Transgenderism, Reincarnation, Heaven, and/or Hell?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by TheDivineOne, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    So after an episode of depression, I'm on this spiritual journey.


    First, I should note that I am a male-to-female transgender in mid-transition. For most of my life, I've identified with being a female. On a few occasions, it has gotten to a point where I nearly committed suicide. I am glad that I failed because committing suicide will either land me a one-way ticket to Hell or reap very bad karma.


    I recently had a long conversation with someone who seems very strong on her faith in God (I prefer to call The One whom many refer to as "God" "Source" and with gender-neutral pronouns based on my very-strong belief that God is neither male or female), during which time, she showed me a few bible verses stating that men should not act or dress as women; they're both sins as the bible has a verse that forbids a man having relations with another man and a woman with another woman. For the purposes of this forum post, let's call this woman "Edna." I don't practice any particular religion and neither does Edna. She just has a deep relationship with Source.


    Mind you, Edna seemed like a very nice lady and she was. Edna made it a point to frequently remind me that it wasn't her duty to judge me, to condemn me in any way or to talk me out of my transition, but to "warn" me of the consequences of not doing what God intended for me to do and kept encouraging me to seek a relationship with God. Edna managed to convince me that God doesn't make people transgender, that she'd seen people who were transgender and with God's help were able to start identifying and feeling comfort with the gender they were born without transitioning. She even said to me that the reason why I've struggled with doing "guy things" and that it had been so painful for me trying to be masculine is because God is not helping me with such, or something to that effect. I will say again, she did show me a bible verse that says a man shall not be effeminate, and another that men should not wear women's clothing. Edna despite how kind much of a kind lady she was seemed like a conservative person who lives her life and raised her children in accordance with the word of God.


    The thing about it is and this just dawned on me at the time I typed all this even as I undergo my transformation into a woman, I am still genetically a male, granted I would like for society to read me as a woman and refer to me with "she"/"her" pronouns whether or not they are aware of my being transgender. After that long talk with Edna, I feel a lot... different. I'm now having mixed feeling about having my sex reassignment surgery. Before 4/6/16, I was 100% sure that I wanted to have my genitals changed but now, I'm having mixed feelings about it. I am kind of feeling like I'm afraid to fully transition. I am afraid of going to Hell forever and for all of eternity. I firmly told Edna that I'm still going through with my transition and I stand firm behind my reasons to do so. However I've been feeling sick with worry about it. Here's how I've been feeling:


    I'm still not comfortable with being a male but my desire to be female has only slightly decreased.


    Am I losing my desire to be a woman? I don't ever want to lose my desire to be a woman. What if many years down the road I don't want to be a woman at all? I hope that doesn't end up being the case.


    Having my genitals surgically altered to resemble female genitals feels like a sin and I'm not sure if I want to do it because I'm afraid I will go to Hell if I do it.



    I'm feeling like Source is changing me so that my desire to transition into a woman is not having such a strong and damaging hold on me
    and that my desire to transition into a woman is more of my own will rather that Source's... because it is.


    I only want to do Source's will for my life so that I don't end up going to Hell but what if doing Source's will means reversing my transition altogether and not become a woman at all? I'm not ready to do that. I'm not ready to give up any of my desires for Source.



    I hope my transgender status and my desire to be a woman is NOT the work of Satan.



    It seems like Source is trying to deliver me from what seems like a sinful desire to be a woman but it's like I'm willfully fighting to hold on to my desire to be a woman, choosing to stay in my sinful state, because I really want to transition. I don't want to waste the work I put into my transition



    As much as I really want to do this, I'm afraid of going to Hell.



    I want to know that reincarnation exists but I'm choosing to believe in a Heaven and a Hell to stay on the safe side.



    Everything I've italicized above are thoughts and statements that'd been running through my head like crazy, scaring me like crazy, driving me crazy. But I am constantly reminding myself with these questions that make me feel somewhat at ease:


    What if Purgatory exists and that by transitioning, I go to Purgatory, not Hell?


    What if reincarnation really is a thing?


