What and who are you?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by John Tat, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I thought I'd dash off another quick post since I have a moment. I am very interested in the clarifications requested at the end of my last post, but unless those bring up some additional topics, I'm not otherwise sure that we have too much more to cover based on the ideas you have introduced so far. Of course, there may be some additional revelations or points you wish to bring in that you have not introduced to date, but I think we've pretty well covered the general body of ideas that have been conveyed to you so far.


    As I have previously opined, I think the information represents at least the beginnings of a very unique system of thought, though it is not one that I'm prepared to adopt myself. If additional information is conveyed to you in the future, I'd be interested. But for now, and aside from the clarifications requested in my last post, I think we have pretty well used up the topic. There are only the two of us talking now, and I'm beginning to feel like we're the last two people left in an empty auditorium. This wouldn't bother me if we had some new stuff to cover, but barring that I think we can go on to other topics on the board.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  2. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi SeaAndSky


    Regarding the clarification request on your post it's difficult. There is so much where would I start? It's best for you to ask for specific clarifications if you have any


    I feel I have to comment on your statement and I quote...


    "that these analogies are simple truisms for us as spirits whether we are we are incarnate or not"


    Where did that come from? Analogies are simple truths for us as spirits?????????? That is very naïve and uninformed and also somewhat insulting to everyone on this forum


    You need more substance to what you believe in. You obviously have a good basic understanding of what is going on. Because of that I strongly recommend you keep working at it. As your knowledge increases you will begin to have your own understandings and from that platform begin to build substance into your beliefs


    I hope this helps you


    Regards


    John Tat
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2015
  3. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    I'll come up with more specific questions for clarification purposes.


    In terms of "analogies" I did not say that all or any analogies that could be used were apt or illuminative. I said that the ones that I had been using in terms of a particular subject were apt and, for the most part, simple truisms. You may disagree. If you have other analogies that you think are more appropriate, I will be glad to consider them. Otherwise, I'll stick with my position on this one. We're talking about a very limited subject here--the basis for spiritual attraction and communication. I am using analogies that have been used in this field for at least 50-60 years. I know, because I have been considering books and other subject matter using these analogies to described spiritual attraction and communication that go back at least that far. Plus, I have found them to be true in my own life for as long as I have been considering these matters.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  4. tanguerra

    tanguerra Senior Registered

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    I wonder if everyone experiences themselves in a similar, but individual way? Just like our fingerprints and the pattern of our iris, each of us is an individual entity, and that's just the body.


    Perhaps there is single answer to this question. Perhaps there are as many answers to it as there are individuals. It's something I have wondered about since I was a child actually. What's it really like inside someone else's mind / skin. Is there experience similar to mine, or completely different?


    We developed language so we could talk about our thoughts, but it's easy sometimes to get tangled up in words, especially when talking about topics that our culture has not really got many good words for. Sanskrit probably has dozens of words for describing metaphysical concepts that don't exist in English.


    I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to communicate inner knowings to another who may be having a similar, but different experience.


    I saw this movie the other night and it really got me thinking about this idea, 'what are we, really? The sum of our memories? The DNA of our soul?.... Our thoughts? Our feelings?' It's a great little film if you can find a copy in the DVD shop. Worth a look.
     
  5. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Tanguerra


    You are right often there are are no words to describe what we


    know


    Before we try to work out who we are I believe we first have to understand is the real us the physical or the spiritual


    The following may not sit well with many but I give it for example and consideration only


    If you and I swapped our spirits/pure self's and souls who would you be tanguerra or John Tat


    Would tanguerra be alive and well and function as tanguerra in John Tat's physical body with all of its DNA and genetic properties. It's my opinion this has to be given serious thought


    not because it could ever happen but because the implications it has on reincarnation and who and what we really are


    Regards


    John Tat
     
  6. shadowsofmypast

    shadowsofmypast Senior Registered

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    My perspective I give off a female energy


    I think like a woman. I scared my friend she didn't know


    who I was, some people and other boards assume


    I am woman, I am not.


    I been a women in so many life times.


    my soul is of a female .


    I relate closely to my life in 20's.


    For most part I am that person in appearence


    and desires.
     
  7. spacecase0

    spacecase0 Senior Registered

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    I see myself as a conscious dot


    am surrounded with tools I can use (thoughts, emotions, personality, etc...)


    I can use the tools or change them as I want, can also get lost in them if I don't try,


    and am in a physical body that seems like a nifty interface for a conscious dot to control.


    like shadowsofmypast, I give off a female energy, and it does not match where I am currently,
     
  8. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi shadowsofmy past and spacecaseO


    I found your posts very interesting


    I ask the following for my clarification only


    Many on this forum see you both as spiritually genderless, is that how you see yourselves?


