgh)

    Candidate Hospitals West of Edinburgh:

    1.Inverclyde Royal Hospital, Greenock, Scotland
    (7+ floors, estimated, 78 miles west of Edinburgh)

    2. Gartnavel General Hospital, Glasgow City, Scotland
    (10 floors, more or less, estimated, 49 miles west of Edinburgh)

    3. Glasgow Royal Infirmary, Glasgow City, Scotland
    (8 floors, more or less, estimated, 46 miles west of Edinburgh)

    4. Royal Hospital for Sick Children, Yorkhill, Glasgow, Scotland
    (in 2015 this hospital was renamed and repurposed as the
    West Glasgow Ambulatory Care Hospital)
    (6-8 floors, estimated, 52 miles west of Edinburgh)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
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  12. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Tomo claimed he was born August 9, 1988 and died October 24/25, 1997, age 9. Here are complete lists of all 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12-year-olds who died and were registered in Scotland, 1997-1999. I drew up the lists based on data from the National Records of Scotland’s website:

    www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

    Complete List of Candidate 8- and 9-year-olds:

    Name, Age, Year of Death, Registered in District of, Match/ No Match

    X-1. Sam, 8, 1999, Wick, no match
    X-2. Alistair, 8, 1997, Port Glasgow, no match
    X-3. John, 9, 1998, Renfrew, no match
    X-4. Garry, 9, 1997, Dundee, no match
    X-5. Charles, 9, 1998, Bellshill, no match
    X-6. Gary, 8, 1998, Dundee, no match
    X-7. Benjamin, 8, 1998, Lathron, no match
    X-8. James, 9, 1998, St. Andrews (Fife), no match
    X-9. George, 8, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-10. Douglas, 9, 1997, Falkirk, no match
    X-11. Lee, 8, 1997, Penicuik and Glencorse, no match
    X-12. Daryl, 8, 1997, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-13. Dean, 9, 1998, Peterhead, no match
    X-14. Darren, 9, 1998, Stornoway, no match
    X-15. David, 8, 1999, Carnoustie, no match
    X-16. David, 8, 1998, Glenrothes, no match
    X-17. Ford, 9, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-18. Fraser, 9, 1999, Glenrothes, no match
    X-19. Scott, 9, 1997, Aberdeen, no match
    X-20. Jamie, 9, 1999, Larbert, no match
    X-21. Jason, 8, 1998, Bathgate, no match
    X-22. Joseph, 9, 1998, Kirkintilloch, no match
    X-23. Ross, 8, 1997, Edinburgh, no match
    X-24. Kristofer, 9, 1997, Rosskeen, no match
    X-25. William, 8, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-26. Michael, 9, 1997, Dundee, no match
    X-27. Phillip, 8, 1997, Duns, no match
    X-28. Scot, 8, 1997, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-29. Uisdean, 8, 1999, Tain, no match
    X-30. Vijay, 9, 1998, Eastwood and Mearns, no match

    (I included 8-year-olds to be certain we did not miss any 9-year-olds, whose birth year made it appear that they 8, when in fact, based on their actual birthdate, they were 9 at
    date of death. I have gotten the results back for several candidates already, none of which proved to be a "likely candidate", so are marked X- and "no match".)

    Complete List of Candidate 10-year-olds:

    Name, Age, Year of Death, Registered in District of, Match/ No Match

    X-1. Jack, 10, 1997, Linlithgow, no match
    X-2. Allan, 10, 1997, North Berwick, no match
    X-3. John, 10, 1998, Vale of Leven, no match
    X-4. Adeel, 10, 1997, Cumbernauld, no match
    X-5. Barry, 10, 1999, Hamilton, no match
    X-6. Callum, 10, 1998, Strathendrick (Balfron), no match
    X-7. Craig, 10, 1997, Edinburgh, no match
    X-8. Darren, 10, 1998, Bathgate, no match
    X-9. Derek, 10, 1999, Elgin, no match
    X-10. Stuart, 10, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-11. Gary, 10, 1997, Dumbarton, no match
    X-12. Greg, 10, 1998, Nairn, no match
    X-13. Stephen, 10, 1997, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-14. Hazem, 10, 1999, Old Kilpatrick, no match
    X-15. Micheal, 10, 1999, Aberdeen, no match
    X-16. Stuart, 10, 1997, Glenrothes, no match
    X-17. Scott, 10, 1998, Larbert, no match


    Complete List of Candidate 11-year-olds:

    Name, Age, Year of Death, Registered in District of, Match/ No Match

    1. Daryl, 11, 1999, Larkhall
    2. Alan, 11, 1998, Carluke
    3. Archibald, 11, 1998, Inverness
    4. Blair, 11, 1998, Penicuik and Glencorse
    X-5. Paul, 11, 1998, Aberdeen, no match
    X-6. Christopher, 11, 1998, Kilbirnie, Beith, and Dalry, no match
    X-7. Stephen, 11, 1997, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-8. Daniel, 11, 1997, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-9. Stephen, 11, 1999, Airdrie, no match
    X-10. Kevin, 11, 1998, Bailieston, no match
    X-11. Grant, 11, 1999, Forfar, no match
    X-12. Jamie, 11, 1998, Cumbernauld, no match
    X-13. Lewis, 11, 1999, Kennoway, no match
    X-14. Wahid, 11, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St., no match
    X-15. Robert, 11, 1998, Dundee, no match

    Complete List of Candidate 12-year-olds:

    Name, Age, Year of Death, Registered in District of, Match/ No Match

    1. Andrew, 12, 1997, Cumbernauld
    2. Simon, 12, 1999, Inverurie
    3. Alan, 12, 1998, New Kilpatrick
    4. Charles, 12, 1999, Ballachullish
    5. Talal, 12, 1997, Old Kilpatrick
    6. Barry, 12, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St.
    7. Paul, 12, 1998, Dundee
    8. Charles, 12, 1997, Denny
    9. Peter, 12, 1999, Edinburgh
    10. Craig, 12, 1998, Penicuik and Glencorse
    11. Craig, 12, 1999, Stromness
    12. James, 12, 1998, Dumbarton
    13. Craig, 12, 1999, Penicuik and Glencorse
    14. Thomas, 12, 1999, Edinburgh
    15. Gary, 12, 1998, Glasgow, Martha St.
    16. Derek, 12, 1999, Denny
    17. David, 12, 1997, Bellshill
    X-18. Derek, 12, 1997, Dundee, no match
    19. Gary, 12, 1997, Livingston
    20. Graeme, 12, 1998, Greenock
    21. Rory, 12, 1999, Lochgilphead
    22. Paul, 12, 1998, Dundee
    23. Philip, 12, 1997, Cambuslang
    24. Peter, 12, 1999, Edinburgh
    25. Tyler, 12, 1999, NRH

    Message from Scotland's National Records website (scotlandspeople.gov.uk) as of mid-March 2020:
    "Certificate Search -- Owing to the unprecedented circumstances surrounding COVID-19 (Coronavirus), we are currently unable to fulfil certificate orders.
    We will reinstate this facility as soon as we are able."
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  13. inhaltslos

    inhaltslos Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  14. SleeplessFox

    SleeplessFox Member

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    That's priceless work you're offering here, thank you! I'll read your post once more to get alle the details :)
     
  15. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Tomo (at 4.7 y.o., ie., 4 years 7 months old) made the following statement: (Watching news [on Japanese TV] of a train crash) “There was also a train accident in the UK, in Southall. I watched the news on TV. It said ‘Accident! Accident!’ Two trains collided, and a fire occurred. Eight people died.”

    The trigger for this account was most likely a train derailment which occurred on October 23, 2004 (the Jōetsu Shinkansen derailment) in Chuetsu region, Niigata Prefecture, Japan. The derailment caused no injuries or deaths. (Wikipedia). Tomo would have been about 4 years 8 or 9 months old at the time of this accident. (So, 4.8 or 4.9 y.o. according to the date convention used in the 2013 JSE paper).

    Tomo (at 5.6 y.o. ie, 5 years 6 months old) made the following statement: “My house was about 30 seconds away from the station. There was news of a train crash [presumably the Southall England train crash as broadcast by British TV news]. TV said ‘News! News!’ and I saw crashed trains on TV.”

    This account was most likely triggered by Japanese TV news broadcasts of a fatal railway derailment which occurred on April 25, 2005 (the Amagasaki derailment) in Amagasaki, Hyogo prefecture (near Osaka), Japan . A seven-car commuter train came off the tracks and smashed into an apartment building. Of the roughly 700 passengers on board at the time of the crash, 106 passengers, in addition to the driver, were killed and 562 others injured. (Wikipedia). Tomo would have been about 5 years 3 or 4 months old at the time of this accident. (So, 5.3 or 5.4 y.o. according to the date convention used in the 2013 JSE paper).

    My question has to do with the first account. Why was Tomo’s age given as “4.7 y.o.” instead of the presumably more correct 4.8 or 4.9 y.o. given Tomo’s birth date in January 2000? Even assuming a late January 2000 birth date, it still doesn’t quite add up. The dating of the second account, by contrast, does make sense as news concerning the Amagasaki train accident must have continued for weeks if not months on Japanese TV.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  16. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    “At 2.9 or 2.10 y.o., he [Tomo] signed his name as ‘tomo’ using roman letters…. Also around this time (at 2.9 or 2.10 y.o. [ie., around Oct or Nov 2002]), when he heard the English song ‘Top of the World’ for the first time, he was able to sing along, which greatly surprised his mother.” (Ohkado, JSE, 2013)

    Did anyone happen to google search “Carpenters Top of the World”? If you did, did you read the Wikipedia write-up for this 1973 pop song from the Carpenters? Aside from becoming a world-wide hit after it was released in September 1973, it was used as a theme song for several TV and film productions in the following decades including two Japanese TV serials. From Wikipedia:

    Top of the World (The Carpenters song)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “. . . In Japan, it was used as the opening theme song for the 1995 Japanese [TV] drama Miseinen. In 2003, another drama, Beginner, had it as its ending theme song. . . .”