    But why is it that... the world's population has people who can, without any divine help, naturally identify with the gender which they were born and others not so much? Hmm? Why is it that my mannerisms and gender identity are that of a female? Hmm? Why is it that a bible which was typed and printed (much like this Internet post, sans the printed part) seems to forbid against males being effeminate but not females being masculine or people being transracial (to my knowledge at least). Get this: being female is my soul's desire! Don't any of you reading this think that there's a reason for that? As some say, everything happens for a reason. So maybe... just maybe... it is my soul's desire to be female for a reason! I believe and respect the notion that Source made me male for a reason and that Source doesn't make people transgender.


    For example, let's say if you're taking a train ride or a flight from San Francisco, California to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, during which trip you discover your wallet, credit card, and $10,000 cash all happens to turn up missing. You then later found out that a security officer or a TSA officer stole such valuable articles from you. It's to my understanding that Source did not tell individual to steal your belongings but had a very good reason for allowing him/her to do so. Wouldn't any of you agree?


    I could really use a spiritual lawyer right about now. Or maybe I already am one! LOL


    Overall, I feel a lot more at ease with being male-appearing person. I still desire to transition but that desire isn't as strong, and I'm afraid to go through with it. Just before, when my transgender feelings got so out of hand, I desired to not live past 40 or 50. Now, I do plan to live out my entire life, whether I live beyond 40, 50, 80 or to 100 and wait until it's actually my time to transition to The Other Side as again, committing suicide will only reap punishing consequences whether or not reincarnation exists. I still never want to lose my desire to be female. In fact, I could never see myself being a cis straight macho man and I'm sure I don't have to be. Even as I typed that last sentence, note that I still feel a tinge of discomfort with being called a man or me calling myself one. I put a lot of work and money into my transition. I cannot see myself de-transitioning to start living the rest of my life as a man. I just cannot do it. In fact, despite all the emotional stress, pain, and turmoil being transgender has brought me, I would much rather be born male and be a male-to-female transgender than to be born male and be a cis (not transgender) straight male.


    Also according to Deuteronomy 23:1 in the bible, "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD." Mind you, that verse does not directly state that a man whose genitals are removed are going to Hell. It just states that they won't enter Heaven. Also the bible seems to reject the idea of reincarnation altogether. There are some people who based on their religious beliefs welcome and reject the idea of reincarnation. I believe in it... want to anyway. My cisgendered female friend (who was born, and identifies with being, female) with whom I'm very close with tells me she isn't sure if or not reincarnation exists. For argument's sake let's just say:


    You only get this one life.


    You did not exist before you came here.


    You will not exist after you die.


    When you die, you are judged and then go to either Heaven or Hell.


    I was born Black, I was born mal. That's it. This is the only experience I get. I'm transgender, I never will know what it's like to be any other gender or race according to such notions. No! I feel very strongly that I have lived before, that I've been a female before and will again; not because I want to believe I will be born female in a future lifetime, so to speak, but because of where I come from in my firm connections with spirituality, Abraham-Hicks, and things of that nature. I refuse to give into notion that there is "no reincarnation." Even with the notion that Source made me male for a reason, I also happen to believe in these things for a reason. Maybe looking to prove them is not in my best interest right now. Maybe perhaps it would behoove me to go through with my transition (hormones, FFS, hip implants, voice training, hair removal) and do the whole male-to-female transformation process without having the surgery to remove my genitals, just to stay on the safe side.


    I have tried only one past-life regression meditation to see who I was in a prior lifetime. I got just one vision. It wasn't really a vision, so to speak, it was more-so three jumbled messages and these are the three messages I've acquired:

    • Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    • female, African American
    • 1959 (or 1957)
    Mind you, I have not attempted another PLR since then. I don't know if I was born or died in Philadelphia, if the late 1950s was the era I was born in or died in, but I do have the strong feeling that I was indeed a female in that incarnation. I felt very strongly (and still do) that I should've been born a female... in this life. I would have liked to have been born female. I find myself wondering what it's like to have been born female. So maybe perhaps I don't know what it's like to be female. Maybe I've never been female before in any life. Could my vision wrong? Could it be that I've forgotten what it's like to be female? It's funny because according to that vision, I was African American in that life and I'm African American in this life too.


    It's also starting to dawn on me now that even as being transgender is not an act of Source, being transgender is more or less a genetic thing that involves science. Since science has yet to prove what exactly "causes" people to be transgender, I'm thinking the reason they haven't yet is because transgenderism is more likely soul-involving than genetic involving but that's just my theory. Based on my personal experiences with my life, I feel as though it's my life's purpose to be an inspirational speaker, a life coach, a law of attraction guru and teacher, a motivational speaker.


