Why Do So Many People Claim To Be Famous In A Past Life?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Sunniva, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    Since the very beginning, I always loved to read your articles about FPLs Karen *Thumbs up* (Looks like the smiley was removed)


    Let's also not forget that not all FPLs are "famous" like a superstar, and also, some of them who were famous as a superstar did not experience fame in life but after they died.
     
  2. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member Staff Member

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    I have no famous past lives that I remember but if I can be the girl next door why can't someone else have been the famous girl next door? Someone had to have that life.


    I don't feel anyone has the right to attack anyone for who they believe they might have been. It goes against everything this forum has been for many years.
     
  3. Totoro

    Totoro Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I've had people write me some nasty emails telling me I can't be who I say I am, despite some of those people taking part in religions where reincarnation is central to their faith.


    It's also despite the fact that I openly blog about the criteria you're listing here; that is my research, my "proof" ( the burden of proof is much higher with a FPL), how its affected my life etc.


    Its true.. Everyone at some point must become someone else. Famous or not, attention seekers don't need to be catered to and for anyone that truly seeks help and understanding, we should give it to them.
     
  4. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    @Totoro, burden of proof


    I for one find it very reassuring that a senior moderator on this site has an FPL and blogs about it openly. My hat's off to you for your courage.


    Re burden of proof: problem is, there can be no absolute proof, since we're talking about an immaterial phenomenon, and absolute proof, as I understand it, basically has to be material. Someone can always say your and my verifications have alternate immaterial explanations--archetypal energy, cryptomnesia, ancestral memory, subconscious remote viewing, coincidence, all of the above in combination or what-have-you--and you can't prove them wrong.


    This is in fact what drove me out of reincarnation inquiry for a while. I was raised totally materialist, skeptical and scientific, taught to distrust anything spiritual or intuitive, and old habits die hard. I got and wrote up tens of thousands of words of memories, even as part of me did not believe a word. What brought me back was relearning to trust and credit my inner knowing, and then getting strong and undeniable PL signals.


    Thus I have come to the conclusion that the only person who you must either convince or disabuse is yourself, so as to have integrity in self-knowledge, by which I mean a non-delusional, hence healthy, picture of yourself. There might be reasons that you want to convince other people, such as going public to promote reincarnation or becoming a member of a group that has a set standard of vigour, but these are choices, not necessities. (If you feel it is necessary to convince other people so as to convince yourself, you have a problem, ranging from self-doubt/insecurity, which I used to have myself and still do to some degree, to full-blown narcissism. Convincing other people doesn't prove a thing anyway. Having a desperate need for confirmation from others but realizing there's no such thing (unless it's someone else who was there also remembering, and one should approach that with great caution) used to drive me nuts.)


    Given this, I would say "burden of proof," or what I would call standard of evidential rigour, is a personal thing, and thus there is only a higher standard for an FPL if the claimant feels there is. I'm sure I do for myself, because one of my FPLs is more famous than the other, and it was relatively easy to be convinced of the less famous one. And yet, considering the care and effort I've seen people with perfectly average past lives put into their verifications, I don't know that there's a consensus that FPLs should have more evidence than non-F PLs, at least for convincing yourself. Part of what you are convincing yourself of is reincarnation itself, and that's going to be the same either way.


    My .02.
     
  5. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member Staff Member

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    The proof I found of my child's past life existence was that all of the names, addresses and jobs matched identically to what she told me. She was about ten at the time and had never been in the reference portion of the library where that information is kept.


    Her memories were also proven to be correct by the way buildings were set up inside even though there had been changes, the old parts of the building are above where she would have been able to see even if she had even been in that part of the building. Fact is, she had never even been in that building and has not been there to this day.
     
  6. Mama2HRB

    Mama2HRB Senior member Staff Member

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    Totoro,


    I am sorry you have received emails like that. It is one reason why people find it hard to share, what we research is something that leaves one open to ridicule.


    Thank you for your candid posts. I don't always comment but I do read them.
     
