Why does there seem to be a "time limit" on PLM's?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Jack E, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Jack E

    Jack E Senior Member

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    I guess the difference is that I see the purpose of future PLM researchers and scientists as bringing a permanent golden era upon the world, one of complete and concrete knowledge of the afterlife, not as vindicators of already held beliefs. Utopia, to me, is a time when everything we once thought we knew about what happens when we die has been eradicated and replaced with discovered truths, no more mysterious than those of the physical world. Those who usher in that truth can be as iconoclastic as they need to be to ensconce it in the public conscience. By all accounts, that factual reality of the afterlife appears to involve reincarnation, and the tales told by those who've been there and come back are our only window into the nature of that reality, so their words will guide us toward that destiny. There seems to be a lot of sentiment here that these things are meant to remain obscure to the broader world, or that our lack of knowledge of the mechanisms of life and death is good, but as I see it, the endgame is to know, to reveal all, once and forever, and not to be denied by will of God or man.
     
  2. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    I have said many times on the forum that from my experiences and knowledge about all of this ...most of what is out there and believed about all of this comes from the imaginations of man and over many generation's these things that came from the imaginations of man have developed/turned into some type of truths that could not be more wrong
    I mostly have memories... I do know who some of the physical entities were my spiritual self occupied but they have no relevance to what is going on with me...Some of my memories are fleeting such as...I have a memory of being an infant child... all I wanted to do was talk and connect with those around me.. But I could not because the infant physical body would not allow me to ... I have plenty of these fleeting memories that mean very little.. I also have others that are not fleeting
    I believe its important for Jack E to understand that through my meditations when I connected with my spiritual self I sometimes see new memories that were not know to me before,, So any belief that previous incarnation memories are somehow store in a new physical brain before birth is incorrect.. I can also say with complete confidence that if any machine could look at my spiritual self's previews incarnation memories that I now have they would have the exact same patterns as any other memory
    Its also important to understand that the mechanisms used to record and store physical memory are very different to the mechanisms used to record an store spiritual memory.. that in itself creates a huge problem from a scientific standpoint
    I could go and on for pages but I cannot be bothered that is enough
     
  3. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    I would like to ask Jack E a question......what is memory what are memories and what triggers our memories why do we remember them how do we remember them this is basic knowledge kindergarten stuff in the overall of what is going on
     
  4. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You're an interesting guy :):) Maybe you are right in the broadest perspective. Maybe one day we'll be able to 'know' what happens on both sides of the veil.
    But, you know what the problem is? You try to discover to understand the hardware and the operating systems of Life.
    The people on this forum are dealing with the software of Life. We try to understand the rules of our personal games.

    These are two different levels that are not to be mixed or confused. It's different coding although it is supposed to work together in the Big System.

    And maybe, maybe you're looking in the wrong direction with your honest intentions. If you want to understand the operating system of a computer, would you release statistics on the video games that people play?

    Why do we play videogames? We are not forced to play, we just want to enjoy ourselves. We love to lose ourselves in them, identifying ourselves with our character interacting with other online players and shut off the outside world. :p

    A lot of gamers know how to program as well. But when they are playing, they want the full experience of being in their game and nothing else.

    This is what's happening in our Earthly lives as well. A lot of us Souls (maybe all of us) know how to program Life on a high soul level but while being human we forget because we came to play our game to the extreme.

    I came to these conclusions by deduction and by a mystical experience in which my own role was explained to me by the Higher Self of a friend. I came to understand that I belong to a group of Creator Souls (programmers) and that living my life (lives) was just out of curiosity of how things work out in this world. The reason why I have a partial awareness of this process is that my feedback on Life instantly feeds the Higher Souls on the information. There is no separation between creating and creation, it goes on and on and on in the Moment.
    So now that I know this, I decided to use my on/off button. Sometimes it's 'off' and I just live my life without much higher thoughts, just enjoying Life. Sometimes it's 'on' and I experience the flowing energies going up and down to my Higher Self and probably other Higher Selfs as well.
     
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  5. Jack E

    Jack E Senior Member

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    I'll be happy to answer your questions, John.

    What is memory? What are memories? Memory is how neurons encode and store information for us to later be able to recall. The purpose of memory, of course, is that our ancestors evolved it because it is advantageous for survival; being able to remember where to find food or hide from a predator is generally a good idea. The hippocampus is the primary part of the brain active in memory; once a memory is encoded, which occurs whenever we pay attention to something unless some impairment is in play, it then spends time in a "consolidation" phase. No one really knows how long consolidation lasts, estimates range from days to months based on various data and measures. However, at all times during this phase, the memory is subject to permanent erasure, if it is deemed useless or expendable by the brain; most mundane events meet this fate, as there is only so much available space, so it is necessary to be selective. Once a memory is fully consolidated, it is mostly safe from loss barring brain damage, and is routed to various areas of the cerebral cortex depending on the modality; visual memories to the visual cortex, memories of thoughts to the prefrontal cortex, etc. Associations and pathways form between these brain areas to link the different aspects of one memory, so that when one is recalled, it usually triggers the whole experience.

    Now, bringing PLM theory into the equation, it seems that at some unknown point in consolidation or permanent storage, at least some important memories are backed up in an immaterial medium that is indestructible and independent of the brain. Therefore, the death of the brain does not seem to effect them, and they can be carried seamlessly into a new brain and body. It is hard to comprehend the exact process that leads to this, but given the evidence, I cannot deny the reality of such a nonphysical memory bank. I think it's easy to compare to a computer; when you die, all your data is erased, like a computer's is when its hard drive breaks, but if you back up your computer's data to an external repository before that happens, you can retrieve it all again when you buy a new hard drive. For us, this immaterial backup is what we could call our soul. In reincarnation, the soul, when entering a new body, only has to implant its memories of the PL into the brain, and they are then consciously accessible in the new life, giving us what we observe in PLM children.