    Thank you to you and all others who have taken the time to read my post and reply to me. I understand that I most likely won't get any definite set-in-stone answers from merely an Internet forum on this subject but I would just love to hear others' opinions on this topic and what people think I should do.
     
  2. Rajmo6779

    Rajmo6779 Registered

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    Remember that old song where they sing, “Love the one you’re with”? After reading your post today, that song popped into my head. So I feel compelled to tell you to love yourself, no matter what. :)


    I was baptized Catholic but attended the Methodist church with my mother as a child. As an adult I have abandoned organized religion, and I did so after my second-born son died. After he died I began to explore reincarnation and asked my guardian angel to send me a Hindu friend. Imagine my surprise when about a year later, a new woman was hired into my company at work who was Hindu. I befriended her and now, three years later, she is still one of my dearest friends. She recommended a book to me called Dying to Be Me, by Anita Moorjani. It changed my life. If you have time to read it, I recommend it to you highly. (I am not paid to endorse the book and I do not know the author.) As I read your post here today, that book came to mind immediately. It can’t hurt you to read it, and it might just help. After reading it, I no longer believe in heaven or hell in the way that it was taught in church when I was a little girl. In fact, I always struggled with those ideas, and the struggle became worse and worse the older I became. The final straw was when my son died. I walked through hell and came out on the other side alive after he died, and so now I don’t see it as something that will happen to me when I die on account of some perceived sin.


    Also, while I read your post today, I wondered, “What if his journey is to find his past lives? What if finding his past lives is what sets him free from the desire to change genders in this lifetime” I’m not saying whether you should or you shouldn’t be set free from that desire, but it just occurred to me that if it’s possible to get rid of phobias, or eczema, or allergies, or whatever though PLR, then who is to say that it won’t make a difference to you in your decision to stay a man or become a woman? And to be clear, I think that wanting to change genders is a very different issue than an allergy, or a phobia, or eczema, but those are just the examples I’ve read about so far in the reincarnation books I’ve read. (Forgive me if I'm using him/his when I should be using her/hers--talking about transgender folks is new to me and I don't know if I should say him or her to you...please feel free to teach me so I won't be hurtful to you! :) )


    Regarding killing oneself. I used to want to kill myself too. Then one day it hit me that sometimes the best, most powerful thing I could do was to keep on living, in spite of the pain, and that sometimes I just had to come up out of the ashes like a phoenix (but with both middle fingers raised and blazing, haha).


    Oh, and I don't think you're going to go to hell. I think mankind invented the bible in order to control people. If there's a hell, it sounds to me like you're living it. You sound tortured by this choice, and with excellent, excellent reason.


    Peace be with you my friend. I don’t envy you your journey but I sure as heck admire you for sticking with it. You are strong, and you are brave, and you can do this!!!
     
  3. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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    TheDivineOne,


    Your post is heartbreaking.


    Please don't base your decision on what a Bible verse says. You specifically mentioned Deuteronomy 23:1, but look at the very next verse. It says a bastard will not enter the assembly of the Lord. Really? How can a bastard possibly be responsible for the conditions of his/her birth? A tiny baby!? Doomed???? And then look at the next verse after that. It says that an Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter the assembly of the Lord. Again, Really? An entire ethnic group/nationality? How are any of those people responsible for the condition of their birth? A tiny baby is responsible for where s/he was born???? (Ammon and Moab are roughly geographically present day Jordan. No Jordanians can enter the assembly of the Lord????) Really!!!????


    Do you condone slavery? The Bible says it's okay (as long as you follow the 'rules' for owning slaves). Do you agree with that? Do you know of anyone who has committed adultery? Do you agree they should be killed for it? The Bible says so.


    I don't want to interfere with your religious beliefs, I'm just trying to point out a few things to keep it (Bible verses) in perspective. I hope you have a good (non-judgemental) counselor/therapist you can discuss everything you wrote in your post. You're correct that you can't depend on random people on the internet to answer your questions, but I do so hope you have a qualified professional (therapist) to talk to about all of this pain you're in! I agree you are very brave and I also wish you much peace on your journey!
     