  7. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    @Totoro, mnrpj, Charles and any other FPL folks


    ...you might enjoy a half-tongue-in-cheek, half-serious thing I wrote about 10 years ago, then updated recently from my current, more positive perspective. 12 Reasons Why Remembering a Famous Past Life Sucks. (Link corrected!)


    UPDATE: And in fact, now you can read it in Spanish, too! Translated by Eowyn.
     
  8. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    Hello Everyone. I recommend reading Karen´s post about "12 reasons why FPLs suck", however, the link she provided is in a section of the forum that requires permissions (new members are required to post an introduction in order to get permissions, it's a standard procedure in MPL). Anyways, to make things easier, I made a copy of the thread for one of the public sections and removed all comments by MPL members since they posted them in a private section trusting that it would remain private.


    This is the link to read the article:


    Twelve Reasons an FPL Sucks : A Ten-Year Retrospective


    Have fun!
     
  9. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Oh right. Duh.


    Sorry about the confusion! And thanks Owl for making the move.
     
  10. Eevee

    Eevee Administrator/Archivist Staff Member

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    Hey Karen,


    By reading your analysis I can see what you have been through regarding those famous PL memories. Is it 10 years ago that you first started talking about them, or was it earlier?


    When you started sharing those memories, did you expect that you would get a lot of negative comments? You must have developed a thick skin over the years. I try to imagine what it must be like, you have all these memories, with very personal details (that unfortunately can't be historically verified), in all honesty you try to share them, and then get 'shot'; it must be difficult to stay on your feet, to stay confident in what you 'know' and feel to be true. And all this happens while you have to live your 'Now' life also.


    Why do you think all those detailed memories came to you in THIS life? I ask because I guess you had several lives between that one and the current one. Do you have a suspicion that the memory of him popped up in another Pl of yours also? After all, he was a very significant/strong/stubborn personality (I guess, don't know so much about him).


    A more personal question: I could read in your summary that your life-partner (who I remember was also very important for you in that PL) is no longer with you. I don't know how to ask exactly, but, was this confusing--loosing that PL bond? or other emotions? If too personal, don't answer, I don't want to be nosy. But, I mean, it must have been special, knowing that you were together in that PL, that must have given a special feeling, to be reunited again, and now that is gone.....? Was it not tempting to think: that part of the memories was not true....sort of denial phase?


    Ok, maybe I am rambling, but I am just writing down all the thoughts that came in my head after reading your analysis, and remembering (bits of) what you shared long ago.


    Anyway, thank you for sharing your review, and thank you, Owl, for making it available. [​IMG]
     
  11. Aelfgyva

    Aelfgyva Senior Member Staff Member

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    A Famous Object Past Life...


    Karen writes:


    #5. You know historically significant things that only you know, and to which no one will listen.*You feel like Kassandra -- knowing the truth, and being believed by no one. If they value their academic reputations, historians will have nothing to do with you. Or else they'll insist on continuing to present you in your past incarnation as they think you ought to have been, not as you actually were. Historians critical of you in your past life will write about you as they never would about someone still alive, because they'd be sued in an instant for libel -- but you can't sue them for libel.


    I have been following this post with interest over the last years, but because I don't remember a FPL, have never posted. But...I did have a past life with a very famous object, I was one of the embroiderers who worked on the Bayeux Tapestry. After reading Karen's post about the reasons why having a FPL Sucks, I can say that most of these points are also relevant for myself as well. Especially #5. What I “know” about this tapestry and what history claims to "know" do not match up, and when trying to contact the studied academicians to answer their so sought after questions, I received either nothing (those were the polite ones...) or was labeled as “crazy”. After many years, I finally found a young woman who was writing a theses about the tapestry, and she was interested in my stories. After I wrote my heart out...because FINALLY someone was listening...she wrote me back, thanked me for the lovely stories, but said without proof ( I mean, come on...proof?? We only have what is written by scholars and academicians today...) she could not use any of what I had written. So, like mentioned in #5...knowing the truth, but not being believed by anyone, applies for me too!
     
