Tomo - Japanese / scottish case of 2000

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by SleeplessFox, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. Summer785

    Summer785 New Member

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    GSITS:

    I wish I could go further with this thought but I know nothing of Japanese unfortunately, and only a small passing knowledge of anything related to linguistics. I honestly don’t know where to go from here. I have followed this thread from the beginning and find it so fascinating and wish there was more information out there about it!

    Were you ever able to reach out to Dr. Ohkado? Because interestingly he does have a background in both Japanese (naturally) and linguistics! You seem to have extensive knowledge as well (hmm maybe you are Dr. Ohkado? ;) *kidding*)— but do you think Menzieshill could very well be the place Tomo is referencing?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  2. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Just keep googling stuff. It's amazing what you can find on the internet.

    Yes, but don't let me prejudice anybody else's research. We'll end up like 6-year-olds all running towards the same soccer ball. Since I can't quite derive one from the other, that is, Mu-gi-n-ba Pa-re-su from "Menzieshill [MEEN-gis-hill] Parish" I don't think I could use it in a paper, but this, along with other evidence, does point us toward Ninewells Hospital, don'tcha think? But that's just my opinion. You may have found something else that points to a different hospital/ city, and you should follow up on that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  3. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I thought the repetition/ recitation of the following quotes -- almost verbatim -- from Ohkado's 2013 JSE paper a little strange:

    (17) 4.2 years old (cf. (18), (24), (25)) “British Tomo was hospitalized at ‘Muginba Paresu’ [as transcribed in the diary in Japanese letters] hospital.2 At first no room was available. When room 4 on the 13th floor became available, four of us, father, mother, (elder) brother, and me went there by car. It was 115 kilometers from my house to the hospital. Since it was far away, we used a highway. My brother was five years older than me and 14 at that time. In the hospital, there was a place like a bath, and there was a doctor who put powder medicine into hot water and massaged me. The treatment didn’t work and I had an operation. I had a fever of 40 Celsius and died.”

    (24) 5.6 years old (cf. (17), (18), (19), (25)) (After a thunderstorm at night) “British Tomo was hospitalized in Muginba Paresu hospital. At first there was no room available. Then, room 4 of the 13th floor became available, so my father, mother, brother, and I went there. We used a highway because the hospital was far away. It was located 115 kilometers to the north from my house. My brother was 5 years older than I, 14 years old. In the hospital, in a bath-like place, a doctor poured powder medicine into hot water and massaged me. It didn’t work and I had an operation. But I had a high fever of 40 Celsius and died."

    (17) Tomo at 4 years 2 months old:

    1. British Tomo was hospitalized at ‘Muginba Paresu’ hospital.
    2. At first no room was available.
    3. When room 4 on the 13th floor became available, four of us, father, mother, (elder) brother, and me went there by car.
    4. It was 115 kilometers from my house to the hospital.
    5. Since it was far away, we used a highway.
    6. My brother was five years older than me and 14 at that time.
    7. In the hospital, there was a place like a bath, and there was a doctor who put powder medicine into hot water and massaged me.
    8. The treatment didn’t work and I had an operation.
    9. I had a fever of 40 Celsius and died.

    (24) Tomo at 5 years 6 months old:

    1. British Tomo was hospitalized in Muginba Paresu hospital.
    2. At first there was no room available.
    3. Then, room 4 of the 13th floor became available, so my father, mother, brother, and I went there.
    4. We used a highway because the hospital was far away.
    5. It was located 115 kilometers to the north from my house.
    6. My brother was 5 years older than I, 14 years old.
    7. In the hospital, in a bath-like place, a doctor poured powder medicine into hot water and massaged me.
    8. It didn’t work and I had an operation.
    9. But I had a high fever of 40 Celsius and died.

    We are supposed to believe that Tomo was able to recall almost verbatim his memory of what happened to him in his past life in the exact same sequence a year after first relaying the above account of his hospital visit and subsequent death to his mother. Verbatim. In the same sequence. Really?

    Here are the same two virtually identical accounts in Japanese from Ohkado's original 2011 paper:
    Ohkado, M. (2011). Kakosei no kioku o motsu kodomo ni tsuite: Nihonjin jidou no Jirei. Jintai kagaku [Society for Mind-Body Science 20 (1) : 33-42]
    [“Child who gained the ability to retain the memory of a previous life: Japanese children’s case.” Ohkado 2011: 37-38]

    upload_2021-1-28_10-10-25.png

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    (To more easily view these attachments you have to log into the forum, then click on the image, right click on "Save Image As", and save to your Desktop. From there you can magnify the image as you like.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  4. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Here's how to write the months of the year in Japanese:

    01-gatsu "one-month" (January)
    02-gatsu "two-month" (February)
    03-gatsu "three-month" (March)
    .
    .
    10-gatsu "ten-month" (October)
    11-gatsu "eleven-month" (November)
    12-gatsu "twelve-month" (December)

    The numbers "one" and "ten" can't be confused in Japanese, even by a dyslexic Japanese person, as the numbers sound and look quite different:
    (the number one is pronounced "ichi" and written as a single horizonal bar - , the number ten is pronounced "juu" and written as a plus sign +).

    However, a Japanese person, especially a dyslexic Japanese person, might confuse "01-month" written down as "01-gatsu" or "01-month" with "10-month" or "10-gatsu".

    Especially a dyslexic number-centric Japanese child or mother learning or trying to interpret the English names of the month as Japanese month-names.
     
  5. contrast

    contrast Senior Registered

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this case looks unpromising. He gave exact birth and death dates that failed to be matched. I wonder if there are any 90's TV shows, books or anime in Japan about a Scottish Boy's life?
     