  4. Darth Daddicus

    Darth Daddicus Rep

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    If you would like to quote verses from the Christian gospels to comfort yourself with your thoughts, just go straight to Matthew and read that puppy again. I learned that Matthew was the first book of the Christ's teachings, and it sounds convincing to my own soul, so I'll go ahead and believe that one. I don't place much significance on the rest of that book as being the word of "Source" because Source speaks a perfect, unchangeable, omnipotent language. Christ's words in Matthew follow along with it as well. When the Pharisees questioned the validity of Christ's claims that he was, in fact, the Christ, by claiming that first Elijah must come, the Christ pointed to John The Baptist and said he was Elijah. Then he said, "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear", which is today's version of "Do you get what I'm saying?" "Can you wrap your head around that?" The Christ said John The Baptist was Elijah. The Christ spoke of reincarnation. Other people will attempt to point out that corrections and clarifications were made in other gospels, but, like I said, Matthew is the one I legitimize. Later on in Matthew, the scribes try to trip the Christ up about the resurrection by talking about some woman who marries a man, but he dies and she has to marry his brother, but he dies, and she ends up marrying brothers all the way to the seventh one because it is some written law of some sort.


    Then they ask who is the woman's husband in the resurrection. He replies that humans become like the angels at death and are not taken into marriage at all. He then told them that it is written that God says, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." He then goes on to say that God is the God of the living, not of the dead. Not that I need any validation for my beliefs, but I at least point these verses out when I'm questioned about how I can be a believer in the teachings of Christ and still believe in reincarnation. Maybe it will help you.



    As far as the transgender thing is going for you, perhaps you were at a transitioning point in your previous life where you were finally supposed to become a man, and you just feel more comfortable with being a woman because it's what you've done before for so long. I feel as though I'm transitioning right now, but I have found my soul-mate and I believe she is too. I hope she becomes as comfortable with the transition as I am becoming, because I don't want to have to go through the nonsense stigma that is brought about by homosexuality these days. Beyond that, I would like to have kids on this planet with my soul-mate, and I want to have them sooner rather than later, and it won't help if she's not ready for the transition when it comes.



    If this were me going through this, I wouldn't spend any amount of money changing myself with surgery, but I also wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get involved in relationships because of the current stigma involved on this planet. Once we have more people who accept the fact that we reincarnate, there will be less of a stigma about it, but until that happens, you might as well wait.
     
  5. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The hell you fear isn't even in the original language of the Bible, you know. It is a myth imported and translated into the spiritual teachings from various other religions' ideas of what happens after death. Check the link below to see a few articles on the topic that summarize a lot of what I discovered when I first started looking into hell and why people believe in it so strongly. (I was raised by Christian missionaries, so it was a big fight for me to realize that the truth really isn't what I was taught to believe.)


    I'm of the (personal) opinion that the primary and maybe only version of "hell" that actually exists is all the terrible things that happen to people in life. Abuse, deception, war, fear, cruelty, division, isolation ... we don't really need hell when we've already got it all here. Thankfully, we also get to participate in healing and helping each other, too.


    I think going back and forth between being the abusers and experiencing the perspective of those who have been harmed by going through both sides of the story is more likely to lead to enlightenment eventually, and doesn't make the source of conscious life and love into some abhorrent monster who goes around like the mafia, "protecting" people (from its own threats of pushing them into fire) in exchange for their compliance.


    From what I currently understand, any hell-like experience on the other side occurs when a spirit is deeply damaged and needs isolation and assistance while it heals. More like an ER or a personally chosen retreat into tortured seclusion than "God" shoving someone into fire to torment them out of revenge. It seems anyone who enters that place brings their own suffering in there with them, and eventually heals enough to return and connect with everyone again.


    And I can say by experience that dying on purpose doesn't lead to eternal hell, except in that you might end up facing the same choices again and again from one life to another until you figure out how to be whole in the face of it instead of being destructive to yourself or others.... The problem with having many lifetimes is that eventually you learn and grow and become more capable of seeing opportunities where before there seemed to be only an endless trap ... oh, wait. That's a benefit.


    I don't know whether your soul feels called to transition or keep your current physical body. Nobody else can tell you the path you are called to, because each path is unique.


    I know you're afraid and that fear shuts down your intuition so it's hard to hear the calm inner voice that would guide you. Hopefully if you can get out from under the psychopathic threats of hell based on the violent mask of myth and religious control mechanisms that some people call "God", you might find enough space to breathe and listen to the real source, who happens to be more understanding and compassionate by nature than many religious types can imagine.