    Regards


    John Tat
     
  9. spacecase0

    spacecase0 Senior Registered

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    I actually have mixed data on the spirit having a gender,


    most of the people I have known don't appear to have a gender past what there physical body is,


    suspect that the real answer is somewhat messy,


    it might just be what energies that a spirit has preference for,


    or reincarnated as one gender for a long time so that the spirit has a hard time dealing with a body of the other gender,


    I have been out of my body a few times, but did not think to look and see if I had a gender then, but if I did have a gender at that point it was not enough to notice at the moment.


    whatever is causing this mismatch issue is not going away, I have tried to ignore it, meditations of all sorts, tried to change my internal energies, and none of it helps at all. it is like something poking me in the side all the time, and not matter where or how hard I squirm to get away, it is still there, and it is making a sore spot.


    the only reprieve I get is sometimes when dreaming I have a body that matches what my spirit, or brain, or where ever the mismatch is


    so if it is only the body that has a gender, then why would I be mismatched as another male while dreaming, and be just fine as pretty much any female while dreaming ?


    it could just be that nature gave me a female brain to go with a male body, nature does all kinds of messy things every once in awhile
     
  10. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi spacecaseO


    This thread has had an extensive debate about spiritual gender


    So it has been well covered. So there is no point gong over it again.In saying that as you are properly aware I believe the spirit does has gender. There are in my opinion plenty of reasons. What they all add up to is that without our spirits and physical body having the same gender there cannot be any form of stability for the physical entity. There may be constant conflict between each of them. That is my belief anyway from what my guides have told me


    As you know there is no comparison between physical and spiritual gender, they are completely different, none the less there is male and female


    If I'm right and there is spiritual gender then the mistakes are made during the reincarnation process when the spirits find themselves reincarnated into different gender physical body.


    Again if this right then the way forward may be simple


    You would have to remain true to who you really are. The reincarnating and continuing spiritual you. If I'm right then next time all will be brought back to how it always was meant to be. Keeping true to yourself during this incarnation would be important for next time. I'm not saying I'm right but going by what my guides communicate to me on spiritual gender it may not be far away


    Regards


    John Tat
     
  11. spacecase0

    spacecase0 Senior Registered

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    I think you are correct,


    but I tend to think that it was not a mistake that I ended up this way,


    I suspect that it was done to show me what I am not.


    if you don't have any contrast in life, how are you suppose to know for sure what you really are ?
     
  12. Sisley

    Sisley Impressionist artist

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    Who and What I Am?


    This is an actual chapter of my karmic thread. I traced that painter to his being one of a 4-pack of artists who were the spearheads of a major art movement. His art school buddies were Frédéric Bazille, Auguste Renoir, and Claude Monet.


    He died penniless of throat cancer, with a huge inventory of unsold canvases, and his lifelong dedication to Art seeming to have been a lost cause.


    Today, more than 900 of his canvases hang in galleries throughout the world, along sides the Monets and the Renoirs.


    https://www.facebook.com/notes/james-w-cook-multimedia-artist-artiste-multim%C3%A9dia/the-last-impression/108408899295653


    After laving lost my last job at 51, I said, "Fine! I'm going into the arts full time!" Call it a karmic redemption, call it whatever...
     
  13. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I would welcome clarifications


    Interesting thread; I've been absent for awhile and missed this thread until today.


    While reading the exchanges, I found myself wanting John to define where "ego" was in his scheme of things.


    Being even a bit older than either S&S or John, and having been all over the map in regards to religion, I found their childhood memories similar to mine and their differences in opinions as parts of my experiences. I would however be interested in finding if John thinks that believing in a "Source" the same thing as "Religion".
     
  14. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi KenJ


    An interesting question "Do I believe a source is the same as a religion"?


    No I don't Ken. For me there are two definitions of a religion. Firstly the belief in a super power that helps you through life and provides for you if you believe in him/her. A source is not that


    Secondly a religion is an organized collection of beliefs to give meaning to our existence. Then a source is not that either


    A source is just that nothing more.
     
  15. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Ken


    I forgot about you question about Ego


    We all have Ego. Ego is how we act to reality and it informs our brain about us as individuals. The more we learn and know the greater our ego becomes. When babies first begin to comprehend and learn that is the beginning of ego. Ego can be seen as a bad thing when in fact it's the opposite.


