We shouldn't really help homeless people should we?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by JustinTime, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    If reincarnation and karma are true, then people who are homeless, begging on the streets, are precisely there because they have been troublesome in their past life and are now reaping the karma for their bad actions in another life.

    So the logical thing to do is NOT to help them, right? By helping them, you are actually hurting them, as you are preventing them from paying off their karma.

    Based on the principles discussed in this forum, there is a reason some people are homeless. They were troublesome in their previous life and are now reaping what they sowed. So don't help homeless people. Let them burn in their karma. They had no mercy in past lives when they were in positions of power. They deserve no mercy now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2018
  2. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi JustinTime,

    "Based on the principles discussed in this forum . . ."?!

    As far as I can tell, you are the only one pushing this very "hard" and "hard-hearted" view of how the process works. Perhaps there is someone else here that shares your viewpoint on things, but even accepting a very hard karma sort of approach, what you have said falls on its face. Think for a second. Even from the approach you promote, if someone shows mercy to the people you are talking about, the person showing mercy WILL REAP MERCY IN THE FUTURE FOR THEMSELVES! Isn't this something we all want and need? Jesus' sermons and admonitions are full of this approach, and I could quote several (though it might trigger an admonition from someone about getting "too" religious). Someone else can probably discourse on the issue from a Buddhist standpoint, but the point is the same. What you have said is not only contrary to all principles of goodness and mercy, but in a "hard" karma system/approach it doesn't even make sense from the standpoint of maximizing selfishness. So, next time you see a guy begging, seriously consider giving him a buck (or more). You may need a similar favor yourself somewhere down the line.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  3. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The ancient caste system in India worked that way: you were born into a social position according to your virtues or wrongdoings from an unseen past life and you were not supposed to change caste during your entire life. Such a static point of view was an excuse for abuse, neglect, racism, arrogance and a lot of unhappiness. It was also the reason why lots of Hindus converted to Islam to escape this pre-destination and to become free.
    I don't see any reason to adopt this old Indian believe just because I am convinced of reincarnation. Reincarnation happens all around the world and it's not exclusive a Hindu thing. The concept of Karma is also tricky when you want to apply this to understand other peoples lives. Simply because we DON'T KNOW. Every individual has a different story and background.
    Why would you so easily assume that a homeless person is punished in some way because of this situation? It might also be the last stage of breaking down a former life before being able to build up something new. Or many other explanations.
     
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  4. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I've been homeless in my current life and it wasn't because of past life wrongdoings. I needed it to learn. That's what I took from it. I don't see why misfortune has to be about punishment. Surely it's about growing?
     
  5. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    To learn what? What is there to learn from being homeless or having bad experiences? That life isn't fair? We didn't need to learn that - we already knew that. What did you learn from your life experiences?

    I just believe that there isn't much to learn at all. Why do I need to experience all the bad things in the world? I'll pass, thank you. I'd rather not incarnate (if reincarnation is even true) at all, than to incarnate and experience the bad crap. I'll pass thank you very much.
     
  6. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I learned gratitude. I was also confronted with myself. If I hadn't of been left with nothing I wouldn't have started questioning my own behaviour and life choice's. I've had a hard life but that didn't matter as I couldn't change the past. What I could do was alter what I was doing in order to improve my life and thus improve myself. It didn't matter what other people did to me, it only mattered what I was doing to myself. That's what I discovered when I lost everything. If it hadn't have happened I wouldn't have changed as a person.

    I bucked against life just as you do. Be careful your pride and anger doesn't confront you with yourself. I thought once there wasn't much left for me to learn. Reincarnation humbled me. Be careful life doesn't humble you.
     
  7. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I also lost everything, but not homeless. I ended up hiding in an empty new house, no money, no job, and a lot of bad experiences. I am like you, I just don't accept' the bad crap', so I always looked at it from the bright side: we were still alive (had experienced serious life threats), finally time for myself and my family, and learned to accept from other people. I always had been the strong one (proud to give, refused to receive). All the hardship had been a blessing in disguise after all. There have been points of learning in the process, but most of all it was the fact of changing from a destructive course.
    No punishment, but logic. And being poor is not the worst thing in the world.
     
  8. JustinTime

    JustinTime Probationary

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    If anything, people like Donald Trump, Putin, Wall Street billionaires, and corrupt politicians across the world should be in line to be "humbled" before me.
    I've been nice to people all my life, helping others selfless-ly. Yet I am discriminated against, have no social group, can't get a decent job, investments don't work out, etc.... What did I do to deserve all this? Absolutely nothing. Yet, people I've mentioned above have abused their privilege their whole lives, making lives miserable for others while being takers and not givers, yet the world continues to bend over to accommodate their every need. I just don't accept that.