    Miseinen (“Underage”) was a Japanese TV serial drama which premiered Fall season, 1995 (Oct -Dec). Beginner, was a Japanese TV serial comedy which premiered Fall season, 2003 (Oct 16 – Dec 22, 2003) on Japanese TV. Both Japanese TV productions featured the Carpenters pop hit “Top of the World” as a theme song.

    “Beginner” premiered about a year after Tomo purportedly first heard “Top of the World”. But what about “Miseinen”? Could Tomo have heard and picked up the Carpenters song from a DVD or video recording (or rebroadcast) of this Japanese TV serial?

    I was curious so I ordered the 2007 Taiwanese-produced DVD box set of the 1995 Japanese TV drama Miseinen (“Underage”) (with Chinese, Japanese, Malay, and English subtitles) from Amazon. The 2007 DVD box set contained three discs on which were recorded all 11 episodes (about 45 minutes for each episode). Not including the DVD introductory set-up page which features the complete original 1973 recording, the original Carpenters “Top of the World” is heard as opening theme music in English about 2 to 3 minutes into each of the first 10 episodes, at least the first few lines of it anyway, before it gradually fades into the background.

    Tomo purportedly first heard the Carpenters “Top of the World” in October or November 2002 and supposedly was able to sing along in English. Were there earlier DVD and/or video recordings of Miseinen (“Underage”) made before 2007? It turns out, yes, there are Japanese DVD and video box sets from 2002 or before, see the earliest reader review from April 15, 2002 in the link below:

    https://jdorama.com/drama.miseinen.261.htm

    But it gets better. Miseinen (“Underage”) tells the story of 5 teen-age boys in their final year at a large urban Japanese high school (so 17/ 18 year olds) who become friends during or because of their adventures, sometimes sexual, sometimes violent. Although each of the boys has his own storyline, one boy, Hiro, seems to be the central character around which the storylines of the other four boys seem to weave in and out at least through the first episode before they form a sort of friendship club after getting to know one another. And yes, school-uniform clad Japanese high school girls and university girlfriends are very much intertwined into the plot.

    Anyway, if you manage to get through the first episode you will have noticed the following curious dialogue, several minutes into it, right after the first few lines of the Carpenters opening theme song “Top of the World” (from Disc 1 Episode 1 “The Red Umbrella and Older Brother’s Girlfriend”):

    Junpei (fellow high school student and friend of Hiro) asks Hiro: “Hiro, you got any wet dream before?”

    Hiro: “Wet dream?”

    Junpei: “That is the healthy physical phenomenon of teenager. It can be define as changing the vibrant youth into something liquid.”


    Hmmm. I thought Sleepless Fox said the Japanese were a little squeamish when it came to such subjects. If this bit of dialogue from Miseinen (Underage) sounded familiar to you, you might recall Tomo’s statement:

    [At 4.1 y.o.:] “When I was British Tomo, on Feb 16th, white liquid came out of my penis for the first time.” …..

    Coincidence? I don’t know. Four-year-old Tomo would not have been able to interpret what on earth Junpei and Hiro were talking about in the dialogue above without some older person explaining it to him. Like a teen-age babysitter perhaps? Like an older relative (brother or cousin)? I did watch the next 10 episodes (at 2x fast-forward mode, mind you) and this TV serial seems like perfect unsupervised teen-age babysitting fodder from what I could make out. Nothing about Scotland or asthma attacks or dying of fever in any of the episodes, however, but the boys do shoot off fireworks during a nighttime beach party in Episode 4. A hospital and a doctor enter into the plot in one or two of the later episodes, but nothing to do with childhood illnesses.

    Here is a link to one reviewer’s blog of the original Japanese box set showing a photo of the 5 boys:

    https://mydramalist.com/photos/GLEmD
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020 at 7:43 PM
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  17. SleeplessFox

    SleeplessFox Member

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    Thanks for your outsanding work GSITS!
    I had no idea about this tv show but I want to add that The Carpenters had an incredible huge success with almost all their material in Japan and there are lots of live cuts on YT where they perform sold out shows in Tokyo and other cities.
    What I want to say: this song was probably on heavy rotation for decades since it's release in the early 70's. However shouldn't Tomo's mother should have recognized it when this song was a part of a popular tv show that the family might have watched (probably more than once in a while)? For me personally it doesn't make any difference considering the strenght of this CORT
     

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