  12. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Answering Eevee Part 1


    Hey Eevee! Long time no e :)


    So many deep and thoughtful questions, I'm figuring that with the 4K character limit it's going to take more than one message to answer them all.


    Second thought... archivist...? Does that mean you have access to posts that have been deleted? Please PM me about that :)


    From the top --

    To be fair, I have not suffered every fate referred to in "12 Reasons." Some were suffered by other people, and some were merely paranoid possibilities.


    I had the first memory on Aug. 17, 2000, and have been talking about them with those who were interested ever since minus a hiatus from about 2008 to late 2011. My join date here is Oct. 2002, so I was certainly talking about them here from then.

    Well, something I've identified as a soul trait is innate optimism, so when I went into it I was actually almost stupidly optimistic re reactions. "12 Reasons" came about after some harsh experiences. But to be fair again, I haven't had that many. And most of them came at the other hands of other people claiming my more famous PL. (See Reason #8.)


    But I'll say again, from personal experience, that when you become sure of yourself in your knowledge of reincarnation and your own PLs, what naysayers say stops mattering. It might annoy or dismay you (as in "Why do they do that?") but it no longer shakes you at that deep level, stirring up self-doubts. They can't stir up self-doubts unless they're already there in you. So for anyone who is plagued by muggle attacks, however F or not F your PLs, that's where to look and what to work on.


    The secret for me was realizing and then working on the fact that my mother was not only a muggle, but an opinionated one who felt a duty to keep her kids on the straight and narrow. She believed that we come in a blank slate and therefore whatever we express is a reflection on whomever is raising us, i.e., in my case, her. So when I pointed at a picture in a kid's illustrated history book and said "That's me! I was that man!" and went on to draw reams and reams of drawings of realistically-gory pre-firearms stickman battles, she pulled out the big guns: ridicule, disgust, a clear message that I was crazy, destruction (all of my drawings were either thrown away or burned in the fireplace), corporal punishment and a death-threat in the form of being locked out of the house in winter. (An almost-three-year-old interprets that as a death threat.) Maybe this should be Reason #13.


    The result was growing up with severe self-esteem problems, though I don’t think that was her intent. Her clear imperative was "Forget!" -- not only my PLs and the Eternal Return (as I call the place between lives) but how she had punished me. I dutifully did, and have been plagued by forgetting and fragmentation and disappearance of my own records of what I know ever since, which is why I was asking about deleted posts. But through various healing methods I've dug up and recovered from the whole thing enough, for instance, to be merely slowed down and forced to sleep more hours when I post the autobio online rather than terrorized or completely stopped as before.


    After that, being smacked online is a picnic in the daisies. In another capacity, advocating for another controversial thing, I have been called stupid and crooked and generally evil online, by my real name. The way I look at it, if that hadn’t been happening, I wouldn’t have been doing my job right. It is fair and helpful to interpret the barbs from some people as a badge of honour.


    ...continued...
     
  13. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Interjection @Aelfgyva


    You worked on the Bayeux Tapestry?


    How totally cool is that!!


    What parts of it? How did you embroiderers divide up the work...different sections? Different colours of thread? Was it sketched out rough first? Did you get how the story was supposed to go in writing? Who contracted you to do it? Who designed it? Were you embroiderers men or women or a mix? And above all... what do you know that's different from the conventional history? If this is all in a post somewhere on this site, can you share the link?


    I'm sorry to hear you got shut out of the research when you have so much to contribute. I know what the problem is from how science reacts to information that doesn't fall within its (arbitrary!) parameters of what is scientific: everyone's worried about their careers and reputations. They see what happened, say, to Jacques Benveniste, and they're like "Whoa, I'm not sticking my neck out." Whether they believe you or not.


    I think the trick (in case you haven't already tried this) is to offer them information in the form of a hypothesis which is provable with extant data, and be okay with letting them claim the hypothesis as their idea. That way you can slip it in under the door but you have to be willing to get no credit.


    I have a friend who saw an underlying pattern in what she was studying for her grad thesis, and shared it with her prof. The guy jumped all over it, saying she hadn't proven it sufficiently, and pressured her to get out of the field. Then he went and gathered sufficient evidence and published, taking total credit for the idea, and it is now the conventional wisdom.