    Think of the best and kindest people you've ever met or heard of, the ones who made you feel more whole and worthy of life after the experience. Do you think the source of love is going to offer anything less than that kind of support and compassion? However, unfounded fear opens the mind to self destructive patterns of thought and belief, and an inability to see peace even when you hold it in your own hand. And in my experience the only way to fight back fear is to learn how to hold love closer than fear.


    You are not alone on this journey of discovery. You already have guardians and guides who can help you find peace. Take all the time you need to learn how to listen to them without filtering everything through a muffling veil of fear.


    I'm glad you've chosen life. It's worth the experience.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2016
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi D.O.:


    I have been kinda wondering whether you would post again, and I was a bit worried about you given your prior talk of suicide. In any case, I have a lot to say about a variety of issues brought up here, however, time doesn't allow me to say much at the moment, so I'll just cut to a few points: (1) the Bible wasn't written as a tool of oppression, but it is often misinterpreted and/or misapplied in a way that makes it one. (2) The OT law was based on building a company of people that would serve God's purposes in the World. It and the Old Testament generally say almost nothing about life after death. Actually, most of the stuff you are reading has to do with the rules for membership in the Covenant People, not heaven, though the two have been conflated over time. The rules themselves have a lot to do with staying healthy, symbolizing certain concepts, becoming spiritual/ethical people, and not looking/acting like the other people around them in terms of certain areas of appearance/behaviors, etc. (3) The OT law was fulfilled and done away with by Jesus, except to the extent it embodies the moral law--the first and second great commandments, upon which all the other commandments are based and by which they must be interpreted. So, acting like these still "legally" apply is generally incorrect, though it depends on the precept and how it is being interpreted. (4) Much of what is interpreted as referring to "Hell" in the New Testament actually is typical prophetic/apocalyptic language referring to the coming judgment on Jerusalem and the OT people in 70AD. (5) I think you should go with your current comfort zone, and not try to force something because you feel you must, either from spiritual or identity/psychological issues. I.e., you seem comfortable with a bit more of a take it slow approach to transitioning, especially SRS, so why rush. You seem comfortable with thinking of yourself as female, why force a change either way for the time being. You seem comfortable with continuing to study and consider the spiritual aspects of things--continue to do so. Unfortunately, you seem to believe that you are required to go back to where you were (but even more so, as you never really felt like a cismale) due to your spiritual concerns, or rush forward towards being a fully transitioned mtf while abandoning your spiritual concerns. Just take it slow. Most of the people who rush to reassure you that you are headed towards damnation are well meaning, but not very well informed about your condition and/or what scripture actually says. Similarly, there are people who will rush to tell you that you must abandon scripture in order to transition who are (IMHO) also poorly informed about your condition and scripture. As far as I can tell, the only reason to rush in terms of full transition is to avoid current misery/suicide. Likewise, the only reason to rush away from transition would be to avoid imminent spiritual misery/suicide. Since you seem to to be able to walk a line between these two for the moment, I'd keep going the way you are going--i.e., transitioning but delaying for the moment on SRS, keep studying the spiritual side of things, keep praying/meditating and building your spiritual life, and try to come to a place where you actually have a more comfortable sense of certainty about both what is right and what is right for you.


    I hope this helps. If not, toss it. Either way, keep hanging in there. God does answer prayers for wisdom, so keep looking and keep praying.


    Cordially,


    S&S


    PS--For myself, I do not believe that full transition is going to lead you to inevitable damnation, but I also believe that it is a very serious and permanent decision. It is definitely not something you want to regret later--either physically/psychologically or spiritually. Don't rush it if you don't have to.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    PPS--I'm not sure why I am showing up above as "Guest" rather than SeaAndSky. Just another glitch in the system I suppose.
     
  8. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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  9. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Generally we don't attack "religions as entities" (or any other group or ideology as a whole, i.e. "all Christians" etc.) or get into antagonistic debates trying to make someone change their beliefs. They have the right to believe differently than we do.


    However, (from what I understand) talking about problematic concepts in how religions are handled by some groups when it's affecting someone destructively, our own contrasting beliefs and why we believe them, or how our perspectives have changed over time and why (especially applicable research in science and history) is permissible and useful in the context of the forum. <-- This is your approach, btw. I hope that makes sense to you.
     