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  6. contrast

    contrast Senior Registered

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    https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-a...shares-name-famous-edinburgh-folk-pub-2883492

    https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1436
    upload_2021-2-8_4-0-59.png


    We have an anime about a girl from Scotland named "SandyBell". It was named after a pub in Edinburgh, but does not center around one.

    It seems extremely unlikely this is where Tomo got his information from. Nothing to do with resteraunt work, or pealing garlic. SandyBell's dog was named "Oliver" and Tomo's dog was named John. The only vague similarity is the father dying off an illness in the show.

    - Disclaimer - I did not watch the anime but after reading most of what I could, I could not find anything that can be compared to the Tomo case.
     
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  7. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am very interested in this case and I dived into it a few months ago. The main problem is that there was no registered death of a young boy in the time frame young Tomo gave us.

    You can jump into Japanese linguistics (also very interesting) but that doesn't solve the problem of the missing (dead) boy. He is not there. I admit his story sounds convincing and there was real evidence to back up his story. I honestly thought that somehow he was to be found in the history of a Scottish hospital.

    This lack of a protagonist reminded me of another Scottish story, Camaron Mackaulay. Such a sweet little boy from Glasgow that couldn't stop talking about his life on the isle of Barra in Scotland. Dr. Jim Tucker went with the boy and his mother to the island, they found a lot of evidence. They found his former house and found out who had stayed there in the past, but... never found proof of the existence of his past life persona. Almost as if he had lived an invisible life. There never had lived a young boy there.

    Both Tomo and Cameron were very sure and consistent in their stories and I tend to just believe them, although the plain facts are not in their favor.

    I can only think of one more option in the case of Tomo and I really don't know if this is legally possible. Suppose his past life persona had another nationality: Pakistani, Indian, Arab. Not impossible, especially in relation to the restaurant and him helping with chores. In some cultures it is not negotiable that someone is buried on foreign ground. In tropical countries someone is buried into the ground within a day (in my (cold) country it takes between 1 and 2 weeks). So if the past life T. was from a culture that was used to arrange the burial immediatly, they might have arranged the transport of the dead body immediatly the same day he died. In Scotland people have three days to register a death. Maybe his family just didn't register his death there but they were already on their way to homeland with his body and forgot or didn't think it was important to finalize the procedures. Maybe they didn't register his death in Scotland but close to the embassy of their homeland (maybe in London). (I guess you need a declaration of death in order to fly with a corps, but maybe all this happened in another way than we think it should have happened).

    I also wonder, what happens when you do not register the death of a child? Maybe his parents were immigrants who didn't realize the procedures they had to follow. I guess everybody knows the stories of immigrants in their own land that need the help of their children to read the mail and to answer the telephone. Maybe they also returned to their homeland because of grief.
    I am just speculating around, trying to find an answer why there is no registered death of a young boy in Scotland in the time frame that Tomo gave.
     
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  8. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Good job, Contrast. One of the main plot lines of Hello! Sandybelle (original 1981 Japanese anime Title "Haro! Sandiberu.") is that Sandybelle really misses her mother and sets a goal of finding her, even though it is assumed that the mother is deceased. From wikipedia:

    ". . . The Countess gives Sandybell a white lily and she plants it outside the village. She also brings other flowers and plants them around the lily, making a small garden of flowers around it. Sandybell treasures the lily because it reminds her of her deceased mother.

    Sandybell's goal throughout the series is to find her mother someday. In the final episodes, they finally reunite. However, upon their meeting Sandybell finds that her mother suffers from amnesia, and Sandybell fails to convince her that she was her daughter. Later, when a young child falls into the water and Sandy saves his life, flashbacks strike her mother and she remembers the past."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello!_Sandybell

    Similarly Tomo really misses his mother and longs to go back to Scotland one day to find her (according to Ohkado's 2013 JSE paper). Also, Tomo claimed the name of his past-life personality was "Geiris" ("Ge-i-ri-su") which is pretty darn close to the anime character Sandy Belle's last name, "Christie" (Ke-i-ri-su-).

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    fireflydancing -- Interesting speculations but also groundless. I wish I could share more of what I do know at this point but unfortunately I can't risk jeopardizing the project just in case we do come up with a good candidate who may have close living relatives that are worth interviewing. Hang in there everyone.
    We're getting there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  10. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I know, these are just speculations but I really think there should be an explanation of why there is no registered death of a boy between 8-10 years old in that small timeframe.
    It's almost like a murder case: without a body, there is no case at all.

    I just wonder why you say the speculations are groundless. They are groundless but possible. If you have more information, it would be fair to share a little more to lift up the veil. Without using names, you could give some description of the direction in which we should think.
     
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  11. contrast

    contrast Senior Registered

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    upload_2021-2-8_23-17-47.png
     
  12. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Ohkado, 2013 JSE, Footnote 5:

    "5 In the diary, the name is written as “ge-i-ri-i-su” in Japanese letters. The subject’s mother, who does not speak English, naturally chose to write it down in Japanese, and if the subject had pronounced the word in English (or English-like pronunciation), the transcript might not be very reliable. It could have been even “James.” "

    So there's a fairly broad latitude in interpreting "ge-i-ri-su", be it "James" or "Gillis (pronounced Jillis)" or your best guess. But you are right, Contrast, Ku-ri-su- ("Chris-) doesn't look that close to "ge-i-ri-i-su" when you use Google translate.
     
  13. contrast

    contrast Senior Registered

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    Lots of children that Jim Tucker and Ian Stevenson investigated missed their previous mom and dad and yearned for them. That is a very common theme in CORT. So far I don't see SandyBell as a fitting explanation. However, I will continue to play the role of the skeptic.
     

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