    Scientists will have you believe they're all Dr. Spock, ruled strictly by logic and rationality, but make no mistake: inside those white coats are all the human weaknesses, including venality, same as we are all plagued with.


    Anyway--I know the kudos is a few centuries late, but--awesome tapestry. Brava!! :jump:
     
  14. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Answering Eevee Part 2

    Yes, indeed. The other forum I'm on is full of dead Nazis. Whatever else you may say about the Hitler regime, they kept excellent records, and because it was only double-digits years ago, they're still there, and there are lots of photos to match details you get in memories to. So I get to see one dead Nazi after another remember, research and get enough iron-clad verifications that they'll use their PL names as their sigs and so forth. Then they'll go off to Munich or wherever in Germany and find out they know their way around town.


    And I am green with envy because my more famous PL happened 2,300 years ago. Virtually everything from that time that wasn't made of stone or metal is gone. Every place I lived or visited is a ruin, most of them just foundations, many still underground (and archaeology done well, as they do it these days, takes forever.) I went to Greece in 2008 and tried to find my way around the foundations of my hometown... from the PL perspective it's like "What unthinkable disaster happened here... what kind of destruction takes every building down to the foundations plus completely erases everything that's not stone or metal?" It was depressing.


    As for historic records, it's a broken telephone line. Twenty books were written by eyewitnesses, and they are all lost; we only know they existed from selected quotes. Of the five primary literary sources that have been preserved, three drew majorly from one writer who was basically a gossip columnist of the time and known to be unreliable... but much of the modern scholarship is based on his account...! At least the primary sources blessedly contradict each other so there's at least evidence that some of them are just plain wrong.


    So, yes, this made for a challenge in convincing myself it was real. (Reason #1 Remembering an Ancient FPL Sucks.) What did it was more subtle. At some point soon I'll write a "KarenF's FPL cred" post that gives the highlights. One thing that was crucial was an awesome memory from this life, that I got with such certainty I knew it was real, as real as knowing my address and phone number from the time. It was of being a small child with my mind still half in the Eternal Return, and what that felt like: I was just passing through this place so it was fine if things were a little crazy, I remembered all my PLs like a giant tapestry, everything was bright, and there was this almost indescribably strong sense of ultimate safety and security and joy. Words cannot start to do it justice. I remembered this in January and it changed my life. Something I never thought of until now as I write: I think remembering the Eternal Return at some level throughout my life, and maybe previous ones, is the source of my innate optimism.

    I edged near burnout in 2011, so I have learned what my limits are and to listen to my body. And my house is a mess cover face :)


    ...continued....
     
  15. Aelfgyva

    Aelfgyva Senior Member Staff Member

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    Wow! I may have to write a book...!!!


    Hi Karen...thank-you for all your questions....Wow...! I have talked about my working on the tapestry here in forum, but have not gone into the detail that I have in my private journals...I may have to write a book...fiction of course...! ;) If you look on my profile page you will see all of the threads that I have stared (2 or 3...not too many...) and there I have talked a bit about them...I have also talked about my memories in other threads...they are all available on my profile page.
     
  16. Eevee

    Eevee Administrator/Archivist Staff Member

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    Hi Karen,

    That is what resonates with me, when you suddenly KNOW it, with such overwhelming certainty that it gives you the strength and the peace of mind to cast away the doubts that often try to sneak in.


    As for the historical things you know, but can't proof, I have a little example of my own. I have memories of being a roman boy, later living on the countryside, where we had cattle. I knew we didn't drink milk, only used it for cheese etc.


    This was confirmed in a book I read.


    Later I was on a history forum, saying, I read in this book (naming it) that romans didn't drink milk, but etc., and got a conversation going. Then I replied again, and said: 'That is why they used only roman slaves to herd their cattle, because the barbarian slaves would drink the milk from their cattle'. Immediatly I got replies: where is that in the book? what page number, etc.