    What triggers memories? Why/how do we remember them? One way for us to recall something is to do so voluntarily, if it is prominently accessible; for example, when needing to remember where one left a credit card, or how to spell a word in a spelling bee, we willfully and effortfully recall the information. The neural mechanisms of free will are not known, and many neuroscientists claim there is no free will at all, and all our actions are externally caused in some way; I am not one of those. Other methods of memory recall are cued, and the majority of child PLM cases begin this way. Most cues that trigger memories simply involve encountering a stimulus that serves as a reminder of a prior experience, and these reminders have the power to trigger anything from a very recent memory, to something you may not have recalled in many years, and forgot you even still remembered by that point. The great neuroscientist Wilder Penfield, a very big believer in reminders, hypothesized that our memory bank is in fact capacious enough to store every single relevant or unique event we've ever experienced, except for those in infancy, and if we encounter just the right reminder, any of these experiences can be spontaneously recalled. He came to this conclusion when he hooked up electrodes to the cortices of epileptic patients, trying to diagnose the location of the tissue causing their epilepsy. Sometimes, when Penfield sent a small charge through, the patient would report recalling a random, specific memory, often one so obscure that they had completely forgotten they had it. This led Penfield to infer that if such random, obscure memories persist so permanently, it is likely that all relevant events are stored, and that a precise reminder could produce the same effect as his electrodes did. Ever since his work, it has been agreed that our memory storage capacity is much greater than we once thought.

    In the context of PLM's, most initial recall is cued. Since our brain prioritizes more salient and immediate information to be more easily recalled, and since it's been a few years since the child reincarnated, the PL memories are not usually at the front of the mind until they are externally triggered. That is not to say this is always the case; sometimes kids just start talking about PLM's as soon as they have the ability, and for no discernible reason other than to express themselves. Once the memories are at the forefront, however, they appear to behave like any other memory; the child almost always perceives an unbroken continuity between the memories of the present and previous lives, and they find nothing remarkable about them in most cases. Given these patterns, it's incredibly hard to deny that PLM's stem from the same source and feel the same to the child as any ordinary memory, and using neuroimaging to demonstrate they are of the same substance would only seal the deal. This is where I believe modern science and PLM theory intersect cleanly. Of course, if our current science is as valid as we hold it to be, everything that exists and is true ought to connect with it, and reincarnation is no exception to that.

    tl;dr - Memory is the neurological process of encoding, consolidation, storage, and recollection, and primarily involves the hippocampus in the first two stages and the cerebral cortex in the last two. PLM's seem to involve some sort of subsequent backup to a nonphysical storage medium that persists beyond death, that being the soul.
    Memories can be recalled voluntarily or by triggers, which usually consist of well-placed reminders that can spontaneously trigger even very obscure memories, and direct neuronal stimulation has also been proven to do the trick the same way. PLM's are mostly cued, but once recalled initially they can be voluntarily invoked like any other memory.

    For once, I avoided saying anything contentious in this post!
     
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  6. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Jack E your post was great.. very scientific but great...yours comes from a scientific background mine mostly comes from what I have learnt/experienced myself ... I only went to 10th grade at school and have a reading disability that will not allow me to read and understand what I read at a level that would allow me to educated myself to a higher level For example your last post I went over it for half an hour and understood enough to get the gist of what you were talking about...That is why my beliefs and knowledge hardly ever aligns with what is out there
    I have many doubts about the scientific approach to memory... OK you can set up your machines and do all the measurements but do those measurements tell you the real story of how it all works and happens? Apart from repetitive memory I don't think we have much memory at all... it is all very much blown out of all proportion Also memory is very flawed and in most cases is not a reliable e source of what happened. what we experience and we saw... Memories are the physical entities perceptions of what happened ... that's all they are.. not very scientific at all...again I could go on but I won't

    All The Best
     
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  7. Mary H Kretzmann

    Mary H Kretzmann New Member

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    Hi... The ancient teachings of India state that the time in the astral world is determined by the laws of karma in various ways. An advanced soul may choose to stay in the astral world for our equivalent of centuries. A soul who dies young, perhaps in a traumatic death, may feel "cheated" and will often choose to reincarnate quickly - to sort of pick up where they left off. These are generalizations. Paramhansa Yogananda said that souls are drawn into families by bonds of love or bonds of hate. Think about it - if you hate a person who has wronged you, they are on your mind even more than those you love. That creates a "magnet" of sorts to be drawn back together and learn the lessons needed.

    I guess links are not allowed? Anyway - more can be learned from searching this chapter of the Autobiography of a Yogi: "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar "— Ananda
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  8. fireflydancing

    fireflydancing just a fly in the sky Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hey Jack, it seems your time on this forum was not wasted. This is an interesting synthesis of several discussions here on the board.

    John, you are right. Our memories simply need interpretation, just to create order in the chaos of 'facts'.
     
  9. DearlittleMaria

    DearlittleMaria Active Member

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    I know for me personally I died in 1918 but I came back in 1999. I think the wait period depends more on you than anything, if it is safe for you to return for example. I returned 100 years exactly since I was last born but 81 years after I died. I believe that somehow my spirit or whatever higher power there is did not believe that returning sooner would be safe because of the violence.
     

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