  10. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Isha,


    No offense intended by my (3) and (4), above. That is the general Christian perspective, to the extent I understand the matter, and I was talking to someone who I took to be a Christian (past or present).


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  11. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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    Does that mean that what I wrote is okay by the forum rules? I want to be careful and obey the rules.
     
  12. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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    Hi, No offense taken :) . I do understand what the Christians beliefs are, and I also took the OP to be a Christian. That's why I was trying to be careful in my original post to not go against any Christian understanding of the Biblical verses, but then clarified in my next post (from the Hebrew language perspective).
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Isha,


    No problem. Actually, I'm not even sure exactly what rules there are, except that I like the way Mere put it, and they generally boil down to "don't be a meanie". I've had some pretty lively debates from time-to-time, but as long as it doesn't get too personal or nasty, I've never been called on it. I recall once getting into some back-and-forth with John Tat which caused Tanguerra to intervene and advise us to tone it down, to which I replied that we weren't angry and this was just the way two "old guys" debated (to which John agreed)--end of issue. So, I would say that things like this depend to some degree on how tough/sensitive the other side is perceived to be (though others "listening in" also have to be considered).


    Cordially,


    S&S


    PS--What does "OP" mean?
     
  14. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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    "OP" means "original post" and/or "original poster". (Or, "opening post/opening poster")


    And thank you for clarifying what the 'rules' are. That's what I thought Mere was saying too. :)
     
  15. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    I will look at the book when I get the chance. I actually do prefer female pronouns despite the fact that I'm not yet finished my transition because I am after all a male-to-female trans person but don't worry about it. It's no biggie, really.


    I am actually determined to live out my full life until it actually is my time to transition to the non-physical as Esther Hicks would put it. I am at a place where, no matter how bad things get (not just with my transition but with life in general) to keep moving forward and keep holding one.

    I'm afraid though. Most Christians would testify that Hell is a very real place and I am still a little shaken up about it. I agree that a baby should be punished for any decisions because babies are so innocent but then again, there's no clear-cut way of knowing what the afterlife and the reincarnation process is like so as some people have this theory that a soul can choose where they're born, lessons to be learned, etc. In fact, in my next life, if I get to choose, I want to be born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. For example, I feel my life experience that has been me being trans has taught me to have the grace to accept the things I cannot change, change what I otherwise can change, and to have the wisdom to know the difference.


    And no, I do not condone slavery or violence or killing (unless in self-defense). Any Bible that says it's okay should be destroyed. There was a Bible verse that says to kill homosexuals but it's against The Ten Commandments to kill. Really?

    So wait, I'm unclear. Are you going through a gender transition as well? Also, are you meaning to imply that I was transgender in a past life too? A female-to-male trans person?


    I want kids too and I feel so destroyed that I can't have any and that in this life I could never experience what a cis woman experiences. It's like being struck with a tragedy that was of no fault of your own that unfairly snatches that dream away.

    To answer your question, no, I don't think the source of love will ever offer anything less than the love and compassion as a cis person. That's just the thing. If Source were any kind of God then She would not **** me to Hell for all of eternity for changing my body to female because God is a God of love and She loves me better than that. Source most likely made me a male for a reason as some self-righteous people like to say and if that really is the case then I respect that, but I will firmly remind those people that my sex, my wanting to change it, as well as my desire for Source to give me a female body in my next life, is between me and Her and that's just that.

    Oh, no. I'm still here. Thanks for the concern though. The thing about it is, I always interpreted the Bible as a "rules and regulations" book, meaning if you don't obey what's in the Bible you go to Hell! So much for the Bible being nicknamed "The Good Book."


    Just a week or two ago, I was absolutely sure I wanted a full sex change operation. But after seeing that lady, I went home feeling TOTALLY different and I couldn't explain why. My desire to be a woman is still there. Make no mistake. But I'm still feeling like my desperate need/want to be a woman is now not-so-desperate, causing me to feel like Source doesn't want me to transition and that I'll go to Hell if I do.


    I tend to think of myself as spiritually and mentally female but am currently waiting for my bodily transformation to be complete so I can be a woman mind, body, and soul. I still want to reincarnate so I can actually be born female.

    That's a relief to know... or believe. I'm still feeling nervous about it. I'm starting to feel like I'm waiting for Source to OK my SRS. I really want to do it but want to rest assured that I won't be condemned to Hell for it.