    A lot of the assumption that goes on in this forum is that somehow, having a bad life is somehow preferable to being dead. I beg to differ. Being dead is a release. I rather be dead and just be a soul floating around than to suffer in the physical realm. That is truly the worst thing ever.
     
  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Justin,

    For some reason, you seem to act like you are the only one who has had a challenging life around here. Believe me, you are not alone in this, as even a hint of what you have been told by others should tell you. As (and if) you come to know more about the persistent posters on this forum, you will find that what has already been posted by others is just the tip of the iceberg. But most of them, as I have also found, are fighters and overcomers. This does not mean that they have not had their times of mourning and ranting and despair. We all do. I do and have. At the moment one who I dearly love is in the hospital suffering and fighting Cancer. Is your plight worse than hers of anyone else here? I cannot know and you cannot know, but you should not assume that you are worse off than many others who are still fighting.

    However, I will acknowledge this, especially in the light of what I have already said above, just as you are probably not seeing pain worse than others have suffered, you are also entitled to rant, rave and scream at the universe . . . for a while. Just like the rest of us. However, what you are going to find at some point is that this is a process. We all go through the five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I have gone through these many times about many things, and one slips back and forth with one predominating usually. But I can remember feeling the way you do about life right now, though my particular temperament did not fixate so much on certain people or groups. I grew up in a fairly well-off family. My parents were depression kids who worked hard and made good. I thought I was smarter than them, had more education than them, and was certainly destined to do even better than them (more-or-less without even trying hard, which I really didn't do as much as I should have). I spent a long time in denial. I was just at the beginning of things, I was smart, everything was going to be OK and would work out in due course. Then anger. I can remember how angry I was at life (and sometimes others) about various hopes and dreams not coming true. These phases lasted a long time. I'm in my 60s now, and I still swing back and forth. I am in the acceptance phase most of the time about life, but swing sometimes in the last three, and occasionally even back to the very beginning. However, any way you look at it, I have been angry and still get just plain mad about it all from time-to-time.

    As I look at my start-up comments I realize that this post has been shifting as I have written it, but I'm not going to go back and revise the beginning. The comments I was aiming at you are true, but it would be incorrect to say that I always could say them or always felt that way. In some respects when I say these things to you I am remonstrating with my younger self, and in some respects I am remonstrating with my current self, as I sometimes swing back to these same angers and disappointments. All I can say is that despite the pain and disappointments, and a feeling that I am not really sure that I want to come back here again, I feel like it was somehow worthwhile to have gone through the things I have gone through and to have learned the things I have learned. That will probably not resonate with you at your age and stage of things, but there are others here who know what I mean. In any case, if you stick around (which I hope) instead of doing something stupid (which I definitely hope you won't), you will also find out what I mean. Also, you will find out like I and so many others have that the life of your disappointments is full of all kinds of wonderful things you were not really focused on or didn't really appreciate before. They can also be worth the pain, believe-it-or-not. I will also say this. Despite the fact that your posts are as prickly, angry and hard to read as any I have ever read on this board, I have never doubted that there was someone very worthwhile who was writing them.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  10. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Why do you think all those people need to be humbled before you Justin? Do you have knowledge of Gods' plan that no one else has? Trumps life lesson are probably very different to mine or yours. Who are we to say what he needs to learn? I've been challenged in my current life because of my dreams of a better world. That was something private and seemingly innocent that I had that has been completely challenged. It call into question my motivations, my ego, my everything. I didn't expect that. But I now understand why I lived the life I lived. Instead of pointing fingers at others and assuming that they have it easier than you look to your own self. Challenging yourself is a lot harder, but more rewarding, than challenging others.
     
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  11. Tinkerman

    Tinkerman Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Thank you S&S for a thoughtful post.

    Justin you are getting some good input here, I hope you are taking it to heart and perhaps learning from some of the wisdom.

    Blessings, ~Tman
     
  12. ArturSm

    ArturSm New Member

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    You should also consider if part of their karma could be, to be helped by others... You never know what happens after that.
     
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  13. Angie Brown

    Angie Brown Senior Registered

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    What of your karma in not helping, at least a bit, if it is your karma to do so and you refuse?
    What of your karma if you judge that ill fortune are the result of the karma of the unfortunate?
    What of your karma if you fail to help another at least a little when you can?