    I sneaked out of that forum, because, oh my, that was something I didn't know from the book, but from my memories....OMG
     
  17. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    @Aelfgyva: yup, you have to write a book


    Absolutely fascinating... having to do the work in a crypt...? Breaking the ice off the drinking water so your hands got so cold you couldn't feel the needle...? And the politics, of course everyone knows and no one talks about it... Learning the story behind an iconic historic piece of artwork is enthralling.
     
  18. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    You should write a book anyway! I teach my students about the tapestry every year. To plug in some "what if's.." would be awesome from my point of view.


    One of my REAL LIFE ancestors had it made.....mmmm or was part of it some how. Can't remember. My father is into researching our family history. I'll ask him who and what his involvement was.

    Makes me think of the saying "Only six degrees of separation between people," and wondering if that applies between life times.


    Nice to see you back Karen :)
     
  19. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    Answering Eevee Part 3

    Can't answer this next set of questions without naming names...


    Leaving life as Alexander I swore I would remember. (It is something of a secret, though not on this forum, that ancient Greeks believed in reincarnation.) Why this life, 2,300 years later? I think it’s either that as a soul I came to a point of readiness, or that there are emotional healing modalities available in this era that never were before that I used to expedite getting to the point of readiness. Or both. I once did an inventory of methods I’ve used and determined that all but one of them arose in the 20th Century, and the older one arose in the 18th/19th.

    Heh, oh yeah, both those lives. As Alexander it was “nothing and no one will stop me” and as Thomas More it was “I won’t change my mind even if you torture and kill me.” My this-life (and humbler) version is that I have no quit in me for my mission now—healing and integrating myself to wholeness, including remembering. I didn’t even stop during my reincarnation hiatus, just took other approaches, excellent ones, which ended up sending me back to it.


    The first question—a little background. Forbidden to frame my violent pre-firearms creative output as anything but fantasy by my mother, I went on to become a fantasy novelist. I only seemed to have one story in me, however, that I started as a young teen and stuck to, on and off, for about 40 years. It’s about a warrior-king type who conquers a great empire, never loses a battle, is bi and has multiple lovers in a kind of crazy personal life, loses his father to assassination by knife, becomes head of state at the age of 20, is a brilliant strategist and warrior, is very charismatic and deeply loved by his warriors, thinks outside the box, purposely spreads culture and technology, comes to be worshipped as a God by some, is very generous but at the same time can be wicked ruthless, gets in trouble with some of his own people for taking on the ways of the conquered empire too much, and dies young. Aside from that, he doesn’t resemble Alexander in the slightest.


    So once I was into PLs and noticing the parallels, I thought: if there are Alexander parallels in fiction I wrote in this life, could there be in fiction I wrote in a life in between? With shaking hands, not sure whether I was more afraid of not finding them or finding them, I opened an old copy of Utopia, which I had never read in this life.


    They’re subtle—Alexander is never mentioned by name, for instance—but they are there and have the feel of something subconscious. If you want to see this for yourself, bone up on Alexander history, for which I recommend Robin Lane Fox’s Alexander the Great. I thought it was the most accurate even before I learned to my delight it was informed by PL memory... Lane Fox said as much in a column in the Sunday Times, not online, alas, around the same time the Oliver Stone movie came out. He consulted on the movie, btw, and took as his only pay the opportunity to take an extra role as a cavalier.


    Then crack Utopia yourself. I don’t even know how many Alexander traces there are, because I freaked out so much I never finished the job... I should try again now. The one that jumped out the most at me is that Utopia, the original utopian society, is a hybrid of Greek and Persian culture. Only one person ever attempted to create that in real life... I guess I wanted to do in imagination what I couldn’t in the flesh. What I remember about writing Utopia was that it started out as pure satire, but then grabbed me and grew into something more as I was writing, and I just let that happen, same as I do writing in this life.


    ...continued...
     
  20. KarenF

    KarenF Senior Registered

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    @Deborah, nice to be back


    There you go, Aelfgyva -- a teacher who does value your contribution ;)
     

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