    Actually, no. I'm not a Christian. I don't practice any religion, especially when religion and self-righteous God believers have taken quite a toll on me and the damage is still there.
     
  16. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I find it odd that you seem to believe in a (singularly rigid) Christian view of Source and the Bible after rejecting religions in general. One of the primary reasons I no longer consider myself as identified by a specific religion is because none of them seemed capable of acknowledging the true freedom of choice and "learning as you go" that comes with love. They tended to get so focused on the rules that growth itself became inhibited. Rejecting vast swathes of unique individuals for being who they are was only one part of it.


    Following rules just because they are someone's rules isn't love. Expecting people to conform to a single path when there are thousands isn't love. Thinking there is only one destination in life isn't love. The religious mentality tends to simplify complex processes and stages of growth for individuals or small groups into "if God expects me to live this way, then I'm going to make sure you have to, also. Otherwise it wouldn't be fair!" And that is rather similar to a baseball player expecting a basketball player to follow the rules of her game instead of their own on the field. There are many games we play, and sometimes we're not playing a game but just exploring possibilities, and don't need such rigid rules to live.


    Love simply isn't controlling in that way, and even as a child I could feel how very off legalism is in how it portrays love as a "judgement" and "rules" instead of a genuinely understanding and interactive relationship that eventually tends to lead to choices that may fit the rules or not (depending on how fiercely specific they are).


    (I know you're burnt by religion, so I understand if you choose not to,...) For a completely different (and for me very healing) view of the Bible, check out Rob Bell's Tumblr. He talks about how the authors each were learning to break free of old rules that weren't very loving and gradually pushing against the culture of the time. Each of the big breakthroughs in the Bible that people tend to see as "the rules" are actually breaking down old systems of belief about God. "You don't have to follow those rules in order to be good people," tends to be a shocking announcement in any era, and it happens quite regularly. It also explains how harsh some of those beliefs still were in spite of the changes, and why we're nauseated by Old Testament morals at times. Shifting a whole culture into an expression of love takes ... well ... a long time (and doesn't seem to have happened in full yet).


    The truth is that when people genuinely respect and love each other there isn't anything to fear in a relationship. People who love tend to naturally regret it when they hurt someone. They don't need to be shamed into it. People who love don't generally steal from others because they know how frustrating it is to have something stolen from them. They don't treat others as objects, because they know they have value and respect them as individuals. They are able to accept differences in opinion and goals because they share a foundation of respect and love for each other.


    Whether you choose to transition physically or not isn't about rules, so far as I can see. What matters (to me, at least) is that you understand that the discomfort, shame, and fear you may feel about your body doesn't originate in love, but in the judgments of fellow humans (and through their instruction in yourself as well).


    And that is (from my perspective) a possible origin of gender dysphoria, too. If gender wasn't such a huge deal culturally and socially, essentially defining you to the people around you, you might not feel quite so trapped physically as you do. Your body wouldn't feel quite so much like a lie because people wouldn't be imagining the wrong things about you every single time you meet.


    I've heard others in similar situations state how they feel like they wouldn't have to always be correcting others--shocking them, "coming out," forcing them to put away the stereotypical cultural identity they automatically chose--if they had a body that would at least lead the general public to guess a little of who they are inside.


    I know there are other reasons to transition, too. I don't know them all because I haven't experienced them. Still, I don't think any choice sourced in a desire for honesty and demonstrating your core identity is wrong unless you cause actual harm to someone else (not just crossing of wills). And you don't seem to be the type who would stomp all over others to get what you want in the first place.


    For your inner health the choice tends to come down to whatever helps with becoming comfortable with yourself and no longer feeling oppressed by society as a whole (as much as possible). If you've reached that point, I'm very happy for you. Spiritually speaking, I think accepting who you are inside, however you do it, is more important than whether others accept the choices you make.


    Sometimes learning to understand that, just because others think they know "the rules" doesn't mean those are the rules for your life, can be the most freeing thing you can learn. (At least it was for me. I can't speak for you because I don't know what you're learning this time around.)


    Who you are is who you are. The body is an accessory. I'm not convinced that your gender (and deciding whether to transition) is a "moral test," unless you gave it to yourself for some reason I don't understand. Source tends to give us all the time we need to figure things out for ourselves, and as you know I believe we get to take a lifetime for each new stage of understanding if we need it.
     