    The greater the knowledge and understanding someone has it appears to be the bad ego thing to others. When in fact its a direct reflection of their knowledge and what they know and understand


    Regards


    John Tat
     
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  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John:


    I think KenJ is aiming you towards Newton’s two books on the “life between lives” —when he mentions the “Source”. Newton is a person I have recommended to you before, and I am glad that KenJ has done so as well (assuming my assumption is correct). Some of what Newton found in his research sounds remarkably like things you have said, and others not much like what you have said at all. Newton mentions the “Source” in his second book, a constant presence and (as the name implies) the source of all that is. However, there is nothing in Newton’s writings that suggests that the Source meets the definitions you have given for a God or religion, nor did the Source appear to be worshiped. In fact, you may find it reassuring to know that the “Source” didn’t correspond to my sense of things in terms of a whole variety of particulars (so I am still trying to fit Newton’s findings into my own belief structures). Anyhow, I definitely think you should read his work. You may, in terms of certain things you have said, find an unexpected and highly respected ally among the current researchers in this field.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     
  17. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi SeaAndSKy


    Thanks for the advise I went to Amazon and there are five books of Newtons there is only one titled "life between lives". Which of these five should I buy?


    When you wrote "A Constant Presence" that is exactly what it is


    and makes it necessary for me to read these books


    It takes some doing to just have it there in the background which they insist over and over again that is how its meant to be, just in the background


    Regards


    John Tat
     
  18. KenJ

    KenJ Assistant Archivist and Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Thanks


    Thanks for the reply John. I was concerned that your protest against God was a protest against a belief of a "creator" rather than against the religious perversions.


    I must admit I was concerned about where your feelings were coming from when I read the earlier posts in this thread. It sounded to me that you were saying that you wanted others to help you understand something while at the same time suggesting that what you really wanted was confirmation in what you already believed. This led me to wonder where you saw "ego" as a part of your thinking since it sounded that your ego might have been the one writing some of the posts.


    S&S, although I read and like Newton I much prefer Weiss.


    Again, thank you both for responding. Like John, I have been shown things that led me to my present thinking about my next step/phase/whatever that I am to encounter. Unlike John, I have read probably about ninety books on the subject looking for verification or indications of a direction that might aid in my understanding and spiritual maturity.


    Each of us seem to be looking for clarification in this area, some in terms of structure while others seek understanding in other areas. I seem to be "stuck" in still trying to reconcile the structural characteristics - as was my first post on this forum.


    I wanted to add something about Ego that I read so I went off to find the book or find my thoughts of the book in the file I have with a brief description of it - I found neither so I'll just stumble along. What the book made obvious to me was that my ego was born slightly after I was, it knows that it will die when my body does. It is the part of me that holds fear, anger, worry, etc. (one of the fears being it's own demise). This puts another "player" in the game where my Soul-part is eternal whereas my body and ego are not.


    I don't feel qualified to define attributes and descriptions of each and every aspect of my makeup so I'll leave it at that for now. The only other relevant comment that I have for this thread's topics is that the "gender" part could be one bound characteristic of the soul that is multi-sided where one side is expressed with each incarnation. See- I told you I was still trying to determine structural aspects!
     
  19. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi KenJ


    Which book of Weiss's would you recommend


    It would be good to get another take on all of this.. This maybe is how it's meant to be. "This is how it's meant to be" is what they say to me about important matters. The trouble is, how it is now with some things and how its meant to be, is so different there is nothing I can do to alter those things to bring them back to how they are meant to be


    Regards


    John Tat
     
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  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi John,


    In terms of Newton, I was referencing Michael Newton, PhD and his two books: "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls".


    Overall, I really like both Dr. Weiss and Dr. Newton. However, they seem to have very different emphases to me.


    Dr. Weiss, in my experience, focuses on PLs from a therapeutic and life "meaning" aspect by looking at individuals' different PLs and how they have impacted the current life. So, I think he is mostly concerned with how understanding PLs can help us live with more meaning and understanding in the here and now.


    Newton focuses on the life between lives as the defining and most important thing to analyze, as our lives in this world are extensions of, or projects of, entities that have their most basic existence elsewhere and are seeking to advance through physical manifestation in and through multiple lifetimes. His first book shouldn't be skipped, but the second book provides the most interesting information about where the whole process is going. So, he's more of a "big" picture person rather than an individual "meaning" person (though, of course, our individual meaning is part of the big picture).


    They're both great guys to study and read. Once again, both are very scientifically minded, but Weiss to my mind is more therapeutically oriented, and more interested in the "human" side of things. Newton reminds me a bit more of his namesake, Isaac Newton: someone doing incredible mind expanding research into the universe of "souls".


    You can't really go wrong either way, and you probably should read both if you can. Still, in terms of the subject of this thread and your prior posts, I think Newton is where you should start.


    Cordially,


    S&S
     

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