    Myself, naturally remembering some parts of a few pl's, i'm not so sure that 'karma' works the way you seem to believe or half believe. I don't think it is that cut and dried. However, if i'm wrong then the above applies anyway - that's if you wouldn't want to try and help others for the pure sake of easing their suffering in any case regardless of karma and maybe reward, which you may well want to do.

    I hope that helps :)
     
  14. magdalene le morvan

    magdalene le morvan New Member

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    I always give a bit of change to homeless people, I was a homeless beggar in this life for a bit and now Im not but could easily become again. One time I was asked for some money by a young lad in his twenties, I knew him and I had a really selfish feeling and said no even though I felt instantly bad about it and regretted it. A few months later I attended his funeral. Really tragic. I know that there was nothing I could have done but a chit chat and a couple of quid and a bit of kindness is nothing. Plus money given to charities rarely trickles down to these peoples and mostly ends up in fatcats pockets so I would prefer to give a small act of kindness directly to the individual. I don't think karma is like the way you say it is, although sometimes we can get a taste of our own medicine straight away. I don't think god punishes although it can feel like that sometimes especially if you have been brought up with the notion of heaven and hell. God teaches. I think this is a classroom. Justin you do seem to take some sort of pleasure in the suffering of others? where does that come from?
     
  15. Angie Brown

    Angie Brown Senior Registered

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    I have just begun reading a book by Pao Chang, 'Word Magic'. It's about the trickery of words, how language has been formulated to trick us into agreeing to things we would never ever agree to if we knew the words had been designed to agree to our children and selves being property, products, slaves, owned. It also goes into how our life force is used as a battery to give energy to those we would not give it to if we comprehended. There is a bit about it on the web and on youtube. I have long suspected something like it and I am hoping that as I progress with the book it will explain or give clues as to what reincarnation is really all about because I truly don't believe it is much if anything at all to do with 'karma'.

    Just something for others to also look into if you want to.
     
  16. MaggieB

    MaggieB New Member

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    I believe each and every soul seeking answers read every book out there getting more and more confused. Some lock onto one (book) and then go on a course in an attempt to convince the rest to read and learn that this one book says it all. We are here to learn, we each have a lesson and that is "soul growth" - our own. If we are touched by another souls event along the way, whether it is planned in advance or not - we have hopefully learned something from it. We could be actors in another's play or they in ours. I am not concerned about that. Even the homeless on the street may be there as part of our play. Did they choose that to experience what living like that is like? "Killing 2 birds with one stone" they give some of us the opportunity to make decisions about how we will interact with a person who is down and out. How did they get there? By choice coming out of a past life perhaps and in this one we have many Viet Nam War Vets who did not get recognized and treated for the PTSD many suffer from. That is a real disorder and I won't go into the cause and effect of that. As a single soul, I choose to stop to talk to a homeless person, bring along a sandwich, and an extra blanket. We all choose for ourselves according to what our inner being tells us. No one is right or wrong. Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  17. Graham76man

    Graham76man Senior Member

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    You don't come to this life to be punished. If someone is homeless, then they have either chosen to be homeless to experience the situation, which is not a concious decision on their part, but was made under advisement from the other side of life. Or they have had no choice in the matter. Since it was something that humans do to each other.
    There are children on the streets who need to escape from abusive parents. It's possible that these children souls thought they could do something about the relatives, or thought they won't be like that with me. "They loved me in a past life!" Faced with the truth they had no option to get out. If they live in a bible strong area, then the words honour your mother and father will be ringing in their ears. But how do you do that with sex abusive or aggressive relations?
    Some of the homeless people will be first timers, since the average number of lifetimes is down to four lives per person for everyone on the planet. They will have no karma issues to make them homeless.
     
  18. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    Where did you get the idea that we only have four lives per soul Graham76man? I remember five lives which means I've had at least six lives.
     
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  19. Graham76man

    Graham76man Senior Member

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    I said an AVERAGE of four lives. I have had 19, by the way more than you! But you you have to do that against the entire population of the earth.
    If you ever watched the Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy you can get the idea of how the numbers reduce down. The Guide says that the population of the Universe is Zero. This is because we know that not every planet has people on it. Therefore there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. As the Universe is infinite, then any finite number divided by infinity is as next to nothing as makes no odds. So the population is "0". Any people you meet from time to time are the products of a deranged imagination:D
     
  20. Jim78

    Jim78 Senior Registered

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    I doubt that very much Graham76man. I really doubt it.

    I've read The Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy, I have the TV show and the film but I'm forty now. I've been through too much to enjoy the wonders of such. What you said was irrelevant really. I would put good money on it that you watched The Young Ones?
     

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