  17. Isha

    Isha Senior Registered

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    I'm confused by that too......why a non-Christian would believe in the Christian 'Hell'???
     
  18. TheDivineOne

    TheDivineOne Should've been born a girl...

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    I don't want to but just because you do or don't believe something doesn't make it real or fiction.


    Let's say for example you're at a doctor's clinic. It's about 9pm and there is this long corridor you have to go through to go to the parking garage to get to your car and go home. The hall is dimly lit but it's utterly silent and creepy.


    You don't want to go through this hallway fearful there's a killer in the hall but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
     
  19. Mere Dreamer

    Mere Dreamer Super Moderators Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have to admit I used to drive myself crazy thinking that way. There's literally no end to it. What if someone drives off the road and crashes into my door just as I walk through it? What if the plane I'm on is the one that crashes? What if ... well, so what? Every "coin toss" of a moment has negative and positive potential outcomes. If I'm always calling tails instead of heads, I'll count how often tails come up and miss out on the heads. What if I walk out my door and meet a new best friend? What if I take a plane ride and end up finding a new home and life for myself?


    Both are equally probable. I choose the one that motivates me in the direction I want to go, and keep a rational eye out for signs that someone is plotting to harm me. Chance is chance. I'll deal with that when it happens.


    Probability being what it is, we can still test our theories for validity, and since you don't adhere to a single religious view as the authority on what you're permitted to consider as valid evidence, you have all sorts of options available to you that some wouldn't allow themselves to see.

    • Before I tested the idea of reincarnation I started questioning hell. It turned out to "literally" be a linguistic misinterpretation and a story based on falsified evidence, easily tracked through history. I could witness how it has always been used as a tool by those who are powerful in religions to manipulate the masses. Other versions of hell tend to be temporary and corrective, generally speaking.
    • Myths have an internal consistency to them across cultures that reflect common human fears and reactions to both natural events and the supernatural influences that aren't as easily pinned down. By comparing them I can see the regional culture in them, and I can see where they were created by fear and attempts to control people.
    • I can see via my own memories that hell hasn't played a role between lives, even when I chose to end it early or made stupid decisions that hurt people.
    • Modern research into past life and between life memories tends to confirm my personal "recollection and intuition" as well.
    I'm sure you're working on your own structure of probability.


    I hope you look for the path that leads to freedom from fear. Living with a constant negative "what if?" instead of the positive version of the same question tends to strain both the body and mind unnecessarily.


    BTW: If you've never heard of Lissa Rankin, look up her TED talks on fear and how it affects physical health, and how a shift in perspective can help. She has several books, and if you find her perspective interesting I think they might help you process the way a negative bias can affect and even control our perception of reality.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi D.O.,


    There are a lot of good posts and points being made here. I'll defer further comment re Christianity at the moment, but I did want to share something with you that has been on my own mind lately--the relationship between my current sex and my PL sex. First, however, I have to say that I'm not sure whether this is the best place (of the 3 threads you have started) to post this. But it does seem relevant somehow. . . .


    My own tale is on the board somewhere, and you can read it if you like. However, one salient point stands out: the PLs that are most recent (to the extent that I am remembering them correctly) were both female, and both seemed to have left me with a strong aversion to being female. This is especially true of the last, which appears to have involved a rather brutal death, probably near the end of WWII. The point is, that I had very good reason to wish to be something other than female in my next lifetime, and I (like you) am biologically male in this life. I am wondering whether this was also a factor in your current situation. I know you have recovered very few PL memories, but it is worth a thought.


    However, the deeper consideration for me always involves the lesson we are meant to learn. I found Isha's recent thread particularly moving, and it also reflects some of the hardships involved in this process. (Please read it if you get a chance). However, the thing I can say that I have learned so far was that thinking that a change to being male will resolve the issues that a person has with being female is incorrect. At least it was for me. To the extent that change alleviated or eliminated some issues, it merely added others. (I think you have definitely found that to be true for you). Was that all that I was meant to learn? I think it was part, but not all. I.e., some of the things that happened to me in those lives may have been unfortunate if not downright horrible, but unfortunate/horrible things happen to both M and F. The real issues I have, which are still issues whether I am M or F, are issues in my own character. They concern the type of person I am, and they are going to travel with me whether I am M or F until I resolve them.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     

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